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Karma Points - Full

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Australia and New Zealand
Published
15 January 2005
Last activity
18 January 2005
Original author
hippy
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28
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  1. If it was an 8-10am sprint training session, why was I rolling home at 4pm?

    I'd finally managed to wake early enough to arrive on time for the aboc
    session at Blackburn's velodrome and was ever so happy to walk outside..
    into the rain! I love Melbourne's SUMMER weather! I didn't get up this
    damn early for nothing though, so continued on to Blackburn.
    It seems quite a few other riders appreciate Melbourne's weather as we
    had one of the larger groups that I've seen in attendance.

    We had a good session with all those cool drills that I forget how to do
    every week. Basically sprint tactics you would use in a race. Leadout
    sprints, 2 vs. 1, 2 vs. 2, etc.
    To even up the different rider abilities, restricted gearing is applied (pick
    a cog, any cog). Spinning like a maniac until your heart explodes is a
    common activity (170+ rpm/190+ HR anyone?).
    After today's session, I think I'm getting the hang of counting to
    three - just a few more months and I'll be perfect! Really guys! 😄

    Unusually we hung around afterwards, some of us until the State
    Pursuit Titles started.. and then stopped due to rain and then two
    hours later started again..
    One of us was even silly enough to volunteer to be a "holder" for the
    riders.
    "Volunteer" in this case means I wasn't quick enough running away
    and feel too guilty saying no when asked for help by the club. So I
    spent the day learning how many ways to mess up the job of holding
    riders for standing starts!
    I also got to chat with a cool bloke - Kevin Atkins(?) - a race official
    during the day. He was choc-o-block with race knowledge and knew
    bloody everyone!! Funny bugger too 🙂
    At 4pm I was busting for a [censored] (but dehydrated - love the combo!),
    hungry and needed to get that load of washing out of the machine
    and the cat out of the house!

    I'd racked up a full tank of Karma by then anyway. It was now bail time!

    How long did you stay warwych? I half expected you to be falling
    off the seat asleep! That must've been you in endurance mode rather
    than sprint mode.. 🙂

    For those about to tattoo:

    Jamie Staff's tattoo - the one I was talking about:
    cyclingnews.comWTC04

    Lance Tattoo:
    cyclingnews.comsigtat.shtml

    I need bigger (purple) goatee!!
    cyclingnews.comWTC04

    Now to swap my holy tyres...

  2. hippy said:

    If it was an 8-10am sprint training session, why was I rolling home at 4pm?

    I'd finally managed to wake early enough to arrive on time for the aboc
    session at Blackburn's velodrome and was ever so happy to walk outside..
    into the rain! I love Melbourne's SUMMER weather! I didn't get up this
    damn early for nothing though, so continued on to Blackburn.
    It seems quite a few other riders appreciate Melbourne's weather as we
    had one of the larger groups that I've seen in attendance.

    We had a good session with all those cool drills that I forget how to do
    every week. Basically sprint tactics you would use in a race. Leadout
    sprints, 2 vs. 1, 2 vs. 2, etc.
    To even up the different rider abilities, restricted gearing is applied (pick
    a cog, any cog). Spinning like a maniac until your heart explodes is a
    common activity (170+ rpm/190+ HR anyone?).
    After today's session, I think I'm getting the hang of counting to
    three - just a few more months and I'll be perfect! Really guys! 😄

    that restricted gearing sucks!

    all together now... "One, two... whatya mean 4? 😕 😠 "

    hippy said:

    Unusually we hung around afterwards, some of us until the State
    Pursuit Titles started..

    For those about to tattoo:

    Jamie Staff's tattoo - the one I was talking about:
    cyclingnews.comWTC04

    Lance Tattoo:
    cyclingnews.comsigtat.shtml

    I need bigger (purple) goatee!!
    cyclingnews.comWTC04

    Now to swap my holy tyres...

    The pursuit stuff was interesting. Kept saying to 'MissMarsBar' "Jeez, it aint that entertainin" and then unable to take my eyes off it! 🙄

    Some beautiful bikes there too.

    So, Cmn on Geoff. How did you go?

    And as for the tatt, I have tried to make that one out before on telly and live but its always just a blur 😄

  3. hippy said:

    If it was an 8-10am sprint training session, why was I rolling home at
    4pm?

    Was that at Blackburn? Is it a regular session? Now I'm glad I slept in,
    I had intended to go down to Blackburn for some interval training,
    didn't think anyone would be on the track at that time.

    DaveB

  4. flyingdutch said:


    The pursuit stuff was interesting. Kept saying to 'MissMarsBar' "Jeez, it
    aint that entertainin" and then unable to take my eyes off it! 🙄

    I don't really find the TT's and pursuits interesting to watch. There has to
    be some kind of leaderboard and lap timer (like at the Worlds) so you can follow rider times as they go. Would be much more interesting. Personally,
    I prefer the scratch races, eliminations, match sprints and of course the
    Madison 🙂

    Perhaps if we competed in pursuit and TT's we'd be more interested?

    hippy

  5. DaveB said:


    Quoted message said:

    hippy wrote:
    If it was an 8-10am sprint training session, why was I rolling home at
    4pm?

    Was that at Blackburn? Is it a regular session? Now I'm glad I slept in,
    I had intended to go down to Blackburn for some interval training,
    didn't think anyone would be on the track at that time.

    Sleep in. 8-10am is booked exclusively for the use of aboc. Dunno
    about any other days at that time though.

    hippy

  6. "flyingdutch" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    that restricted gearing sucks!

    It looked like you were on some pretty small gears out there. I saw a
    couple of your efforts whilst I getting all my stuff set up for what turned
    out to be a very long day thanks to the "just enough to get the track wet"
    rain showers.

    Quoted message said:

    The pursuit stuff was interesting. Kept saying to 'MissMarsBar' "Jeez,
    it aint that entertainin" and then unable to take my eyes off it!

    Unable to take tour eyes off it!!! The change in attitude, was that by any
    chance when the women in skin suits hit the track???
    Just think of Hippy and the position of trust that was bestowed no him when
    he was doing the holding.

    Individual Pursuit is something that's hard to fully appreciate unless
    you've actually done it. On a bike, it's probably the hardest thing you
    could ever do. For the rider the race starts well before you step foot on
    the track. Aside from the training, it starts with the equipment, which has
    to be perfectly prepared and adjusted. You have gearing decisions to make
    based on the track conditions (humidity, warmth of air and track surface
    etc) that will exist at the time of your ride. Then there's the personal
    preparation to ensure that you personally are physically and mentally
    prepared for the ride. Prior to the gun going off you are in the hands of
    the officials. Your holder (in the absence of starting gates) is critical
    to you getting a good start (A barefooted Hippy had this really important
    task for most of the day). Once you are actually moving on the track it's
    just you and the person who is calling your schedule (usually your coach).
    Your job is to start as straight and smoothly as you can and get the gear up
    to speed as quickly as you can with out blowing up the legs. Once you hit
    the aero position you then need to concentrate on pedalling as smoothly and
    efficiently as possible as well as keeping the bike on the optimal racing
    line. Every lap you are kept up to date on how you are riding as compared
    to your pre-determined schedule. If you are down on schedule then you have
    to carefully lift the pace in such a manner it does not cause you to crack
    or if you are up on schedule you need to be careful that you have enough in
    the legs to get you to the end. Physically it's a very fine line you are
    riding. There is NOWHERE to hide when things go bad. Also remember that
    this is only the qualifying round and if your time is good enough to put you
    in the medal rounds then you have to go through this all over again. The
    main difference this time is you are riding directly against the other
    person. The role of the schedule caller/coach changes slightly from the
    previous one. Since time is now irrelevant they now call the distance you
    are up or down by (usually by standing in front or behind the finish line by
    the distance you are ahead or behind by). As the rider, you need to be calm
    and in control because, just as before, you need to ensure you do not make
    sudden changes to your speed that may lead to blowing the legs. This race
    is pure pain in varying degrees from start to finish.

    For the casual bystander it's definately good to have times available to
    make things interesting especially during the qualifying. But once the medal
    rounds start it's not about the times on the clock it's about who crosses
    the line first at the end of the race.

    Quoted message said:

    Some beautiful bikes there too.

    Did you have any particular favourites?

    Quoted message said:


    So, Cmn on Geoff. How did you go?

    I qualified in 5th place (MMAS2 Category) so I just missed out on the medal
    round. My unofficial time was 4m22s (3000m) which considering the
    conditions (Outdoor track with a cool surface, High humidity overcast and
    slight breeze in the face on the main straight) I was pretty happy with.
    From what I could ascertain all but two of the other times where in close
    proximity of my time. Funnily enough those 2 riders with the faster times
    didn't ride the the 10km scratch race the night before at Brunswick. In past
    years these two events have not been held on consecutive days. It just begs
    the question "What if?"

    Diverging slightly: The Vic Keirin Championship Final at Brunswick on
    Friday night was nothing less than spectacular. It's a real pity no one
    caught it on video. :-( It was really exciting stuff to watch.

    Anyway next year we will be back inside on the boards at soon to be
    completed "Darebin International Sports Complex" (DISC). Normally State
    Titles are held indoor at Vodafone Arena (VA) in Feb, but this year due to
    the UCI moving the Worlds to March the Aus Titles had to move forward a
    month to Feb and States had to move to Jan. Unfortunately with DISC not
    being complete and the Aus Open Tennis using VA there was no other option
    but to hold the State Titles outside.

    The great thing about having DISC (as opposed to VA, a multi purpose venue,
    which is only occasionally available) is that track racing in Melbourne can
    now continue through the winter months. I can't wait.

    Geoff

  7. "hippy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Unusually we hung around afterwards, some of us until the State
    Pursuit Titles started.. and then stopped due to rain and then two
    hours later started again..

    One of the hassles of outdoor tracks. Rain forced the cancellation last
    race of the previous nights racing at Brunswick.

    Quoted message said:

    One of us was even silly enough to volunteer to be a "holder" for the
    riders.
    "Volunteer" in this case means I wasn't quick enough running away
    and feel too guilty saying no when asked for help by the club.
    So I spent the day learning how many ways to mess up the job of holding
    riders for standing starts!

    From what I saw when you were at the clubhouse bend you had it pretty well
    mastered. It was usually the riders that were stuffing it up. Do you
    remember the U19 girl that had her schedule written on her left arm and when
    the gun went of took her right hand off the bars to start the stopwatch on
    her left wrist nearly loosing it falling off Real bad form there. At that
    level she should have organised someone to call the schedule. Can't
    remember if it was the same girl but there was also one girl that never hit
    the aero bars for the entire ride!!! Why bolt them on if your not going to
    use them???. There was one of the senior women who rolled backwards on the
    gun and came really close to getting your toes. I don't know if you could
    hear us from where you were but the four of us watching were ready feel your
    pain.

    Quoted message said:


    I'd racked up a full tank of Karma by then anyway. It was now bail
    time!

    Agreed you did more than your share of volunteering for the day.

    Geoff

  8. hippy said:

    If it was an 8-10am sprint training session, why was I rolling home at 4pm?

    I'd finally managed to wake early enough to arrive on time for the aboc
    session at Blackburn's velodrome and was ever so happy to walk outside..
    into the rain! I love Melbourne's SUMMER weather! I didn't get up this
    damn early for nothing though, so continued on to Blackburn.
    It seems quite a few other riders appreciate Melbourne's weather as we
    had one of the larger groups that I've seen in attendance.

    We had a good session with all those cool drills that I forget how to do
    every week. Basically sprint tactics you would use in a race. Leadout
    sprints, 2 vs. 1, 2 vs. 2, etc.
    To even up the different rider abilities, restricted gearing is applied (pick
    a cog, any cog). Spinning like a maniac until your heart explodes is a
    common activity (170+ rpm/190+ HR anyone?).
    After today's session, I think I'm getting the hang of counting to
    three - just a few more months and I'll be perfect! Really guys! 😄

    Unusually we hung around afterwards, some of us until the State
    Pursuit Titles started.. and then stopped due to rain and then two
    hours later started again..
    One of us was even silly enough to volunteer to be a "holder" for the
    riders.
    "Volunteer" in this case means I wasn't quick enough running away
    and feel too guilty saying no when asked for help by the club. So I
    spent the day learning how many ways to mess up the job of holding
    riders for standing starts!
    I also got to chat with a cool bloke - Kevin Atkins(?) - a race official
    during the day. He was choc-o-block with race knowledge and knew
    bloody everyone!! Funny bugger too 🙂
    At 4pm I was busting for a [censored] (but dehydrated - love the combo!),
    hungry and needed to get that load of washing out of the machine
    and the cat out of the house!

    I'd racked up a full tank of Karma by then anyway. It was now bail time!

    How long did you stay warwych? I half expected you to be falling
    off the seat asleep! That must've been you in endurance mode rather
    than sprint mode.. 🙂

    For those about to tattoo:

    Jamie Staff's tattoo - the one I was talking about:
    cyclingnews.comWTC04

    Lance Tattoo:
    cyclingnews.comsigtat.shtml

    I need bigger (purple) goatee!!
    cyclingnews.comWTC04

    Now to swap my holy tyres...

    I stayed til just after you left Hipstar - sorry I didnt get to say goodbye 🙁 . I was up near the clubhouse and waved at you but you were too busy eyeing off some icecream, I mean bikes. I was chatting to my new State Champ Club Team Pursuit team mate WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH WTF did I do there saying yes to that!!?? HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA (thats hysterical laughter guys!!) Umm.. any tips on how to ride a track bike???????? <insert more hysterical laughter>

    It's been a long time since I've been to a track meet and how handy!! I get off the track from training and ...just hang around.. laughed a lot when Hippy *volunteered* - classic move that one hehehehe And had a lot of fun watching some poor guy being a bloody good holder freezing his @rs3 off doing it heheheheh :p Good practice for the UK Hipstar!! hehehehe

    PS just let me know about the dye if you need it dude! 😎

  9. flyingdutch said:

    that restricted gearing sucks!

    all together now... "One, two... whatya mean 4? 😕 😠 "

    The pursuit stuff was interesting. Kept saying to 'MissMarsBar' "Jeez, it aint that entertainin" and then unable to take my eyes off it! 🙄

    Some beautiful bikes there too.

    So, Cmn on Geoff. How did you go?

    And as for the tatt, I have tried to make that one out before on telly and live but its always just a blur 😄

    IT's pretty awesome to watch someone get caught and passed in the pursuit - you feel so bad for the passee, knowing how crushing it would be, how much further they have to dig to keep going and come back at the passer, and how bl@@dy awesome in the confidence stakes for the passer - real emotional stuff. As Geoff said, it's all so finely tuned ....

    And having a couple of club colleagues competing makes it all that much more interesting too - both won their qualifiers (but not sure how one of them went re: time and getting to the next level). One got gold outright (I think!!) in his round due to numbers - he caught the guy within the first lap too!!!!

    Some very neat bikes too - mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm real eyecandy!!! 😄 ie is that a mars bar on your bike????

  10. Geoff said:


    From what I saw when you were at the clubhouse bend you had
    it pretty well mastered. It was usually the riders that were
    stuffing it up. Do you remember the U19 girl that had her schedule
    written on her left arm and when the gun went of took her right
    hand off the bars to start the stopwatch on her left wrist nearly
    loosing it falling off Real bad form there. At that level she should
    have organised someone to call the schedule. Can't remember if
    it was the same girl but there was also one girl that never hit the
    aero bars for the entire ride!!! Why bolt them on if your not going
    to use them???. There was one of the senior women who rolled
    backwards on the gun and came really close to getting your toes.
    I don't know if you could hear us from where you were but the four
    of us watching were ready feel your pain.

    Damn.. I almost gave that chick a push!! I heard the gun and she
    didn't start and then it looked like she stalled (I couldn't see that
    she was starting her watch or anything). I thought she was about
    to topple over.. I was SO close to giving her a shove!! Caught
    myself at the last second.
    I did notice the girl who didn't use her aerobars - I just figured she
    was a noob, perhaps on a borrowed bike.
    I don't remember the tyre+toes incident.. I was probably too busy
    [censored] myself.. a bad start is pretty damaging and it was the
    state titles.

    hippy

  11. warrwych said:

    I stayed til just after you left Hipstar - sorry I
    didnt get to say goodbye 🙁 . I was up near the clubhouse and
    waved at you but you were too busy eyeing off some icecream, I
    mean bikes.
    I was chatting to my new State Champ Club Team Pursuit team
    mate WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH WTF did I do there saying yes to
    that!!?? HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA (thats hysterical laughter
    guys!!) Umm.. any tips on how to ride a track bike???????? <insert
    more hysterical laughter>

    It's been a long time since I've been to a track meet and how handy!!
    I get off the track from training and ...just hang around.. laughed a
    lot when Hippy *volunteered* - classic move that one hehehehe And
    had a lot of fun watching some poor guy being a bloody good holder
    freezing his @rs3 off doing it heheheheh :p Good practice for the UK
    Hipstar!! hehehehe

    PS just let me know about the dye if you need it dude! 😎

    Ah [censored].. I thought you'd gone. I really didn't want to check out the
    clubrooms in case I "volunteered" for something else!! 😉

    Track bike tip #1: Don't stop pedaling

    Yeah.. can't see myself wandering around London without shoes in
    lycra though 🙂

    After Louise's comments.. I finally got that haircut haha!!! Goatee still
    in place though 🙂

    hippy

  12. hippy said:

    Ah [censored].. I thought you'd gone. I really didn't want to check out the
    clubrooms in case I "volunteered" for something else!! 😉

    Track bike tip #1: Don't stop pedaling

    Yeah.. can't see myself wandering around London without shoes in
    lycra though 🙂

    After Louise's comments.. I finally got that haircut haha!!! Goatee still
    in place though 🙂

    hippy

    I know the pain, 160 riders at 30 second intervals, two holders so one rider every minute, freezing cold and a bunch of roadies not used to being held and fighting all over the place!

    cyclingnews.comphotos.php

  13. hippy said:

    Ah [censored].. I thought you'd gone. I really didn't want to check out the
    clubrooms in case I "volunteered" for something else!! 😉

    Track bike tip #1: Don't stop pedaling

    Yeah.. can't see myself wandering around London without shoes in
    lycra though 🙂

    After Louise's comments.. I finally got that haircut haha!!! Goatee still
    in place though 🙂

    hippy

    It's the dont stop pedalling bit that worries me : "Jane!! Jane Stop this crazy thing!!!" heheeh

    You got a haircut??????!!!!!!!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.... You'll have to change ur name now (unless you keep doing the barefoot thing hehehe)

    Barefoot and lycraed in London - could make for a REAL FUN trip hehehe
    😉

  14. "PiledHigher" <[email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    I know the pain, 160 riders at 30 second intervals, two holders so one
    rider every minute, freezing cold and a bunch of roadies not used to
    being held and fighting all over the place!


    http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos.php?id=photos/2004/jul04/debortoli/MSstage2-102

    hehe.. is that the DeBortoli Steel's Creek TT?
    Chilly!
    I had a much easier job of calling to the timers
    when a rider was approaching then taking pics
    as they went by :-)

    hippy

  15. "warrwych" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    flyingdutch said:

    that restricted gearing sucks!

    all together now... "One, two... whatya mean 4? 😕 😠 "

    The pursuit stuff was interesting. Kept saying to 'MissMarsBar' "Jeez,
    it aint that entertainin" and then unable to take my eyes off it!
    🙄

    Some beautiful bikes there too.

    So, Cmn on Geoff. How did you go?

    And as for the tatt, I have tried to make that one out before on telly
    and live but its always just a blur 😄

    IT's pretty awesome to watch someone get caught and passed in the
    pursuit - you feel so bad for the passee, knowing how crushing it would
    be, how much further they have to dig to keep going and come back at the
    passer, and how bl@@dy awesome in the confidence stakes for the passer
    - real emotional stuff. As Geoff said, it's all so finely tuned ....


    I once got the pleasure of lapping my brother in a pursuit. My much younger
    brother used to be super fit, had held the time trial records for the local
    cycling clubs and had even done an Ironman event, all of this by the time he
    was about 20 years of age. He'd let himself go a bit after the ironman event
    but came done to have a ride on the velodrome. I caught him and passed him
    after about three laps. I don't think he minded getting beaten by me as he's
    always encouraged me in sport and was pleased to see how far I'd come.

    Marty

  16. Marty Wallace said:


    "warrwych" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    flyingdutch said:

    that restricted gearing sucks!

    all together now... "One, two... whatya mean 4? 😕 😠 "

    The pursuit stuff was interesting. Kept saying to 'MissMarsBar' "Jeez,
    it aint that entertainin" and then unable to take my eyes off it!
    🙄

    Some beautiful bikes there too.

    So, Cmn on Geoff. How did you go?

    And as for the tatt, I have tried to make that one out before on telly
    and live but its always just a blur 😄

    IT's pretty awesome to watch someone get caught and passed in the
    pursuit - you feel so bad for the passee, knowing how crushing it would
    be, how much further they have to dig to keep going and come back at the
    passer, and how bl@@dy awesome in the confidence stakes for the passer
    - real emotional stuff. As Geoff said, it's all so finely tuned ....


    I once got the pleasure of lapping my brother in a pursuit. My much younger
    brother used to be super fit, had held the time trial records for the local
    cycling clubs and had even done an Ironman event, all of this by the time he
    was about 20 years of age. He'd let himself go a bit after the ironman event
    but came done to have a ride on the velodrome. I caught him and passed him
    after about three laps. I don't think he minded getting beaten by me as he's
    always encouraged me in sport and was pleased to see how far I'd come.

    Marty

    My brother was the sports star and I was the musician. Boy was he [censored]
    (and proud) when he heard my times for the Gold Coast Half Marathon and
    the Cairns Half IM in 2004. He said that when he comes to visit from
    Hong Kong next time, he won't join me for a run, and instead he'll take
    me for a game of tennis or golf... something where he knows he'll beat
    me.

    T

  17. "warrwych" <[email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    You got a haircut??????!!!!!!!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.... You'll have to change ur name
    now (unless you keep doing the barefoot thing hehehe)

    Ug? ;-)

    Quoted message said:

    Barefoot and lycraed in London - could make for a REAL FUN trip hehehe

    Or painful.. depending on which crowd I ran into first..

    hippy

  18. hippy said:


    Unusually we hung around afterwards, some of us until the State
    Pursuit Titles started.

    just found out club colleague and new pursuit team fellow member and instigator Monique came 3rd at the titles WOOHOOOO GO GIRL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not bad for 6wks on a track bike 😄 perhaps we can just leave her up the front for the teams pursuit and no one will notice that we havent swapped leads???? we all look the same in blue and yellow :p except for the little one on the end!!!!

    and great to see a regional club on the podium as well </shamelessplug>

  19. On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 at 01:13 GMT, Tamyka Bell (aka Bruce)
    was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

    Quoted message said:

    My brother was the sports star and I was the musician. Boy was he [censored]
    (and proud) when he heard my times for the Gold Coast Half Marathon and
    the Cairns Half IM in 2004. He said that when he comes to visit from
    Hong Kong next time, he won't join me for a run, and instead he'll take
    me for a game of tennis or golf... something where he knows he'll beat
    me.

    Twould be good if he could whip your pants at the piano, now, though.

    --
    TimC -- http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/staff/tconnors/
    /*----------------------------/*
    *-----------------------------* |
    | A very interesting comment | |
    | resides in this space. | /
    *-----------------------------*/

  20. On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 at 23:43 GMT, PiledHigher (aka Bruce)
    was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

    Quoted message said:

    I know the pain, 160 riders at 30 second intervals, two holders so one
    rider every minute, freezing cold and a bunch of roadies not used to
    being held and fighting all over the place!

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos.php?id=photos/2004/jul04/debortoli/MSstage2-102

    Looks like they are both enjoying a good feeling of the [censored].

    --
    TimC -- http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/staff/tconnors/
    Yesterday, after years of trying, I finally managed to take a photo of a
    subway train that said "INSTRUCTION CAR" just so that someday I can caption
    it "...but where's the DATA CDR?" when I'm ready to make a joke that's
    nerdy even by the standards of jokes about LISP. -- James "Kibo" Perry

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