joggers

On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:41:33 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden] (Steven M.

O'Neill) said:

You're afraid to walk at night -- therefore you have been successfully terrorized into a certain
behavior.

No dumbass - I never said I no longer walked at night - I said that I didn't walk on the asphalt
sidewalks.If I had to walk on the asphalt, I would, but there are other options. FWIW, even the
grass is more even, so I pretty much walk everyewhere but on the asphalt.

You have a serious problem in reading comprehension. You'll fit in well here. You also apparently
have a vocabulary issue, because 'terrorists' would be a stretch even with your logic.

Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels...

OP said:

Quoted message said:

Wass'up up wi' dat? First of all wouldn't minimal courtesy require the jogger to cede the
lane seeing as they must be aware the area was intended for bikes. I now if I were in a
similar situation In an area marked as pedestrian the very least I would to would be to cede
right of way.

Luigi de Guzman said:

That's because your'e a pedestrian and a cyclist. The jogger is a pedestrian, probably not a
cyclist, and probably also a motorist. He can ride on the edge of the road--no cars there. But a
bicycle? In traffic? unthinkable! The bike lanes are probably used so seldom that they figure they
are just rightfully using abandoned space...

Quoted message said:

Maybe it's worth slowing down, downshifting, and explaining the rules of the road politely?

You know, until I saw the word "pedestrian" above, it hadn't occurred to me, but...isn't it our
responsibility as bicyclists to yield to pedestrians? This sounds like something for which there is
probably existing law, and it probably says that pedestrians have right of way; unless it says that
they must use sidewalks when practicable -- and the argument could be made that it's NOT practicable
to jog or run on a sidewalk full of walking pedestrians and baby carriages and dogs and such.

I suspect that the proper action, legally and courteously, would be to allow them to keep the lane
while you merge into the next lane (the automotive lane, as it were).

Disclaimer: I COULD BE WRONG! I'm guessing here.

This would seem to fall under the "Bicyclists are victims of oppression, but never oppressors
themselves" doctrine.
--
Rick "Blasphemer" Onanian

"loki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't mean to start a cross-sport war but I've had a second incident
involving joggers. Last fall I was eastbound on College Ave - a two lane
city street with bike lanes. Coming the other way was a gaggle of female,

I

Quoted message said:

assume frosh from the University. They were jogging in the bike lane on there left/ my right and
they did not even cede the lane but forced me to swing wide around them. The bike lane is well
marked including the little universal bike symbol for the illiterate. Now last week I came upon a

middle

Quoted message said:

aged lone male jogger along the same area, same situation

Wass'up up wi' dat? First of all wouldn't minimal courtesy require the jogger to cede the
lane seeing as they must be aware the area was intended for bikes. I now if I were in a
similar situation In an area marked as pedestrian the very least I would to would be to cede
right of way.

It's far easier for a bike to cross a white line than a jogger to jump up onto a grass verge then
hop back to the bike lane.

"loki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Teresa Bippert-Plymate" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]... [...]

Quoted message said:

I'm a runner and a cyclist. And you're right- they should have ceded the bike lane to you. I do
when I run in a bike lane. The reason I run in a bike lane, when I do (which is rarely), is
because there is no good alternative. I won't run on the local sidewalks (uneven and running on
concrete is too hard on the joints).

I can understand that. Would a jogger prefer grass though?Were I a jogger

I

Quoted message said:

think that running on the grass strip would be preferred. Though maybe joggers might consider that
_too_ soft. But as I said; this stretch of sidewalk was asphalt and there was very little traffic
thanks to the time

of

Quoted message said:

day.

A fully groomed, even, nonrutted grass strip with no sprinklers would draw all sorts of runners.
However I have only seen one field closely resembling this. I gave up soccer after three seasons of
stepping in potholes and straining knees or ankles. For long distance running I'm sure pavement
works better than the parking strip grass.

Curtis L. Russell said:

(Steven M. O'Neill) said:

You're afraid to walk at night -- therefore you have been successfully terrorized into a certain
behavior.

No dumbass - I never said I no longer walked at night - I said that I didn't walk on the asphalt
sidewalks.If I had to walk on the asphalt, I would, but there are other options. FWIW, even the
grass is more even, so I pretty much walk everyewhere but on the asphalt.

Now I see, peanut-brain. But your original message wasn't clear.

My original point still stands -- that's it's shameful that pedestrians are so poorly accomodated.

Quoted message said:

You have a serious problem in reading comprehension. You'll fit in well here. You also apparently
have a vocabulary issue, because 'terrorists' would be a stretch even with your logic.

Don't you know that "terrorist" is a term that is arbitrarily defined term, whose meaning is
whatever the speaker wishes it to mean?

And look up "hyperbole" while you're at it.

--
Steven O'Neill [email hidden]

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

"loki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't mean to start a cross-sport war but I've had a second incident
involving joggers. Last fall I was eastbound on College Ave - a two lane
city street with bike lanes. Coming the other way was a gaggle of female,

I

Quoted message said:

assume frosh from the University. They were jogging in the bike lane on there left/ my right
and they did not even cede the lane but forced me to swing wide around them. The bike lane is
well marked including the little universal bike symbol for the illiterate. Now last week I came
upon a

middle

Quoted message said:

aged lone male jogger along the same area, same situation

Wass'up up wi' dat? First of all wouldn't minimal courtesy require the jogger to cede the
lane seeing as they must be aware the area was intended for bikes. I now if I were in a
similar situation In an area marked as pedestrian the very least I would to would be to cede
right of way.

It's far easier for a bike to cross a white line than a jogger to jump up onto a grass verge then
hop back to the bike lane.

As long as there's not traffic on the other side of that white line. I normally slide over into the
lane when I meet joggers, but it's not always possible. However, the joggers around here usually
(not always) see such situations coming, and slide over right to the edge of the pavement, giving me
room to pass them while still staying out of the traffic lane.

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

In article <[email hidden]>,

loki said:

I don't mean to start a cross-sport war but I've had a second incident involving joggers. Last
fall I was eastbound on College Ave - a two lane city street with bike lanes. Coming the other
way was a gaggle of female, I assume frosh from the University. They were jogging in the bike
lane on there left/ my right and they did not even cede the lane but forced me to swing wide
around them. The bike lane is well marked including the little universal bike symbol for the
illiterate. Now last week I came upon a middle aged lone male jogger along the same area, same
situation

Wass'up up wi' dat? First of all wouldn't minimal courtesy require the jogger to cede the
lane seeing as they must be aware the area was intended for bikes. I now if I were in a
similar situation In an area marked as pedestrian the very least I would to would be to cede
right of way.

Second; why do they prefer the bike lane? This stretch of road not only has a sidewalk but an
asphalt sidewalk with a wide strip of grass separating it from the road. I can't imagine what
benefit the road would have for a jogger over the sidewalk or grass.

I both run and bike, and I ALWAYS run in the street even if there is a sidewalk, but on the
left side facing traffic if practical. I always run on the edge, where a cyclist shouldn't be
riding anyway.

The big reason for running in the street is a blacktop road is softer than a concrete sidewalk.
Might be hard to believe, but running on concrete does more damage to your joints. The street is
also smoother & not broken up like sidwalks tend to be. I don't like running on grass because it's
too easy to turn an ankle.

[email hidden] (amh) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>... (snip)>

Quoted message said:

Runners are much much safer running while facing traffic. At least here in Queens, NYC runners are
advised to run facing traffic.

Agreed. I think the issue was not the direction they were running, but the fact that they blocked
the whole bike lane, and refused to cede any ground to the cyclist.

Around here, no bike lanes and few sidewalks. I generally see runners only in ones or twos, running
against traffic at the side of the narrow roads, and almost all are good about giving cyclists
enough room to pass. I try to give them enough room too, but not if it means swerving in front of
cars. When I have occasionally had problems is with large groups, as described by the OP. To be fair
though, I've occasionally seen road-hogging behavior by large groups of cyclists too. Something
about the pack mentality must reduce consideration for others.

Daniel Ballagh said:

How about yelling out (calling out) that your approaching on their left? I'm of course assuming
that your both going in right direction on the right side of the road.

I've always preferred, "My BRAKES!!! MY BRAKES!!!!!

WHAT HAPPENED TO MY BRAKES????!!??

HOOOOOLLLLYYYY SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT!!!!?

That usually gets their attention and clears the way except for the little brown bits on
the pavement.

On 2 Mar 2004 17:47:28 -0800, [email hidden] (Kaputnik)

Quoted message said:

I think the issue was not the direction they were running, but the fact that they blocked the
whole bike lane, and refused to cede any ground to the cyclist.

There's a "pecking order" out on the road.

Cyclists meeting oncoming cars in the opposite lane fix the drivers with a steely-eyed glare,
because they're morally superior to the driver; they're on a bike, therefore they're better than
the driver.

Joggers are better than cyclists, morally superior. Just ask them.

They don't HAVE to give way. What they're doing is better than cycling. Again, just ask them.

On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 22:22:14 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden] (Steven M.

O'Neill) said:

And look up "hyperbole" while you're at it.

best used by someone that has the literary skills to use it properly. And terrorism is not an
appropriate term to use even then. Your comments are essentially confirmation that the sticker on
your car says, "Can't read? Blame a teacher."

Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels...

Curtis L. Russell said:

(Steven M. O'Neill) said:

And look up "hyperbole" while you're at it.

best used by someone that has the literary skills to use it properly. And terrorism is not an
appropriate term to use even then. Your comments are essentially confirmation that the sticker on
your car says, "Can't read? Blame a teacher."

Sorry, I don't have a car, sunshine.

--
Steven O'Neill [email hidden]

[email hidden] (Tom Keats) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, "loki"

Quoted message said:

Second; why do they prefer the bike lane? This stretch of road not only has a sidewalk but an
asphalt sidewalk with a wide strip of grass separating it from the road. I can't imagine what
benefit the road would have for a jogger over the sidewalk or grass.

Sometimes I encounter joggers on some streets here. I don't mind 'em; at least they stick to their
lines. But I do wish certain of 'em would wear something reflective at night.

It's the wrong-way riders that really get my goat.

Especially the ones wearing black clothes and with no lights or reflectors of any kind on their
bikes at all 🙂

"M. Barbee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

along a street with a bike lane. I've run into joggers running in the bike lane in the wrong
direction regularly in the evening after 6 in the dark. I must admit being a bit annoyed by this,
but I think they are a lot less

Which way do you consider to be the wrong way? The correct place for a pedestrian to be on the
road is the left side (assuming a right-side for vehicles locale) facing traffic. This is because
since a pedestrian is more maneuverable than other traffic if traffic is coming towards them they
can avoid the vehicle by sidestepping. I feel far more comfortable running on the road toward
traffic because I can SEE what is coming towards me and move to avoid. I'm never going to assume
they would avoid me.

Quoted message said:

dangerous than the cars on the road. I'm already riding towards the outside of the bike lane to
reduce the chance of being doored. Further, I regularly have to merge into the main lanes to get
around vehicles standing in the bike lane or people lingering at their cars in the bike lane.
Although the

As a cyclist I usually ring my bell at these people in advance and the vast majority will step off
the roadway or squeeze closer to their car etc. Some of course do nothing and I either need to merge
if its safe or brake and stop (annoying) Joggers running towards a cyclist will usually run around
because they see them, joggers running in the same direction may need to be alerted if they don't
hear you coming.

Tanya crazybikerchick.blogspot.comcrazybikerchick.blogspot.comOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Tanya) said:

Quoted message said:

It's the wrong-way riders that really get my goat.

Especially the ones wearing black clothes and with no lights or reflectors of any kind on their
bikes at all 🙂

Most especially, the ones suddenly encountered while going around a corner. And the ones
shortcutting/bypassing our little traffic circle islands -- their movements are so similar to those
large flying bugs that like to kamikaze head-on into yer helmet.

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
[point] bc [point] ca