Jeanson...oops

Dan Connelly d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@i_e_e_e.o_r_g said:

What spike? If she lives in the thing, her hematocrit is probably on the border all the time.
There's natural fluctutions. Have you ever had yours tested? Mine's been all over the place, from
around 38 to 43.

But according to what she said in an interview, she's been living in it since she was 16.

Davey smells a rat.

--
le vent a Dos

Davey Crockett

Racer Y- Vaughters grew up in CO and has extensive documentation, and said waiver to allow him to
race, that shows his high Hct to be genuine. He's also raced throughout Europe and never tested
positive! Moreover, if you ever read the news you'd have noticed that Jeanson rarely races where
drug testing takes place.

Does that mean she's a doper? Perhaps, or maybe its just a coincidence. Either way, you're jumping
to conclusions in both cases.

CH

Quoted message said:

If Jeanson's so-called high hematocrit limit indicates anything, it sure seems funny why this same
chatter wouldn't be occurring about Jonathan Vaughters, who also is over the 50% limit for men.

And if it is indicative of doping, then she must be on dope throughout the year since she wins
throughout the year. And she must be on the dope for the past 3 years as well. Yet she never
tested positive once? Surely if she were doping at a level and frequency that was so performancing
enhancing as to have her dominate races, it would be extremely unlikely she never failed a dope
test once.

Just exactly what dope would she be on that has such a marked effect, yet doesn't result in a
positive test?

If anything, all this means is Jeanson's people should have sought a waiver for a high hematocrit
like Vaughters did. Outside of that, it means nothing else.

It's a good thing there's no such chatter about riders such as Amber Neben.

Racer X

Kurgan Gringioni said:

"Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

No sanction, but this is still not good:

cyclingnews.comnewsOpen ↗

Ms. Jeanson rarely races against the very best world class competition.

For years the whispering amongst her competitors is there is a reason why: disparity in doping
controls at the biggest UCI races vs. most of the N. American circuit.

Pure speculation of course, since no one has first-hand knowledge, but this will definitely
serve to 'enhance' the chatter.

When I was in the hospital 2 years ago my Nephrologist came up to me and said "Since you are a pro
cyclist...." (har!..har!...) "Are you taking performance drugs??"

She thought that because my hematocrit was 56...........

On 10/11/03 4:53 PM, in article [email hidden], "Dan Connelly"

d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@i_e_e_e.o_r_g said:

What spike? If she lives in the thing, her hematocrit is probably on the border all the time.
There's natural fluctutions. Have you ever had yours tested? Mine's been all over the place, from
around 38 to 43.

Quoted message said:

What a travesty that a woman who has won as many races as she has, has only been tested once in
competition (this time). I agree with the assumption that she juices because she is basically a
North American racer and never really races the "big girls" of the world to avoid detection. I
also thought that tents don't give you that much of a spike. Where is Wallace at? Dave

So what? There's no spike. If you keep sleeping in a tent, your hematocrit goes high, and
stays there.

She said she's never been tested before (hard to believe, as she won Junior world championships, but
maybe she misspoke).

Dan

Davey Crockett said:

Dan Connelly d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@i_e_e_e.o_r_g said:

What spike? If she lives in the thing, her hematocrit is probably on the border all the time.
There's natural fluctutions. Have you ever had yours tested? Mine's been all over the place, from
around 38 to 43.

But according to what she said in an interview, she's been living in it since she was 16.

Davey smells a rat.

Steven Woo said:

Jeff Jones' jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com said:

No sanction, but this is still not good:

cyclingnews.comnewsOpen ↗

Jeff

Too early to say no sanction. They have to do the 2nd round of blood doping drugs tests now IIRC.

Hmmm...
<groups.google.co.nzgroupsOpen ↗

1. They didn't have an EPO test in 1998. Festina riders were never tested for EPO. I bet you
Jeanson's EPO test comes back negative.

2. What Festina riders were CONSISTENTLY as successful as Jeanson has been for such a long period
of time? She would have to have the best
Dr. Mabuse program in the world to have such good results for that long without ever having tested
positive ONCE for anything (including this time).

Consider your riddle solved.

Racer X

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

RACER X said:

Surely if she were doping at a level and frequency that was so performancing enhancing as to have
her dominate races, it would be extremely unlikely she never failed a dope test once.

Right, I mean those Festina guys were doping and got caught in tests right?

JT
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1. So what does having a waiver have to do with anything? Half the European peloton has a waiver
from their doctors claiming they are asthmatics. Vaughters also artifically elevates his
hematocrit. He lives at altitude in Colorado. I don't know why he qualifies for a medical waiver
and someone who uses an altitude tent doesn't.

2. How many times has Jeanson been tested, you ask? Well, she has more UCI points than any US rider.
Why don't you ask the UCI how many time she's been tested at their races? We know she was tested
at the same race that Neben was found to be positive (Montreal World Cup). And we know what
Jeanson's results were for that race (negative).

3. As to your last question about why Neben got 6 months and Moninger got 12 months: Moninger should
ask the USADA that very question and see what their response is.

Racer X

Andy Coggan said:

"RACER X" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If Jeanson's so-called high hematocrit limit indicates anything, it sure

seems

Quoted message said:

funny why this same chatter wouldn't be occurring about Jonathan

Vaughters,

Quoted message said:

who also is over the 50% limit for men.

Because Vaughters has a waiver?

Quoted message said:

And if it is indicative of doping, then she must be on dope throughout the year since she wins
throughout the year. And she must be on the dope for

the

Quoted message said:

past 3 years as well. Yet she never tested positive once? Surely if she

were

Quoted message said:

doping at a level and frequency that was so performancing enhancing as to

have

Quoted message said:

her dominate races, it would be extremely unlikely she never failed a dope test once.

How many times has she been tested?

Quoted message said:

Just exactly what dope would she be on that has such a marked effect, yet doesn't result in a
positive test?

If anything, all this means is Jeanson's people should have sought a

waiver

Quoted message said:

for a high hematocrit like Vaughters did. Outside of that, it means

nothing

Quoted message said:

else.

It's a good thing there's no such chatter about riders such as Amber

Neben.

You want chatter? Okay, how about this: why did Neben only get a 6 month suspension (plus 18
months probation), while Moninger got a full year?

Andy Coggan

Hematocrit testing isn't done at North American races because it doesn't prove anything (ask
Jonathan Vaughters, who all of you apparently do not have a problem with racing at 54%
hematocrit since he has a "doctor's note" saying "It's ok, Jonny can go to school and play with
the other kids"😉.

Jeanson has more UCI points than any US rider. Doesn't the UCI test racers in its races? She can
only get UCI points in UCI races.

Based on your logic, Kurg, your questions would have to just as equally apply to all the US women
racers too, no? And if that's the case, what's your point about Jeanson?

Racer X

Kurgan Gringioni said:

"RACER X" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If Jeanson's so-called high hematocrit limit indicates anything, it sure

seems

Quoted message said:

funny why this same chatter wouldn't be occurring about Jonathan Vaughters, who also is over the
50% limit for men.

And if it is indicative of doping, then she must be on dope throughout the year since she wins
throughout the year. And she must be on the dope for

the

Quoted message said:

past 3 years as well. Yet she never tested positive once? Surely if she

were

Quoted message said:

doping at a level and frequency that was so performancing enhancing as to

have

Quoted message said:

her dominate races, it would be extremely unlikely she never failed a dope test once.

Moron -

Goddamm, you are stupid. Go reread my post.

Then consider that they don't do hematocrit tests at North American races (or any doping control
at all at most of them).

Capiche?

Jeanson's hematocrit is also "genuine." She increases hers in an altitude tent, and Vaughters
chooses to live at altitude. Both are artificial means of increasing one's hematocrit.

As for your accusation that Jeanson "rarely races where drug testing takes place" that's pretty
funny. Let's see, she has more UCI points than any female US racer. (BTW, your accusation would also
appear to implicate 95% of the US riders as well).

Where did she get all her UCI points, Chris? Doesn't the UCI test at their races?

If Jeanson had 0 UCI points, then maybe you could convince me there was some kind of avoidance
strategy going on, but she's ranked higher than the top US riders (including the one US rider who
you failed to mention who recently tested positive at a race Jeanson ALSO raced and tested
negative at).

It seems strange to me that you mention the name of a racer who tested negative in a race (Montreal)
where an American tested positive, and yet you only make innuendo against the non-American rider who
tested negative, but say nothing about the American rider who actually tested positive.

Let me guess, Chris, you are an American?

Racer X

chris said:

Racer Y- Vaughters grew up in CO and has extensive documentation, and said waiver to allow him to
race, that shows his high Hct to be genuine. He's also raced throughout Europe and never tested
positive! Moreover, if you ever read the news you'd have noticed that Jeanson rarely races where
drug testing takes place.

Does that mean she's a doper? Perhaps, or maybe its just a coincidence. Either way, you're jumping
to conclusions in both cases.

CH

Quoted message said:

If Jeanson's so-called high hematocrit limit indicates anything, it sure seems funny why this
same chatter wouldn't be occurring about Jonathan Vaughters, who also is over the 50% limit
for men.

And if it is indicative of doping, then she must be on dope throughout the year since she wins
throughout the year. And she must be on the dope for the past 3 years as well. Yet she never
tested positive once? Surely if she were doping at a level and frequency that was so
performancing enhancing as to have her dominate races, it would be extremely unlikely she never
failed a dope test once.

Just exactly what dope would she be on that has such a marked effect, yet doesn't result in a
positive test?

If anything, all this means is Jeanson's people should have sought a waiver for a high
hematocrit like Vaughters did. Outside of that, it means nothing else.

It's a good thing there's no such chatter about riders such as Amber Neben.

Racer X

Kurgan Gringioni said:

"Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
> No sanction, but this is still not good:
>
> cyclingnews.comnewsOpen ↗

Ms. Jeanson rarely races against the very best world class competition.

For years the whispering amongst her competitors is there is a reason why: disparity in doping
controls at the biggest UCI races vs. most of the N. American circuit.

Pure speculation of course, since no one has first-hand knowledge, but this will definitely
serve to 'enhance' the chatter.

"RACER X" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hematocrit testing isn't done at North American races because it doesn't

prove

Quoted message said:

anything

Goddamm, you're a Moron -

Before hematocrit testing, riders were going up to 65%. The Italian racers' union *asked* the
UCI to test because of the risks a rider had to face if they wanted to continue on with a
successful career.

Hematocrit testing isn't done at North American races because of the expense (the promoters don't
want to pay for it).

Most of our races here don't generate enough revenue to justify the expense.

Quoted message said:

2. How many times has Jeanson been tested, you ask? Well, she has more UCI points than any US
rider. Why don't you ask the UCI how many time she's been tested at their races? We know she
was tested at the same race that Neben was found to be positive (Montreal World Cup).

by her own admission this was her first test in or out of competition, (see the text of her
interview.) What ever she said, I'm confused as are others I'm sure, as to why if true she's not
been tested prior.... I smell a fish.

And we know what Jeanson's results

Quoted message said:

were for that race (negative).

Fred Marx said:

Quoted message said:

2. How many times has Jeanson been tested, you ask? Well, she has more UCI points than any US
rider. Why don't you ask the UCI how many time she's been tested at their races? We know she
was tested at the same race that Neben was found to be positive (Montreal World Cup).

by her own admission this was her first test in or out of competition, (see the text of her
interview.)

I've quoted the text below. Obviously you haven't read it, since she states that it's not her first
blood test ...

Q: Is this your first test ever, and were you concerned going into the test that there might
be problems?

GJ: It's my first test IN COMPETITION [sls note - emphasis mine], it's not the first blood test I
ever had. I was confident coming into the competition.

R: Have you ever done any doping?

GJ: No.

S: How long have you been using the tent, and when was the last time you used it?

GJ: I've been using the tent since 1998, and I use it all the time.

T: Have you ever had tests done to see how much the tent raises levels?

GJ: It is effective. For me it is really effective, but I never was worried.

Everyone seems to be assuming this is her first-ever doping test ... I read the above quote to mean
that it's her first pre-race visit from the UCI vampires ...

Quoted message said:

What ever she said, I'm confused as are others I'm sure, as to why if true she's not been tested
prior.... I smell a fish.

And we know what Jeanson's results

Quoted message said:

were for that race (negative).

--
Steven L. Sheffield stevens at veloworks dot com veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net bellum
pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea aye tee why you ti
ay aitch aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you double-yew double-ewe
dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash

In article said:

Jeanson's hematocrit is also "genuine." She increases hers in an altitude tent, and Vaughters
chooses to live at altitude. Both are artificial means of increasing one's hematocrit.

How did a Euro Pro like Vaughters manage to "live at altitude" and race full-time in Europe?

FWIW, Jeannson spent the last month or so training (at altitude) in Arizona. Perhaps the effects of
the tent are magnified when used at 5-6000 feet elevation so her 'crit was higher than usual.

Very odd that she skipped SFGP when it was just a two-hour flight from where she was training.
Perhaps she didn't want to interrupt her "regimen".

-WG living and training at 300 feet with a 'crit of 47+.

Steven L. Sheffield said:

Fred Marx said:

Quoted message said:

2. How many times has Jeanson been tested, you ask? Well, she has more UCI points than any US
rider. Why don't you ask the UCI how many time she's been tested at their races? We know she
was tested at the same race that Neben was found to be positive (Montreal World Cup).

by her own admission this was her first test in or out of competition, (see the text of her
interview.)

my bad I should have linked here.

Quoted message said:

I've quoted the text below. Obviously you haven't read it, since she states that it's not her
first blood test ...

actually OBVIOUSLY I misread it. Nice intutitive leap Mr. Sheffield. I just love how easy it is to
assume people on the internet don't read things or make blind pronouncements. Please note this text
could be interpreted to mean that the organisation had no baseline testing, thus no clue (as I
interprete it) as to where her HCT actually was. That to me seems just plain dumb going into a UCI
event. as a matter of fact between the second line quoted and the last there seems to be a clear
contradiction. Does anyone else read it that way?

Quoted message said:

Q: When was the last time you were tested, out of competition?

GJ: *It's my first test.* (Emphasis mine..)

Q: To what do you attribute this reading?

GJ: I use a hypoxic tent.

Q: Is it possible for a tent to raise you level so high as to take you out of competition?

GJ: Yes it is possible, it's a very thin line - and if you are over the line by point one, you are
taken out of competition.

Q: Didn't the federation test the cyclists before the World Championships? Yuri : It's an
independent agency... it can happen any time anywhere - it's not up to us, that's how it works.

Q: Can we have the official result?

GJ: It's confidential.

Q: Is this your first test ever, and were you concerned going into the test that there might be
problems?

GJ: *It's my first test in competition, it's not the first blood test I ever had* (again emphasis
mine). I was confident coming into the competition.

"Steven Woo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jeff Jones' jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com said:

No sanction, but this is still not good:

cyclingnews.comnewsOpen ↗

Jeff

Too early to say no sanction. They have to do the 2nd round of blood doping drugs tests now IIRC.

True, that may have been a little premature.

Jeff

Dan Connelly said:

So what? There's no spike. If you keep sleeping in a tent, your hematocrit goes high, and
stays there.

This seems to suggest (without proof) that if you sleep in a tent there may be some variability in
Hct throughout the normal course of the day:
google.comgroupsOpen ↗

RACER X said:

2. What Festina riders were CONSISTENTLY as successful as Jeanson has been for such a long period
of time?

The depth of competition is lower in women's racing.

Quoted message said:

She would have to have the best
Dr. Mabuse program in the world to have such good results for that long without ever having tested
positive ONCE for anything (including this time).

Consider your riddle solved.

You are way, way naive.

JT
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Fred Marx said:

actually OBVIOUSLY I misread it. Nice intutitive leap Mr. Sheffield. I just love how easy it is to
assume people on the internet don't read things or make blind pronouncements.

When you say the opposite of somthing that is in writing, you should expect that. Don't rag on
Sheffield, just say "Oops, I misread it, sorry" and move on.

JT
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RACER X said:

Jeanson's hematocrit is also "genuine." She increases hers in an altitude tent, and Vaughters
chooses to live at altitude. Both are artificial means of increasing one's hematocrit.

It would be entirely inappropriate for the UCI to tell people living at altitute, especially those
born there (like Colombia or Colorada) that they have to move to compete. That's just wrong.

JT
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That's funny...I've been called a lot of things, but never, ever have I been called an (U.S) biased
American. Let me guess (and be just as simple minded and presumptuous), you're not American, but
think American's are arrogant idiots who publish bad research and attack any foreign rider because
they're better than Americans.

Unfortunately, you've jumped to conclusions; watch your step, though, you might jump right off the
side someday. I stand by what I said, because she does "rarely" race in major UCI races; rarely here
indicates that compared with the majority of women she at few races, like our U.S. women. I think
its pretty clear to most that she avoids these races (for whatever her reasons might be). However,
let's break this down to make this easy:

UCI ranking as of Oct. 5 1 Susanne Ljungskog (Swe) Bik-Powerplate 783.50 pts . 19 Jolanta
Polikeviciute (Ltu) Team 2002 Aurora RSM 175.00 20 Geneviève Jeanson (Can) Equipe Cycliste
Rona-Esker 168.00

So yes, that puts her ahead of U.S. women. Hey, but they didn't do [censored] at the Worlds and hardly
ever race outside the U.S., but most of them don't do [censored] here, either. The fact is, much of Saturn
is made up of foreigners. In either case, Jeanson has a lot of catching up to do in UCI points, so
your point is moot.

If you recall (probably not), she bailed on Plouay, excellent prep. UCI race with testing, a bad
time to take a pee and get busted?

She claims to use that tent, but we know they're not that effective. Besides, why would she want to
play it so close to the cut off? That's seems pretty foolish.

She didn't do [censored] in Montreal, and we weren't even talking about any other Americans, so why would
I mention them? You name names, and I'll discuss them as well.

Vaughters has...I don't even know why we're wasting out time talking about him, he doesn't even fit
in here. The guy has a waiver and has shown his high Hct is legit. You can't take EPO 12 month a
year for 4 or 5 years. Get over it here.

Sorry Racer, you failed to show me any compelling argument that I was biased towards Americans.
The fact is, I have been openly critical about American Cycling far more than European cycling
and the fact that suggest I have some bias would be insulting if I took anything you said with a
grain of salt.

To clarify here, I am NOT saying that Jeanson is a doper. I like her style of riding (alah Longo).
However, I do think there are a number of coincidences here and I also doubt her tent claim. RacerX
thinks we're all stupid Americans who prefer to bash foreign riders and ignore U.S. dopers. While,
he has failed to make any headway in convincing me that I'm proud to be an ugly biased American, he
has convinced me that HE doesn't have a clue.

CH