Is Pro cycling dead/dying

Has I have said in another thread, doping in sport generally is going to be very difficult to stamp out completely, all athletes in general should stop think because paradoxicaly they may dope to get better results but people like me who were watching sport are switching off. Less people watch less sponser/TV money, less money for them, less money going into the particular sport they are competing in.

Of course they don't stop and think because the money for better results is their now, but the damage is being done to the next generation in the sport.

So the answer to the our question, is pro cycling dying, it could turn into a much more minority sport if the governing body doesn't start to use draconian measures.....banning for life, banning for life in sport after retirement,(no team management, commentating etc..) stripping of any titles from anytime in the past, all prize and sponser money returned regardless of when.

These idea's would surely have some effect. Do not apply them retrospectively, bring them in from this day on.

If these rules were in place 11 years ago would Riis have injected himself with EPO, would Basso and Ullrich be in disgrace now, would their be so much speculation round Armstrong , lastly and certainly not least would Pantani be DEAD ???? ( i know he didn't die from PED's but his acute depression all stemmed from the Giro in 1999), my opinion is they probably wouldn't of taken the risk.

Jesus Christ WBT goes away for the weekend and look what happens ! You blokes all need to calm down.... this is a good thing and cycling is alive and well..... for months now all of you have been crapping on how cyclists are liars and that they show no honour for the sport.... we’ve all known since Puerto and prior that they are on the gear... now ex-riders are confessing and we are acting shocked ? Come on... we knew what they were up to.... we all knew when DC hired Basso that Ivan had been blood doping..... we need to all grow up and accept that in the 90's and most certainly during the 2000's that the top 40 was doped and good portion more were also..... stop taking the moral high ground and lets work to get the sport cleaned up or do we want to return to the days of silence where we pretend the riders are clean ? The Armstrong way….. or should I say the American way ?

Prano said:

With former telecom riders admitting their doping and recent GT's winners being caught, not to mention the suspicion that surounds cycling in the past as well as today.. Is it time to move on or can we really. IMO there is no other sport like cycling where the benefits of doping are that high.. Of course training and prober diet is also a part of it.. But as Jose Canseco (a doper) said about doping in base ball "doping makes normal into good, good into great and great into worldclass, and thats base ball..

With the current low wages in cycling for the comming young riders can we be assured they wouldn't screew themselves up to be ahead of their ambition with doping or what, is there a solution, or is pro cycling dyiing? ..

Any opinions?

whiteboytrash said:

Jesus Christ WBT goes away for the weekend and look what happens ! You blokes all need to calm down.... this is a good thing and cycling is alive and well..... for months now all of you have been crapping on how cyclists are liars and that they show no honour for the sport.... we’ve all known since Puerto and prior that they are on the gear... now ex-riders are confessing and we are acting shocked ? Come on... we knew what they were up to.... we all knew when DC hired Basso that Ivan had been blood doping..... we need to all grow up and accept that in the 90's and most certainly during the 2000's that the top 40 was doped and good portion more were also..... stop taking the moral high ground and lets work to get the sport cleaned up or do we want to return to the days of silence where we pretend the riders are clean ? The Armstrong way….. or should I say the American way ?

Lets not take the high moral ground, I'm not taking a high moral ground

Look, don't asume that I'm an everyday American boy cause I'm not.. dont be so freaking defensive I know that LA with most probably cause was a doper so chill out mate, but that's not the issue here is it??

Prano said:

With former telecom riders admitting their doping and recent GT's winners being caught, not to mention the suspicion that surounds cycling in the past as well as today.. Is it time to move on or can we really. IMO there is no other sport like cycling where the benefits of doping are that high.. Of course training and prober diet is also a part of it.. But as Jose Canseco (a doper) said about doping in base ball "doping makes normal into good, good into great and great into worldclass, and thats base ball..

With the current low wages in cycling for the comming young riders can we be assured they wouldn't screew themselves up to be ahead of their ambition with doping or what, is there a solution, or is pro cycling dyiing? ..

Any opinions?

I would disagree that it is Cycling is a sport that benifits mostly from doping. In fact compared to what pro bodyduilders take what Cyclists take is nothing. Pro body builders use scary amounts of Steroids, growth hormones , insulins for growth. Every thing that they do, is geared on growth. I have friends that are in the amatuer ranks of body building and what I have seen them taking is disturbing. They say that it is not a question so much as genetics but how much "gear" that you dare take or that you can afford. So with this in mind how come we have the Mr universe and the Mr Olympia in Bodybuilding ( comparable to the tour de france) with drug tests yet no one ever gets caught? There is not one guy, not a percentage! not one guy on that stage which is not taking huge amounts of drugs. Alot of these body builders are braking into the pro ranks at tender ages like twenty years old and started there doping around the ages of sixteen or seventeen.Using very course testosterones such as Dianobol and Sustanon which are the poorest of all growth drugs in relation to harmfull effects that they have on the body. More than any cyclist at that age I would bet. Cycling as a whole is generally more pro active(on the surface anyway) in tring to illuminate these problems. But the problem lies with the fact that many of the guys invovled in running teams were past champions or domestiques. In other words they now what it really takes to be able to do what they do day in day out at that level. Dope or be left behind. I do not ever envisage a finish to doping. Not in cycling or any other sport. It is a shame but would we have the spectacles of the Grand Tours without it, being as exciting as they are to watch. cheers

nath1 said:

I would disagree that it is Cycling is a sport that benifits mostly from doping. In fact compared to what pro bodyduilders take what Cyclists take is nothing. Pro body builders use scary amounts of Steroids, growth hormones , insulins for growth. Every thing that they do, is geared on growth. I have friends that are in the amatuer ranks of body building and what I have seen them taking is disturbing. They say that it is not a question so much as genetics but how much "gear" that you dare take or that you can afford. So with this in mind how come we have the Mr universe and the Mr Olympia in Bodybuilding ( comparable to the tour de france) with drug tests yet no one ever gets caught? There is not one guy, not a percentage! not one guy on that stage which is not taking huge amounts of drugs. Alot of these body builders are braking into the pro ranks at tender ages like twenty years old and started there doping around the ages of sixteen or seventeen.Using very course testosterones such as Dianobol and Sustanon which are the poorest of all growth drugs in relation to harmfull effects that they have on the body. More than any cyclist at that age I would bet. Cycling as a whole is generally more pro active(on the surface anyway) in tring to illuminate these problems. But the problem lies with the fact that many of the guys invovled in running teams were past champions or domestiques. In other words they now what it really takes to be able to do what they do day in day out at that level. Dope or be left behind. I do not ever envisage a finish to doping. Not in cycling or any other sport. It is a shame but would we have the spectacles of the Grand Tours without it, being as exciting as they are to watch. cheers

I agree with you.

Narth1, please don't be that naive to compare cycling with bodyboulding, I'm not meaning to disgrace bodybuilding, I'm an amateur cyclist but bodyboulding is hardly a sport, it is what it's called "Body building" Where the performance is showing your muscles not what you can do with your muscles.

Doping in bodybuiding should be of no issue in cycling...

Prano said:

Narth1, please don't be that naive to compare cycling with bodyboulding, I'm not meaning to disgrace bodybuilding, I'm an amateur cyclist but bodyboulding is hardly a sport, it is what it's called "Body building" Where the performance is showing your muscles not what you can do with your muscles.

Doping in bodybuiding should be of no issue in cycling...

Is golfing a sport?

The reason fro this thread was to hear the current sitiution and possible future in cycling, not making some excuses on behalf some other sports.. Of course there are dopers in athletics, football(nfl),football(the real deal), basket ball, base ball, badminton, tennis, ping pong who knows But again, as it rigth now there is no credibility in cycling,or is there??

kspangler said:

Is golfing a sport?

yes it is and tou can get caught doping. apperently by using some relaxing medicin..

That is naivity in itself. I mean just because you follow cycling does not mean that other sports that YOU do not follow are not. Cyclists train for hours a day. So do Bodybuilders, in fact twice a day. Lifting massive weights and using very scientific methods to build muscle. There diets are second to none . Like cyclists diets are too. Most Bodybuilders does alot of cardio work to support there training at least an hour a day on top of there three or so hours of weights. When you say that it cannot be a sport because all they do is show off there muscles WELL do cyclists only train to show off how fast they can go? Well yes that is the point! Both aheletes do it for personal reasons. And believe it or not both use their muscles! Mad hey. I think you would be hurt if a Body builder poohed the sport of cycling saying it is "easy" , you just have to "pedal". That is what you are saying about Bodybuilding. Who is being naive? Get yourself down to a gym, a real gym and open your eyes to what these guys do. With regards to this is a thread of cycling longevity and that it is diverting away from the point. The point is, do you think for a minute that if all the pro's were to admit they dope that cycling would finnish and that no one would follow it ever again and in fact the racer style bike would be outlawed. I do not think so. It would move on, people will ALWAYS dope no matter what. Just like there will always be crime but in a perfect world there would not be. nath

=Prano]Narth1, please don't be that naive to compare cycling with bodyboulding, I'm not meaning to disgrace bodybuilding, I'm an amateur cyclist but bodyboulding is hardly a sport, it is what it's called "Body building" Where the performance is showing your muscles not what you can do with your muscles.

Doping in bodybuiding should be of no issue in cycling...[/QUOTE]

We have to remember that, unlike the amphetamines and steroids of years past, the current biotech drugs offer huge gains in performance. This isn't 1980 any more. One can really get ahead by cheating. It isn't just cycling - remember the footballers that weren't named in Puerto. Reason? Football is very popular, generates huge revenues for a lot of people, and Spain hosted the WC - big financial incentive to hush it up. Cycling, being less popular, is a safe target for the journalists. It's dirty, so by inference, your favorite sport is clean.

But, being the eternal optimist, I think there is hope. If cycling acts decisively now, it can put itself in a position to be viewed as the clean sport, when (not if) doping scandals break out in the more popular sports. And they will, there is too much financial incentive, and not enough oversight, in the more popular sports. I would suggest that this be done:

1. Break up the UCI. Separate oversight of the sport from promotion of the sport. In that sort of conflict, money will always win out. Separate the two, so that financial pressures aren't brought to bear on the oversight. That is probably the reason that cycling wasn't cleaned up after Festina. We must have faith in impartial oversight, and that oversight must have an incentive to push forward, free of financial pressures. That's no small point. I used to develop software in the thoroughbred racehorse industry, and I've seen how the lure of easy money brings out the worst in a person.

2. Beef up WADA. Fund a single central lab where doping tests are refined, and conducted under observable circumstances. Automate the process so that human error or deliberate action can't alter results. The FL case should have been a wake up call - if he can blow holes in the testing, so can others. We need absolute faith, and transparency, in the testing process. That includes not having an iconoclast in charge of the organization. Pound is interesting, but he doesn't put forth the image of being impartial. His focus on Armstrong while the biggest doping scandal in history brewed right under his abnormally large nose is the best reason to move him out.

3. Put Puerto to rest, now. Offer a general amnesty to any Puerto doper - this season is trashed anyway, with all the revelations. A one year ban if you come clean. Give them a three month window to confess, with details. After that three months, everyone does a DNA test. if your blood matches what is in Spain, or other confessions reveal evidence to implicate you, it's a lifetime ban. We don't need dopers in the sport. If Puerto continues to dribble out accusations over the next couple of years, cycling will be seriously injured.

As exciting as some of the racing was in the last decade, think of a GT where fatigue is a major factor. It will alter the tactics considerably, just as it did in the pre-biotech drug days. Cycling is still a beautiful sport.

JohnO said:

We have to remember that, unlike the amphetamines and steroids of years past, the current biotech drugs offer huge gains in performance. This isn't 1980 any more. One can really get ahead by cheating. It isn't just cycling - remember the footballers that weren't named in Puerto. Reason? Football is very popular, generates huge revenues for a lot of people, and Spain hosted the WC - big financial incentive to hush it up. Cycling, being less popular, is a safe target for the journalists. It's dirty, so by inference, your favorite sport is clean.

But, being the eternal optimist, I think there is hope. If cycling acts decisively now, it can put itself in a position to be viewed as the clean sport, when (not if) doping scandals break out in the more popular sports. And they will, there is too much financial incentive, and not enough oversight, in the more popular sports. I would suggest that this be done:

1. Break up the UCI. Separate oversight of the sport from promotion of the sport. In that sort of conflict, money will always win out. Separate the two, so that financial pressures aren't brought to bear on the oversight. That is probably the reason that cycling wasn't cleaned up after Festina. We must have faith in impartial oversight, and that oversight must have an incentive to push forward, free of financial pressures. That's no small point. I used to develop software in the thoroughbred racehorse industry, and I've seen how the lure of easy money brings out the worst in a person.

2. Beef up WADA. Fund a single central lab where doping tests are refined, and conducted under observable circumstances. Automate the process so that human error or deliberate action can't alter results. The FL case should have been a wake up call - if he can blow holes in the testing, so can others. We need absolute faith, and transparency, in the testing process. That includes not having an iconoclast in charge of the organization. Pound is interesting, but he doesn't put forth the image of being impartial. His focus on Armstrong while the biggest doping scandal in history brewed right under his abnormally large nose is the best reason to move him out.

3. Put Puerto to rest, now. Offer a general amnesty to any Puerto doper - this season is trashed anyway, with all the revelations. A one year ban if you come clean. Give them a three month window to confess, with details. After that three months, everyone does a DNA test. if your blood matches what is in Spain, or other confessions reveal evidence to implicate you, it's a lifetime ban. We don't need dopers in the sport. If Puerto continues to dribble out accusations over the next couple of years, cycling will be seriously injured.

As exciting as some of the racing was in the last decade, think of a GT where fatigue is a major factor. It will alter the tactics considerably, just as it did in the pre-biotech drug days. Cycling is still a beautiful sport.

Yes perfect answer. I totally agree with your point. nath

If you are following the Giro at the moment you wouldn't be able to say that cycling is dead or even dying. Two epic stages in a row.

Sometimes you have to hit bottom before you can bounce back. Cycling is not dead. These admissions are a positve thing. They will eventually help the sport. Hopefully, all you guys out there that defend the Armstrongs, Landis, Bassos, etc. will realize that you are being naive and are contributing to the problems.

However, we haven't hit bottom yet and the sport is not magically clean now. DiLuca is still in pink.

Eldrack said:

If you are following the Giro at the moment you wouldn't be able to say that cycling is dead or even dying. Two epic stages in a row.

whiteboytrash said:

or should I say the American way ?

Pfft, WBT.

JohnO said:

We have to remember that, unlike the amphetamines and steroids of years past, the current biotech drugs offer huge gains in performance. This isn't 1980 any more. One can really get ahead by cheating. It isn't just cycling - remember the footballers that weren't named in Puerto. Reason? Football is very popular, generates huge revenues for a lot of people, and Spain hosted the WC - big financial incentive to hush it up. Cycling, being less popular, is a safe target for the journalists. It's dirty, so by inference, your favorite sport is clean.

Well Germany hosted the WC... Spain has never hosted... what are you talking about ?

whiteboytrash said:

Well Germany hosted the WC... Spain has never hosted... what are you talking about ?

[censored] !!