Just bought secondhand bike need advice

in message <[email hidden]>,

(') said:

After lurking for a couple of days I'd like some advice. I've spent
£35 on a used Dawes Sterling (Mans), its about 8 years old, and has
been well used but not totallly thrashed. It needs a good clean, and
the derailiers seem to work OK but are pretty gunked up. I think one
tyre is the original, the brake cables seems to have been replaced
(but not recently). I just put a ladies gel saddle on it. (I am
female)

My last bike (some time ago) was an extremely heavy and ancient 3
speed (sturmey archer) Triumph. Now that I could strip down - this,
I'm a bit clueless. What's the best way to clean the derailier of its
gunk. Was thinking parafin or WD40 then relubribating. Any other
immediate tasks I should undertake? I could get it serviced but I want
to relearn how to do this myself.

My approach when dealing with a bike in this sort of state is to fill a
tray (I use a cat litter tray, they're the right size and quite cheap)
with parafin, and then disassemble all the gunky bits and drop them in
it. Use an old nailbrush and toothbrush to scrub out all the gunky
corners. Once clean, take the components out, dry as much parafin as
possible off with a rag, and spread them out on old newspaper to dry
thoroughly. Inspect everything, and replace anything that looks worn.

Then put it all back together again, greasing appropriately as you go.
If you get as far as disassembling the wheel, headset and bottom
bracket bearings (which ideally you should but I'd understand if you
found this a bit intimidating) it's probably not worth bothering with
the old bearing balls - just chuck new ones in, they're really cheap.
Remember that in every bearing the right number of balls is the number
that leaves a gap that looks as if you could get another ball in -
indeed, often you _can_ squash another ball in, but you'll wreck the
bearing if you do.

Stripping cup-and-cone type bearings is dead easy. Putting them back
together exactly tight enough is more of a knack - see
<URL:http://sheldonbrown.com/cone-adjustment.html> (in fact, browsing
around Sheldon Brown's site is highly recommended before you start and
if you get stuck). Some bikes, of course, now have cartridge bearings;
if these are worn you have to replace the whole cartridge.

Thoroughly stripping and rebuilding a bike isn't at all hard. It will
take about four hours, give or take. Very few of the parts even can be
put in wrong. You will learn a lot about your bike. The only tricky bit
is getting the bearings the right tightness as you put them back
together, but if you follow Sheldon's advice you'll be fine.

Quoted message said:

I'm not totally happy with the handlebars, having only ridden situp
and begs before. They are typical drop handlebars, not the weird multi
shape but I find them a bit awkward. The stem they attach to also
extends them out from the frame horizontally by about 2 inches, which
is probably a bit too much of a reach for me. Any advice on swapping
the bars or the stem, or will I get used to it..

Two inches is a very short stem; if the reach is too long it may be that
the bike is too big for you. See how much you can move the saddle
forward and see if that makes the reach more comfortable. Four or five
inches is a more typical length for a stem.

Quoted message said:

I am going to buy the Zinn Repair Book but want to get cracking.

Excellent book, recommended.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

'Victories are not solutions.'
;; John Hume, Northern Irish politician, on Radio Scotland 1/2/95
;; Nobel Peace Prize laureate 1998; few have deserved it so much

Quoted message said:

After lurking for a couple of days I'd like some advice. I've spent
£35 on a used Dawes Sterling (Mans), its about 8 years old, and has
been well used but not totallly thrashed. It needs a good clean, and
the derailiers seem to work OK but are pretty gunked up. I think one
tyre is the original, the brake cables seems to have been replaced (but
not recently). I just put a ladies gel saddle on it. (I am female)

My last bike (some time ago) was an extremely heavy and ancient 3 speed
(sturmey archer) Triumph. Now that I could strip down - this, I'm a bit
clueless. What's the best way to clean the derailier of its gunk. Was
thinking parafin or WD40 then relubribating. Any other immediate tasks
I should undertake? I could get it serviced but I want to relearn how
to do this myself.

I'm not totally happy with the handlebars, having only ridden situp and
begs before. They are typical drop handlebars, not the weird multi
shape but I find them a bit awkward. The stem they attach to also
extends them out from the frame horizontally by about 2 inches, which
is probably a bit too much of a reach for me. Any advice on swapping
the bars or the stem, or will I get used to it..

I am going to buy the Zinn Repair Book but want to get cracking. Advice
much appreciated.

Emma

Hi Emma,

Being of an old fashioned mind I tend to clean most things with a mix of
paraffin, washing liquid and petrol. It's mostly paraffin, the washing
up liquid is a binder so you need enough to thicken it so it sticks
rather than running off, Petrol a very smidgen gives it some bite for
stubborn stuff. A stiff tooth brush and presto clean.
To get the rubbish off your hands after, washing up liquid and sugar
will get even heavy rubbed in grease out.
Things I would check are the bearings in the head, bottom bracket and
wheels, spindles and b/b axle. Spoke tension, do they each ping or are
some dull? Wheels, are they straight and true. If the derailier is a
gunk pit the cassette is probably full of dirt to, I would clean it as
much as possible and the chain with it. The chain, cassette and front
rings wear together, or should do. Replacing one should best mean
replacing all, otherwise you may experience skipping, an annoyance
where the chain rides over the gear teeth without meshing. If it's
working just clean it up and sparingly drop a couple of drips of 3in1
along the chain.
Beware oil, to much is as bad, if not worse than, to little.
Check the tubes and tube tapes as well as the outer tyres, they may be
in need of replacement.
Brakes I take for granted you will have checked, if the cables are
frayed replace them otherwise what ain't busted don't need fixing.
As for the handlebars, you'll get used to them pretty quickly and wonder
how you ever lived with just the one position. With drops you can move
about, One up one down, two down, two up, left down right up, vice
versa... try them out, I think they are great.

Sniper 8052

Quoted message said:

After lurking for a couple of days I'd like some advice. I've spent
£35 on a used Dawes Sterling (Mans), its about 8 years old, and has
been well used but not totallly thrashed. It needs a good clean, and
the derailiers seem to work OK but are pretty gunked up. I think one
tyre is the original, the brake cables seems to have been replaced
(but not recently). I just put a ladies gel saddle on it. (I am
female)

My last bike (some time ago) was an extremely heavy and ancient 3
speed (sturmey archer) Triumph. Now that I could strip down - this,
I'm a bit clueless.

It'll be easier to work on this bike once you get the hang of it.

Quoted message said:

What's the best way to clean the derailier of its
gunk. Was thinking parafin or WD40 then relubribating.

Remove its cage back plate by undoing the jockey wheel bolts, and take
jockey wheels apart if possible. Clean all derailleur parts with parafin
or WD40 as best as you can; lube pivots with oil; lube jockey wheel
bushings (rollers in the middle) with grease or oil.
All this is much easier when the chain is removed first, by the way.

Quoted message said:

Any other
immediate tasks I should undertake? I could get it serviced but I
want to relearn how to do this myself.

I would service the hubs & headset, and grease seatpost and handlebar stem
shaft, but that lot might not need doing /immediately/. The bike will
most likely be safe to ride if the wheels are reasonably round, bolts are
tight and bits aren't falling off it :-)

Quoted message said:

I'm not totally happy with the handlebars, having only ridden situp
and begs before. They are typical drop handlebars, not the weird multi
shape but I find them a bit awkward. The stem they attach to also
extends them out from the frame horizontally by about 2 inches, which
is probably a bit too much of a reach for me. Any advice on swapping
the bars or the stem, or will I get used to it..

It'll be worth persevering for a while in case you do get used to the bars
& stem. Try different angles and heights. Definitely try a different
stem before abandoning the whole lot, anyway. Then perhaps even different
drop bars before giving up on the idea of drops altogether, if it comes to
that. (Look out for 3T Morphe bars).

Before buying a new stem, measure the extension from centre of top bolt to
centre of bars.

These two sites might be useful:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/

http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/FAQindex.shtml -- aimed at shop
mechanics, this one does include a lot of advanced jobs that you may never
have or want to do, but has some good basic info as well.

~PB

Quoted message said:

clueless. What's the best way to clean the derailier of its gunk. Was
thinking parafin or WD40 then relubribating. Any other immediate tasks
I should undertake? I could get it serviced but I want to relearn how
to do this myself.

Petrol is also a very good cleaner, but obviously don't get naked flames
near it [1] and dispose of it responsibly (ie, not down the drain!).
WD40 is really a water dispersant, not a cleaner, and is quite expensive.

Other things: check all nuts and bolts are tight. Check the brakes are
aligned properly. Check the wheels are true. Check the gears change
nicely.

R.

[1] This is not a cue for the usual "petrol doesn't explode, petrol
fumes explode" chorus, peeps. :-)

Pete Biggs said:

All this is much easier when the chain is removed first, by the way.

If you remove teh chain, the easiest way to clean it is put it in a
glass jar with some solvent and shake. After you've removed teh
chain, you can leave the gunk to settle, decant off teh clear solvent
and use it next time. The solvent can be almost anything - mine is
now mostly a mix of meths and white spirit, I think.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

Ian Smith said:

If you remove teh chain, the easiest way to clean it is put it in a
glass jar with some solvent and shake. After you've removed teh
chain, you can leave the gunk to settle, decant off teh clear solvent
and use it next time. The solvent can be almost anything - mine is
now mostly a mix of meths and white spirit, I think.

Depends on how dirty it is. If you end up with dirty mucky looking
solvent you need to repeat with fresh solvent. Otherwise that grit
laden solvent is inside the links where it will dry leaving its grit to
grind away at the pins and bushes and accelerate wear. Most people
worry about a chain looking clean whereas it the parts that you can't
see that really need to be clean

Tony

Richard said:

Petrol is also a very good cleaner, but obviously don't get naked
flames near it [1] and dispose of it responsibly (ie, not down
the drain!).

Fire and explosion are the obvious hazards of petrol, but not the only
ones. The fumes are also far more toxic than those of many alternative
solvents.

--
Dave...

emmakane said:

[snip]

Emma

Hi Emma

Firstly some of the posts have recommended using petrol to clean your bike
bits. Don't! Petrol is very flammable and will actually penetrate some
parts too well leaving no residual oil.

Use GT85 which is similar to WD40 but much cheaper. Give all the mucky
stuff -- front mech, rear mech, chain, chainrings, and the cassette cogs
-- a good spray with GT85 then afterwards wash all bits with hot soapy
water (washing up liquid). Use rubber gloves to protect your hands. J
cloths and old tooth brushes and are useful, too.

Being female you will have a problem with a man's bike. Men have longer
arms but shorter legs than women. Women's backs also bend in a
slightly different place to men, which also affects how far you can
reach forward on the bike. You've already discovered that the handle bars
are a bit far away (and maybe a bit low). Since the h/bar stem is already
very short, it may affect the handling of the bike if you fit a shorter
stem.

You could experiment with putting a shorter stem that slopes upwards
to bring the h/bars closer and higher (cheapest option). And maybe getting
handle bars that bend backwards towards you. But then you would have to
get new brake levers and maybe gear levers (more expensive).

You would probably be better off getting a second hand women's touring
bike. But you'd pay a lot more than 35 quid.

Seek out some other women cyclists and see what they are riding and if any
are the same height as you try their bikes.

HTH

Bin

In article said:

Firstly some of the posts have recommended using petrol to clean your bike
bits. Don't! Petrol is very flammable and will actually penetrate some
parts too well leaving no residual oil.

Use GT85 which is similar to WD40 but much cheaper.

WD40 is cheaper if you buy a five litre bottle with a hand sprayer
instead of aerosols.

Sniper8052(L96A1) said:

Things I would check are the bearings in the head, bottom bracket and
wheels, spindles and b/b axle.

It's worth adding that these jobs are much easier if you equip yourself
with the proper tools - the basics for these jobs, I reckon, would be
cone spanners (check size), a cassette/freewheel remover (one that fits
the splines on your cassette/freewheel) and a chainwhip, all of which
can be bought quite cheaply from Halfords or your LBS. A headset spanner
might be handy too if you don't already have a spanner large enough in
your toolkit.

If you also want to change your bottom bracket (only do this if it is
really necessary) you'll also need a crank extractor and an appropriate
bottom bracket tool (one that fits the splines on your bottom bracket).

General tools you'll also need if you don't already have them in your
toolkit are - depending on how your bike components are bolted together,
- a set of long-handled allen keys (up to 10mm) and/or an appropriate
selection of spanners (open-ended and ring, or dual-ended). Can't
immediately think of any other tools that will be useful, except perhaps
screwdrivers for adjusting derailleur mechanisms.

Quoted message said:

As for the handlebars, you'll get used to them pretty quickly and wonder
how you ever lived with just the one position.

....unless the stem really is too long, in which case it could quickly
become very uncomfortable indeed.

d.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

..unless the stem really is too long, in which case it could quickly

become very uncomfortable indeed.

Having just changed to drops, I agree it does seem to be a stretch at
first. And if the OP really has been on "sit up and begs" up to now =
the old fashioned swept-back types rather than straight bars, then
it's even more of a change. Isn't there a rule of thumb about forearm
length from the saddle or something that the OP can try to see if it's
the wrong sice or close enough?

Another option is to move the saddle forwards and see if that helps.
Even cheaper, if there's enough adjustment available.

On 15/4/05 12:23 pm, in article
[email hidden], "iakobski"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

..unless the stem really is too long, in which case it could quickly

become very uncomfortable indeed.

Having just changed to drops, I agree it does seem to be a stretch at
first. And if the OP really has been on "sit up and begs" up to now =
the old fashioned swept-back types rather than straight bars, then
it's even more of a change. Isn't there a rule of thumb about forearm
length from the saddle or something that the OP can try to see if it's
the wrong sice or close enough?

The rule of thumb is that the distance from the tip of the saddle to the
bars (for drops) should be about the same as the distance from the elbow to
the tips of the fingers. I find this much too short and have a much longer
stem.

...d

iakobski <[email hidden]> wrote:
:>> ..unless the stem really is too long, in which case it could quickly
: become very uncomfortable indeed.

: Another option is to move the saddle forwards and see if that helps.
: Even cheaper, if there's enough adjustment available.

While commonly recommended, it's the wrong solution. Saddle fore/aft position
should be set first (along with saddle height) to give a neutral pedaling
position and not changed to try and get round reach issues.

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
Don't get me wrong, perl is an OK operating system, but it lacks a
lightweight scripting language -- Walter Dnes

Richard said:

Petrol is also a very good cleaner, but obviously don't get naked
flames near it [1] and dispose of it responsibly (ie, not down the
drain!). WD40 is really a water dispersant, not a cleaner, and is
quite expensive.

WD40 actually works well as a cleaner and is much safer than petrol. What
proper cyclist has access to petrol anyway? ;-)

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

Richard said:

Petrol is also a very good cleaner, but obviously don't get naked
flames near it [1] and dispose of it responsibly (ie, not down the
drain!). WD40 is really a water dispersant, not a cleaner, and is
quite expensive.

WD40 actually works well as a cleaner and is much safer than petrol. What
proper cyclist has access to petrol anyway? ;-)

Only for the hedgetrimmer and chainsaw..

...d
(My car is a diesel)

in message <[email hidden]>, David Martin

(') said:

On 15/4/05 12:23 pm, in article
[email hidden], "iakobski"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> ..unless the stem really is too long, in which case it could
> quickly

become very uncomfortable indeed.

Having just changed to drops, I agree it does seem to be a stretch at
first. And if the OP really has been on "sit up and begs" up to now =
the old fashioned swept-back types rather than straight bars, then
it's even more of a change. Isn't there a rule of thumb about forearm
length from the saddle or something that the OP can try to see if
it's the wrong sice or close enough?

The rule of thumb is that the distance from the tip of the saddle to
the bars (for drops) should be about the same as the distance from the
elbow to the tips of the fingers. I find this much too short and have
a much longer stem.

Ditto. My elbow-to-tip-of-finger length is less than the top-tube length
of any of my bikes, and 150mm shorter than the tip-of-saddle-to-bars
length - but then I have unusually small hands.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; When all else fails, read the distractions.

in message <[email hidden]>, Arthur Clune

(') said:

iakobski <[email hidden]> wrote:
:>> ..unless the stem really is too long, in which case it could
:>> quickly become very uncomfortable indeed.

: Another option is to move the saddle forwards and see if that helps.
: Even cheaper, if there's enough adjustment available.

While commonly recommended, it's the wrong solution. Saddle fore/aft
position should be set first (along with saddle height) to give a
neutral pedaling position and not changed to try and get round reach
issues.

Yup, we know this, but is seems as if the frame is probably too big for
her. It seems to me better to have the saddle a little forward of its
optimum position than have a zero-length stem.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Woz: 'All the best people in life seem to like LINUX.'
;; <URL:http://www.woz.org/woz/cresponses/response03.html>

Simon Brooke <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Yup, we know this, but is seems as if the frame is probably too big for
: her. It seems to me better to have the saddle a little forward of its
: optimum position than have a zero-length stem.

To be brutal though, if it's that much too big, it will never be comfortable.

Now that might be ok if all that's wanted is something to do 1 mile to the
shops and back, but for longer riding if it's too big, it's too big.

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
Don't get me wrong, perl is an OK operating system, but it lacks a
lightweight scripting language -- Walter Dnes

Well thanks for all the replies so far. I've given it a bit of clean up
and its all looking a lot better. I'm 5'7'' with a really long back so
I don't think size is really the issue, more the newness of the riding
position to me. This is a bike to get me back in the saddle, so to
speak, if all goes well I may well get a better one, but its a decent
bike that was going cheap so I want to make it usable for the time
being.

Many Thanks,

Emma