Is this legal

[Matt]

"Ian Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 22:18:10 +0100, Matt <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> My wife wants to buy one of these
>> http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/0363833.htm ...
>> its a bicycle trailer. She wants to strap my beloved children in
>> the back of it and cart them off to the shops and where ever else.
>> She was just wondering if it is legal ?
>
> Yes it's legal. It's also much safer than a bike-mounted seat (in my
> opinion). It's more stable due to two wheels and lower weight, it
> surrounds teh child in a frame, teh child has less distance to fall if
> it does go, if teh bike falls teh trailer doesn't necesarily go to,
> and motorists give them a very wide bearth. It's also less cramped
> (with one in anyway, quite cramped with two), warmer, and teh cjhild
> can play with a toy or two while you ride.
>
> Personally, there are roads I wouldn't ride along with a trailer, but
> there are many roads and paths where I do.
>
>> Also she wantws to know is it legal to have a child seat on a
>> biycle in the front and the back with a kid each end ?

Thats it, shes wants one on the front bar mouted seat type things and one on
the rear.

> Do you mean a cross-bar mounted seat and rear carrier mounted seat? I
> don't think it's illegal, but it would be difficult to ride.
> Cross-bar mounted seats are generally only rated for quite small
> children. The trailer will be safer and easier, in my opinion.

Thats what I said.

>> Shes really getting into cycling which is great but I'm against
>> both of these ideas above as shes not an experienced rider, and the
>> level of morons who are on the road is scary. But I'm not ******
>> and the last time I checked its a free world (is it?) to do what
>> you like.
>>
>> Any advice welcomed.
>
> Where are you? Can you hire or borrow a trailer and try riding it
> with a sack of stones in, to see how scary (or not) it looks and feels
> before making your decision.

We're off to local bicycle place to give it a try ands ee how it feels. If
shes happy with it then it'll be a nice new toy for her and the kids ahem
and me.

> regards, Ian SMith
>

 

[LSMike]

On Jun 22, 10:18 pm, "Matt" <[email protected]> wrote:
> My wife wants to buy one of thesehttp://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/0363833.htm... its a
> bicycle trailer. She wants to strap my beloved children in the back of it
> and cart them off to the shops and where ever else. She was just wondering
> if it is legal ?

I've used a trailer for quite a while, and would heartily recommend
it. I think it's very safe, motorists tend to just surrender and give
you plenty of time and space. Much more so than you get even on a
recumbent.

Trailers are really good - excellent crash protection, can't fall
over, keep the child warm and comfortable out of the weather, have
space for them to play with toys, and you can carry loads of shopping
too.

 

[Paul Boyd]

On 23/06/2007 13:03, Tony Raven said,

> Just remember if she goes for a child seat on the back, don't mount or
> dismount by throwing your leg over the saddle. Easily done if that's
> what you are used to ;-)

ROTFLMAO

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

 

[Paul Boyd]

On 23/06/2007 12:57, Matt said,

> Opps, just read the post below and gather you have a troll on the lose.

Nope - he's locked up securely in my killfile

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

 

[Graeme Dods]

On Jun 23, 5:16 pm, Simon Brooke <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Yes. It's probably the best way of carrying children, since the trailers
> are fairly stable and in crash tests carried out by the ruthlessly
> efficient sausage eating Germans the trailer tends to get pushed in front
> of a car that hits it without either tipping over or getting crushed
> underneath.

That sounds like interesting research Simon. Any idea where I could
find it as I'd like to read more about it?

Cheers,

Graeme

 

[Roger Burton West]

spokes wrote:

>I suspect also that its very visibility ('what the *********** is *that*?)
>would help...

Definitely true in my recent trailer-pulling experience (my Carry
Freedom Y-Frame Large has finally arrived, hurrah). Significantly fewer
close passes then when I'm on the bike without trailer.

What may become a problem is pedestrians - they seem to think "ah, I'll
cross behind that bike" and don't notice the trailer until they're
practically falling over it...

R

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, Graeme
Dods ('[email protected]') wrote:

> On Jun 23, 5:16 pm, Simon Brooke <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Yes. It's probably the best way of carrying children, since the trailers
>> are fairly stable and in crash tests carried out by the ruthlessly
>> efficient sausage eating Germans the trailer tends to get pushed in
>> front of a car that hits it without either tipping over or getting
>> crushed underneath.
>
> That sounds like interesting research Simon. Any idea where I could
> find it as I'd like to read more about it?

Errrmmmm... it's on the web somewhere. I couldn't find it on a google
search, but it has been discussed on this group previously...

Ah, hang on, here. It is (of course) in German.
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/1033/9602anhaenger.html

Rough translation:

There German insurance industry association this year tested bicycle child
trailers and child seats for the first time, to assess the risk to the
small passenger. Twenty seven crash tests showed clear results: children
are safer in the trailer than on the bicycle...

When hit, the trailer is pushed in front of the car, and in a collision
this saves lives. By contrast children in seats on the bike are likely to
be thrown onto the car and then onto the road. Children in seats mounted
on the handlebar are particularly vulnerable; [something about behind the
saddle but I can't understand it].

The trailer does not fall over as easily as a bicycle, and, even if it does
overturn, the potential for injury is lower...

It goes onto say trailers with a strong frame are better (obviously) and I
think there is something about rigid child seats in the trailer being
better too.

Someone with better German than mine will be along in a minute to do a
better job of it.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Let's have a moment of silence for all those Americans who are stuck
;; in traffic on their way to the gym to ride the stationary bicycle.
;; Rep. Earl Blumenauer (Dem, OR)

 

[Alan Braggins]

In article <[email protected]>, Tony Raven wrote:
>Matt wrote on 23/06/2007 12:59 +0100:
>>
>> Thanks a bunch Danny now shes got even more ideas.
>
>Just remember if she goes for a child seat on the back, don't mount or
>dismount by throwing your leg over the saddle. Easily done if that's
>what you are used to ;-)

Kevin at D.Tek warned me that's the major cause of child injuries
when using trailer cycles.

 

[Martin Dann]

spokes wrote:
> Of course it's legal - would Argos sell it otherwise?

Argos do (or did) sell Blue flashing lights for bikes.
They are only legal for people doing certain jobs.

Martin.

 

[Matt]

Update: she loved it so did I and the kids did to. Bought it right there and
then. After the test run it was purely fantastic. Now for the sodding rain
to shove off and let us have a good ride around with it.

Might even pimp it with a dvd player joking.

Just thought I'd let you kind folks who gave me some sound advice how it
went.

Thanks all *thumbs up*

 

[Steph Peters]

Simon Brooke <[email protected]> of gradually deteriorating wrote:

>in message <[email protected]>, Graeme
>Dods ('[email protected]') wrote:
>
>> On Jun 23, 5:16 pm, Simon Brooke <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes. It's probably the best way of carrying children, since the trailers
>>> are fairly stable and in crash tests carried out by the ruthlessly
>>> efficient sausage eating Germans the trailer tends to get pushed in
>>> front of a car that hits it without either tipping over or getting
>>> crushed underneath.
>>
>> That sounds like interesting research Simon. Any idea where I could
>> find it as I'd like to read more about it?
>
>Errrmmmm... it's on the web somewhere. I couldn't find it on a google
>search, but it has been discussed on this group previously...
>
>Ah, hang on, here. It is (of course) in German.
>http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/1033/9602anhaenger.html
>
>Someone with better German than mine will be along in a minute to do a
>better job of it.
As posted in this group previously, here's my translation

Sedan for the Orphan
Children in trailers are particularly safe

Institutions close to the car industry fulminate against bike trailers for
transport of people, since the bright light sedans are becoming ever more
loved and replacing some second if not first cars. Hard projectiles must
occasionally take the blame for bringing the environmentally friendly
variant of child transportation into disrepute. Dekra* and Bruderhilfe
let it be reported that a car speeding into a trailer can be deadly. That
cars are particularly dangerous for everyone without a crumple zone, is also
sufficiently well known to the car lobby without such self publicity.

There are underwriters who make objective assessments of risk. Last year
for the first time the AZT (technical alliance centre) took the trouble to
compare the danger potential of trailers and traditional child seats for
their little passengers. 27 crash tests give a clear message: children
sit more safely in trailers than on the bike. When AZT chief Dr. Dieter
Anselm gave the results on 21 March 1996 in Munich, he described them as
"surprisingly positive" - the AZT had approached the set of tests with a
certain amount of reservation.

Subjectively children in a trailer look especially vulnerable, situated at
the height of cars' bumpers. But precisely this can save life in the
event of a collision: a car shoves the trailer wholly in front of it, while
the cyclist "high on a horse" is catapulted first onto the car and then onto
the road. The transport of children in the area of the handlebars is
particularly dangerous; above all when they are behind the saddle they
come off lightly in head on collisions.

The trailer does not fall over as easily as a bike - and when it does,
then the height of the fall and the potential for injury are clearly
lower.
With child seats bad accidents can take place when the bike is being
loaded - a trailer with a coupling at axle height remains untouched, when
the towing bike falls over.

The AZT stresses the importance of a stable trailer construction with
full belt harness and the use of helmets, so that the children do not come
into contact with the bumper bar. Unfortunately the correct line for
coupling is missing; the models tested could all have been improved. The
sellers and providers of trailers here are moving into uncharted territory:
paragraph 21of the StVO* forbids carrying people on the "goods area" of a
trailer. This regulation does not directly apply to bike or special child
trailers, but there is room for doubt. In the view of the AZT this is a
pity: "The manufacturers of bike trailers must be given a clearer
legislative framework, so that they can further develop this - so far as we
can determine - currently safest transport mode for children and thereby can
contribute to better protection for children in traffic".

*Translator's notes:
Dekra is a German organisation that tests cars for safety, promoting
themselves as consumer champions, I think funded by the car industry.
Bruderhilfe is an insurer with church connections.
StVO is a German law or regulation.
--
Steph Peters
Chorlton Wanderers Cycling Group
Monthly slow and easy rides from South Manchester
http://www.sandbenders.demon.co.uk/cycling/chwan.htm

 

[Doki]

"LSMike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Trailers are really good - excellent crash protection, can't fall
> over, keep the child warm and comfortable out of the weather, have
> space for them to play with toys, and you can carry loads of shopping
> too.

Compared to seat on a bike, yes. But I really wouldn't expect to come off
well in any sort of accident with a car...

 

[Tony Raven]

Doki wrote on 25/06/2007 01:36 +0100:
>
> "LSMike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> Trailers are really good - excellent crash protection, can't fall
>> over, keep the child warm and comfortable out of the weather, have
>> space for them to play with toys, and you can carry loads of shopping
>> too.
>
> Compared to seat on a bike, yes. But I really wouldn't expect to come
> off well in any sort of accident with a car...

Well one protected Emily Kirwin reasonably well from a direct assault
with a Range Rover.

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, Tony Raven
('[email protected]') wrote:

> Doki wrote on 25/06/2007 01:36 +0100:
>>
>> "LSMike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> Trailers are really good - excellent crash protection, can't fall
>>> over, keep the child warm and comfortable out of the weather, have
>>> space for them to play with toys, and you can carry loads of shopping
>>> too.
>>
>> Compared to seat on a bike, yes. But I really wouldn't expect to come
>> off well in any sort of accident with a car...
>
> Well one protected Emily Kirwin reasonably well from a direct assault
> with a Range Rover.

H'mmmm... not the example I would use. She suffered horrific injuries and
was on the critical list, in a coma, for a week. She has permanent brain
damage and her vision is permanently impaired. Yes, it is remarkable that
she didn't die, but I don't call that 'reasonably good protection'.

However, a range rover is higher than most cars, and all the reports say it
went over Emily's trailer. What the German study found was that cars tend
to push trailers in front of them, not go over them; and that that is why
trailers are (normally) safe.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Anagram: I'm soon broke.

 

[David Martin]

>From my experience a trailer is a wonderful thing. Even when it is
tipping down with rain and two children are sitting warm and snug
making fun of Dad.

For general urban riding (residential streets, cycle paths etc) it is
excellent. The children enjoy it and are well protected from the
weather, and the shopping can be carried as well (either in the
trailer or in panniers, or both).

We had no problem with cars, partly because we were mostly using it in
Norway where the laws are quite severe if you hit a vulnerable road
user. It also converted very rapidly to a pushchair.

Pros of trailer (vs child seat)
Weather protection
Luggage capacity (kids stuff and shopping)
Stability (Even when the bike falls over)
Converts to pushchair so you can wheel it round the shops easily.
Kids can play with toys etc.
Highly visible so cars do give you a lot of space.

Cons (vs child seat)
Hard to hear what is going on with the child (vs being prodded in the
back and asked for xyz)
Bulky for storage
difficulty getting through narrow gates.
Too many people stop you to say what a brilliant idea it is.
Cost. Decent ones do cost money. We spent £500 on ours - the most I
have spent on any bike or bike related item, and sold it last year
after 9 years of use. Definitely worth it though.

...d

 

[Paul Rudin]

David Martin <[email protected]> writes:

> Too many people stop you to say what a brilliant idea it is.
> Cost. Decent ones do cost money. We spent £500 on ours - the most I
> have spent on any bike or bike related item, and sold it last year
> after 9 years of use. Definitely worth it though.

I still use mine 12 years on. I can get a full supermarket trolley's
worth of shopping in the trailer so it means I can do quite a few
errands by bike that I'd otherwise use the car for.