Julich with hard comments about Ullrich

sploush said:

"He doesn't love what he does .... He does the minimum to obtain the maximum," Julich said of the German. "Ivan does the maximum to obtain the maximum. He lives for the bike, he loves the bike."

Jumping on Ullrich's work ethic is not new, but is it wise from julich to say this now, with Ullrich obviously in good form?

The head games continue.
Bobby knows fron the inside though.

[quote="sploush"]"He doesn't love what he does .... He does the minimum to obtain the maximum," Julich said of the German. "Ivan does the maximum to obtain the maximum. He lives for the bike, he loves the bike."

Julich said that!! Ha! We'll see....

Yes I must agree Julich's tour results of best of a 3rd and last years 17th is much better than Ullrich' s 5 2nds, a 1st and one 4th place.

mmmm...Go Bobby

janiejones said:

Yes I must agree Julich's tour results of best of a 3rd and last years 17th is much better than Ullrich' s 5 2nds, a 1st and one 4th place.

mmmm...Go Bobby

It's not about results. It's about preparation. Still, kind of a harsh way to stick up for your guy.

Durangodave said:

It's not about results. It's about preparation. Still, kind of a harsh way to stick up for your guy.

He may not be sticking up for his guy only.
He may be sticking it to a very rigid, uncreative and fairly destructive pro cycling team that has done a lot of damage to certain riders, didnt help certain riders who should have been nurtured and sent up the ranks, and just dissed others.

Julich is high up on that list.
We dont know how bad it was for him, but I would assume his comments are one barometer of how screwed up the climate was there.
But just to add to others who hace crapped out on T-Mob:
Cadel Evans, much better as soon as he left.
Botero much better as soon as he left.
ended the career of Kevn Livingston, a truly very talented rider.
and of course Julich.
Sevilla has never done anything once there.
Basically anyone not German if you get the drift.

And oh yeah, how did they treat their most succesful rider Erik Zabel?

Bobby was treated as pack fodder and as a second rate rider.
What goes around comes around.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention, after winning 1997, what was Ullrichs best year by far?
2003 when he left the T-Mob team.
What happened to him as soon as he went back?
FInished off the podium for the first time ever.
The evidence is that for the dollar spent, they have a curios knack of not getting the most out of their riders.

A bit rich for Bobby to say. He is a very talented rider who I think has never reached his own maxium potenial.

Best let the bike do the talking I say.

bobke said:

The evidence is that for the dollar spent, they have a curios knack of not getting the most out of their riders.

That is the price you pay from being "too clean"...

Whether you like his comments or not, they ring true. When was the last time Jan entered the season ready to rock, instead of looking like he needed to lose several rocks. He's clearly not a guy who loves being on a bike, evident by his lack of readiness at the beginning of each season. The simple reason why he hasn't repeated as a Tour champion is his main rival has always been a step ahead in preparation etc. He doesn't do anything meaningful before April/May and then is gone shortly after the TDF.

So is this year any different. No. Which is why he will again lose to a better prepared rival.

patch70 said:

That is the price you pay from being "too clean"...

I doubt that is the case...... Sevilla clean? T-Mobile did exactly what Discovery has done, put all their marbles on one rider. The difference is that LA won and JU didn't in the TDF. But ..... T-Mobile has the best record in cycling as far as over all wins. Both are great teams. And both are bad mouthed for tossing good riders away. That seems to be the formula for winning recently.
So ..... Discovery is the best team in the race that counts and T-mobile is the best team as far as overall wins.
And what have the others done?
Every champions team has blown good riders out the door. Go back and see what Merckx's Molteni.... Hinault had a problem with Lemond but he blew a few other riders off.

sploush said:

"He doesn't love what he does .... He does the minimum to obtain the maximum," Julich said of the German. "Ivan does the maximum to obtain the maximum. He lives for the bike, he loves the bike."

Jumping on Ullrich's work ethic is not new, but is it wise from julich to say this now, with Ullrich obviously in good form?

Funny thing if you read Ullrich's autobiography he rates Jullich as one of his closer mates in the peleton ! No doubt this was a Riis insprierd comment after the "catastrophe" comment went down like a lead balloon. Ullrich has heard all of this before. Won't change a thing. Legs win races not words.

bobke said:

He may not be sticking up for his guy only.
He may be sticking it to a very rigid, uncreative and fairly destructive pro cycling team that has done a lot of damage to certain riders, didnt help certain riders who should have been nurtured and sent up the ranks, and just dissed others.

Julich is high up on that list.
We dont know how bad it was for him, but I would assume his comments are one barometer of how screwed up the climate was there.
But just to add to others who hace crapped out on T-Mob:
Cadel Evans, much better as soon as he left.
Botero much better as soon as he left.
ended the career of Kevn Livingston, a truly very talented rider.
and of course Julich.
Sevilla has never done anything once there.
Basically anyone not German if you get the drift.

And oh yeah, how did they treat their most succesful rider Erik Zabel?

Bobby was treated as pack fodder and as a second rate rider.
What goes around comes around.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention, after winning 1997, what was Ullrichs best year by far?
2003 when he left the T-Mob team.
What happened to him as soon as he went back?
FInished off the podium for the first time ever.
The evidence is that for the dollar spent, they have a curios knack of not getting the most out of their riders.

I think Godefroot and T-Mobile (the company) wasn't a good combination, Godefroot didn't want Jan back (after 2003), Godefrrot didn't want Pevenage back etc. etc. T-Mobile wasn't a team in 2004 and 2005. Ludwig changed that after Godefroot left. TM is a team again (you could see that very well at the TdS). Julich is playing mindgames and better stops with it, he is a nice guy and it's pretty clear to me that Bjarne was whispering in his ear...

cyclingheroes said:

I think Godefroot and T-Mobile (the company) wasn't a good combination, Godefroot didn't want Jan back (after 2003), Godefrrot didn't want Pevenage back etc. etc. T-Mobile wasn't a team in 2004 and 2005. Ludwig changed that after Godefroot left. TM is a team again (you could see that very well at the TdS). Julich is playing mindgames and better stops with it, he is a nice guy and it's pretty clear to me that Bjarne was whispering in his ear...

Jan was recently asked about Riis's comments and responded with short "That's not important, what is important is my training and prepartion". Ullrich is getting mind coaching of his on. He has been here before and 7 years of Armstrong has taught him not to get drawn into these types of comments. Legs win races not words.

Maybe CSC are running scared ?

whiteboytrash said:

Jan was recently asked about Riis's comments and responded with short "That's not important, what is important is my training and prepartion". Ullrich is getting mind coaching of his on. He has been here before and 7 years of Armstrong has taught him not to get drawn into these types of comments. Legs win races not words.

Maybe CSC are running scared ?

I know Jan is not really interested in the mind games of Riis and co. He knows Basso's main goal was the Giro and that Riis is a bad looser (he experienced that in 1997) is well known. We will see what Ivan brings at the TdF, as you say: legs win races not words!

bobke said:

He may not be sticking up for his guy only.
He may be sticking it to a very rigid, uncreative and fairly destructive pro cycling team that has done a lot of damage to certain riders, didnt help certain riders who should have been nurtured and sent up the ranks, and just dissed others.

Julich is high up on that list.
We dont know how bad it was for him, but I would assume his comments are one barometer of how screwed up the climate was there.
But just to add to others who hace crapped out on T-Mob:
Cadel Evans, much better as soon as he left.
Botero much better as soon as he left.
ended the career of Kevn Livingston, a truly very talented rider.
and of course Julich.
Sevilla has never done anything once there.
Basically anyone not German if you get the drift.

And oh yeah, how did they treat their most succesful rider Erik Zabel?

Bobby was treated as pack fodder and as a second rate rider.
What goes around comes around.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention, after winning 1997, what was Ullrichs best year by far?
2003 when he left the T-Mob team.
What happened to him as soon as he went back?
FInished off the podium for the first time ever.
The evidence is that for the dollar spent, they have a curios knack of not getting the most out of their riders.

This must be a first.
I think you're partly corrrect in your analysis.

For whatever reason several riders have gone to TMO and have no succeeded.
I don't know if that is down to the riders themselves or the culture at TMO.
Cadel Evans career at TMo was dogged by injury but in an interview in Feb 2005, Andreas Kloden said "Evans is a strange guy - he simply could not accept the culture of TMO".
Evans in a subsequent interview stated "because they have a lot of East German riders, they need to have a very controlled envoriment - and you either accept that or you don't".

As regards Zabel - TMO treated him very very well : over the 10 years spent there, Zabel made a very lucrative living (and rightly so).
The fact that he left after 10 years doesn't indicate bad treatment on either
TMO's side or his side.
In fact if you read Zabels interview in Procycling earlier this year, when he started at Milram, he says that he is still close to "Jan and Andreas" and he wants to see "Jan win again at the very highest level".
He also talks about the fact that they all came through the Berlin Cycling school and that it "is a bond that cannot be broken".

As for Julich.
I think BJ is a good guy. I am surprised that he's having a go at JU but I suspect that it is mind games.

Rhubarb said:

A bit rich for Bobby to say. He is a very talented rider who I think has never reached his own maxium potenial.

Best let the bike do the talking I say.

He's an old Cofidis rider, and I needn't say any more than that.

exactly why i cringed when i heard Mick Rogers went to TMobile....a dangerous move indeed. they do seem to like him though, and rate him highly, perhaps if he can drag Jan's [censored] up a few mountains they'll love him more.
there's talk and hope etc in another year or two he might be captain -
i personally doubt it, he's not german and dont really see him competing for top5's etc in the tour any time soon.
i think TMO treat their own well...domestiques and the like who've been around forever and do the hard yards for the team. Rolf Aldag springs to mind. ive no problem with that, theyre a german team so why not. i just think foreigners, particularly foreigners who have some talent and desire, really struggle there.

Ricardo29 said:

exactly why i cringed when i heard Mick Rogers went to TMobile....a dangerous move indeed. they do seem to like him though, and rate him highly, perhaps if he can drag Jan's [censored] up a few mountains they'll love him more.
there's talk and hope etc in another year or two he might be captain -
i personally doubt it, he's not german and dont really see him competing for top5's etc in the tour any time soon.
i think TMO treat their own well...domestiques and the like who've been around forever and do the hard yards for the team. Rolf Aldag springs to mind. ive no problem with that, theyre a german team so why not. i just think foreigners, particularly foreigners who have some talent and desire, really struggle there.

Rogers is highly thought of, at TMO.
I read in Cycling Sport that JU rates Rogers very very highly.

I think you're right - I think the difficulty maybe cultural more than anything else.
It's a German team (TMO) and therefore their team culture may be diffcult to adapt to for foreign riders (and that is more or less what kloden said was Evans reason for leaving TMO).

limerickman said:

Rogers is highly thought of, at TMO.
I read in Cycling Sport that JU rates Rogers very very highly.

I think you're right - I think the difficulty maybe cultural more than anything else.
It's a German team (TMO) and therefore their team culture may be diffcult to adapt to for foreign riders (and that is more or less what kloden said was Evans reason for leaving TMO).

It's more or less what i ment with the Godefroot and Ludwig change, with Ludwig the team culture changed. It could be the reason that Rogers, Gonchar and Sevilla are feeling pretty well at TM (at the moment)...

limerickman said:

Rogers is highly thought of, at TMO.
I read in Cycling Sport that JU rates Rogers very very highly.

I think you're right - I think the difficulty maybe cultural more than anything else.
It's a German team (TMO) and therefore their team culture may be diffcult to adapt to for foreign riders (and that is more or less what kloden said was Evans reason for leaving TMO).

Rogers and Ullrich have actually become good mates....

sploush said:

"He doesn't love what he does .... He does the minimum to obtain the maximum," Julich said of the German. "Ivan does the maximum to obtain the maximum. He lives for the bike, he loves the bike."

Jumping on Ullrich's work ethic is not new, but is it wise from julich to say this now, with Ullrich obviously in good form?

YAWN!