Is MLM a Scam

"Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

In this post Davey demonstratges that he lacks basic memory rentention
skills and the ability to read and understand.

Quoted message said:

Some people confuse an MLM marketing plan with the illegal pyramids that
were prevalent in the 1970's.

I have told you that I am not in the slightest way confused about this
issue. The legality of MLM schems is, at best, tenuous.

Quoted message said:

Because they harmed people, financially,
pyramid schemes have been outlawed by both lawmakers and the public.

Only lawmakers can outlaw anything. Rational people can scorn them.

Quoted message said:

The assumption that all MLM companies are scams shows a very cynical and

dim

Quoted message said:

view of all people
because MLM's are about people.

Can you point to where I claimed that *all* MLM companies are scams? Care
for another helping of red herring?

Quoted message said:

Millions of people. When you call an MLM a
bad thing, you are calling all those people stupid or crooked, or however
that negative thinking goes.

As I have pointed out to you, I do not call all of the people who partake in
MLMing stupid, crooked, etc. I call those who start them up and push them as
a road to riches as being crooked. The others are often dupes, i.e., victims
of the scam.

Quoted message said:

One person on this newsgroup summed up the whole point of the MLM concept
(and showed where his knowledge of an MLM came from) by saying his parents
are Amway Distributors, but, he said thats alright because they just sell
soap to their friends.

That person would be me. First off, I said it was my aunt and uncle.

Second, Amway made numerous products when my aunt and uncle were involved
with it. Thus, referring to soap is just dumb.

Quoted message said:

Amway has the most intrusive marketing plan of any
MLM that I know,

You have no idea what period my *aunt & uncle* were involved with it.

Quoted message said:

but his parents are able to participate in whatever way
they wish.

Aunt and uncle. Try reading, remembering and comprehending.

Quoted message said:

That is the whole spirit of the MLM concept. Its not about evil
companies. Its not about evil company founders.

Utter bull [censored]. It is the companies and the founder who rake it in for the
hard work of many people.

Quoted message said:

Its about the people. Its
called an "opportunity" because it allows people who don't have the
capabilities to found a corporation, to have a business of their own, with
no appreciable investment, part time or fulltime. They have the choice to
offer for sale products to their friends, relatives or
strangers. It is their own choice. They can sponsor and train others if

they

Quoted message said:

wish. Or not.

It still is a questionable scheme.

Quoted message said:

So to make a sweeping statement that MLM's are a scam, would be ignorant.

The way MLM is done is akin to a pyramid scheme and AFAIAC, a scam on those
people who buy into it.They do have to buy product to sell it.

"Mark Probert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

In this post Davey demonstratges that he lacks basic memory rentention
skills and the ability to read and understand.

Quoted message said:

Some people confuse an MLM marketing plan with the illegal pyramids

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

were prevalent in the 1970's.

I have told you that I am not in the slightest way confused about this
issue. The legality of MLM schems is, at best, tenuous.

Was this written just for you, sweetie?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Because they harmed people, financially,
pyramid schemes have been outlawed by both lawmakers and the public.

Only lawmakers can outlaw anything. Rational people can scorn them.

Quoted message said:

The assumption that all MLM companies are scams shows a very cynical and

dim

Quoted message said:

view of all people
because MLM's are about people.

Can you point to where I claimed that *all* MLM companies are scams? Care
for another helping of red herring?

Me, me, me, how did this get so personal, honey?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Millions of people. When you call an MLM a
bad thing, you are calling all those people stupid or crooked, or

however

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that negative thinking goes.

As I have pointed out to you, I do not call all of the people who partake

in

Quoted message said:

MLMing stupid, crooked, etc. I call those who start them up and push them

as

Quoted message said:

a road to riches as being crooked. The others are often dupes, i.e.,

victims

Quoted message said:

of the scam.

Quoted message said:

One person on this newsgroup summed up the whole point of the MLM

concept

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(and showed where his knowledge of an MLM came from) by saying his

parents

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

are Amway Distributors, but, he said thats alright because they just

sell

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

soap to their friends.

That person would be me. First off, I said it was my aunt and uncle.

Me, me, me, when is it my turn!

Quoted message said:

Second, Amway made numerous products when my aunt and uncle were involved
with it. Thus, referring to soap is just dumb.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Amway has the most intrusive marketing plan of any
MLM that I know,

You have no idea what period my *aunt & uncle* were involved with it.

Quoted message said:

but his parents are able to participate in whatever way
they wish.

Aunt and uncle. Try reading, remembering and comprehending.

Quoted message said:

That is the whole spirit of the MLM concept. Its not about evil
companies. Its not about evil company founders.

Utter bull [censored]. It is the companies and the founder who rake it in for

the

Quoted message said:

hard work of many people.

Quoted message said:

Its about the people. Its
called an "opportunity" because it allows people who don't have the
capabilities to found a corporation, to have a business of their own,

with

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

no appreciable investment, part time or fulltime. They have the choice

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

offer for sale products to their friends, relatives or
strangers. It is their own choice. They can sponsor and train others if

they

Quoted message said:

wish. Or not.

It still is a questionable scheme.

Me, me, me, again. It's obviously not for you, and that's just fine.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So to make a sweeping statement that MLM's are a scam, would be

ignorant.

Quoted message said:

The way MLM is done is akin to a pyramid scheme and AFAIAC, a scam on

those

Quoted message said:

people who buy into it.They do have to buy product to sell it.

That is true, the timing and how much product is determined on an individual
basis.

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Is MLM a Scam
From: "Mark Probert" [email hidden]
Date: 9/9/2003 2:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In this post Davey demonstratges that he lacks basic memory rentention
skills and the ability to read and understand.

but Mark...

just think it WAS the ginseng that "cured" Davey of the damage that 43 years of
smoking did to his lungs!!!

and in just 3 months...

yikes...

hawki

"Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark Probert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

In this post Davey demonstratges that he lacks basic memory rentention
skills and the ability to read and understand.

Quoted message said:

Some people confuse an MLM marketing plan with the illegal pyramids

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

were prevalent in the 1970's.

I have told you that I am not in the slightest way confused about this
issue. The legality of MLM schems is, at best, tenuous.

Was this written just for you, sweetie?

You are not my type. I like intellignet people.

Apparently yes, as you raised Amway. As I pointed out, above, you do have
problems with memory.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Because they harmed people, financially,
pyramid schemes have been outlawed by both lawmakers and the public.

Only lawmakers can outlaw anything. Rational people can scorn them.

Quoted message said:

The assumption that all MLM companies are scams shows a very cynical

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

dim

Quoted message said:

view of all people
because MLM's are about people.

Can you point to where I claimed that *all* MLM companies are scams?

Care

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for another helping of red herring?

Me, me, me, how did this get so personal, honey?

As I said, YOU raised Amway, and I was the only perosn mentioning it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Millions of people. When you call an MLM a
bad thing, you are calling all those people stupid or crooked, or

however

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that negative thinking goes.

As I have pointed out to you, I do not call all of the people who

partake

Quoted message said:

in

Quoted message said:

MLMing stupid, crooked, etc. I call those who start them up and push

them

Quoted message said:

as

Quoted message said:

a road to riches as being crooked. The others are often dupes, i.e.,

victims

Quoted message said:

of the scam.

Quoted message said:

One person on this newsgroup summed up the whole point of the MLM

concept

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(and showed where his knowledge of an MLM came from) by saying his

parents

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

are Amway Distributors, but, he said thats alright because they just

sell

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

soap to their friends.

That person would be me. First off, I said it was my aunt and uncle.

Me, me, me, when is it my turn!

It is your turn to go to your room. No computer tonight.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Second, Amway made numerous products when my aunt and uncle were

involved

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with it. Thus, referring to soap is just dumb.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Amway has the most intrusive marketing plan of any
MLM that I know,

You have no idea what period my *aunt & uncle* were involved with it.

Quoted message said:

but his parents are able to participate in whatever way
they wish.

Aunt and uncle. Try reading, remembering and comprehending.

Quoted message said:

That is the whole spirit of the MLM concept. Its not about evil
companies. Its not about evil company founders.

Utter bull [censored]. It is the companies and the founder who rake it in for

the

Quoted message said:

hard work of many people.

Quoted message said:

Its about the people. Its
called an "opportunity" because it allows people who don't have the
capabilities to found a corporation, to have a business of their own,

with

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

no appreciable investment, part time or fulltime. They have the choice

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

offer for sale products to their friends, relatives or
strangers. It is their own choice. They can sponsor and train others

if

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

they

Quoted message said:

wish. Or not.

It still is a questionable scheme.

Me, me, me, again. It's obviously not for you, and that's just fine.

I fail to see where I mentioned myself in that comment. Again, your reading
comprehension skills are in need of a tune up.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So to make a sweeping statement that MLM's are a scam, would be

ignorant.

Quoted message said:

The way MLM is done is akin to a pyramid scheme and AFAIAC, a scam on

those

Quoted message said:

people who buy into it.They do have to buy product to sell it.

That is true, the timing and how much product is determined on an

individual

Quoted message said:

basis.

Can you try to post something substantive in reponse to my well written and
reasoned post?

But, no computer for you tonight.

Dave said:

Some people confuse an MLM marketing plan with the illegal pyramids that
were prevalent in the 1970's. Because they harmed people, financially,
pyramid schemes have been outlawed by both lawmakers and the public.

The assumption that all MLM companies are scams shows a very cynical and dim
view of all people
because MLM's are about people. Millions of people. When you call an MLM a
bad thing, you are calling all those people stupid or crooked, or however
that negative thinking goes.

I recently received some spam e-mail from a Multi-Level Marketing lady
hawking "Lifeforce" health products. She seems like a nice person, but
I had to tell her the truth. Here's my reply:

.................

Thanks xxxxxx, but I'm already too familiar with the perverse
influences of MLM. It's an unhealthy, all-consuming lifestyle.

For starters, the goods sold via multi-level marketing will, by the
fundamental nature of MLM, exhibit artificially inflated end-user
prices. This borders on unethical because there are any number of
"down-line" payoffs which had nothing to do with the sale, other than
"signing up new recruits" in a ideal endless pyramid. Take any MLM
product and sell it via a traditional chain (mfr ==>
wholesale/distribution ==> retailer) and that same product will
generally sell for a fraction of its MLM pyramidal mark ups.

MLM has the added dimension of recruitment, which is contrary to both
efficiency and fairness. Building one's down-line is the only viable
method for serious MLM prosperity, and such a scheme is largely
dependent upon "who arrived first" to the party, not necessarily the
skill or perseverance of the individual. Take any MLM model to its
extreme and we run out of people to recruit. Such MLM schemes are
almost always accompanied by a strong "motivational" agenda, sometimes
bordering on cult-like ritual.

For proof, simply take a look at MLM's biggest success story. Amway's
most recent SA-4400 report (as required by FTC) shows an extreme
degree of down-line turnover and the need for top-level distributors
(of which there are in reality very few) to continually harvest new
down-line. At the top, it's not about "product" but almost entirely
focused on motivation and cheer leading -- feeding people their daily
dose of dreams. It's well established that less than 1% of people who
become multi-level distributors ever turn a true profit, and that
those who achieve a sustainable living are a much smaller percentage
still.

Distributors are fond of calling MLM the "wave of the future." But
after 50+ years of MLM, far less than 1% of all retail sales are made
via MLM models. And most of those new sales are from hopeful new
distributors who are "paying the price of admission to a business they
will soon abandon." Xxxxxx, you seem to have convinced yourself that
all is well in pyramid land. But for every MLM "success story" there
are untold masses of burnt out wannabes who worked hard to grow a
business, enriching their up-line in the process, but ultimately
becoming just another sad MLM statistic. I would not want this on my
conscious.

Indeed, MLM is growing -- in the same way legalized gambling and
lotteries are growing. The compulsive desire to "get rich quick" and
"live the life" is more powerful now than at any time in American, and
perhaps world, history. And just as obsessive gambling can destroy
families, MLM marketing tends to commercialize and cheapen family and
friendship relationships. It's an MLM lesson I learned long ago --
friends and family are not business prospects. Such a mind-set
(pervasive in MLM) can pervert natural affection and the very
foundations of filial love and trust, ultimately alienating us from
authentic relationships. When everyone is a "prospect" -- we lose
sense of authentic human and spiritual value.

The FTC's MLM warning page
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/alerts/pyrdalrt.htm

Best wishes to you,
PT

Paige,

You clearly have a very negative view of MLM, as did I until recently.

However I have had my mind changed by a serious of very positive experiences
with an organisation (Neways), its products ( awesome to say the least), its
people ( friendly warm and giving) and its CEO...an inspiring knowledgeable
gentleman.

Comparing this to the sometimes dodgy commercial world of REAL pyramids
with CEOS that get paid $$$$$ and most people who work for them are
disempowered, unhappy, selling products that are designed to be sold in
massive department stores...to people who are not informed clearly about
what they are buying......

my thoughts have been slowly evolving.......

cheers,
Andrew

"Paige Turner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dave said:

Some people confuse an MLM marketing plan with the illegal pyramids that
were prevalent in the 1970's. Because they harmed people, financially,
pyramid schemes have been outlawed by both lawmakers and the public.

The assumption that all MLM companies are scams shows a very cynical and

dim

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

view of all people
because MLM's are about people. Millions of people. When you call an MLM

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bad thing, you are calling all those people stupid or crooked, or however
that negative thinking goes.

I recently received some spam e-mail from a Multi-Level Marketing lady
hawking "Lifeforce" health products. She seems like a nice person, but
I had to tell her the truth. Here's my reply:

................

Thanks xxxxxx, but I'm already too familiar with the perverse
influences of MLM. It's an unhealthy, all-consuming lifestyle.

For starters, the goods sold via multi-level marketing will, by the
fundamental nature of MLM, exhibit artificially inflated end-user
prices. This borders on unethical because there are any number of
"down-line" payoffs which had nothing to do with the sale, other than
"signing up new recruits" in a ideal endless pyramid. Take any MLM
product and sell it via a traditional chain (mfr ==>
wholesale/distribution ==> retailer) and that same product will
generally sell for a fraction of its MLM pyramidal mark ups.

MLM has the added dimension of recruitment, which is contrary to both
efficiency and fairness. Building one's down-line is the only viable
method for serious MLM prosperity, and such a scheme is largely
dependent upon "who arrived first" to the party, not necessarily the
skill or perseverance of the individual. Take any MLM model to its
extreme and we run out of people to recruit. Such MLM schemes are
almost always accompanied by a strong "motivational" agenda, sometimes
bordering on cult-like ritual.

For proof, simply take a look at MLM's biggest success story. Amway's
most recent SA-4400 report (as required by FTC) shows an extreme
degree of down-line turnover and the need for top-level distributors
(of which there are in reality very few) to continually harvest new
down-line. At the top, it's not about "product" but almost entirely
focused on motivation and cheer leading -- feeding people their daily
dose of dreams. It's well established that less than 1% of people who
become multi-level distributors ever turn a true profit, and that
those who achieve a sustainable living are a much smaller percentage
still.

Distributors are fond of calling MLM the "wave of the future." But
after 50+ years of MLM, far less than 1% of all retail sales are made
via MLM models. And most of those new sales are from hopeful new
distributors who are "paying the price of admission to a business they
will soon abandon." Xxxxxx, you seem to have convinced yourself that
all is well in pyramid land. But for every MLM "success story" there
are untold masses of burnt out wannabes who worked hard to grow a
business, enriching their up-line in the process, but ultimately
becoming just another sad MLM statistic. I would not want this on my
conscious.

Indeed, MLM is growing -- in the same way legalized gambling and
lotteries are growing. The compulsive desire to "get rich quick" and
"live the life" is more powerful now than at any time in American, and
perhaps world, history. And just as obsessive gambling can destroy
families, MLM marketing tends to commercialize and cheapen family and
friendship relationships. It's an MLM lesson I learned long ago --
friends and family are not business prospects. Such a mind-set
(pervasive in MLM) can pervert natural affection and the very
foundations of filial love and trust, ultimately alienating us from
authentic relationships. When everyone is a "prospect" -- we lose
sense of authentic human and spiritual value.

The FTC's MLM warning page
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/alerts/pyrdalrt.htm

Best wishes to you,
PT

"Paige Turner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dave said:

Some people confuse an MLM marketing plan with the illegal pyramids that
were prevalent in the 1970's. Because they harmed people, financially,
pyramid schemes have been outlawed by both lawmakers and the public.

The assumption that all MLM companies are scams shows a very cynical and

dim

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

view of all people
because MLM's are about people. Millions of people. When you call an MLM

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bad thing, you are calling all those people stupid or crooked, or however
that negative thinking goes.

I recently received some spam e-mail from a Multi-Level Marketing lady
hawking "Lifeforce" health products. She seems like a nice person, but
I had to tell her the truth. Here's my reply:

................

Thanks xxxxxx, but I'm already too familiar with the perverse
influences of MLM. It's an unhealthy, all-consuming lifestyle.

For starters, the goods sold via multi-level marketing will, by the
fundamental nature of MLM, exhibit artificially inflated end-user
prices. This borders on unethical because there are any number of
"down-line" payoffs which had nothing to do with the sale, other than
"signing up new recruits" in a ideal endless pyramid. Take any MLM
product and sell it via a traditional chain (mfr ==>
wholesale/distribution ==> retailer) and that same product will
generally sell for a fraction of its MLM pyramidal mark ups.

MLM has the added dimension of recruitment, which is contrary to both
efficiency and fairness. Building one's down-line is the only viable
method for serious MLM prosperity, and such a scheme is largely
dependent upon "who arrived first" to the party, not necessarily the
skill or perseverance of the individual. Take any MLM model to its
extreme and we run out of people to recruit. Such MLM schemes are
almost always accompanied by a strong "motivational" agenda, sometimes
bordering on cult-like ritual.

For proof, simply take a look at MLM's biggest success story. Amway's
most recent SA-4400 report (as required by FTC) shows an extreme
degree of down-line turnover and the need for top-level distributors
(of which there are in reality very few) to continually harvest new
down-line. At the top, it's not about "product" but almost entirely
focused on motivation and cheer leading -- feeding people their daily
dose of dreams. It's well established that less than 1% of people who
become multi-level distributors ever turn a true profit, and that
those who achieve a sustainable living are a much smaller percentage
still.

Distributors are fond of calling MLM the "wave of the future." But
after 50+ years of MLM, far less than 1% of all retail sales are made
via MLM models. And most of those new sales are from hopeful new
distributors who are "paying the price of admission to a business they
will soon abandon." Xxxxxx, you seem to have convinced yourself that
all is well in pyramid land. But for every MLM "success story" there
are untold masses of burnt out wannabes who worked hard to grow a
business, enriching their up-line in the process, but ultimately
becoming just another sad MLM statistic. I would not want this on my
conscious.

Indeed, MLM is growing -- in the same way legalized gambling and
lotteries are growing. The compulsive desire to "get rich quick" and
"live the life" is more powerful now than at any time in American, and
perhaps world, history. And just as obsessive gambling can destroy
families, MLM marketing tends to commercialize and cheapen family and
friendship relationships. It's an MLM lesson I learned long ago --
friends and family are not business prospects. Such a mind-set
(pervasive in MLM) can pervert natural affection and the very
foundations of filial love and trust, ultimately alienating us from
authentic relationships. When everyone is a "prospect" -- we lose
sense of authentic human and spiritual value.

The FTC's MLM warning page
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/alerts/pyrdalrt.htm

Best wishes to you,
PT

Excellent post. What you omitted was the fact that recruiting friends often
turns them into former friends.

Mark Probert said:

....ultimately alienating us from

Quoted message said:

authentic relationships. When everyone is a "prospect" -- we lose
sense of authentic human and spiritual value.

Quoted message said:

Excellent post. What you omitted was the fact that recruiting friends often
turns them into former friends.

Exactly.

MLM ultimately turns 100% of our waking life into a "recruiting"
mindset. As we increasingly see every person as a "prospect" we
eventually undermine the sacred foundations of true family and
friendship. At best, it is a very unhealthy lifestyle.

PT

In article <[email hidden]>,

Andrew said:

Paige,

You clearly have a very negative view of MLM, as did I until recently.

However I have had my mind changed by a serious of very positive experiences
with an organisation (Neways), its products ( awesome to say the least), its
people ( friendly warm and giving) and its CEO...an inspiring knowledgeable
gentleman.

Oh, Neways! Yes, I've heard of them. They're the sleazy clowns who
scream at us that our household products are full of awful toxic
chemicals, and that they'll sell us better ones -- which turn out to
be full of the exact same chemicals, under different names. And, just
to add to the fun, a lot of the chemicals they tell us are so awful
aren't really that awful at all.

Very caring and knowledgable -- at how to separate suckers from their
money.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

my thoughts have been slowly evolving.......

Very slowly, I'd say. Right now, you're at the equivalent of those
first airbreathing forms that crawled onto the land during the
Devonian period.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Is MLM a Scam
From: [email hidden] (David Wright)
Date: 9/10/2003 7:20 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

In article <[email hidden]>,

Andrew said:

Paige,

You clearly have a very negative view of MLM, as did I until recently.

However I have had my mind changed by a serious of very positive experiences
with an organisation (Neways), its products ( awesome to say the least), its
people ( friendly warm and giving) and its CEO...an inspiring knowledgeable
gentleman.

Oh, Neways! Yes, I've heard of them. They're the sleazy clowns

ZZzz.

David is having his usual grump before bedtime.

Quoted message said:

Right now, you're at the equivalent of those
first airbreathing forms that crawled onto the land during the
Devonian period.

Good night sweetie. Sweet dreams.

Jan

[email hidden] (David Wright) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Oh, Neways! Yes, I've heard of them. They're the sleazy clowns who
scream at us that our household products are full of awful toxic
chemicals, and that they'll sell us better ones -- which turn out to
be full of the exact same chemicals, under different names. And, just
to add to the fun, a lot of the chemicals they tell us are so awful
aren't really that awful at all.

In fact, the Neways pitch is a classic example of appealing to parents'
fears about their children's safety in order get them to behave emotionally
rather than rationally. Its message basically boils down to "Mothers: you
don't know it, but what you're doing might give your kids *cancer*! You
must be wracked with guilt now, but redemption is in sight! Just join our
program!" It's not all that different from the "blood libel" against the
Jews: the accusation that they killed children to use their blood in
rituals (an accusation, BTW, that's been applied to groups other than the
Jews, which just goes to show that it's the form, rather than actual
content, of the technique that matters).

The point is that parents tend to deal with possible threats to their
children emotionally rather than rationally (probably something pretty
close to an instinct, coming from the fact that parents had to protect
their children long before humans evolved much higher brain function) and
therefore can be persuaded to suspend their better judgment by the
allegation of such threats. It's not a matter of lack of IQ-type
intelligence; the smartest person in the world can do some pretty dumb
things in an emergency, and this type of appeal puts people into "emergency
response mode."

"Sleazy clowns" is putting it awfully mildly.

"Andrew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Paige,

You clearly have a very negative view of MLM, as did I until recently.

However I have had my mind changed by a serious of very positive

experiences

Quoted message said:

with an organisation (Neways), its products ( awesome to say the least),

its

Quoted message said:

people ( friendly warm and giving) and its CEO...an inspiring

knowledgeable

Quoted message said:

gentleman.

Oh, you mean these guys:

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/02/Apr02/041702/97s-0163_let0596_vol17.pdf

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/01/Aug01/081701/let0530.pdf

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/00/jun00/061200/let0356.pdf

http://www.fda.gov/oc/po/firmrecalls/cosmeceutical04_03.html

"Paige Turner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mark Probert said:

....ultimately alienating us from

Quoted message said:

authentic relationships. When everyone is a "prospect" -- we lose
sense of authentic human and spiritual value.

Quoted message said:

Excellent post. What you omitted was the fact that recruiting friends

often

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

turns them into former friends.

Exactly.

MLM ultimately turns 100% of our waking life into a "recruiting"
mindset. As we increasingly see every person as a "prospect" we
eventually undermine the sacred foundations of true family and
friendship. At best, it is a very unhealthy lifestyle.

Sort of like a prostitute who sees a single male driver.

Mark Probert said:

"Andrew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Paige,

You clearly have a very negative view of MLM, as did I until recently.

However I have had my mind changed by a serious of very positive

experiences

Quoted message said:

with an organisation (Neways), its products ( awesome to say the least),

its

Quoted message said:

people ( friendly warm and giving) and its CEO...an inspiring

knowledgeable

Quoted message said:

gentleman.

Oh, you mean these guys:

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/02/Apr02/041702/97s-0163_let0596_vol17.pdf

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/01/Aug01/081701/let0530.pdf

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/00/jun00/061200/let0356.pdf

http://www.fda.gov/oc/po/firmrecalls/cosmeceutical04_03.html

Funny how the majority of these multi-level schemes originate in Utah.

PT

"Paige Turner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mark Probert said:

"Andrew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Paige,

You clearly have a very negative view of MLM, as did I until recently.

However I have had my mind changed by a serious of very positive

experiences

Quoted message said:

with an organisation (Neways), its products ( awesome to say the

least),

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

its

Quoted message said:

people ( friendly warm and giving) and its CEO...an inspiring

knowledgeable

Quoted message said:

gentleman.

Oh, you mean these guys:

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/02/Apr02/041702/97s-0163_let0596_vo

l17.pdf

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/01/Aug01/081701/let0530.pdf

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/00/jun00/061200/let0356.pdf

http://www.fda.gov/oc/po/firmrecalls/cosmeceutical04_03.html

Funny how the majority of these multi-level schemes originate in Utah.

Even funnier that Sen. Orrin Hatch was a sponsor of the bill that
deregulated them, and owned stock in at least one company. Imagine if a
similar bill deregulated pharmaceuticals and the congresscritter who
sponsored it also owned stock.

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Is MLM a Scam
From: Eric Bohlman [email hidden]
Date: 9/11/2003 1:40 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

[email hidden] (David Wright) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Oh, Neways! Yes, I've heard of them. They're the sleazy clowns who
scream at us that our household products are full of awful toxic
chemicals, and that they'll sell us better ones -- which turn out to
be full of the exact same chemicals, under different names. And, just
to add to the fun, a lot of the chemicals they tell us are so awful
aren't really that awful at all.

In fact, the Neways pitch is a classic example of appealing to parents'
fears about their children's safety in order get them to behave emotionally
rather than rationally.

ZZzz.

Quoted message said:

Its message basically boils down to "Mothers: you
don't know it, but what you're doing might give your kids *cancer*! You
must be wracked with guilt now, but redemption is in sight!

WOW!! All this from Neways.

Nope from Eric.

Quoted message said:

Just join our
program!" It's not all that different from the "blood libel" against the
Jews:

Say what??? Where did the Jews enter the picture??

In Eric's mind.

Quoted message said:

the accusation that they killed children to use their blood in
rituals (an accusation,

Double WOW, first Jews, now killed children, and on to rituals!!

Quoted message said:

BTW, that's been applied to groups other than the
Jews, which just goes to show that it's the form, rather than actual
content, of the technique that matters).

Proof please?

Quoted message said:

The point is that parents tend to deal with possible threats to their
children emotionally rather than rationally (probably something pretty

Do they, now. And how many kids do you have Eric??

Quoted message said:

close to an instinct, coming from the fact that parents had to protect
their children

Yep, that comes naturally. Got a problem with that??

Quoted message said:

long before humans evolved much higher brain function)

Humans didn't evolved, they were created.

Quoted message said:

therefore can be persuaded to suspend their better judgment by the
allegation of such threats.

Suspening better judgment.

It is amazing how some people's mind works.

Quoted message said:

It's not a matter of lack of IQ-type
intelligence;

Me thinks you are in the rant mode. Does the three lettters MLM awake all this
semon like passion in you??

Quoted message said:

the smartest person in the world can do some pretty dumb
things in an emergency

Yep. Especially if it is your child. How many do you have Eric??

Quoted message said:

and this type of appeal puts people into "emergency
response mode."

It does?

It seems the three letters MLM put you in the unreal mode.

Quoted message said:

Sleazy clowns" is putting it awfully mildly.

Well. no, it was stupid the first time it was used and you showed even more
stupidity.

Speaking of emotions,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

The debunker attitude is,,,,,,,,,,,

HANG ALL SALEMENS AND PEOPLE IN MLM AT SUN RISE!!!!

Jan

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

long before humans evolved much higher brain function)

Humans didn't evolved, they were created.

I figured you were a creationist.

Another pseudo-science.

"Mark Probert" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

long before humans evolved much higher brain function)

Humans didn't evolved, they were created.

I figured you were a creationist.

Another pseudo-science.

To be honest, I expected that response when I wrote that; I might be
slightly guilty of trying to test her. But only slightly; my point still
stands, which is that there are good biological reasons for parents'
protection of their children to be mostly mediated through "primitive"
parts of the brain, and that it's unconscionable to exploit this tendency
for commercial purposes.

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Is MLM a Scam
From: Eric Bohlman [email hidden]
Date: 9/11/2003 5:25 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Mark Probert" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

> long before humans evolved much higher brain function)

Humans didn't evolved, they were created.

I figured you were a creationist.

Another pseudo-science.

I thought Jews believed in God??

Quoted message said:

To be honest, I expected that response when I wrote that; I might be
slightly guilty of trying to test her. But only slightly; my point still
stands, which is that there are good biological reasons for parents'
protection of their children to be mostly mediated through "primitive"
parts of the brain, and that it's unconscionable to exploit this tendency
for commercial purposes.

My questions still stand. What is your experience as a parent Eric??

For some reason, you didn't answer.

Jan