John Kerry: Nice wheels

George W. Bush was smart enough to get himself elected
president.
Q.E.D.

You probably think Al Gore, another scion of a prominent
political family and who like GWB is Harvard educated is
"smarter" than GWB. But if Gore's so smart, why couldn't he
carry his own home state in the 2000 election? For all the
whining about the Florida situation, if Gore had only won
his home state, he'd be president. If you aren't smart
enough to carry your own home state, you don't deserve to be
president.

(JP) said:

There's no question that Bush could not have gotten into
Yale based on his own accomplishments. He's a dumbass.

Do you have any idea how hopelessly naive it makes you look
to say that a man who has achieved the most important and
powerful position in the world is a "dumbass"?

You mainstream types are so predictable - got the network
mantra down to a tee. ;-)

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of
the $695 ti frame

Tom Sherman said:

JP said:

Mark Hickey <[email hidden]> wrote ...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Think of the uproar you would be making today had the
shoe been on the other foot (Bush losing Florida by a few
hundred votes), and Bush had succeeded in changing the
election laws AFTER the voting took place, to use
unprecedented and ambiguous standards to "re-count" the
ballots to his advantage. You know, like Gore wanted.
Heh. Your knickers would be so twisted you wouldn't be
able to inhale. ;-)

Let's not forget that the Florida circuit judge (a
Democrat, BTW) agreed with the majority in the Supreme
Court that the counting had been done properly (and
properly and properly and...)?

This is a complete load of [censored]. I could go on for
several thousand words but in a nutshell these are
the facts:

1. Many legal votes under existing FL law were *never*
counted.

Citation?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2. Many illegal votes under existing FL law *were*
counted when they came from Bush-leaning counties, and
were discarded if they came from Gore counties.

Nonsense. You're saying that Democrats conspired against
Gore. Heh heh heh.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

3. Many FL counties did not recount as required by FL law
but simply recertified the first count.

Citation?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

4. The worst error rates were not on the punched ballots
as most people believe, they were the optical-scanned
ballots. Bush counties had overvote error-feedback
turned on, Gore counties generally had the same
protection turned off. Not surprisingly, the counties
with the overvote protection turned on had low error
rates and those with it turned off had the highest
error rates.
5. The SCOTUS did not say the votes had been counted
properly, it said that the recounting procedure was
not consistent from county to county therefore you
should just quit trying, an argument so absurd that no
justice had the courage to put his or her name on the
written decision as the author.

Fact is, all the counties had procedures, which they
followed. Those procedures existed prior to the election -
you'd be turning purple had Bush "come from behind" by
changing those procedures AFTER the election. Don't even try
to deny it (I notice you didn't comment on that aspect of my
previous post).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The stuff about "counted and counted" is a lie, but one
that most of the US public believe is true. If all the
legal votes in FL had been counted and all the illegal
votes discarded, Gore would have won Florida. And that's
not an opinion, that's a fact.

Not true. Read up on the recount - only by counting votes in
"creative new ways" were the independent examiners able to
come up with a scenario in which Gore might have won. The
fact that no one counted votes that way previously is all
you have to know about how "legal" that would have been.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's also a fact that the Bush 2000 campaign was recently
fined for illegal funding of the FL recount effort. Maybe
if they had not had all that illegal money (several times
what was available to the Gore campaign) they would not
have been in a position to hide the truth from the
American people when it could have counted.

You got that from AlGoreConspiracy.com, right? LOL.

Quoted message said:

To add to the above, there was the effort made to illegally
prevent as many people as possible from traditionally
Democratic voting districts. Secretary of State Harris and
ChoicePoint removed thousands of potential voters for
felony convictions they did not have.

There were errors in the roles, and it wasn't centered in
"traditionally Democratic voting districts", although it's
absolutely true that most felons vote Democrat. Heh.

Quoted message said:

Additionally, the rate of rejected/spoiled ballots was much
higher in traditionally Democratic voting precincts than in
traditionally Republican voting precincts.

You're right - people in traditionally Republican
voting precints can follow directions better. That's
not in question.

Quoted message said:

Face it, the 2000 Florida election was stolen for Shrub by
his brother's political appointees, and the US Supreme
Court approved the theft on a purely partisan basis.

Face it - Gore lost (and lost, and lost). You guys are SUCH
sore losers. Again - if the scenario was exactly opposite,
and Bush had gotten the methodology to interpret votes
changed AFTER the election to eke out a win by counting
overvotes and dimpled chads and other abberations, you'd be
inconsolable. Go ahead and try to deny that. You can't, but
that doesn't stop you from thinking it would be "justice" if
YOUR guy did it. LOL.

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of
the $695 ti frame

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

...Additionally, the rate of rejected/spoiled ballots was
much higher in traditionally Democratic voting precincts
than in traditionally Republican voting precincts.

Right. This goes along with what I was saying about
turning off overvote protection on the optical-scan voting
machines in counties that tended toward Gore. I don't know
that this was ever shown to have happened at the precinct
level, though.

Having downloaded the entire NORC results and spent some
time sifting through the data myself, though, you are
absolutely right- when you came across a precinct with a
particularly high error rate, it was always Gore's.

There is also some evidence that votes were manufactured
for Bush when it turned out how close things were going to
be. In Bush counties absentee optical-scan ballots that
would not scan were copied onto new ballots. This from the
same people who were screaming about counting votes with
hanging chads.

In my opinion, after the Voting Rights Act was passed, the
South had to come up with more subtle ways of
disenfranchising African-American voters; in Florida it
definitely made the difference in a presidential election.

JP

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Jp
Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

...Additionally, the rate of rejected/spoiled ballots was
much higher in traditionally Democratic voting precincts
than in traditionally Republican voting precincts.

Right. This goes along with what I was saying about
turning off overvote protection on the optical-scan voting
machines in counties that tended toward Gore. I don't know
that this was ever shown to have happened at the precinct
level, though.

Having downloaded the entire NORC results and spent some
time sifting through the data myself, though, you are
absolutely right- when you came across a precinct with a
particularly high error rate, it was always Gore's.

There is also some evidence that votes were manufactured
for Bush when it turned out how close things were going to
be. In Bush counties absentee optical-scan ballots that
would not scan were copied onto new ballots. This from the
same people who were screaming about counting votes with
hanging chads.

In my opinion, after the Voting Rights Act was passed, the
South had to come up with more subtle ways of
disenfranchising African-American voters; in Florida it
definitely made the difference in a presidential election.

JP

Take your non-bicycle tripe elsewhere. The rules and laws in effect at that time were followed. Move on.

Weisse Luft <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Oh, so we know about Valerie Plame? CIA deep cover agents
are known only to themselves and their handlers. Even the
DD of the CIA does not know who is deep cover. Nor does he
need to know. Ms. Plame's cover was blown long before
Novack et al made an issue of it and it was released by
her husband.

You don't know what you are talking about, and that's
putting it
mildly. Basically, every single thing you said in the above
paragraph is wrong.

JP

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Weisse Luft usenet- said:

This thread is fraught with errors in logic. Please see
this site to learn about these errors and become better
writers:

nizkor.orgfallaciesOpen ↗

Dear Mr. Spock,

I fear that logic is not the issue in this thread. You
might as well suggest that people writing love-letters pay
closer attention to practical matters.

Lewis Carroll

Dear Mr. Carroll,

I am a big fan of yours. I studied logic based on your
texts. Your methodology, that helped me to learn to sift
through the fantastic to see the truth, is particularly
apropos to these strange times. I owe a lot to you, and
would just like to thank you for everything.

Warmest regards, JP

Mark Hickey said:

... Face it - Gore lost (and lost, and lost). You guys are
SUCH sore losers. Again - if the scenario was exactly
opposite, and Bush had gotten the methodology to interpret
votes changed AFTER the election to eke out a win by
counting overvotes and dimpled chads and other
abberations, you'd be inconsolable. Go ahead and try to
deny that. You can't, but that doesn't stop you from
thinking it would be "justice" if YOUR guy did it. LOL.

Face it - if Bush II truly believed in democracy, he would
have conceded the election since he clearly lost the
popular vote.

--
Tom Sherman – Quad City Area

Weisse Luft <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

This thread is fraught with errors in logic. Please see
this site to learn about these errors and become better
writers:

Perhaps, instead of talking out your rear, you would like to
point out some specifics. And since you are so good at this
stuff, it would be very instructive for the rest of us fools
if you could identify the particular type of logical fallicy
that you think is at issue in each case.

Go for it. I'll get as formal as you dare, but here's a
warning: it is very difficult to reduce the practice of
politics to the black and white of predicate logic.

In general it's not very hard to peg the logical fallacies
of the Bush administration, though- they're a bunch of
liars. Using a logical fallacy out of ignorance is just
ignorance, but using them knowingly to deceive the public on
issues of life and death is arguably a high crime.

JP

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Jp
Weisse Luft <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

This thread is fraught with errors in logic. Please see
this site to learn about these errors and become better
writers:

Perhaps, instead of talking out your rear, you would like to
point out some specifics. And since you are so good at this
stuff, it would be very instructive for the rest of us fools
if you could identify the particular type of logical fallicy
that you think is at issue in each case.

Go for it. I'll get as formal as you dare, but here's a
warning: it is very difficult to reduce the practice of
politics to the black and white of predicate logic.

In general it's not very hard to peg the logical fallacies
of the Bush administration, though- they're a bunch of
liars. Using a logical fallacy out of ignorance is just
ignorance, but using them knowingly to deceive the public on
issues of life and death is arguably a high crime.

JP

Again, Take your non-bicycle tripe elsewhere. Today's conclusion of the Commission of 9-11 was so misreported in the major media its no wonder you believe the things you espouse. Yellow journalism is your fodder and this perversion pivots on logical error. Your brainwashing is non-reversible. Argueing with you is pointless for you will only bring me down to your level and pummel me with your vast experience in the trenches of sensationalism.

You are not worth any more.

On 17 Jun 2004 17:57:16 -0700,

(JP) said:

[email hidden] wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Weisse Luft usenet- said:

This thread is fraught with errors in logic. Please see
this site to learn about these errors and become better
writers:

nizkor.orgfallaciesOpen ↗

Dear Mr. Spock,

I fear that logic is not the issue in this thread. You
might as well suggest that people writing love-letters
pay closer attention to practical matters.

Lewis Carroll

Dear Mr. Carroll,

I am a big fan of yours. I studied logic based on your
texts. Your methodology, that helped me to learn to sift
through the fantastic to see the truth, is particularly
apropos to these strange times. I owe a lot to you, and
would just like to thank you for everything.

Warmest regards, JP

Dear JP,

Hey, whatever works here in wonderland . . .

Beware of the boojum,

C.L. Dodgson

Tom Sherman said:

Mark Hickey said:

Face it - Gore lost (and lost, and lost). You guys are
SUCH sore losers. Again - if the scenario was exactly
opposite, and Bush had gotten the methodology to
interpret votes changed AFTER the election to eke out a
win by counting overvotes and dimpled chads and other
abberations, you'd be inconsolable. Go ahead and try to
deny that. You can't, but that doesn't stop you from
thinking it would be "justice" if YOUR guy did it. LOL.

Face it - if Bush II truly believed in democracy, he would
have conceded the election since he clearly lost the
popular vote.

Ain't the first time the candidate with the most votes
overall lost... that's the way it goes with our system of
electoral college. OTOH, can you imagine trying to reconcile
a NATIONAL recount - heck, just getting through all the dead
people who vote in Chicago would take weeks!

Another thing to consider - lots of people in a lot of the
"middle states" who are interested only in voting in the
presidential race probably didn't bother because a) it's a
long way from the farm to the polling place and b) they knew
their state was already in the bag for Bush. I wonder how
many more would turn out (and this goes for states like New
York as well, only for the Democrats) if it really was a
national "popular vote".

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of
the $695 ti frame

Weisse Luft <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Jp said:

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<2jc8foFv7tt0U1@uni- berlin.de>...

Quoted message said:

...Additionally, the rate of rejected/spoiled
ballots was much higher in traditionally Democratic
voting precincts than in traditionally Republican
voting precincts.

Right. This goes along with what I was saying about
turning off overvote protection on the optical-scan
voting machines in counties that tended toward Gore. I
don't know that this was ever shown to have happened
at the precinct level, though. Having downloaded the
entire NORC results and spent some time sifting
through the data myself, though, you are absolutely
right- when you came across a precinct with a
particularly high error rate, it was always Gore's.
There is also some evidence that votes were
manufactured for Bush when it turned out how close
things were going to be. In Bush counties absentee optical-
scan ballots that would not scan were copied onto new
ballots. This from the same people who were screaming
about counting votes with hanging chads. In my
opinion, after the Voting Rights Act was passed, the
South had to come up with more subtle ways of
disenfranchising African-American voters; in Florida
it definitely made the difference in a presidential
election. JP

Take your non-bicycle tripe elsewhere. The rules and laws
in effect at that time were followed. Move on.

No they weren't, and that's a fact, Jack.

JP

Weisse Luft <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Again, Take your non-bicycle tripe elsewhere. Today's
conclusion of the Commission of 9-11 was so misreported in
the major media its no wonder you believe the things you
espouse. Yellow journalism is your fodder and this
perversion pivots on logical error. Your brainwashing is
non- reversible. Argueing with you is pointless for you
will only bring me down to your level and pummel me with
your vast experience in the trenches of sensationalism.

You are not worth any more.

Ouch.

JP