Is this typical road cycling behavior?

[Memphmann]

Originally posted by never_doped
I make it really clear that I don't want anyone hanging on my ass.

There's the card which is highly visible if you're drafting, and then there is my clear warning to 'get off my ass'. If they stay there any longer it's their fault not mine.

If there is a side wind I'll let them ride in the gutter or the oncoming traffic. I was there first and I don't want to spend a day treating road rash or the rest of my life paralyzed because someone I never met or knew before can't stay up without drafting.

If I went in front of people then did this to them it would be wrong. They are racing up to catch me and I don't want them there. I am doing my own thing and would like to be left alone.

Often it happens with I am training with a friend and we are having conversation or running our own paceline.

If you were drafting someone in a car with your car:

A. It's dangerous
B. It's illegal
C. It's stupid (you never know when some lunatic is going to slam on his brakes and then sue you until the end of time.)

This is why almost universally in driving, skiing, swiming laps, that it is the responsibility of the guy in back to maintain a safe and reasonable distance.

A lot of these guys after you pass them speed up and sneak in behind you. It may be minutes before I notice and due to my own focus I may make an erratic movement when a road hazard is there without even knowing they were there.

The bottom line is that one should ask and if someone says no, take them at their word and buzz off.

I agree with this dude. If you have been warned, then what-ever happens next is your fault. When I was at this level, I hated ppl sucking my wheel or throwing off my training. What would have happened if that idiot after being warned, rubbed my rear wheel and caused me to crash into on coming traffic. Would they pay for my bike, loss of income and loss of income for turning pro. No, so all you can do is beat the **** out of them.

Now all I do, is when I catch other riders. Stay about 20-30 feet behind, out of draught. Until I catch my breath and then jump them safely. Then they notice my rear graphx, "SEE YA"......

We all ride at different levels. Ask first and then obey the answer.....

Memph

 

[BugMan]

Feanor,

Pay no attention to the likes of never-doped and Memphmann - they are not representative of the majority of roadies you'll encounter, even those at a high level of skill. Despite their bravado, their belief that a rider touching your rear wheel can take you down suggests either limited experience with group riding or an inability to interact with people in all aspects of life, not just cycling. They do, however, illustrate the importance of asking before latching - you don't need some psycho @$$hole running you into a curb to make a sick point. I encourage you to hook up with other riders whenever the opportunity arises - good riders will teach you something and lesser riders will learn from you. You'll benefit both technically and spiritually.

And prestonjb, let me know if you're ever in St. Louis and we'll hook up for a ride!

 

[Memphmann]

Originally posted by BugMan
Feanor,

Pay no attention to the likes of never-doped and Memphmann - they are not representative of the majority of roadies you'll encounter, even those at a high level of skill. Despite their bravado, their belief that a rider touching your rear wheel can take you down suggests either limited experience with group riding or an inability to interact with people in all aspects of life, not just cycling. They do, however, illustrate the importance of asking before latching - you don't need some psycho @$$hole running you into a curb to make a sick point. I encourage you to hook up with other riders whenever the opportunity arises - good riders will teach you something and lesser riders will learn from you. You'll benefit both technically and spiritually.

And prestonjb, let me know if you're ever in St. Louis and we'll hook up for a ride!

I have great bike handling skill. For this reason, it is why I prefer to race over Sunday group rides. Where I am from, in order to race, you need a licence. At least then you free safer knowing that the other riders have equal bike handling skill.

It is the Sunday group rides or riders jumping up that scare me. Do not know what their skill level is at. I am not going down over their mistake. This is why I always ask if they race. If the answer is yes, then we have a great ride. If no, then I try to drop them fast....

We all ride at different levels and for different reasons. Just like communication when out training. Hey if you see me in the distance and want to chase me down. Great, but if you do, please either ride past or stay 10-20 feet behind.....

Memph

 

[Feanor]

Hiya Bugman!

Thank you for the words of encouragement and to all others who offered them as well...

Memphmann and Never_doped, Though your take on things seemed a bit harsh to this newb I can respect that you're coming from an "intense" and or training point of view... And you can rest assured as well that if I was actually to the point where I was good enough to take someones wheel, I would definitely ask first

I think one of the things that skews the discussion a bit here also is the typical caliber of rider you run into where you ride...

Where I've taken to riding is a main thoroughfare which is exteremely long and straight and flat... and the cyclists that I see on the road 99% of the time are obviously strong riders (the more casual riders go a few miles away to something called the Iron Horse Trail, which is a bike and walking specific trail with no car traffic)

Because of this, you know almost with certainty that riders that come up to you, or that you have the fortune of coming up to are experienced and mature...

As I'm tooling along, pushing it at my stately 15-20 mph I'm regularly passed by riders who seem like they are going about 30 turning over the TALL gears!

In my situation, where I ride, I stay out of their way when they pass, and if one of them closes up to me and takes my wheel, the chances are about 99% they're there to help me out... And that's very much appreciated by me!

I'd like to think that maybe Geonz hit it on the head, maybe the one's who slow to help me out see themselves years before, and in that same vein I see myself (hopefully) years in the future helping someone else out.

In the end, the only thing that will boost cycling enthusiasm to the advantage of everyone, is that sense of community that inspires rather than repels or discourages...

I think that maybe I could tell someone not to draft in behind me, but they would have to be obviously rude, or just trying on purpose to be disruptive or dangerous...

Have a good one all!

Feanor

 

[Memphmann]

Originally posted by Feanor
Hiya Bugman!

Thank you for the words of encouragement and to all others who offered them as well...

Memphmann and Never_doped, Though your take on things seemed a bit harsh to this newb I can respect that you're coming from an "intense" and or training point of view... And you can rest assured as well that if I was actually to the point where I was good enough to take someones wheel, I would definitely ask first

I think one of the things that skews the discussion a bit here also is the typical caliber of rider you run into where you ride...

Where I've taken to riding is a main thoroughfare which is exteremely long and straight and flat... and the cyclists that I see on the road 99% of the time are obviously strong riders (the more casual riders go a few miles away to something called the Iron Horse Trail, which is a bike and walking specific trail with no car traffic)

Because of this, you know almost with certainty that riders that come up to you, or that you have the fortune of coming up to are experienced and mature...

As I'm tooling along, pushing it at my stately 15-20 mph I'm regularly passed by riders who seem like they are going about 30 turning over the TALL gears!

In my situation, where I ride, I stay out of their way when they pass, and if one of them closes up to me and takes my wheel, the chances are about 99% they're there to help me out... And that's very much appreciated by me!

I'd like to think that maybe Geonz hit it on the head, maybe the one's who slow to help me out see themselves years before, and in that same vein I see myself (hopefully) years in the future helping someone else out.

In the end, the only thing that will boost cycling enthusiasm to the advantage of everyone, is that sense of community that inspires rather than repels or discourages...

I think that maybe I could tell someone not to draft in behind me, but they would have to be obviously rude, or just trying on purpose to be disruptive or dangerous...

Have a good one all!

Feanor [/QUOTE

That was well written and I respect your view. I try not to be rude when passing other cyclists. Heck have only been back on the bike a short time myself. So am far from Brian Walton shape. Just there are a few who are rude and try to still stick. Like it is some kind of game.

All in all, you are correct. This is a community that has to respect others. Well maybe not the drivers...

Memph

 

[never_doped]

I'm sure Memph and I understand that it is more likely that the rider that gets his front wheel clipped will go down although good bike handling skills and practicing at low speeds in a field with a friend will teach you how to react when this happens. (I think I learned that from Eddie B's book when I first started riding 20 years ago)

What I am talking about is someone in oxygen deprivation that is looking through a straw and crashes into the back of you when you stop or swerve or let up after your interval or whatever else you are trying to accomplish.

The majority of the time there is safety in numbers. Once I talk to someone and get the feeling that they are safe I don't mind riding with them if I am just getting miles. I am only objecting to the squirrels that latch on without asking, can't or won't pull through or ride erraticallly.

I don't see why I should take on any added risk or even the risk that I make an erratic move and end up getting sued by someone.

None of this makes me an asshole or anti-social. It only makes me someone that is concerned about my health and wealth and does not want to risk either to a stranger.

 

[Shabby]

Perhaps we're a bit more relaxed in Australia, but the idea of asking the hundreds of cyclists you encounter on a weekend ride whether it's OK to sit on their wheel or not is comical. In 10 years of serious riding I've never asked someone, nor been asked for permission.

And it's pretty hard for someone to take you down from behind, unless they're in a car.

I think I'll put a sign above my back brakes saying "I'm happy to drag you home, I'm going this way anyway. And I will punch you in the head if you ask permission."

 

[Feanor]

Originally posted by Shabby I think I'll put a sign above my back brakes saying "I'm happy to drag you home, I'm going this way anyway. And I will punch you in the head if you ask permission."

Shabby,

*laughing* That would be a great sign! and you could have a little bobble-head doll on the back of your seat with the little crosses as eyes to drive that point home!

I have a feeling that the cycling community in Australia is very integrated into the culture there (Watching this years TdF and all the success the Aussie riders had is much proof of that...)

For me, I find even in a town that is probably a bit above average in the number of cyclists you see from day to day, the predominant reaction to anything but a bicycle commuter is a shrug followed by "why?" In my court alone I am the only person who cycles for fun. Not that everyone else is sedentary or anything, most of the other couples run, swim, do martial arts, aerobicise, workout etc... and when they see me on the rollers in the garage or cruise by on my way off to ride, they've got that friendly confused little grin that kind of transmits the message "How quaint" That might prove to be an accurate crosssection of the country as a whole With only extreme examples such as Lance Armstrong and Tyler Hamilton swinging cycling more into the limelight, and even that might be "athlete worship" more than cycling enthusiasm...

I'm at the point in my progress where I feel an obligation to offer a bit of advice when I see something bad (I was chatting with guy at a corner who was on a mountain bike and whose seat was FAR to low... on the bottom of the crank stroke his knee was almost at a 90 degree angle, and as he was pedalling along he was pushing a gear so high that he rocked significantly from side to side under the load.

Luckily he had a quick release on his seat post, and so I was able to raise his seat till his knees were at a much better pedalling angle and suggested he use a lower gear and explained with the limited knowledge I have that a higher cadence with lower gears was much better on the knees than what he was doing (He did mention after that his knees always hurt after riding) He was concerned because he felt like the bars were too low after raising the seat, but as he had straight bars, I said that he should try riser bars to get the hand position higher, and that protecting his knees was a bit more important...

I was taken aback that what he was doing was so obviously wrong and he didn't see it, but then I compared that to the void of knowledge that I had and still have compared to far more experienced cyclists... I think if I helped that one person to like cycling more and get to the next step, than he would keep going and not get discouraged...

Memphmann, I think that your original post was more of a message that you, personally, were working hard toward a goal, and that even though it did sound abrasive, I took it also as a communication that you were'nt wanting to end up as a tangle of bikes in the middle of the road If it _were_ the case that a person taking your wheel was putting both of you at risk, I think trading a bit of abrasiveness might be warranted to avoid the abrasiveness of the pavement But that is a case to case basis I would assume...

I'm loving the road, and I hear that metallic song of the chain rolling over in my sleep now *laughing*

Have a good one all!

Feanor

 

[Geonz]

Seems the intense riders have also forgotten that Feanor did *not* jump on anybody's wheel, at all. The other guy -- with communication, even -- did that.
Feanor, had you been one of these squirrelly riders (who can be a real hazard, but are often educable), the guy probably would have nodded and gone on his merry way - you met a standard
I want one of those Aussie signs, too

 

[Memphmann]

You are correct, it is a rider to rider call. Most are great, when I catch them. We chat for abit and then go on our merry way. Just do not want an accident.

The Aussies were strong at the Tour. Better then us Canucks, there was not a single one of us involved. Not since Steve Bauer..

Memph

 

[Feanor]

Memph,

Have to apologize to you... in the last long message I sent I mentioned why I thought your original message sounded the way it did, But I was really referring to Never_doped's original message... Sorry for the confusion, I must have been tired and bleary eyed All the reasoning in the message remains the same though, and I think its mainly a problem with intent and body english and tone never really coming across well in text messaging...

Have a good one!

Feanor

 

[Memphmann]

Originally posted by Feanor
Memph,

Have to apologize to you... in the last long message I sent I mentioned why I thought your original message sounded the way it did, But I was really referring to Never_doped's original message... Sorry for the confusion, I must have been tired and bleary eyed All the reasoning in the message remains the same though, and I think its mainly a problem with intent and body english and tone never really coming across well in text messaging...

Have a good one!

Feanor

Thank-you, your intent was good. That is all that matters. You seem like someone with great intentions.

SEE YA,
Memph