Join CTC now!

Paul Weaver said:

I didn't, it was always on my "todo" list, but other things kept
getting in the way which was silly in hindsight. Fortunatly I have
legal cover with my home insurance, but I'd have prefered to go via a
company with the correct experience.

If you're not a member, I'd advise joining, as it will save a headache
in the future.

Brief mention of CTC in todays Times (p24) at the end of an article
about someone using a Segway on the roads.

(It's on page 2 of the online version under the strapline "Cyclists
failing to take cover"😉

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2322051.html

-Alex

Alex said the following on 21/08/2006 11:02:

Quoted message said:

Brief mention of CTC in todays Times (p24) at the end of an article
about someone using a Segway on the roads.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2322051.html

This country is getting even more ridiculous! Electric wheelchairs are
allowed to hurtle about un-restricted, but efforts to get people onto a
different form of clean, environmentally friendly electric transport hit
some archaic law. Why on earth would anyone even bother trying to
scrape up this law to get Segways off the roads?

For a start, all laws created before, say 1950, should be scrapped, in
my opinion, and if necessary new, more appropriate laws put in their
place, but decided by common sense and not mindless bureaucracy. I can
dream on, I suppose.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Paul Boyd ([email hidden]) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

Quoted message said:

This country is getting even more ridiculous! Electric wheelchairs are
allowed to hurtle about un-restricted

No, they're not.

Electric wheelchairs are allowed to "hurtle" about restricted to 4mph.

Mobility scooters are allowed to "hurtle" about at up to 8mph, but not on
the pavement.

Any electric vehicle faster than that has to fit into specific regulations
- including electric bikes.

Quoted message said:

Why on earth would anyone even bother trying to scrape up this law to get
Segways off the roads?

It's not "scraping up" - it's applying the laws that are there. The same
ones that cover those mini-moto pint-size motorbikes.

Some of those are electric, as are some go-karts. You'd be happy for those
to hoon about unfettered?

Quoted message said:

For a start, all laws created before, say 1950, should be scrapped, in
my opinion, and if necessary new, more appropriate laws put in their
place, but decided by common sense and not mindless bureaucracy.

You trust this lot (or, indeed, any of the other recent or likely near-
future lots) to keep some of the minor details such as "innocent until
proven guilty"...?

Alex said:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2322051.html

The document (from the Dept. of Transport) also advises Segway users to
wear "appropriate safety clothing at all times".

What the f#@*?

--
Dave...

Adrian said the following on 21/08/2006 11:51:

Quoted message said:

Electric wheelchairs are allowed to "hurtle" about restricted to 4mph.
Mobility scooters are allowed to "hurtle" about at up to 8mph, but not on
the pavement.

You've read far too much into my use of the word "hurtle". The point I
was making really was that one form of electric transport is quite
happily going about its business, whilst another is being deliberately
obstructed by obsolete laws. I thought alternative transport was
supposed to be being encouraged, especially in places like London, not
to have someone looking for excuses not to use it.

Quoted message said:

It's not "scraping up" - it's applying the laws that are there. The same
ones that cover those mini-moto pint-size motorbikes.

This law was created in 1835 - 171 years ago. It doesn't cover
mini-motos any more than it covers Segways. Neither existed then, and
it is some bureaucrat who has scraped up the law and interpreted it to
fit their purpose. This is why I said they need to be updated - so that
they apply a bit more to the 21st century, rather than just vaguely
trying to fit 21st century transport into early 19th century laws that
weren't made for them.

Quoted message said:

You trust this lot (or, indeed, any of the other recent or likely near-
future lots) to keep some of the minor details such as "innocent until
proven guilty"...?

No, I wouldn't, but your implication is that I was expecting politicians
to update the laws. If a politician (of any party) told me that today
was Monday, I'd want to check a calender. Perhaps laws should be
created by something like a jury system - after all, if a group of
non-experts can decide someone's fate in court, then perhaps the same
group can help to make the laws in the first place.

Up the revolution!! :-)

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Alex said:

Brief mention of CTC in todays Times (p24) at the end of an article
about someone using a Segway on the roads.

(It's on page 2 of the online version under the strapline "Cyclists
failing to take cover"😉

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2322051.html

Where we read:
[Isidore Margaronis'] journey takes 20 minutes by Segway or 40 minutes
by bus or Tube. “I prefer the Segway because, unlike with a bike, you
don’t arrive in a lather. I can wear a suit and go straight into a
meeting, taking my Segway up in the lift.”

Lather? Blather! Brompton.

Colin

Paul Boyd wrote:

Electric wheelchairs are

Quoted message said:

allowed to hurtle about un-restricted, but efforts to get people onto a
different form of clean, environmentally friendly electric transport hit
some archaic law.

which environmentally friendly renewable source, pray, does the energy
come from to power these Segways of which you speak? (1)

(1) yes you could say the same of Toyoto Prii (?) but they are
replacing ICE car journeys; Segways are replacing Shanks Pony, pedal
cycles or presumably nothing. And that does not include energy used in
manufacturing them.

Paul Boyd twisted the electrons to say:

Quoted message said:

Perhaps laws should be created by something like a jury system - after
all, if a group of non-experts can decide someone's fate in court, then
perhaps the same group can help to make the laws in the first place.

House of Lords as (1 years) jury service anyone? Some of the changes the
current lot have put through would have to be reversed in order to give
an upper house with actual teeth though ...

Quoted message said:

Up the revolution!! :-)

.... and not before time!
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...

dkahn400 said:

Alex said:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2322051.html

The document (from the Dept. of Transport) also advises Segway users to
wear "appropriate safety clothing at all times".

What the f#@*?

IIRC they dump you on the floor, hard, when they run out of batteries.
Might want to waer some knee pads. Might also want to wear a think
skin if riding one in public. Segways always make me think of riding
one of those rotary floor polishers thye used to have at school

Paul Boyd ([email hidden]) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Electric wheelchairs are allowed to "hurtle" about restricted to
4mph. Mobility scooters are allowed to "hurtle" about at up to 8mph,
but not on the pavement.

Quoted message said:

You've read far too much into my use of the word "hurtle". The point
I was making really was that one form of electric transport is quite
happily going about its business, whilst another is being deliberately
obstructed by obsolete laws.

Sorry, Paul, but you have it the wrong way round.

Electric vehicles aren't being picked on - mechanically powered vehicles
_of all kinds_ are legally restricted from being used in public, unless
they meet expressly stated criteria. I don't think that's an "out of date"
law - I think that's a necessity!

Those regs happen to include the following exclusions :-
<4mph max, electric mobility aids are permitted on the pavement.
<8mph max, electric mobility aids are expressly permitted on the road for
people without driving licences. Likewise, electrically assisted bicycles
of <(whatever) power are expressly permitted on the road.

_Anything_ else has to meet whichever appropriate corner of Construction &
Use regs and be registered, together with the appropriate driving
licence/insurance/MOT/VED etc.

Hence electric and petrol mini motos, kid's scooters, go-karts etc etc etc
can't be used, as they haven't a hope in hell of meeting existing C&U. If
there's some (unlikely...) case that they're actually sensible transport
and useful, then C&U can be modified to fit 'em - C&U is _constantly_ being
updated.

This is, I'd suggest - and I'm sure it'd be agreed here of all places - A
Good Thing.

If the Segway is going to be used legally in public then it needs to meet
those regs, or the manufacturers need to lobby for a section of C&U regs
which it DOES fit.

Paul Boyd said:

For a start, all laws created before, say 1950, should be scrapped, in
my opinion, and if necessary new, more appropriate laws put in their
place, but decided by common sense and not mindless bureaucracy. I can
dream on, I suppose.

[censored] backwards IMHO.

Haven't we seen a period of frenzied lawmaking under TB's stewardship?
Do we sleep safer at night, knowing that if some bugger decides to
impersonate a traffic warden at you, you can jolly well summon the
scuffers and see the miscreant dragged away in chains?

All the big importants stuff's been legislated to a T for years. All
we seem to get now is a drip-drip-drip of sops to the red-tops: Bad
laws made in haste and then applied as widely as possible by the
brutal minions of the law.

It might be nice to one day clear the junk out of the attic of ancient
law, but at the mo', the rug in the living room of recent legislation
is heaped with festering turds.