It was Landis

Jeff Jones said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul27news3

Jeff

[censored]! (pending positive B sample test)

"Geraard Spergen" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jeff Jones said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul27news3

Jeff

[censored]! (pending positive B sample test)

Is this a case of a non-natural doping product found, or a naturally
occurring hormone found at abnormal levels?

Jeff Jones said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul27news3

Jeff

What a mess! Godamn, hope this turns out as a failure. There's still
hope, right? Dammit, the press will be all over cycling.

On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 10:26:24 -0400, trg <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Geraard Spergen" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de
news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jeff Jones said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul27news3

Jeff

[censored]! (pending positive B sample test)

Is this a case of a non-natural doping product found, or a naturally
occurring hormone found at abnormal levels?

I think both, but google-ing this turns up a ton of info, not much of
which is related to cycling.

--
Bob in CT

trg said:

Is this a case of a non-natural doping product found, or a naturally
occurring hormone found at abnormal levels?

It's what is says: unbalanced level of two related hormones, taken as
an indication of manipulation. Same as what brought down Gert-Jan
Theunisse.

--
E. Dronkert

"Ewoud Dronkert" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de
news: [email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

trg said:

Is this a case of a non-natural doping product found, or a naturally
occurring hormone found at abnormal levels?

It's what is says: unbalanced level of two related hormones, taken as
an indication of manipulation. Same as what brought down Gert-Jan
Theunisse.

--
E. Dronkert

And Mary Decker Slaney. (Was Floyd on the pill?)

It looks like we're all about to get another biology lesson. Is it possible
that the massive amounts of water that Landis consumed could influence the
results?

Ewoud Dronkert said:

trg said:

Is this a case of a non-natural doping product found, or a naturally
occurring hormone found at abnormal levels?

It's what is says: unbalanced level of two related hormones, taken as
an indication of manipulation. Same as what brought down Gert-Jan
Theunisse.

--
E. Dronkert

"Dutch rider Gert-Jan Theunisse was busted during the 1990 Tour, for
the second time in two years, but was given a stay of execution because
of a procedural mix-up. The other riders, believing he should have been
banned, went on strike. This may have been somewhat hypocritical in
certain cases. Theunisse's defence was that his body produced unusually
high levels of testosterone ."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,13026,989709,00.html

"Jeff Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul27news3

Jeff

Two questions:

1) Would taking test the day before or the day of improve his performance?

2) Could the effort it took to win stage 17 throw the hormone ratios out of
balance?

-Andy B.

trg said:

"Geraard Spergen" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jeff Jones said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul27news3

Jeff

[censored]! (pending positive B sample test)

Is this a case of a non-natural doping product found, or a naturally
occurring hormone found at abnormal levels?

It'a most likely a case of applying giant testo patches all over his
"private parts" as explained by Jackche's doc' before the tour.

"trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Ewoud Dronkert" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message
de news: [email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

trg said:

Is this a case of a non-natural doping product found, or a naturally
occurring hormone found at abnormal levels?

It's what is says: unbalanced level of two related hormones, taken as
an indication of manipulation. Same as what brought down Gert-Jan
Theunisse.

--
E. Dronkert

And Mary Decker Slaney. (Was Floyd on the pill?)

It looks like we're all about to get another biology lesson. Is it
possible that the massive amounts of water that Landis consumed could
influence the results?

Actually, the reason of his massive water consumption was to hide the drug
in question from testing...kind of makes sense now...

Andy B. said:

"Jeff Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul27news3

Jeff

Two questions:

1) Would taking test the day before or the day of improve his performance?

I don't know what you mean? His performance on the drug test? Explain.

Quoted message said:

2) Could the effort it took to win stage 17 throw the hormone ratios out of
balance?

In general, a natural or pathological physical condition could lead to
a 6:1 ratio, but I don't know the details.

Quoted message said:

-Andy B.

"Andy B." <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Jeff Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul27news3

Jeff

Two questions:

1) Would taking test the day before or the day of improve his performance?

2) Could the effort it took to win stage 17 throw the hormone ratios out
of balance?

-Andy B.

Maybe he took it to do well in the ITT a few days later?

in message <[email hidden]>, Jeff

Jones (') said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul27news3

Oh, [censored].

I wasn't a Landis fan - I rather hoped we'd have an American-free podium,
for a change. But I didn't want it this way. And to be honest, despite
Phonak's history, I would not have suspected him of it.

Oh, /[censored]/.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; 'I think we should trust our president in every decision
;; that he makes and we should just support that'
;; Britney Spears of George W Bush, CNN 04:09:03

"mimoso" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
Nv4yg.244316$iF6.192749@pd7tw2no...

Quoted message said:

"trg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Ewoud Dronkert" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message
de news: [email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:26:24 +0200, trg wrote:
> Is this a case of a non-natural doping product found, or a naturally
> occurring hormone found at abnormal levels?

It's what is says: unbalanced level of two related hormones, taken as
an indication of manipulation. Same as what brought down Gert-Jan
Theunisse.

--
E. Dronkert

And Mary Decker Slaney. (Was Floyd on the pill?)

It looks like we're all about to get another biology lesson. Is it
possible that the massive amounts of water that Landis consumed could
influence the results?

Actually, the reason of his massive water consumption was to hide the
drug
in question from testing...kind of makes sense now...

How'd that work out for him?

trg said:

"Ewoud Dronkert" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de
news: [email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

trg said:

Is this a case of a non-natural doping product found, or a naturally
occurring hormone found at abnormal levels?

It's what is says: unbalanced level of two related hormones, taken as
an indication of manipulation. Same as what brought down Gert-Jan
Theunisse.

--
E. Dronkert

And Mary Decker Slaney. (Was Floyd on the pill?)

It looks like we're all about to get another biology lesson. Is it possible
that the massive amounts of water that Landis consumed could influence the
results?

Just guessing, but water probably decreases the amount of both T and E
the same amount in a urine test. I know that a doper can take E to
try to get the T:E ratio below 6:1. The water would mask the total
amount of both, assuming that is necessary to pass the tests, but I
don't know if there is an absolute limit.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And Mary Decker Slaney. (Was Floyd on the pill?)

It looks like we're all about to get another biology lesson. Is it
possible that the massive amounts of water that Landis consumed could
influence the results?

Actually, the reason of his massive water consumption was to hide the
drug
in question from testing...kind of makes sense now...

How'd that work out for him?

Well water is know to "wash out' the stuff they take, not sure it
works for testo, but it cetainly works for "speed"

mimoso said:

Quoted message said:

It looks like we're all about to get another biology lesson. Is it
possible that the massive amounts of water that Landis consumed could
influence the results?

Actually, the reason of his massive water consumption was to hide the drug
in question from testing...kind of makes sense now...

The water was for his hydration, only. Water consumption, while it may
have flushed stimulants, wouldn't have any effect on the T/E ratio
test.

It was, however, the beer the night before that caused the problem.

The Effect of Alcohol Consumption on the Urinary Testosterone /
Epitestosterone Ratio

By Dr Simon Davis B.Sc., Ph.D.

Summary

Intoxicating beverages contain a number of different forms of alcohol,
the major constituent of which is ethanol. When a beverage is consumed
the ethanol content passes through the stomach wall and digestive tract
into the blood stream. Once the ethanol enters circulation it begins
to alter the bodies' biochemistry. One such reaction is to
differentially increase the rates of testosterone (T) and
epitestosterone (E) metabolism. The overall effect of this reaction is
to increase the ratio of T to E excreted in the urine.

It has been reported that ethanol consumption can increase urinary T/E
ratios by 30% - 277% in healthy individuals. Observed changes in
plasma T/E ratios can occur with the consumption of less than 2 pints
of lager. The ingestion of ethanol by an individual will increase the
T/E ratio observed in a urine sample.

It follows that if the effect of ethanol on T/E ratios is calculated
relative to urinary E concentrations, it can be seen that increases in
the ratio are exponential as E concentrations decrease. Individuals
with naturally low E concentrations could, therefore, experience
increases in T/E ratios of ? 940% greater than increases experienced in
an individual with normal E concentrations. Calculations estimate
that in individuals with low urinary E concentration, ratios of 17 to 1
or higher could have resulted from ethanol consumption without any
administration of exogenous T.

The current T/E ratio test as performed by Kings College Laboratory and
approved by the UK Sports, the IWF and IOC cannot discriminate between
a 13 to 1 T/E ratio resulting from ethanol ingestion or a 13 to 1 ratio
resulting from endogenous T administration.

trg said:

"Andy B." <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Jeff Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul27news3

Jeff

Two questions:

1) Would taking test the day before or the day of improve his performance?

2) Could the effort it took to win stage 17 throw the hormone ratios out
of balance?

-Andy B.

Maybe he took it to do well in the ITT a few days later?

Right, he's 8 minutes down, with apparently little hope of getting back
in contention, and he takes testosterone so he can gain a minute on a
time trial 3 days later?

C'mon.

"Scott" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

mimoso said:

Quoted message said:

It looks like we're all about to get another biology lesson. Is it
possible that the massive amounts of water that Landis consumed could
influence the results?

Actually, the reason of his massive water consumption was to hide the
drug
in question from testing...kind of makes sense now...

The water was for his hydration, only. Water consumption, while it may
have flushed stimulants, wouldn't have any effect on the T/E ratio
test.

It was, however, the beer the night before that caused the problem.

The Effect of Alcohol Consumption on the Urinary Testosterone /
Epitestosterone Ratio

Yes I know. It is a beer from Belgium.
Called "Pot Belge" or something .......

Quoted message said:

By Dr Simon Davis B.Sc., Ph.D.

Summary

Intoxicating beverages contain a number of different forms of alcohol,
the major constituent of which is ethanol. When a beverage is consumed
the ethanol content passes through the stomach wall and digestive tract
into the blood stream. Once the ethanol enters circulation it begins
to alter the bodies' biochemistry. One such reaction is to
differentially increase the rates of testosterone (T) and
epitestosterone (E) metabolism. The overall effect of this reaction is
to increase the ratio of T to E excreted in the urine.

It has been reported that ethanol consumption can increase urinary T/E
ratios by 30% - 277% in healthy individuals. Observed changes in
plasma T/E ratios can occur with the consumption of less than 2 pints
of lager. The ingestion of ethanol by an individual will increase the
T/E ratio observed in a urine sample.

It follows that if the effect of ethanol on T/E ratios is calculated
relative to urinary E concentrations, it can be seen that increases in
the ratio are exponential as E concentrations decrease. Individuals
with naturally low E concentrations could, therefore, experience
increases in T/E ratios of ? 940% greater than increases experienced in
an individual with normal E concentrations. Calculations estimate
that in individuals with low urinary E concentration, ratios of 17 to 1
or higher could have resulted from ethanol consumption without any
administration of exogenous T.

The current T/E ratio test as performed by Kings College Laboratory and
approved by the UK Sports, the IWF and IOC cannot discriminate between
a 13 to 1 T/E ratio resulting from ethanol ingestion or a 13 to 1 ratio
resulting from endogenous T administration.