Jan NOT fat

Bill C said:

Every year we have the annual Jan's weight, rag on Jan thread. This
year when it looks like he's got his [censored] together, and so does the
team, we aren't having it.
[censored] I've got three solid German teams to cheer on all year, life is
good.
Go Jan!

I never liked the Jan-is-fat threads. So believe me when I say
that one reason we don't have the thread is that it may not
matter anymore. Jan has fallen short too many times to get
too excited about his prospects. It may just not be his turn.
I'd like to see him bring a real challenge, but can't really
believe it.

It would be historic though. The longest interval between Tour
wins was 10 years for Bartali 1938-1948, but of course that was
interrupted by the war, so there were only two Tours in between.
As far as I can tell the next longest interval was four years
(Anquetil 1957-61). If Jan could win, nine years after, it will be a
testament to something - though to what I don't exactly know.

Quoted message said:

Bill C said:

Every year we have the annual Jan's weight, rag on Jan thread. This
year when it looks like he's got his [censored] together, and so does the
team, we aren't having it.
[censored] I've got three solid German teams to cheer on all year, life is
good.
Go Jan!

I never liked the Jan-is-fat threads. So believe me when I say
that one reason we don't have the thread is that it may not
matter anymore. Jan has fallen short too many times to get
too excited about his prospects. It may just not be his turn.
I'd like to see him bring a real challenge, but can't really
believe it.

It would be historic though. The longest interval between Tour
wins was 10 years for Bartali 1938-1948, but of course that was
interrupted by the war, so there were only two Tours in between.
As far as I can tell the next longest interval was four years
(Anquetil 1957-61). If Jan could win, nine years after, it will be a
testament to something - though to what I don't exactly know.

Thanks for that Ben
But Jan is going to take the win this year since Lance is gone.
Go Jan! Telekom! T-Mobile!
And to be politcally incorrect:
Deutschland Uber Alles!
Bill C

what about longest gap between starts?? CdV?

Bill C said:

Every year we have the annual Jan's weight, rag on Jan thread. This
year when it looks like he's got his [censored] together, and so does the
team, we aren't having it.
[censored] I've got three solid German teams to cheer on all year, life is
good.
Go Jan!
Bill C

judging from the photos of the tmobile team lately, the only thing big
about jan is his hair! Instead of fat, whatever he's eating turns into
hair. He's pretty svelte, that's for sure. He'll probably give himself
the old bean-shave for the season, though.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Bill C said:

Every year we have the annual Jan's weight, rag on Jan thread. This
year when it looks like he's got his [censored] together, and so does the
team, we aren't having it.
[censored] I've got three solid German teams to cheer on all year, life is
good.
Go Jan!

I never liked the Jan-is-fat threads. So believe me when I say
that one reason we don't have the thread is that it may not
matter anymore. Jan has fallen short too many times to get
too excited about his prospects. It may just not be his turn.
I'd like to see him bring a real challenge, but can't really
believe it.

It would be historic though. The longest interval between Tour
wins was 10 years for Bartali 1938-1948, but of course that was
interrupted by the war, so there were only two Tours in between.
As far as I can tell the next longest interval was four years
(Anquetil 1957-61).

Philippe Thijs (1914-1920)

If Jan could win, nine years after, it will be a

Quoted message said:

testament to something - though to what I don't exactly know.

I he wins, Armstrong will be elated, because everybody will say: if
Armstrong had been there, etc.

Benjo

"crit PRO" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

what about longest gap between starts?? CdV?

Probably Rossignoli, who made his debut in 1904, rode his last Tour in 1927,
but was absent between 1909 and 1923.

Benjo

benjo maso said:

Quoted message said:

It would be historic though. The longest interval between Tour
wins was 10 years for Bartali 1938-1948, but of course that was
interrupted by the war, so there were only two Tours in between.
As far as I can tell the next longest interval was four years
(Anquetil 1957-61).

Philippe Thijs (1914-1920)

Ah, thanks Benjo, I did look this up but missed Thijs.
On looking at my list again, I see there was only one Tour
in between 1914 and 1920, a war also of course.
That's why I missed Thijs. So his case is similar to
Bartali's, while Anquetil nominally missed three chances
and then returned to win (four in a row, no less).

If Fignon had beaten Lemond in 1989 he would have gone
five years between victories (1984-1989).

I don't know the answer to Crit Pro's question about who has
gone the longest between Tour starts - let's restrict it to the
postwar era. I believe Museeuw started in 1997 and 2001,
but I'm sure there is someone with a longer absence - perhaps
some Spanish or Italian domestique.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If Jan could win, nine years after, it will be a
testament to something - though to what I don't exactly know.

I he wins, Armstrong will be elated, because everybody will say: if
Armstrong had been there, etc.

Everybody who says that will be able to say that no matter
who wins, and some will. It is most likely that whoever wins
will be someone that has previously been behind Armstrong.
(Otherwise it would almost have to be a first time participant.)
But the counterfactual is meaningless, and Armstrong would
likely admit that himself.

I did think the converse thought, that if Jan wins this year,
people will trot out the counterfactual "If only Armstrong hadn't
been there, Jan might have won seven tours." But it could
also be a testament to the amount of potential Jan and his
handlers have wasted.

Ben

Quoted message said:

I don't know the answer to Crit Pro's question about who has
gone the longest between Tour starts - let's restrict it to the
postwar era. I believe Museeuw started in 1997 and 2001,

In recent years, you have Rebellin in 1997 and 2003.

Jenko

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

benjo maso said:

Quoted message said:

It would be historic though. The longest interval between Tour
wins was 10 years for Bartali 1938-1948, but of course that was
interrupted by the war, so there were only two Tours in between.
As far as I can tell the next longest interval was four years
(Anquetil 1957-61).

Philippe Thijs (1914-1920)

Ah, thanks Benjo, I did look this up but missed Thijs.
On looking at my list again, I see there was only one Tour
in between 1914 and 1920, a war also of course.
That's why I missed Thijs. So his case is similar to
Bartali's, while Anquetil nominally missed three chances
and then returned to win (four in a row, no less).

If Fignon had beaten Lemond in 1989 he would have gone
five years between victories (1984-1989).

I don't know the answer to Crit Pro's question about who has
gone the longest between Tour starts - let's restrict it to the
postwar era. I believe Museeuw started in 1997 and 2001,
but I'm sure there is someone with a longer absence - perhaps
some Spanish or Italian domestique.

In 1962 and 1963 (when the Tour abandoned the national team format en went
back to trade teams), there were a lot or riders who hadn't particpated to
the Tour for years, like Benedetti (1955-62), Sorgeloos (55-62), Couvreur
(55-62), Impanis (56-63), but they were "beaten" by Cerami (1949 as an
Italian, 1957 as a Belgian). And there are probably some others.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If Jan could win, nine years after, it will be a
testament to something - though to what I don't exactly know.

I he wins, Armstrong will be elated, because everybody will say: if
Armstrong had been there, etc.

Everybody who says that will be able to say that no matter
who wins, and some will.

Sure, but it would more convincing if it's someone Armstrong has beaten all
the time than a young rider who has never participated in the Tour before -
Cunego for instance.

Quoted message said:

It is most likely that whoever wins
will be someone that has previously been behind Armstrong.
(Otherwise it would almost have to be a first time participant.)

Not impossible. Gimondi won in 1965 after 4 years Anquetil (who hoped that
Poulidor would win, because he had always beaten him).

Quoted message said:

But the counterfactual is meaningless, and Armstrong would
likely admit that himself.

I think Armstrong would like it a lot if everybody is saying that he would
have won if he had not retired. I think he hopes that Ullrich or Basso will
win.

Quoted message said:

I did think the converse thought, that if Jan wins this year,
people will trot out the counterfactual "If only Armstrong hadn't
been there, Jan might have won seven tours."

They certainly will say that, and Armstrong will be very pleased.

Quoted message said:

But it could
also be a testament to the amount of potential Jan and his
handlers have wasted.

And they have, I agree with you. Armstrong didn't need a good manager, but
Ullrich did and I'm afraid he never had one. But the best thing that
happened to Ullrich last year is that Godefroot has retired.

Benjo

I don't believe that Ullrich will be able to beat a REALLY motivated
Ivan Basso. I just finished watching the 2005 Giro and Tour DVD's and I
think that there's only two guys that could put up a genuine challenge
to Ivan - Valverde and a healthy Cunego. Plainly Cunego was as good as
everyone else but Basso in the Giro while suffering from
mononucleosis!

I have to say that Paulo Salvodelli looked to me like with some more
high cadence training that he would be a greater challenge in the Giro.
I don't think that Simoni will improve but surely Salvodelli will and a
Cunego as team leader will probably be the chief protagonist in this
year's Giro.

But if indeed Landis and Leipheimer are both talking about the Giro
this could change things. Surely these two guys have a significant
chance at hitting the podium in Milano. This year's Giro looks to have
significantly harder climbing than last year though a little less of
it. Floyd and Levi are climbers with the advantage of Levi being as
good as Simoni on hard climbs and a lot better time trialer.

Cunego isn't a good time trialer at last look but then it's always hard
to use last year's results on this years's athletes with modern
training methods.

It's possible that this year's Giro will again be the best racing of
the year like last year.

I think I read somewhere that Cunego's performance numbers were a lot
higher than Armstrongs. If that's the case and he puts up a real fight
with Basso in this year's Tour and both of them distance Jan as I
suspect will happen, then that "Armstrong would have won" loses its
impetus.

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Tom Kunich said:

I don't believe that Ullrich will be able to beat a REALLY motivated
Ivan Basso. I just finished watching the 2005 Giro and Tour DVD's and I
think that there's only two guys that could put up a genuine challenge
to Ivan - Valverde and a healthy Cunego. Plainly Cunego was as good as
everyone else but Basso in the Giro while suffering from
mononucleosis!

I have to say that Paulo Salvodelli looked to me like with some more
high cadence training that he would be a greater challenge in the Giro.
I don't think that Simoni will improve but surely Salvodelli will and a
Cunego as team leader will probably be the chief protagonist in this
year's Giro.

But if indeed Landis and Leipheimer are both talking about the Giro
this could change things. Surely these two guys have a significant
chance at hitting the podium in Milano. This year's Giro looks to have
significantly harder climbing than last year though a little less of
it. Floyd and Levi are climbers with the advantage of Levi being as
good as Simoni on hard climbs and a lot better time trialer.

Cunego isn't a good time trialer at last look but then it's always hard
to use last year's results on this years's athletes with modern
training methods.

Heh. He said `modern training methods'.

Quoted message said:

It's possible that this year's Giro will again be the best racing of
the year like last year.

It is more difficult to handicap the teams. Which riders
will cough up a lung to keep their guy in position to win
it all? Who will ride in the wind all day, keep the wolves
at bay, and do it again? And why? Will it come down to a
bargain between teams?

It promises to be dramatic.

--
Michael Press

On 17 Jan 2006 08:37:52 -0800, "Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I don't believe that Ullrich will be able to beat a REALLY motivated
Ivan Basso. I just finished watching the 2005 Giro and Tour DVD's and I
think that there's only two guys that could put up a genuine challenge
to Ivan - Valverde and a healthy Cunego. Plainly Cunego was as good as
everyone else but Basso in the Giro while suffering from
mononucleosis!

I have to say that Paulo Salvodelli looked to me like with some more
high cadence training that he would be a greater challenge in the Giro.
I don't think that Simoni will improve but surely Salvodelli will and a
Cunego as team leader will probably be the chief protagonist in this
year's Giro.

But if indeed Landis and Leipheimer are both talking about the Giro
this could change things. Surely these two guys have a significant
chance at hitting the podium in Milano. This year's Giro looks to have
significantly harder climbing than last year though a little less of
it. Floyd and Levi are climbers with the advantage of Levi being as
good as Simoni on hard climbs and a lot better time trialer.

Cunego isn't a good time trialer at last look but then it's always hard
to use last year's results on this years's athletes with modern
training methods.

It's possible that this year's Giro will again be the best racing of
the year like last year.

Not that it isn't anything that anyone reading Cycle Sport hasn't
already read, but Landis sounded as if he wouldn't let the Giro
threaten his performance in the Tour, so that sounds like an
opportunistic Giro to me: ride within his limits and hope that some
stupidity happens among the leaders that lets him make the podium or
even win without redlining very often if at all.

He also gave a partial endorsement to Jan - saying that sheer
stupidity to the point of incomprensibility in TM tactics aside, Jan
is the only one in his opinion that made his own time gains among the
leaders, rather than riding on the wheel of Armstrong to separate from
the others. IOW, he didn't seem to feel Basso has shown that he can
take the Tour lead on his own resources. Seemed to ignore the Giro
dynamics, but then, he didn't ride the Giro. Also seems to indicate
that he doesn't include Vino among the expected leaders as he sure as
heck made his own time gaps on the rest. Had to last year...

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Tom Kunich said:

I have to say that Paulo Salvodelli looked to me like with some more
high cadence training that he would be a greater challenge in the Giro.

i've heard that red herring, maybe on a few slices of panache will help
with that.

On subject 1: Landis isn't going to pass up a Giro win for a Tour
placing and you can bet your roll on that.

As for subject 2: If you watched the Giro you'd have seen Ivan blowing
everyone's doors off and smiling while he did it. Whatever he caught or
ate took away an easy Giro win for him. Since Floyd wasn't racing the
Giro he didn't say anything about it.

But one thing you'll notice about Floyd - he's pretty open about
anything he's thinking. That doesn't make him right. But it lets you in
on some inside ideas.

I sort of discount Vino because so far he's shown himself to be too
incendiary. If he can learn self control and get his team on his side
he could be a threat. But that's likely to be a big step for him since
he's naturally egotistical and pushes everyone around himself. That
won't go down well with some riders on his own team.

So what you're saying is that a double winner of the Giro did it all on
luck.

Tom Kunich schreef:

Quoted message said:

I have to say that Paulo Salvodelli looked to me like with some more
high cadence training that he would be a greater challenge in the Giro.
I don't think that Simoni will improve but surely Salvodelli will and a
Cunego as team leader will probably be the chief protagonist in this
year's Giro.

It's possible that this year's Giro will again be the best racing of
the year like last year.

*PAOLO SAVOLDELLI* could well see himself with a strong Disco team that
thinks a good shot at a Giro repeat is better than a long shot at a Tour
podium place or even a stage win. This year's Giro COULD become as
boring as the last few Tours.

Not predicting, just speculating.

"Geraard Spergen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich schreef:

Quoted message said:

I have to say that Paulo Salvodelli looked to me like with some more
high cadence training that he would be a greater challenge in the Giro.
I don't think that Simoni will improve but surely Salvodelli will and a
Cunego as team leader will probably be the chief protagonist in this
year's Giro.

It's possible that this year's Giro will again be the best racing of
the year like last year.

*PAOLO SAVOLDELLI* could well see himself with a strong Disco team that
thinks a good shot at a Giro repeat is better than a long shot at a Tour
podium place or even a stage win. This year's Giro COULD become as boring
as the last few Tours.

Not predicting, just speculating.

Paolo's riding looked so much like Lance that it seemed pretty plain to me
that they had the same training regime and that Paolo still hadn't gotten
all of his modifications down pat. You MAY be right that the Giro would
become another Discovery cakewalk but I don't think that a healthy Cunego
would allow that to happen. And you can't count Simoni out since he came SOO
close last year.

And the fact is that DeLuca showed that he has the drive. All it would have
taken is three kilos less weight and he would have ridden with anyone there.

Tom Kunich said:

"Geraard Spergen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich schreef:

Quoted message said:

I have to say that Paulo Salvodelli looked to me like with some more
high cadence training that he would be a greater challenge in the Giro.
I don't think that Simoni will improve but surely Salvodelli will and a
Cunego as team leader will probably be the chief protagonist in this
year's Giro.

It's possible that this year's Giro will again be the best racing of
the year like last year.

*PAOLO SAVOLDELLI* could well see himself with a strong Disco team that
thinks a good shot at a Giro repeat is better than a long shot at a Tour
podium place or even a stage win. This year's Giro COULD become as boring
as the last few Tours.

Not predicting, just speculating.

Paolo's riding looked so much like Lance that it seemed pretty plain to me
that they had the same training regime and that Paolo still hadn't gotten
all of his modifications down pat. You MAY be right that the Giro would
become another Discovery cakewalk but I don't think that a healthy Cunego
would allow that to happen. And you can't count Simoni out since he came SOO
close last year.

And the fact is that DeLuca showed that he has the drive. All it would have
taken is three kilos less weight and he would have ridden with anyone there.

Has anyone heard of Jose' Rujano Guillen will be in the Giro this year.
His climbing helped make last year's a classic