IV drips

iv's are not some miracle of medicine. i've given ivs and i've received iv's and they are just not a big deal. it does not take a lot of medical knowledge to administer an iv and no one team should be at a disadvantage because another team sticks their riders because it doesnt take much at all for them to stick their own riders. ivs also dont dramatically improve your performance. all they do is hydrate ur body and the same effect can be achieved through drinking water the natural way albeit with more time and effort. i know lots of people that will give themselves an iv the night before doing something strenuous because it lowers the risk of heat injuries. its just a safe thing to do. anyone that wants to dope can dope just as easily without an iv as with one.

The problem with drips is not their availability or ease of use, or even their low cost. It is that they are bypassing the need for an athlete to perform on his merits - to put strength and endurance to the test during the day (with minimal interference) and to recover overnight. If recovery includes a drip, the athlete is no longer relying on his ability. It is like taking a short cut.

You suggest they can be used to reduce heat stress. Hanging on to the team car when you’re tired or going up a hill also reduces heat stress. But it’s not legal. Why? Because you are not relying on your body's stamina.

Drug use is a separate issue - it has nothing to do with my argument against drips.

Finally, if there is, as you claim, no dramatic improvement in performance from a drip you should have no problem with them not being used.

i dont have a problem with them not using iv drips but i dont have a problem with the riders using them either. the riders are competing on the merits of their strength and endurance. ivs do not make them stronger or give them more endurance. all an iv does is hydrate your system faster by putting fluids directly into your bloodstream instead of drinking the fluids and waiting for them to be absorbed through the intestines. u can achieve the affect of an iv by drinking water. an iv is just faster and wastes less time, opening you up to do other things. if you cant run a six minute mile without an iv (assuming you're well hydrated and in top form), u still wont be able to run a six minute mile just because you got an iv

ed073 said:

Neither are empty protein powder containers full of used syringes containing traces of eGH hidden in wardrobes.

IV drips are small beer.

rrrt

mitosis said:

Its not so much that I'm opposed to IV's its that I'm opposed to cheating - of any sort. I didn't want call it cheating before and I'm not sure its the right word - it does seem a little harsh, but in my opinion, the procedure certainly leans that way. Like I don't see it in the same class a drugs.

mitosis, you are absolutely correct it absolutely IS cheating... WADA code prohibits the use of IV drips so if a rider employs IV drips they are definitely cheating.

a 6th reason for its prohibition.. and this is a biggie is that it give athletes a quick, easy, effective way to mask use of prohibited substances and other prohibited methods.

there are lots of rules that people don't agree with... no disc brakes in cyclocross, saddle behind the bottom bracket, traditional 'eddy merckx style' bikes only for hour record etc, etc... but those are the rules.. if you brake the rules you are cheat... it's that simple.

mitosis said:

Fueling and hydrating the body is all part of the test of endurance and strength. If a cyclist needs a drip to compete he should not be in the race.

I think it's best to keep the IV legal.
If you ban IV drips, the riders have more incentive to dope (testosterone and HGH)

MintID said:

I think it's best to keep the IV legal.
If you ban IV drips, the riders have more incentive to dope (testosterone and HGH)

i don't know where you guys get your info but IV drips ARE prohibited except for emergency situation... using IV drips is cheating!

from UCI Prohibited substances and methods (link below)

"M2. CHEMICAL AND PHYSICAL MANIPULATION
1. Tampering, or attempting to tamper, in order to alter the integrity and
validity of Samples collected during Doping Controls is prohibited. These
include but are not limited to catheterisation, urine substitution and/or
alteration.
2. Intravenous infusion is prohibited. In an acute medical situation where this
method is deemed necessary, a retroactive Therapeutic Use Exemption will
be required."

UCI Prohibited substances and methods

doctorSpoc said:

i don't know where you guys get your info but IV drips ARE prohibited except for emergency situation... using IV drips is cheating!

from UCI Prohibited substances and methods (link below)

"M2. CHEMICAL AND PHYSICAL MANIPULATION
1. Tampering, or attempting to tamper, in order to alter the integrity and
validity of Samples collected during Doping Controls is prohibited. These
include but are not limited to catheterisation, urine substitution and/or
alteration.
2. Intravenous infusion is prohibited. In an acute medical situation where this
method is deemed necessary, a retroactive Therapeutic Use Exemption will
be required."

UCI Prohibited substances and methods

arent they talking about blood infusion?

MintID said:

arent they talking about blood infusion?

i wouldn't think so... that is covered by M1 just above in that same document... after that statement prohibiting all sorts of blood doping (below) i don't think they need to then state you can't use an IV drip to do your blood doping in addition... you just can't blood doping period.

as well "Intravenous infusion is prohibited." is a total and all encompassing statement... you just cannot use it as a method period. except in emergency cases... the way it is stated and the only way i can see it interpreted is that it covers IV infusion for rehydration, blood, electrolytes... anything. you just can't use intravenous infusion as a method, period.

M1. ENHANCEMENT OF OXYGEN TRANSFER
The following are prohibited:
1. Blood doping, including the use of autologous, homologous or heterologous
blood or red blood cell products of any origin.
2. Artificially enhancing the uptake, transport or delivery of oxygen, including
but not limited to perfluorochemicals, efaproxiral (RSR13) and modified
haemoglobin products (e.g. haemoglobin-based blood substitutes,
microencapsulated haemoglobin products).

MintID said:

I think it's best to keep the IV legal.
If you ban IV drips, the riders have more incentive to dope (testosterone and HGH)

IV drips facilitate the masking of the doping... so i don't quite understand your statement.

it allows for more effective evading of detection of the drugs you say it's disincentivizing?

i disagree with your statement. IV drip facilitating evading of doping so it actually incentivizes it since it makes doping harder to detect.

i think you have it bass ackwards.

doctorSpoc said:

IV drips facilitate the masking of the doping... so i don't quite understand your statement.

it allows for more effective evading of detection of the drugs you say it's disincentivizing?

i disagree with your statement. IV drip facilitating evading of doping so it actually incentivizes it since it makes doping harder to detect.

i think you have it bass ackwards.

I see your point.
I was just saying, that if we'd allow the riders to use IV to recover better, there would be a smaller chance that they would turn to doping. But of course, if it's used to maske doping, then it becomes problematic.

doctorSpoc said:

IV drips facilitate the masking of the doping... so i don't quite understand your statement.

it allows for more effective evading of detection of the drugs you say it's disincentivizing?

i disagree with your statement. IV drip facilitating evading of doping so it actually incentivizes it since it makes doping harder to detect.

i think you have it bass ackwards.

rree

doctorSpoc said:

i don't know where you guys get your info but IV drips ARE prohibited except for emergency situation... using IV drips is cheating!

from UCI Prohibited substances and methods (link below)

"M2. CHEMICAL AND PHYSICAL MANIPULATION
1. Tampering, or attempting to tamper, in order to alter the integrity and
validity of Samples collected during Doping Controls is prohibited. These
include but are not limited to catheterisation, urine substitution and/or
alteration.
2. Intravenous infusion is prohibited. In an acute medical situation where this
method is deemed necessary, a retroactive Therapeutic Use Exemption will
be required."

UCI Prohibited substances and methods

I forgot cyclists always obey the rules. The rules are regularly bent to the extent that on every mountain stage in the tour de france cyclists are rehydrated using iv infusion. My information comes from seeing riders with drips in their arm, including LA.

mitosis said:

I forgot cyclists always obey the rules. The rules are regularly bent to the extent that on every mountain stage in the tour de france cyclists are rehydrated using iv infusion. My information comes from seeing riders with drips in their arm, including LA.

rree