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Ivan Illich, a Free Thinker

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
29 October 2005
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3 November 2005
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  1. "Ivan Illich
    http://naturalhealthperspective.com/tutorials/ivan-illich.html
    Copyright © 1999-2005, by John H. Gohde, All Rights Reserved.

    In the wellness movement, the concept of medicalization is attributed
    to Ivan Illich who was, also, one of the first to advocate patient
    empowerment. He was one of the movements greatest free thinkers who was
    born September 4, 1926 in Vienna and died December 2, 2002 of cancer at
    the age of 76 in Bremen, Germany.

    Illich was a multilingual prolific writer who focused on the major
    institutions of the industrialized world. He applied a "model of social
    assessment of technological progress" to one of these institutions in
    each of his books in order to expose their current state of
    counterproductivity. His most celebrated work is generally considered
    to be Deschooling Society, a critical discourse on education.

    Illich's rhetoric is often described as polemic or rhetorically
    intoxicating. As a gifted linguist, Illich likes to play with words. As
    a nonconformist, Illich often uses words outside of their normal
    context and generally accepted meanings. And, unless you read Illich
    while you are in the correct frame of mind, you will find his writing
    to be just wordy, flowery rants that are generally hard to follow.

    Looking at his mission, Illich considers "self-reliance, autonomy, and
    dignity for all, particularly the weaker"[5] to be the highest good.
    Illich advocates that "individual freedom [is] realized in personal
    independence."[5] He laments industrialized societies where
    ever-increasing production, consumption and profit are used to measure
    the quality of human life. In all of his books, Illich calls for people
    to rediscover the lost art of living. His universal theme is the
    "counterproductivity of overindustrialized civilization."[5] To Illich,
    in order for man to live creatively, man must reassert his autonomy and
    take control of his environment. From his point of view, society
    created the institutions in order to serve the society. But, according
    to Illich, these institutions have all become counterproductive to
    their original intent because they now exist to benefit themselves
    rather than the betterment of society. Health care is merely one of
    many institutions that Illich has written about.

    Illich's classic criticism of Western medicine is called Medical
    Nemesis and was first published in 1976. A second edition was later
    issued as Limits to Medicine in 1995. In Medical Nemesis Illich applies
    a formulaic "model of social assessment of technological progress ...
    to the criticism of the professional monopoly and of the scientism in
    health care."[5]

    In Medical Nemesis , Illich challenged the fundamental premise of
    medical 'progress', arguing that institutional medicine is
    overwhelmingly pathogenic and actively 'sickening.'

    Health, argues Illich, is the capacity to cope with the human reality
    of death, pain, and sickness. Technology can help, but modern medicine
    has gone too far launching into a god like battle to eradicate death,
    pain, and sickness. In doing so, it turns people into consumers or
    objects, destroying their capacity for health.

    The concept of medicalization is attributed to Ivan Illich, who first
    wrote on the subject in 1976. He proposed that modern medicine had
    become detrimental to society, by amongst other things, "launching ...
    an inhuman attempt to defeat death, pain and sickness".[5] By doing so,
    he argued, medicine had deprived individuals and societies of their
    ability to cope with sickness and death.

    According to Illich, "iatrogenesis cannot be understood unless it is
    seen as the specifically medicial manifestation of specific
    counterproductivitiy." Illich sees three levels of iatrogenesis.
    Clinical iatrogenesis is the injury done to patients by ineffective,
    toxic, and unsafe treatments. Social iatrogenesis results from the
    medicalisation of life. Cultural iatrogenesis is the destruction of
    traditional ways of dealing with and making sense of death, pain, and
    sickness.

    Evidence-based medicine is described in these pages 20 years before the
    term was coined. The explosion in ever escalating health care costs is
    both predicted and explained. Popular opinion wrongly credits medical
    science with the control of disease, when in fact the general decrease
    in morbidity and mortality are in fact the result of better standards
    of living. Further he claims, along with Weil, that awe-inspiring
    medical technology has combined with egalitarian rhetoric to create the
    impression that contemporary medicine is highly effective.

    Books Written by Ivan Illich
    1. Education (Deschooling Society, 1971)
    2. Energy, Transport and Economic Development (Energy And Equity, 1974)

    3. Historicity of Materials (H2O And The Waters of Forgetfulness,
    1985),
    4. Literacy
    (ABC, The Alphabetisation Of The Popular Mind, 1988, co-written
    with Barry Sanders)
    (In The Vineyard Of The Text, 1993)
    5. Medicine (Medical Nemesis, 1976)
    6. Technological Development (Tools For Conviviality, 1973)
    7. Work
    (The Right To Useful Unemployment And Its Professional Enemies,
    1978)
    (Shadow Work, 1981)"

  2. It's a shame Illich didn't spend some time attemtping to understand the
    molecular and cellular level evidence, and trying to determine whether
    there was a unifying framework for all the evidence (or at least all
    the evidence that was not totally "cooked"😉. If he had, it would have
    saved me a lot of time over the last few years, because I think he
    could have gotten to the heart of the matter, instead of telling people
    to simply accept "aging," etc. For example, stomach cancer used to be
    the big killer prior to WW II, but (leaving aside the lung
    cancer/smoking issue) now colorectal, breast, and prostate cancers are
    much more common. The reasons for this seem clear, once one reads the
    evidence. Thus, while Illich makes some excellent points, one can,
    for the most part, just live as if the "medical establishment" does not
    exist (unless you get into a bad car accident or something like that),
    and therefore such things will not be a problem for you.

  3. montygram said:

    For example, stomach cancer used to be
    the big killer prior to WW II, but (leaving aside the lung
    cancer/smoking issue) now colorectal, breast, and prostate cancers are
    much more common. The reasons for this seem clear, once one reads the
    evidence.

    Let us see now, World War I. Electricity was barely in common usage.
    Automobiles were just starting to be commonly used in urban areas. The
    electric refrigerator did not exist. There was no highway system.
    And, certainly no such thing as a CDL class A or B driving license.

    Just thought that Monty might want to rethink what actually got rid of
    stomach cancer in the States. It certainly was NOT conventional
    medicine. Or, a bunch of Crackpots whining about the coming pandemic on
    the Internet.

    Cancer for the most part is caused by lifestyle.

    Quoted message said:

    exist (unless you get into a bad car accident or something like that),
    and therefore such things will not be a problem for you.

    That is about all that the medical establishment is good for. 🙁

    Also, according to a recent HBO documentary on teenage car accidents
    the medical establishment does a very [censored]-poor job of curing brain
    injuries from car accidents. Seems that even if the body has been
    secured by a seat belt the brain keeps on moving and twisting all
    around inside your own skull. And in every case, after ER patched the
    body up, they still had to wait for days, weeks, and even months for
    mother nature to heal the body before the injured person would wake up
    from a coma.

    Just thought that Monty might want to know, just how laughably bad
    medicine actually is.

  4. Mr-Natural-Health said:
    montygram said:

    For example, stomach cancer used to be
    the big killer prior to WW II, but (leaving aside the lung
    cancer/smoking issue) now colorectal, breast, and prostate cancers are
    much more common. The reasons for this seem clear, once one reads the
    evidence.

    Let us see now, World War I. Electricity was barely in common usage.
    Automobiles were just starting to be commonly used in urban areas. The
    electric refrigerator did not exist. There was no highway system.
    And, certainly no such thing as a CDL class A or B driving license.

    Just thought that Monty might want to rethink what actually got rid of
    stomach cancer in the States. It certainly was NOT conventional
    medicine. Or, a bunch of Crackpots whining about the coming pandemic on
    the Internet.

    Cancer for the most part is caused by lifestyle.

    Quoted message said:

    exist (unless you get into a bad car accident or something like that),
    and therefore such things will not be a problem for you.

    That is about all that the medical establishment is good for. 🙁

    Also, according to a recent HBO documentary on teenage car accidents
    the medical establishment does a very [censored]-poor job of curing brain
    injuries from car accidents. Seems that even if the body has been
    secured by a seat belt the brain keeps on moving and twisting all
    around inside your own skull. And in every case, after ER patched the
    body up, they still had to wait for days, weeks, and even months for
    mother nature to heal the body before the injured person would wake up
    from a coma.

    Just thought that Monty might want to know, just how laughably bad
    medicine actually is.

    Please tell us that you have tattoos all over your body informing folks
    that you do not want any medical treatment if you ever end up
    unconscious in the ER after an accident. Please.

  5. "JohnDoe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Mr-Natural-Health said:
    montygram said:

    For example, stomach cancer used to be
    the big killer prior to WW II, but (leaving aside the lung
    cancer/smoking issue) now colorectal, breast, and prostate cancers are
    much more common. The reasons for this seem clear, once one reads the
    evidence.

    Let us see now, World War I. Electricity was barely in common usage.
    Automobiles were just starting to be commonly used in urban areas. The
    electric refrigerator did not exist. There was no highway system.
    And, certainly no such thing as a CDL class A or B driving license.

    Just thought that Monty might want to rethink what actually got rid of
    stomach cancer in the States. It certainly was NOT conventional
    medicine. Or, a bunch of Crackpots whining about the coming pandemic on
    the Internet.

    Cancer for the most part is caused by lifestyle.

    Quoted message said:

    exist (unless you get into a bad car accident or something like that),
    and therefore such things will not be a problem for you.

    That is about all that the medical establishment is good for. 🙁

    Also, according to a recent HBO documentary on teenage car accidents
    the medical establishment does a very [censored]-poor job of curing brain
    injuries from car accidents. Seems that even if the body has been
    secured by a seat belt the brain keeps on moving and twisting all
    around inside your own skull. And in every case, after ER patched the
    body up, they still had to wait for days, weeks, and even months for
    mother nature to heal the body before the injured person would wake up
    from a coma.

    Just thought that Monty might want to know, just how laughably bad
    medicine actually is.

    Please tell us that you have tattoos all over your body informing folks
    that you do not want any medical treatment if you ever end up unconscious
    in the ER after an accident. Please.

    It wouldn't help; we'd treat him anyway. In the absence of a notarized
    document such as a living will or durable power of attorney, a state of
    unconsciousness conveys "implied consent" for treatment. If our laughably
    bad treatment resulted in his regaining consciousness, he could, of course,
    refuse any or all subsequent laughably bad treatment.
    --

    --Rich

    Recommended websites:

    http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
    http://www.acahf.org.au
    http://www.quackwatch.org/
    http://www.skeptic.com/
    http://www.csicop.org/

  6. JohnDoe said:
    Quoted message said:

    Just thought that Monty might want to know, just how laughably bad
    medicine actually is.

    Please tell us that you have tattoos all over your body informing folks
    that you do not want any medical treatment if you ever end up
    unconscious in the ER after an accident. Please.

    I must put it in print someplace that the primary characteristic of a
    Quackpot is that they have to lie their posts.

    You have my condolences, Liar!

  7. Mr-Natural-Health said:
    JohnDoe said:
    Quoted message said:

    Just thought that Monty might want to know, just how laughably bad
    medicine actually is.

    Please tell us that you have tattoos all over your body informing folks
    that you do not want any medical treatment if you ever end up
    unconscious in the ER after an accident. Please.

    I must put it in print someplace that the primary characteristic of a
    Quackpot is that they have to lie their posts.

    Writing coherently isn't your strongpoint I see.

    Quoted message said:

    You have my condolences, Liar!

    Oh, and I forgot: don't forget to include you only want blood from a
    white person if you ever need a transfusion.

  8. Rich said:

    "JohnDoe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Mr-Natural-Health said:

    montygram wrote:

    >For example, stomach cancer used to be
    >the big killer prior to WW II, but (leaving aside the lung
    >cancer/smoking issue) now colorectal, breast, and prostate cancers are
    >much more common. The reasons for this seem clear, once one reads the
    >evidence.

    Let us see now, World War I. Electricity was barely in common usage.
    Automobiles were just starting to be commonly used in urban areas. The
    electric refrigerator did not exist. There was no highway system.
    And, certainly no such thing as a CDL class A or B driving license.

    Just thought that Monty might want to rethink what actually got rid of
    stomach cancer in the States. It certainly was NOT conventional
    medicine. Or, a bunch of Crackpots whining about the coming pandemic on
    the Internet.

    Cancer for the most part is caused by lifestyle.

    >exist (unless you get into a bad car accident or something like that),
    >and therefore such things will not be a problem for you.

    That is about all that the medical establishment is good for. 🙁

    Also, according to a recent HBO documentary on teenage car accidents
    the medical establishment does a very [censored]-poor job of curing brain
    injuries from car accidents. Seems that even if the body has been
    secured by a seat belt the brain keeps on moving and twisting all
    around inside your own skull. And in every case, after ER patched the
    body up, they still had to wait for days, weeks, and even months for
    mother nature to heal the body before the injured person would wake up
    from a coma.

    Just thought that Monty might want to know, just how laughably bad
    medicine actually is.

    Please tell us that you have tattoos all over your body informing folks
    that you do not want any medical treatment if you ever end up unconscious
    in the ER after an accident. Please.

    It wouldn't help; we'd treat him anyway. In the absence of a notarized
    document such as a living will or durable power of attorney, a state of
    unconsciousness conveys "implied consent" for treatment. If our laughably
    bad treatment resulted in his regaining consciousness, he could, of course,
    refuse any or all subsequent laughably bad treatment.

    Ah! Another Liar. 🙁

    Don't worry, I am NOT dumb enough to have an accident.

    Why do people have car accidents? Why do people get lifestyle
    diseases. There is a reason you know. My theory is that people prone
    to have car accidents are aggressive to the point of being reckless.
    After all, I have seen people taken to the hospital for the dumbest of
    reasons. Be reckless in your driving long enough, and you too will end
    up in the hands of these butchers.

    You have my condolences, Liar.

  9. JohnDoe said:

    Oh, and I forgot: don't forget to include you only want blood from a
    white person if you ever need a transfusion.

    Another Liar!

    Just my opinion, but I think I have discovered a character flaw in
    Quackpots.

  10. Quoted message said:
    JohnDoe said:

    Oh, and I forgot: don't forget to include you only want blood from a
    white person if you ever need a transfusion.

    Another Liar!

    Another Lollipop!

    Quoted message said:


    Just my opinion, but I think I have discovered a character flaw in
    Quackpots.

    Excellent; having made it clear that it's *his* opinion, he has ensured
    everyone will ignore it.

    Cathy

  11. "Mr-Natural-Health" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Rich said:

    "JohnDoe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Mr-Natural-Health wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >
    > Just thought that Monty might want to know, just how laughably bad
    > medicine actually is.

    Please tell us that you have tattoos all over your body informing folks
    that you do not want any medical treatment if you ever end up
    unconscious
    in the ER after an accident. Please.

    It wouldn't help; we'd treat him anyway. In the absence of a notarized
    document such as a living will or durable power of attorney, a state of
    unconsciousness conveys "implied consent" for treatment. If our laughably
    bad treatment resulted in his regaining consciousness, he could, of
    course,
    refuse any or all subsequent laughably bad treatment.

    Ah! Another Liar. 🙁

    Can't you find someone better than Lollipop to emulate?

    Quoted message said:


    Don't worry, I am NOT dumb enough to have an accident.

    Why do people have car accidents? Why do people get lifestyle
    diseases. There is a reason you know. My theory is that people prone
    to have car accidents are aggressive to the point of being reckless.
    After all, I have seen people taken to the hospital for the dumbest of
    reasons. Be reckless in your driving long enough, and you too will end
    up in the hands of these butchers.

    I see. You are protected from accidental injury by the same smug hubris that
    renders you immune to influenza. Good luck with that theory. I hope your
    safe driving program includes driving only on roads where none of the OTHER
    drivers are reckless, sleepy, angry, inattentive, or drunk, and that all the
    vehicles you encounter are well maintained to prevent mechanical failure.
    Oh, and since most accidents occur within 15 mile of home, perhaps you
    should move to someplace safer, too.
    --

    --Rich, the "butcher," eagerly awaiting you with his foley catheter, rectal
    thermometer, hypodermic needles, and endotrachial tube.

    Recommended websites:

    http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
    http://www.acahf.org.au
    http://www.quackwatch.org/
    http://www.skeptic.com/
    http://www.csicop.org/

  12. Mr-Natural-Health said:
    montygram said:

    For example, stomach cancer used to be
    the big killer prior to WW II, but (leaving aside the lung
    cancer/smoking issue) now colorectal, breast, and prostate cancers are
    much more common. The reasons for this seem clear, once one reads the
    evidence.

    Let us see now, World War I. Electricity was barely in common usage.
    Automobiles were just starting to be commonly used in urban areas. The
    electric refrigerator did not exist. There was no highway system.
    And, certainly no such thing as a CDL class A or B driving license.

    Just thought that Monty might want to rethink what actually got rid of
    stomach cancer in the States. It certainly was NOT conventional
    medicine. Or, a bunch of Crackpots whining about the coming pandemic on
    the Internet.

    Cancer for the most part is caused by lifestyle.

    Quoted message said:

    exist (unless you get into a bad car accident or something like that),
    and therefore such things will not be a problem for you.

    That is about all that the medical establishment is good for. 🙁

    Also, according to a recent HBO documentary on teenage car accidents
    the medical establishment does a very [censored]-poor job of curing brain
    injuries from car accidents. Seems that even if the body has been
    secured by a seat belt the brain keeps on moving and twisting all
    around inside your own skull. And in every case, after ER patched the
    body up, they still had to wait for days, weeks, and even months for
    mother nature to heal the body before the injured person would wake up
    from a coma.

    Just thought that Monty might want to know, just how laughably bad
    medicine actually is.

    WWII,

    is this where you say "nevermind"?

    j.

  13. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Mr-Natural-Health said:


    Rich said:

    It wouldn't help; we'd treat him anyway. In the absence of a notarized
    document such as a living will or durable power of attorney, a state of
    unconsciousness conveys "implied consent" for treatment. If our laughably
    bad treatment resulted in his regaining consciousness, he could, of course,
    refuse any or all subsequent laughably bad treatment.

    Ah! Another Liar. 🙁

    Don't worry, I am NOT dumb enough to have an accident.

    Sure you are. But even if you weren't, other people are.

    Apparently, you think you're immune to, say, someone running a stop
    sign or a red light. Or a drunk crossing the centerline of the
    highway and hitting you head on.

    Well, you're not.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
    -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth

  14. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Mr-Natural-Health said:


    Rich said:

    It wouldn't help; we'd treat him anyway. In the absence of a notarized
    document such as a living will or durable power of attorney, a state of
    unconsciousness conveys "implied consent" for treatment. If our laughably
    bad treatment resulted in his regaining consciousness, he could, of course,
    refuse any or all subsequent laughably bad treatment.

    Ah! Another Liar. 🙁

    Don't worry, I am NOT dumb enough to have an accident.

    Sure you are. But even if you weren't, other people are.

    Apparently, you think you're immune to, say, someone running a stop
    sign or a red light. Or a drunk crossing the centerline of the
    highway and hitting you head on.

    Well, you're not.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
    -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth

  15. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Mr-Natural-Health said:


    Rich said:

    It wouldn't help; we'd treat him anyway. In the absence of a notarized
    document such as a living will or durable power of attorney, a state of
    unconsciousness conveys "implied consent" for treatment. If our laughably
    bad treatment resulted in his regaining consciousness, he could, of course,
    refuse any or all subsequent laughably bad treatment.

    Ah! Another Liar. 🙁

    Don't worry, I am NOT dumb enough to have an accident.

    Sure you are. But even if you weren't, other people are.

    Apparently, you think you're immune to, say, someone running a stop
    sign or a red light. Or a drunk crossing the centerline of the
    highway and hitting you head on.

    Well, you're not.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
    -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth

  16. Rich said:
    Quoted message said:

    Don't worry, I am NOT dumb enough to have an accident.

    Why do people have car accidents? Why do people get lifestyle
    diseases. There is a reason you know. My theory is that people prone
    to have car accidents are aggressive to the point of being reckless.
    After all, I have seen people taken to the hospital for the dumbest of
    reasons. Be reckless in your driving long enough, and you too will end
    up in the hands of these butchers.

    I see. You are protected from accidental injury by the same smug hubris that
    renders you immune to influenza. Good luck with that theory. I hope your
    safe driving program includes driving only on roads where none of the OTHER
    drivers are reckless, sleepy, angry, inattentive, or drunk, and that all the
    vehicles you encounter are well maintained to prevent mechanical failure.
    Oh, and since most accidents occur within 15 mile of home, perhaps you
    should move to someplace safer, too.

    Sounds like the whiners who keep on telling me that I need collision
    insurance.

    Sorry, I am self-insured. In over 30 years of driving it has NEVER
    happened to me. For the money I have saved in insurance premiums I
    could buy a half dozen decent used cars to drive around in.

    The problem with you people is that you think you are my Mommy. Ugh!
    How disgusting. Get a life, Bud.

    Just my opinion, but I am NEVER wrong.

  17. Rich said:
    Quoted message said:

    Don't worry, I am NOT dumb enough to have an accident.

    Why do people have car accidents? Why do people get lifestyle
    diseases. There is a reason you know. My theory is that people prone
    to have car accidents are aggressive to the point of being reckless.
    After all, I have seen people taken to the hospital for the dumbest of
    reasons. Be reckless in your driving long enough, and you too will end
    up in the hands of these butchers.

    I see. You are protected from accidental injury by the same smug hubris that
    renders you immune to influenza. Good luck with that theory. I hope your
    safe driving program includes driving only on roads where none of the OTHER
    drivers are reckless, sleepy, angry, inattentive, or drunk, and that all the
    vehicles you encounter are well maintained to prevent mechanical failure.
    Oh, and since most accidents occur within 15 mile of home, perhaps you
    should move to someplace safer, too.

    Sounds like the whiners who keep on telling me that I need collision
    insurance.

    Sorry, I am self-insured. In over 30 years of driving it has NEVER
    happened to me. For the money I have saved in insurance premiums I
    could buy a half dozen decent used cars to drive around in.

    The problem with you people is that you think you are my Mommy. Ugh!
    How disgusting. Get a life, Bud.

    Just my opinion, but I am NEVER wrong.

  18. Rich said:
    Quoted message said:

    Don't worry, I am NOT dumb enough to have an accident.

    Why do people have car accidents? Why do people get lifestyle
    diseases. There is a reason you know. My theory is that people prone
    to have car accidents are aggressive to the point of being reckless.
    After all, I have seen people taken to the hospital for the dumbest of
    reasons. Be reckless in your driving long enough, and you too will end
    up in the hands of these butchers.

    I see. You are protected from accidental injury by the same smug hubris that
    renders you immune to influenza. Good luck with that theory. I hope your
    safe driving program includes driving only on roads where none of the OTHER
    drivers are reckless, sleepy, angry, inattentive, or drunk, and that all the
    vehicles you encounter are well maintained to prevent mechanical failure.
    Oh, and since most accidents occur within 15 mile of home, perhaps you
    should move to someplace safer, too.

    Sounds like the whiners who keep on telling me that I need collision
    insurance.

    Sorry, I am self-insured. In over 30 years of driving it has NEVER
    happened to me. For the money I have saved in insurance premiums I
    could buy a half dozen decent used cars to drive around in.

    The problem with you people is that you think you are my Mommy. Ugh!
    How disgusting. Get a life, Bud.

    Just my opinion, but I am NEVER wrong.

  19. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Mr-Natural-Health said:


    Rich said:
    Quoted message said:

    Don't worry, I am NOT dumb enough to have an accident.

    Why do people have car accidents? Why do people get lifestyle
    diseases. There is a reason you know. My theory is that people prone
    to have car accidents are aggressive to the point of being reckless.
    After all, I have seen people taken to the hospital for the dumbest of
    reasons. Be reckless in your driving long enough, and you too will end
    up in the hands of these butchers.

    I see. You are protected from accidental injury by the same smug hubris that
    renders you immune to influenza. Good luck with that theory. I hope your
    safe driving program includes driving only on roads where none of the OTHER
    drivers are reckless, sleepy, angry, inattentive, or drunk, and that all the
    vehicles you encounter are well maintained to prevent mechanical failure.
    Oh, and since most accidents occur within 15 mile of home, perhaps you
    should move to someplace safer, too.

    Sounds like the whiners who keep on telling me that I need collision
    insurance.

    Sorry, I am self-insured. In over 30 years of driving it has NEVER
    happened to me.

    Luck. I've had people back into my car when it was parked. I've had
    people back into me when I was driving (slowly) through a parking lot
    and they just shot out of their space without looking. If you think
    this can't happen to you, you're even more deluded than I thought.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
    -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth

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