Is my frame about to collapse?

Tony Green said:

I ride a Saracen Hi-Flyer aluminium-framed hybrid (about 8-10 years
old) and I've noticed a worrying creaking noise (well possibly more a
short burst of closely-spaced clicks) when I push down on the left
pedal with any real force.

At first I thought it was the chain rubbing against the front changer,
but I've eliminated this possibility with adjustment (at one point so
far the wrong way that it WAS rubbing and that was a different noise.)

I've noticed that if I stand on that pedal while stationary with
brakes hard on, the frame seems to deflect what SEEMS to be a long
way (to me at least)

All frames flex when stressed like that. How much is normal depends on
your frame and weight, which I don't know.

Quoted message said:

Is this likely to be a sign of imminent frame failure? Or could it be
something wrong with the bottom-bracket unit (which I replaced about 5
years ago)?

Most likely it's just something to do with the BB or some other component
on the bike.

See the recent thread on this newsgroup entitled "creaking - bottom
bracket".

If cassette gears, second thing I would do is grease the splines.
Cassette is an unlikely cause but the job is easy if you have the tools,
and it will save a lot of other work if it happens to be right. First
thing: check chainring bolts are tight.

Could be something to do with seatpost or saddle or even handlebars or
stem.

~PB

Tony Green said:

I've noticed that if I stand on that pedal while stationary with brakes
hard on, the frame seems to deflect what SEEMS to be a long way
(to me at least)

Flex in the tyres can give the impression of flex in the frame when one
pedal is loaded. The frame is flexing, but relatively little.

Quoted message said:

Is this likely to be a sign of imminent frame failure?

No. Check carefully for cracks, but if none are visible, imminent frame
failure is unlikely.

James Thomson

"Tony Green" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I ride a Saracen Hi-Flyer aluminium-framed hybrid (about 8-10 years old)
and I've noticed a worrying creaking noise (well possibly more a short
burst of closely-spaced clicks) when I push down on the left pedal with any
real force.

At first I thought it was the chain rubbing against the front changer, but
I've eliminated this possibility with adjustment (at one point so far the
wrong way that it WAS rubbing and that was a different noise.)

I've noticed that if I stand on that pedal while stationary with brakes
hard on, the frame seems to deflect what SEEMS to be a long way (to me at
least)

Is this likely to be a sign of imminent frame failure? Or could it be
something wrong with the bottom-bracket unit (which I replaced about 5
years ago)?

Any tips gratefully received, as I don't particularly want to have my
frame falling apart when I'm 25 miles from home or in traffic.

You want to look for cracks. Basically, all aluminium frames will fail
eventually whereas steel lasts practically forever.

James Thomson said:

Tony Green said:

I've noticed that if I stand on that pedal while stationary with brakes
hard on, the frame seems to deflect what SEEMS to be a long way
(to me at least)

Flex in the tyres can give the impression of flex in the frame when one
pedal is loaded. The frame is flexing, but relatively little.

Quoted message said:

Is this likely to be a sign of imminent frame failure?

No. Check carefully for cracks, but if none are visible, imminent frame
failure is unlikely.

That's reassuring. I've had a look around the area and couldn't see any.
Thanks.
--
Tony Green
http://www.beermad.org.uk

Doki said:

You want to look for cracks. Basically, all aluminium frames will fail
eventually whereas steel lasts practically forever.

I couldn't see any, but I wish I'd known what you say about aluminium
tubes before I bought it :-(

--
Tony Green
http://www.beermad.org.uk

Pete Biggs said:

All frames flex when stressed like that. How much is normal depends on
your frame and weight, which I don't know.

Shame I never looked at how much it flexed BEFORE I got worried ;-)

Quoted message said:

Most likely it's just something to do with the BB or some other component
on the bike.

See the recent thread on this newsgroup entitled "creaking - bottom
bracket".

If cassette gears, second thing I would do is grease the splines.
Cassette is an unlikely cause but the job is easy if you have the tools,
and it will save a lot of other work if it happens to be right. First
thing: check chainring bolts are tight.

Could be something to do with seatpost or saddle or even handlebars or
stem.

Useful things to look at. Thanks.

--
Tony Green
http://www.beermad.org.uk

Could be loose crank, see earlier threads.

cheers
Jacob

Tony Green said:

Doki said:

You want to look for cracks. Basically, all aluminium frames will
fail eventually whereas steel lasts practically forever.

I couldn't see any, but I wish I'd known what you say about aluminium
tubes before I bought it :-(

That said, only extremely light alumium race bikes which are ridden a lot
are particularly likely to fail in the first hundred thousand miles or so.

After all, there are rather a lot of aluminium tubes up there that go
upwards of ten thousand miles a day, and they haven't been prone to failure
in service since the 1950s.
--
Ambrose

Ambrose Nankivell said:

Tony Green said:

Doki said:

You want to look for cracks. Basically, all aluminium frames will
fail eventually whereas steel lasts practically forever.

I couldn't see any, but I wish I'd known what you say about aluminium
tubes before I bought it :-(

That said, only extremely light alumium race bikes which are ridden a
lot are particularly likely to fail in the first hundred thousand miles
or so.

Reassuring. As it's a hybrid, it's certainly not extremely light. And
even with the mileage I'm putting in since leaving work, it'll be a
while before I hit a hundred thousand miles.

Quoted message said:

--
Tony Green
http://www.beermad.org.uk

in message <[email hidden]>, Tony Green

(') said:

I ride a Saracen Hi-Flyer aluminium-framed hybrid (about 8-10 years
old) and I've noticed a worrying creaking noise (well possibly more a
short burst of closely-spaced clicks) when I push down on the left
pedal with any real force.

Bottom bracket bearing. Cheap, and simple to replace. In fact, if it's
not gone too far, a bit of grease may be all that's needed.

I'm not saying I guarantee your frame's all right. And I've had one bike
with those symptoms where I eventually traced the trouble to the
drive-side bearing of the rear hub. But it sounds like bottom bracket to
me, and, as I say, they're cheap; so replace it first and see if it
cures the problem.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; in faecibus sapiens rheum propagabit

Tony Green said:

I ride a Saracen Hi-Flyer aluminium-framed hybrid (about 8-10 years old)
and I've noticed a worrying creaking noise (well possibly more a short
burst of closely-spaced clicks) when I push down on the left pedal with
any real force.

At first I thought it was the chain rubbing against the front changer,
but I've eliminated this possibility with adjustment (at one point so
far the wrong way that it WAS rubbing and that was a different noise.)

I've noticed that if I stand on that pedal while stationary with brakes
hard on, the frame seems to deflect what SEEMS to be a long way (to me
at least)

Is this likely to be a sign of imminent frame failure? Or could it be
something wrong with the bottom-bracket unit (which I replaced about 5
years ago)?

Any tips gratefully received, as I don't particularly want to have my
frame falling apart when I'm 25 miles from home or in traffic.

Tony,

Good to hear you are still around - is retirement treating you well?

As oyhers have said it could be anything around the bottom bracket area
or even seat-post or handlebar stem. Check pedals, cranks, BB as well
as looking for cracks.

You are welcome to cycle over to Woodbridge for me to give it a check
over for you

pete

--
"You can't see paradise if you don't pedal" (Fowler, Chicken Run)

in message <[email hidden]>, Tony Green

(') said:

Doki said:

You want to look for cracks. Basically, all aluminium frames will fail
eventually whereas steel lasts practically forever.

I couldn't see any, but I wish I'd known what you say about aluminium
tubes before I bought it :-(

Prejudice.

In the only formal test of this I know of, the steel frames cracked and
the aluminium ones didn't. Cannondale have been making 'guaranteed for
life' aluminium frames for thirty years, and they're still in business.

Aluminium frames certainly /can/ crack, just as steel frames /can/. A
cracked aluminium frame is generally not economic to repair, whereas
brazed steel frames are inexpensive to repair. But there are plenty of
very old, very light, uncracked aluminium frames out there, so I
wouldn't worry too much.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

[ This mind intentionally left blank ]

Tony Green said:

Any tips gratefully received, as I don't particularly want to have my
frame falling apart when I'm 25 miles from home or in traffic.

Doesn't sound like frame failures. Could be the bottom bracket or just
the cups on the bottom bracket coming loose or the crank coming loose on
the axle or the pedal needing some grease on the threads that screw into
the crank.

Happy hunting

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham

Doki said:

You want to look for cracks. Basically, all aluminium frames will fail
eventually whereas steel lasts practically forever.

The evidence is otherwise. In the EFBe frame fatigue tests half the
aluminium ones survived the complete test, none of the steel ones did
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/EFBe/frame_fatigue_test.htm

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You want to look for cracks. Basically, all aluminium frames will fail
eventually whereas steel lasts practically forever.

The evidence is otherwise. In the EFBe frame fatigue tests half the
aluminium ones survived the complete test, none of the steel ones did
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/EFBe/frame_fatigue_test.htm

Tho it's worth noting that:

"The fact that aluminum and carbon frames in this test lasted longer than
the steel frames is not in our estimate a question of the material, but the
design effort. Not the material, but its skillful use gives the result."

Simon Brooke said:

Prejudice.

In the only formal test of this I know of, the steel frames cracked and
the aluminium ones didn't. Cannondale have been making 'guaranteed for
life' aluminium frames for thirty years, and they're still in business.

Ferchrissake Simon will you stop agreeing with me!!! ;-)

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Tony Green

(') said:

I ride a Saracen Hi-Flyer aluminium-framed hybrid (about 8-10 years
old) and I've noticed a worrying creaking noise (well possibly more a
short burst of closely-spaced clicks) when I push down on the left
pedal with any real force.

Bottom bracket bearing. Cheap, and simple to replace. In fact, if it's
not gone too far, a bit of grease may be all that's needed.

I'm not saying I guarantee your frame's all right. And I've had one bike
with those symptoms where I eventually traced the trouble to the
drive-side bearing of the rear hub. But it sounds like bottom bracket to
me, and, as I say, they're cheap; so replace it first and see if it
cures the problem.

Sounds good, thanks. I have replaced it once in the past (can't remember
why) so at least I know I've got the tools :-)

--
Tony Green
http://www.beermad.org.uk

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Tony Green

(') said:

Doki said:

You want to look for cracks. Basically, all aluminium frames will fail
eventually whereas steel lasts practically forever.

I couldn't see any, but I wish I'd known what you say about aluminium
tubes before I bought it :-(

Prejudice.

In the only formal test of this I know of, the steel frames cracked and
the aluminium ones didn't. Cannondale have been making 'guaranteed for
life' aluminium frames for thirty years, and they're still in business.

Aluminium frames certainly /can/ crack, just as steel frames /can/. A
cracked aluminium frame is generally not economic to repair, whereas
brazed steel frames are inexpensive to repair. But there are plenty of
very old, very light, uncracked aluminium frames out there, so I
wouldn't worry too much.

Oh good. That saves me a few hundred quid :-)

--
Tony Green
http://www.beermad.org.uk

Pete Whelan said:

Good to hear you are still around - is retirement treating you well?

Hi Pete,

I could certainly get used to the lifestyle. I've been enjoying it so
much I haven't got round to setting up the web-design business I was
planning.

It's certainly nice to have the time to go out for long rides any day
the weather's good enough :-)

Quoted message said:

As oyhers have said it could be anything around the bottom bracket area
or even seat-post or handlebar stem. Check pedals, cranks, BB as well
as looking for cracks.

Reckon I'll be getting a new BB for starters.

Quoted message said:

You are welcome to cycle over to Woodbridge for me to give it a check
over for you

Thanks Pete. With luck, the other tips will save me having to bother you...

--
Tony Green
http://www.beermad.org.uk