Bike Cafe · Public discussion

Is Lance Doping?

Started by ds0709 · · Last activity · 120 posts · 12,554 views

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
Bike Cafe
Published
15 June 2004
Last activity
30 June 2004
Original author
ds0709
Posts
120
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
12,554
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 61–80 of 120
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. Judge rejects Armstrong suit
    Orders American to pay 1 Euro in damages

    By VeloNews Interactive
    with wire services
    This report filed June 21, 2004

    A French judge on Monday rejected a bid by attorneys representing Lance Armstrong to insert a denial of accusations of doping published in a book released last week.

    Armstrong, 33, seeking a record sixth consecutive Tour de France in July, has vowed to take legal action over the new book "L.A. Confidential: The Secrets of Lance Armstrong" which alleges he used banned drugs.

    Armstrong's lawyer Christian Charriere-Bournazel told AFP on Monday he had filed an appeal of the ruling.

    "I am very disappointed," he said. "I don't share the court's view."

    Charriere-Bournazel said he hoped the appeal would be heard by the end of the week or at the start of next week.

    The book, by journalists David Walsh and Pierre Ballester, focuses on statements attributed to Emma O'Reilly, a soigneur who worked on U.S. Postal team. O'Reilly claims Armstrong used the banned blood booster EPO.

    O'Reilly also alleges that Armstrong asked her to dispose of bags with syringes after the 1998 Tour of Holland and that in May 1999, as Armstrong trained in the Pyrénées, she was asked to drive to Spain to pick up drugs which she handed to Armstrong in a parking lot.

    O'Reilly claims in the book Armstrong asked her to use makeup to cover up syringe marks on his arm at a Tour de France medical checkup in 1999. During a hearing last Friday Armstrong's lawyers slammed the book as "sensationalist" and an attack on the rider's character.

    Lawyers acting on behalf of French publishers La Martiniere defended the book and argued that finding in favor of the plaintiff would signal the end of investigative journalism.

    In the end, judge Catherine Bezio rejected Armstrong's request, noting in her verdict that the published extracts involving the accusations "do not necessarily constitute defamation." Armstrong was ordered to pay a symbolic single euro in damages to the defendants for "abuse" of the legal system, as well as cover court costs of 1500 euros.

    La Martiniere's lawyer, Arnault de Montbrial, told AFP that his clients were "very satisfied" with the judge's decision.

    Noting that neither Armstrong nor his staff had responded to the authors' attempts to contact him for comment, he added: "The judge understood perfectly that by condemning Mr. Armstrong for abusive practice that the interested party had tried to respond using the judicial channel to the journalists' questions which he had refused to answer."

    Armstrong has never faced any bans over doping and has always strenuously denied taking any such products. -AFP, Reuters and The Associated Press contributed to this story

    😠

  2. From the bicycling magazine website.

    A Tale Of Two Men
    A tornado of bitter drug allegations has sandblasted Lance Armstrong as he preps for the Tour and announces a new sponsor. The trail to the truth is a twisty one full of tangents--only one man can reveal the true story.
    By Joe Lindsey, Contributing Writer

    "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity."

    -Opening lines to "A Tale of Two Cities" by Charles Dickens

    By most accounts, Lance Armstrong is not the most literary of bike racers, although he does have a proclivity to read much of what is written about him. But after Tuesday he might have a special affinity for Dickens' description of life during the French Revolution.

    In a surreal case of split identities, two Lance Armstrongs appeared Tuesday at a press conference in the suburbs of Washington, D.C.:

    Lance Armstrong No. 1 was there to announce that Discovery Communications would in 2005 assume sponsorship of what is now the United States Postal Service cycling team (presented by Berry Floor, of course).

    Lance Armstrong No. 2 was there for an entirely different and much less savory reason: to face, head-on, questions regarding the release of a book which again dogs him with allegations of drug use.

    The book, "LA Confidential: Les Secrets de Lance Armstrong," published initially in France, is the latest salvo from Armstrong's personal Javert, lead sportswriter of the London Times, David Walsh (and co-written with former l'Equipe writer Pierre Ballester).

    In it, Walsh, a three-time British Sportswriter of the Year, alleges that, among other acts, Armstrong fixed the 1993 Triple Crown (his $1 million sweep of the then-CoreStates, nee First Union, nee Wachovia,
    series) and that he used banned substances, including during his Tour de France wins. Walsh admits that he has no clear proof, but that the information is available and the reader can decide for himself.

    Armstrong has seen allegations before, but this is no French TV crew rooting through dumpsters; the principal source is none other than Emma O'Reilly, a former head soigneur for Postal who left the team and the sport after the 2000 season. Another source is Stephen Swart, who rode with Armstrong on Motorola. A 10-page excerpt ran this week in the French magazine l'Express and the London Times ran a story on Monday with quotes from the book.

    At the press conference, Armstrong fought to keep the discussion centered on the good reason he was there--a three-year deal with Discovery that cements probably $9 million a year for Armstrong and the team owner, Tailwind Sports. But it was clear on Tuesday, Armstrong is not in control.

    After a chummy round of mutual admiration between Armstrong and Discovery executives, Armstrong was treated to a different form of discovery by the press. First question, from USA Today's Sal Ruibal:

    "Lance, today can you assure your millions of fans around the world that you have never used illegal performance-enhancing drugs or techniques at any time during your cycling career?" Ruibal asked after congratulating Armstrong on the new deal. After a pause, Armstrong responded:

    "I can absolutely confirm that we don't use doping products (at Postal)," he began. "I can also remind everyone here and remind everyone listening this is not the first time it's happened. It's not the first time I've lived through this. We heard it in 1999, heard it in 2001, again in 2003. It happens all the time." He paused briefly, then continued in a stronger tone.

    "Every time we've chosen to sit back and let it pass, but we've sort of reached the point where we really can't tolerate it anymore. And we're sick and tired of these allegations and we're going to do everything we can to fight them. They're absolutely untrue. We've filed action in England. We've filed action in France, against everybody involved.
    Enough is enough."

    Armstrong is correct in that he's never before filed suit against those who've alleged he's not clean, but historically he's been as assiduous as any politician about polishing his image and flexing legal muscle to protect it. In 1999 he went after Cannondale for running a congratulatory ad on his first Tour win. He also took to task Postal's team clothing sponsor, Pearl Izumi, for a similar ad, on the grounds that Pearl, unlike Nike, Giro and Oakley, to name three of the team's other equipment sponsors, didn't have a separate endorsement contract with him to use his likeness in promotions even though he rode in Pearl clothing all season. Both actions were quickly and quietly settled, but the cold nature of Armstrong's actions left a sour taste in the mouths of the companies involved and the generally congenial bike industry.

    And journalists have traditionally been wary about running unflattering stories about Armstrong, in part because of the threat of legal action (Walsh was sent a letter a week ago threatening a suit if the book contained allegations of doping) and in part because Armstrong is a busy cottage industry for sportswriters (such as myself) and access can be key.

    In a story last year in Outside magazine, contributor Eric Hagerman wrote candidly about the phenomenon of reporters penning hagiographical stories in exchange for access. "Most journalists who cover the Tour are loath to ask about doping, either because they don't want to taint their love of the sport or because they're simply afraid of getting frozen out by the Armstrong camp," Hagerman wrote. "Such reporters are sometimes referred to as FWTs--fans with typewriters."

    Walsh, certainly no FWT, has been Armstrong's most dogged pursuer.
    Although he wrote flatteringly of Armstrong in his 1993 book "Inside the Tour de France," Walsh no longer looks at Armstrong in such a light. In 2001, Walsh disclosed that Armstrong consulted with Michele Ferrari, a controversial Italian sports doctor who is again on trial for sporting fraud (previous trials have resulted in acquittal).

    To make matters worse, while Armstrong maintains Walsh is pursuing a personal vendetta against him (which the Times disputes), he has a disconcerting habit of turning up credible, named sources. The latest is O'Reilly; other sources for "LA Confidential" included former Motorola pro Stephen Swart and Kathy LeMond, wife to three-time Tour champion Greg LeMond. (The Times of London reported Monday that Greg could not be interviewed for the book because of contractual obligations; Trek, Armstrong and Postal's bike sponsor, owns LeMond's bike company too. Kathy is not bound by such agreements.)

    Swart, according to the story in the London Times, admits in the book to using EPO in 1995 while on Motorola, and says that the pressure to do so came from the need to produce results for the sponsor. Kathy LeMond recounts notes she took from a phone conversation between Armstrong and Greg after Walsh outed the relationship with Ferrari; in it, Greg and Lance have what the Times called a "heated discussion" about EPO, including questions about who was taking it, and why. For his 2001 story, Walsh cited evidence from Italian police investigating Ferrari (including Ferrari's logs of Armstrong's visits) and quoted a former Postal team doctor, Prentice Steffen, as saying his departure from the team was precipitated by a refusal "to do all that could be done" to help Postal racers get better results. Steffen left the team in 1997, a year before Armstrong signed on.

    Walsh has a habit of turning Armstrong's life upside down at inopportune moments: the Ferrari accusation came on the eve of the 2001 Tour; Armstrong spent much of the race answering questions about the association and glared at Walsh when the writer asked questions at press conferences.

    Armstrong's only benefit in such instances is that he thrives on negative motivation. Since his earliest competition, his attitude has been him against the world, and he cultivates a sense of righteous anger as fuel for his performances; Walsh may have just delivered Lance a sixth Tour title with his latest salvo.

    "...it does add up to a little bit of stress, but I gotta tell you, when I go home, I'm not thinking about this," Armstrong said Tuesday. "I'm thinking about winning the Tour. I'm thinking about starting [in Liege on July 3] and I'm thinking...as I said earlier I don't ever think about winning number six but I guess I will think a little bit about six."

    But it's clear he is thinking about the book, and for more than just motivational purposes. Asked about O'Reilly's accusations, Armstrong first struck a conciliatory tone. "In fact we actually had a very good working relationship. I know that Emma left the team for other reasons.
    Even as evil as this thing has come out to be, it's not gonna be my style to attack her."

    He then proceeded to do just that, albeit subtly. "I know there were a lot of issues within the team, within the management, within the other riders that were inappropriate. She was let go, but to be quite honest I always had a good relationship with her," he finished.

    In a short profile of O'Reilly that longtime cycling correspondent Samuel Abt wrote in 1999 for the International Herald Tribune, then-Postal manager Mark Gorski called O'Reilly the "heart and soul of the team." O'Reilly told Abt that the other soigneurs had actively supported her presence despite the stigma against women soigneurs in European cycling, a stigma that Gorksi termed "inappropriate."

    And while he said he wouldn't attack O'Reilly, when I asked Armstrong at Tuesday's press conference whether she was named in the suit, he responded that for now "...we're talking about authors and publishers and papers and magazines that have excerpted the stuff," and added an ominous warning: "But we won't discriminate," he finished.

    Armstrong is not a forgiving person when he perceives he's been slighted. "The world is black-and-white to him," John Korioth, a friend, told Hagerman for the Outside article last year. Korioth would know, having been both in and out of Armstrong's good graces (he's currently back in). Other one-time "outs" are Kevin Livingston, who got the cold shoulder when he left to ride for Jan Ullrich at Telekom (which Armstrong viewed as a personal betrayal), and even longtime agent and friend Bill Stapleton, who was told in 1998 to get Lance signed to a team pronto or lose his sole client.

    Stories of uncommon kindness also abound--primarily involving cancer sufferers and those business associates who did stick with Armstrong through his fight with cancer, when it was not clear if he'd even survive, let alone race again. That kind of loyalty, that kind of shared suffering, produces fast bonds that do not break. But the troubling relationships are those that have broken.

    O'Reilly has been out of the sport since 2000 and, more than likely, does not have the resources to stage a long defense if she's named in a suit; what does she have to gain from accusing Armstrong? What does Swart? Walsh's motives are up for free debate; his sources too, but a bit less so since they don't have book sales to consider. Do they speak out of a sense of being wronged? Do they speak to speed up what they see as justice delayed? In any event, Armstrong could find himself in more trouble than he'd ever imagined.

    In a seemingly unrelated story, the Associated Press reported earlier this week on a memo leaked from the legal office of the United States Anti-Doping Agency. Credited by the AP to USADA's director of legal affairs, Tyson Tygart, the memo outlined a plan to lower the agency's standard of proof in drug investigations.

    Most of the stories reporting this concentrated on the effect this would have on USADA's ongoing investigation into Marion Jones and other figures in the BALCO case, because the new rules would govern any drug case begun after this past March 1 and seem tailor-made to produce a sanction against Jones and her boyfriend, 100-meter world record holder Tim Montgomery. But any subsequent investigation into Armstrong would also use the lower standard of proof, which allows more circumstantial evidence.

    Previously, only a positive drug test or admission of drug use was considered admissible evidence; the use had to be proved "beyond a reasonable doubt." But Tygart's memo held that in arbitration cases the standard of proof is lower because "formal rules of evidence do not apply to arbitration." That allows the introduction of evidence previously called hearsay, such as someone alleging to have supplied an athlete with drugs, even if no positive test or admission of use was obtained from the athlete.

    And instead of requiring certainty of doping beyond a reasonable doubt, a sanction can be supported with the "comfortable satisfaction" of the panel, a piece of language straight out of the World Anti-Doping Association code, to which the U.S. Olympic Committee and USADA adhere.
    That standard, incidentally, is common in professional misconduct cases in the legal and medical arenas.

    In other words, Walsh and Ballester's new book relies on precisely the kind of information that is now likely allowed in drug investigations.

    So which of the two Lance Armstrongs at Tuesday's press conference is the real one? Is it the man who slyly slurred a former soigneur by alluding to inappropriate things within the team that led to her dismissal; who freezes out former friends who he thinks are disloyal or no longer pulling their weight; who threatens sponsors with legal action for attempting to congratulate him? Or is it the happy Armstrong announcing his new deal, the Armstrong who spends valuable time befriending terminal cancer patients, who tirelessly stumps for his foundation and who, say 80-plus percent of MSNBC.com readers, by recent poll, is and always has been entirely clean?

    If Armstrong loses the Tour this year, it will be due to karma. Not the mystical kind of force that wings its way around the world, waiting to deck those who've been bad for various indistinct sins, but the kind that is a direct result of one's actions, actions that turn former friends and associates against a person, the ugly kind of ruthless focus on winning that is heedless of the human toll it exacts. And if he loses, we may see that the real Lance Armstrong is not the one we've been watching for six years. The question, then, for Lance is simple:

    Who are you?

  3. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by Jakebrake
    From the bicycling magazine website.

    A Tale Of Two Men
    A tornado of bitter drug allegations has sandblasted Lance Armstrong as he preps for the Tour and announces a new sponsor. The trail to the truth is a twisty one full of tangents--only one man can reveal the true story.
    By Joe Lindsey, Contributing Writer


    "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity."

    -Opening lines to "A Tale of Two Cities" by Charles Dickens

    By most accounts, Lance Armstrong is not the most literary of bike racers, although he does have a proclivity to read much of what is written about him. But after Tuesday he might have a special affinity for Dickens' description of life during the French Revolution.

    In a surreal case of split identities, two Lance Armstrongs appeared Tuesday at a press conference in the suburbs of Washington, D.C.:

    Lance Armstrong No. 1 was there to announce that Discovery Communications would in 2005 assume sponsorship of what is now the United States Postal Service cycling team (presented by Berry Floor, of course).

    Lance Armstrong No. 2 was there for an entirely different and much less savory reason: to face, head-on, questions regarding the release of a book which again dogs him with allegations of drug use.

    The book, "LA Confidential: Les Secrets de Lance Armstrong," published initially in France, is the latest salvo from Armstrong's personal Javert, lead sportswriter of the London Times, David Walsh (and co-written with former l'Equipe writer Pierre Ballester).

    In it, Walsh, a three-time British Sportswriter of the Year, alleges that, among other acts, Armstrong fixed the 1993 Triple Crown (his $1 million sweep of the then-CoreStates, nee First Union, nee Wachovia,
    series) and that he used banned substances, including during his Tour de France wins. Walsh admits that he has no clear proof, but that the information is available and the reader can decide for himself.

    Armstrong has seen allegations before, but this is no French TV crew rooting through dumpsters; the principal source is none other than Emma O'Reilly, a former head soigneur for Postal who left the team and the sport after the 2000 season. Another source is Stephen Swart, who rode with Armstrong on Motorola. A 10-page excerpt ran this week in the French magazine l'Express and the London Times ran a story on Monday with quotes from the book.

    At the press conference, Armstrong fought to keep the discussion centered on the good reason he was there--a three-year deal with Discovery that cements probably $9 million a year for Armstrong and the team owner, Tailwind Sports. But it was clear on Tuesday, Armstrong is not in control.

    After a chummy round of mutual admiration between Armstrong and Discovery executives, Armstrong was treated to a different form of discovery by the press. First question, from USA Today's Sal Ruibal:

    "Lance, today can you assure your millions of fans around the world that you have never used illegal performance-enhancing drugs or techniques at any time during your cycling career?" Ruibal asked after congratulating Armstrong on the new deal. After a pause, Armstrong responded:

    "I can absolutely confirm that we don't use doping products (at Postal)," he began. "I can also remind everyone here and remind everyone listening this is not the first time it's happened. It's not the first time I've lived through this. We heard it in 1999, heard it in 2001, again in 2003. It happens all the time." He paused briefly, then continued in a stronger tone.

    "Every time we've chosen to sit back and let it pass, but we've sort of reached the point where we really can't tolerate it anymore. And we're sick and tired of these allegations and we're going to do everything we can to fight them. They're absolutely untrue. We've filed action in England. We've filed action in France, against everybody involved.
    Enough is enough."

    Armstrong is correct in that he's never before filed suit against those who've alleged he's not clean, but historically he's been as assiduous as any politician about polishing his image and flexing legal muscle to protect it. In 1999 he went after Cannondale for running a congratulatory ad on his first Tour win. He also took to task Postal's team clothing sponsor, Pearl Izumi, for a similar ad, on the grounds that Pearl, unlike Nike, Giro and Oakley, to name three of the team's other equipment sponsors, didn't have a separate endorsement contract with him to use his likeness in promotions even though he rode in Pearl clothing all season. Both actions were quickly and quietly settled, but the cold nature of Armstrong's actions left a sour taste in the mouths of the companies involved and the generally congenial bike industry.

    And journalists have traditionally been wary about running unflattering stories about Armstrong, in part because of the threat of legal action (Walsh was sent a letter a week ago threatening a suit if the book contained allegations of doping) and in part because Armstrong is a busy cottage industry for sportswriters (such as myself) and access can be key.

    In a story last year in Outside magazine, contributor Eric Hagerman wrote candidly about the phenomenon of reporters penning hagiographical stories in exchange for access. "Most journalists who cover the Tour are loath to ask about doping, either because they don't want to taint their love of the sport or because they're simply afraid of getting frozen out by the Armstrong camp," Hagerman wrote. "Such reporters are sometimes referred to as FWTs--fans with typewriters."

    Walsh, certainly no FWT, has been Armstrong's most dogged pursuer.
    Although he wrote flatteringly of Armstrong in his 1993 book "Inside the Tour de France," Walsh no longer looks at Armstrong in such a light. In 2001, Walsh disclosed that Armstrong consulted with Michele Ferrari, a controversial Italian sports doctor who is again on trial for sporting fraud (previous trials have resulted in acquittal).

    To make matters worse, while Armstrong maintains Walsh is pursuing a personal vendetta against him (which the Times disputes), he has a disconcerting habit of turning up credible, named sources. The latest is O'Reilly; other sources for "LA Confidential" included former Motorola pro Stephen Swart and Kathy LeMond, wife to three-time Tour champion Greg LeMond. (The Times of London reported Monday that Greg could not be interviewed for the book because of contractual obligations; Trek, Armstrong and Postal's bike sponsor, owns LeMond's bike company too. Kathy is not bound by such agreements.)

    Swart, according to the story in the London Times, admits in the book to using EPO in 1995 while on Motorola, and says that the pressure to do so came from the need to produce results for the sponsor. Kathy LeMond recounts notes she took from a phone conversation between Armstrong and Greg after Walsh outed the relationship with Ferrari; in it, Greg and Lance have what the Times called a "heated discussion" about EPO, including questions about who was taking it, and why. For his 2001 story, Walsh cited evidence from Italian police investigating Ferrari (including Ferrari's logs of Armstrong's visits) and quoted a former Postal team doctor, Prentice Steffen, as saying his departure from the team was precipitated by a refusal "to do all that could be done" to help Postal racers get better results. Steffen left the team in 1997, a year before Armstrong signed on.

    Walsh has a habit of turning Armstrong's life upside down at inopportune moments: the Ferrari accusation came on the eve of the 2001 Tour; Armstrong spent much of the race answering questions about the association and glared at Walsh when the writer asked questions at press conferences.

    Armstrong's only benefit in such instances is that he thrives on negative motivation. Since his earliest competition, his attitude has been him against the world, and he cultivates a sense of righteous anger as fuel for his performances; Walsh may have just delivered Lance a sixth Tour title with his latest salvo.

    "...it does add up to a little bit of stress, but I gotta tell you, when I go home, I'm not thinking about this," Armstrong said Tuesday. "I'm thinking about winning the Tour. I'm thinking about starting [in Liege on July 3] and I'm thinking...as I said earlier I don't ever think about winning number six but I guess I will think a little bit about six."

    But it's clear he is thinking about the book, and for more than just motivational purposes. Asked about O'Reilly's accusations, Armstrong first struck a conciliatory tone. "In fact we actually had a very good working relationship. I know that Emma left the team for other reasons.
    Even as evil as this thing has come out to be, it's not gonna be my style to attack her."

    He then proceeded to do just that, albeit subtly. "I know there were a lot of issues within the team, within the management, within the other riders that were inappropriate. She was let go, but to be quite honest I always had a good relationship with her," he finished.

    In a short profile of O'Reilly that longtime cycling correspondent Samuel Abt wrote in 1999 for the International Herald Tribune, then-Postal manager Mark Gorski called O'Reilly the "heart and soul of the team." O'Reilly told Abt that the other soigneurs had actively supported her presence despite the stigma against women soigneurs in European cycling, a stigma that Gorksi termed "inappropriate."

    And while he said he wouldn't attack O'Reilly, when I asked Armstrong at Tuesday's press conference whether she was named in the suit, he responded that for now "...we're talking about authors and publishers and papers and magazines that have excerpted the stuff," and added an ominous warning: "But we won't discriminate," he finished.

    Armstrong is not a forgiving person when he perceives he's been slighted. "The world is black-and-white to him," John Korioth, a friend, told Hagerman for the Outside article last year. Korioth would know, having been both in and out of Armstrong's good graces (he's currently back in). Other one-time "outs" are Kevin Livingston, who got the cold shoulder when he left to ride for Jan Ullrich at Telekom (which Armstrong viewed as a personal betrayal), and even longtime agent and friend Bill Stapleton, who was told in 1998 to get Lance signed to a team pronto or lose his sole client.

    Stories of uncommon kindness also abound--primarily involving cancer sufferers and those business associates who did stick with Armstrong through his fight with cancer, when it was not clear if he'd even survive, let alone race again. That kind of loyalty, that kind of shared suffering, produces fast bonds that do not break. But the troubling relationships are those that have broken.

    O'Reilly has been out of the sport since 2000 and, more than likely, does not have the resources to stage a long defense if she's named in a suit; what does she have to gain from accusing Armstrong? What does Swart? Walsh's motives are up for free debate; his sources too, but a bit less so since they don't have book sales to consider. Do they speak out of a sense of being wronged? Do they speak to speed up what they see as justice delayed? In any event, Armstrong could find himself in more trouble than he'd ever imagined.

    In a seemingly unrelated story, the Associated Press reported earlier this week on a memo leaked from the legal office of the United States Anti-Doping Agency. Credited by the AP to USADA's director of legal affairs, Tyson Tygart, the memo outlined a plan to lower the agency's standard of proof in drug investigations.

    Most of the stories reporting this concentrated on the effect this would have on USADA's ongoing investigation into Marion Jones and other figures in the BALCO case, because the new rules would govern any drug case begun after this past March 1 and seem tailor-made to produce a sanction against Jones and her boyfriend, 100-meter world record holder Tim Montgomery. But any subsequent investigation into Armstrong would also use the lower standard of proof, which allows more circumstantial evidence.

    Previously, only a positive drug test or admission of drug use was considered admissible evidence; the use had to be proved "beyond a reasonable doubt." But Tygart's memo held that in arbitration cases the standard of proof is lower because "formal rules of evidence do not apply to arbitration." That allows the introduction of evidence previously called hearsay, such as someone alleging to have supplied an athlete with drugs, even if no positive test or admission of use was obtained from the athlete.

    And instead of requiring certainty of doping beyond a reasonable doubt, a sanction can be supported with the "comfortable satisfaction" of the panel, a piece of language straight out of the World Anti-Doping Association code, to which the U.S. Olympic Committee and USADA adhere.
    That standard, incidentally, is common in professional misconduct cases in the legal and medical arenas.

    In other words, Walsh and Ballester's new book relies on precisely the kind of information that is now likely allowed in drug investigations.

    So which of the two Lance Armstrongs at Tuesday's press conference is the real one? Is it the man who slyly slurred a former soigneur by alluding to inappropriate things within the team that led to her dismissal; who freezes out former friends who he thinks are disloyal or no longer pulling their weight; who threatens sponsors with legal action for attempting to congratulate him? Or is it the happy Armstrong announcing his new deal, the Armstrong who spends valuable time befriending terminal cancer patients, who tirelessly stumps for his foundation and who, say 80-plus percent of MSNBC.com readers, by recent poll, is and always has been entirely clean?

    If Armstrong loses the Tour this year, it will be due to karma. Not the mystical kind of force that wings its way around the world, waiting to deck those who've been bad for various indistinct sins, but the kind that is a direct result of one's actions, actions that turn former friends and associates against a person, the ugly kind of ruthless focus on winning that is heedless of the human toll it exacts. And if he loses, we may see that the real Lance Armstrong is not the one we've been watching for six years. The question, then, for Lance is simple:

    Who are you?

    Thanks for posting this.
    It is a very interesting article and it fleshes out the discussion we're having here.

  4. Usually good to bring forth different points of view and diverse opinions into the arena of debate and ideas. 🙂

  5. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by Jakebrake
    Usually good to bring forth different points of view and diverse opinions into the arena of debate and ideas. 🙂

    Let's consider for a moment that perhaps Lance Armstrong is innocent and is, as his tests have always shown, clean. If this Emma O'Reilly who is the masseur who was canned by Motorola would have followed the law when she was asked to dispose of the syringes and brought them at that time to authorities to be tested for banned drugs, she would have discovered that they did not contain banned substances. Instead, given that she had doubt, she broke the law and covered up this alleged crime for this many years only to now bring it to the attention of the press.

    Assuming that she is telling the truth about the existence of the syringes, would you believe this lawbreaker is telling the truth now? What should be her punishment for perpetrating this fraud on the world cycling community? Consider that she did not have to go public at first with the identity of the riders who gave her the syringes. She could have secretly had tests done to determine if they contained banned substances and then later gone public with this information if they turned out to really contain them.

    Clearly this is a case of sour grapes--creating a controversy without clear evidence. She can deny a coverup by claiming that she didn't know. Well, why didn't she find out? Why isn't she being brought to trial for this alleged coverup? The one who is doing the greatest disservice to the public seems to be this disgruntled former employee of Motorola, Emma O'Reilly.

  6. Actually, I believe O'Reilly worked for Postal. Swart is the Motorola rider.

  7. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by gntlmn
    Let's consider for a moment that perhaps Lance Armstrong is innocent and is, as his tests have always shown, clean. If this Emma O'Reilly who is the masseur who was canned by Motorola would have followed the law when she was asked to dispose of the syringes and brought them at that time to authorities to be tested for banned drugs, she would have discovered that they did not contain banned substances. Instead, given that she had doubt, she broke the law and covered up this alleged crime for this many years only to now bring it to the attention of the press.

    Assuming that she is telling the truth about the existence of the syringes, would you believe this lawbreaker is telling the truth now? What should be her punishment for perpetrating this fraud on the world cycling community? Consider that she did not have to go public at first with the identity of the riders who gave her the syringes. She could have secretly had tests done to determine if they contained banned substances and then later gone public with this information if they turned out to really contain them.

    Clearly this is a case of sour grapes--creating a controversy without clear evidence. She can deny a coverup by claiming that she didn't know. Well, why didn't she find out? Why isn't she being brought to trial for this alleged coverup? The one who is doing the greatest disservice to the public seems to be this disgruntled former employee of Motorola, Emma O'Reilly.

    It is not a crime to administer therapeutic drugs. The drugs widely used by athletes are approved drugs (EPO was approved by the FDA in 1989) that are retail available with, and in some cases, without a prescription. They are not illegal narcotic drugs of dependence.

    If it was against the law our court system and jails would be choked with more victimless criminals.

    Failing a sporting drug test will result in penalties imposed by that particular sport's body. The only legal question that may arise in a few countries, as is the case in Italy, is there a sporting fraud?

    So how could Ms O'Reilly be aiding and abetting a crime that never occurred?

    When you say Motorola, I believe you were mistaken and should have referred to USPS.

  8. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by Lt J.A. Moss
    Judge rejects Armstrong suit
    Orders American to pay 1 Euro in damages

    By VeloNews Interactive
    with wire services
    This report filed June 21, 2004

    A French judge on Monday rejected a bid by attorneys representing Lance Armstrong to insert a denial of accusations of doping published in a book released last week.

    Armstrong, 33, seeking a record sixth consecutive Tour de France in July, has vowed to take legal action over the new book "L.A. Confidential: The Secrets of Lance Armstrong" which alleges he used banned drugs.

    Armstrong's lawyer Christian Charriere-Bournazel told AFP on Monday he had filed an appeal of the ruling.

    "I am very disappointed," he said. "I don't share the court's view."

    Charriere-Bournazel said he hoped the appeal would be heard by the end of the week or at the start of next week.

    The book, by journalists David Walsh and Pierre Ballester, focuses on statements attributed to Emma O'Reilly, a soigneur who worked on U.S. Postal team. O'Reilly claims Armstrong used the banned blood booster EPO.

    O'Reilly also alleges that Armstrong asked her to dispose of bags with syringes after the 1998 Tour of Holland and that in May 1999, as Armstrong trained in the Pyrénées, she was asked to drive to Spain to pick up drugs which she handed to Armstrong in a parking lot.

    O'Reilly claims in the book Armstrong asked her to use makeup to cover up syringe marks on his arm at a Tour de France medical checkup in 1999. During a hearing last Friday Armstrong's lawyers slammed the book as "sensationalist" and an attack on the rider's character.

    Lawyers acting on behalf of French publishers La Martiniere defended the book and argued that finding in favor of the plaintiff would signal the end of investigative journalism.

    In the end, judge Catherine Bezio rejected Armstrong's request, noting in her verdict that the published extracts involving the accusations "do not necessarily constitute defamation." Armstrong was ordered to pay a symbolic single euro in damages to the defendants for "abuse" of the legal system, as well as cover court costs of 1500 euros.

    La Martiniere's lawyer, Arnault de Montbrial, told AFP that his clients were "very satisfied" with the judge's decision.

    Noting that neither Armstrong nor his staff had responded to the authors' attempts to contact him for comment, he added: "The judge understood perfectly that by condemning Mr. Armstrong for abusive practice that the interested party had tried to respond using the judicial channel to the journalists' questions which he had refused to answer."

    Armstrong has never faced any bans over doping and has always strenuously denied taking any such products. -AFP, Reuters and The Associated Press contributed to this story

    😠

    The LA legal team wanted the French court to order an insert into the book to the effect that accusations of drug taking are denied and defamations proceedings had commenced against the authors and publishers.

    The technical problem was that such an insert would have been partly false and misleading. LA has not commenced defamation proceedings in France, only an injunction to prevent (or frustrate) publication.

    So one wonders how the decision can be overturned on appeal. From where I view it is not a confidence inspiring commencement by the LA French lawyers.

  9. I voted yes on this, I am definatly not a LA fan, Stephen Swart is a compatriate of mine and I am TOTALY MIFFED at this book. Its the timing.....it just plain sucks. to publish just days from the start of the TDF is great for publicity but risks ruining this years race. Not only does it throw doubt on the result if LA loses but it brings a negative spotlight onto our already besmudged sport in the hour of what could be our greatest moment. This year coud be the best tour in resent times and I will hate with a vengence anything that risks that, especialy if it is soly for comercial greed. (the timeing, not the book itself)

  10. There is a lot of question of whether Lance can do what he does without doping.

    My thinking is that Lance's life is dedicated to 1 thing Winning the Tour, while other riders are racing and pushing their bodies hard week after week at other races. Lance is learning every nuasce of the route, perfecting equipment, working with Carmichael. He literally has take Tour riding to a whole new level, through use of technology, training, and knowledge.

    Armstrong has always been a gifted athlete, remember US Amateur Champ 1991, World Champ 1993, Winner Tour DuPont 1995, 1996. Everyone talks about how he was never a great multiday rider, before he got cancer. They're absolutely correct, if any of you nay-sayers have actually read his book he fully admits that, the way he use to ride was not good for the long haul.

    Then he rode hard, now he rides smart. He realizes that he can't go it alone the TdF is a team event with one winner. He realizes that if you have one goal then you train and prepare for that one goal. Its called maturity.

    Training is so much different than even 10 years ago. In 1994 I was 18, 145lbs and would average 18-20mph on my 20lb road bike, now I'm 28, 190lbs (same height) and can average 18-20mph on my 30+lb, hybrid commuter. Then I put miles on the bike, now I put quality miles on it.

    I also believe the mentality/attitude has more to do with bike racing than equipment or training. Most pro riders have similar physical abilities, not all have similar mental capacity. The ability allow oneself to be punished, to torture oneself is what wins races. Armstrong through Cancer developed this, he "sickly" enjoys the punishment. Its "bring it on", not "oh man its raining and cold".

    When you're riding in a group, have you ever just dropped somebody going up a hill when they were in obvious better shape and using better equipment. You probably have. How was this done, because they were defeated before they started. They though oh man not another hill, you thought this [censored] isn't beating me.

    Its sickening that whenever somebody stands out from the rest they must be cheating.

    I don't believe that Armstrong is the best cyclist in the world, but he and his team are the best at the TdF. Do I think he'll win this year? With Vino out his chances are better. I think his biggest challenge will be from Hamilton, that guy is T-O-U-G-H.

    Simply put its, Attitude and Aptitude wins races.

  11. I don't accept the explanations that Lance Armstrong has provided to explain his ability to win the TDF.

    I don't accept that a successful one day rider - who contracts cancer and survives it - can then go on to become a great stage race in the way LA has.

    I don't accept that a rider who had no ability to win stage races
    (apart from two moderately rated national tours in the USA)
    can improve to the extent that Lance Armstrong has done during the period 1998-now.

    His explanations for his improvement simply do not ring true.

  12. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by limerickman
    Miguel Indurain's career exemplifies those who progress on a gradual basis toward their palmares.
    If you consider BigMIgs career, you will see that at Banesto, he debuted in 1985.
    (They were known as Reynolds then).
    From 1987, his manager Jose Miguel Echavarria stated that Miguel's job "was to devote himself totally to the service of his
    leader "Pericio" Delgado".
    In the book "A life on wheels - Miguel Indurain" the spanish author tells how Indurain's physical capacities (lung capacity,
    low resting heart beat, optimum blood pressure and general physical strength) was documented as early as 1986 and that
    effectively Reynolds-Banesto were tapering his progress so that
    he would assume the mantle of TDF winner when Delgado's
    tenure was due to finish.
    (as it happened Delgado only won one TDF in 1988).

    This contradicts what you have previously said. From some of your earlier statements you allude that gradual progress can't be valid. They must have incredible "palmares" right from the get go.

    Fine, Big Mig was documented with great physical characteristics long before he started winning the tour. But so did LA. He was beating professional triathletes at the age of 16 because of freakish Vo2 capacity.

    So it's OK for Mig to gradually progress but not LA? I don't recall but was Lance the designated GC contender for Motorola pre-cancer?

  13. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by VeloFlash
    It is not a crime to administer therapeutic drugs. The drugs widely used by athletes are approved drugs (EPO was approved by the FDA in 1989) that are retail available with, and in some cases, without a prescription. They are not illegal narcotic drugs of dependence.

    If it was against the law our court system and jails would be choked with more victimless criminals.

    Failing a sporting drug test will result in penalties imposed by that particular sport's body. The only legal question that may arise in a few countries, as is the case in Italy, is there a sporting fraud?

    So how could Ms O'Reilly be aiding and abetting a crime that never occurred?

    When you say Motorola, I believe you were mistaken and should have referred to USPS.

    It is illegal to participate in a sporting fraud. Clearly, there is a lot of money involved in cycling, not to speak of the trust the crowds place in riders to ride clean. So what I meant was that she was participating in a coverup if she suspected that the vials contained substances banned by the sporting authorities as illegal doping substances. She claims not to know what was in the alleged syringes, and then the book seems to imply that it was something illegal, at least as the press is presenting the story to us. So this is how she was breaking the law. If Walsh is correct and Lance is guilty, she was breaking the law by aiding and abetting. Her type of story is about as injurious as a story can be out of this incident if the whole story is false because she completely avoids prosecution. This is because she says she doesn't know what was in those syringes. If she would have found out they were substances allowed, like vitamins, then she would be slandering Lance now by inferring that they may have contained banned substances. But that she says she doesn't know is also a defense against slander. Well, why didn't she find out? Her story is pretty weak because she didn't follow through.

    You're right about USPS--my mistake.

    I wouldn't be surprised if she has consulted with an employer/employee relations attorney before pulling this stunt. The attorney would have advised her that she can get away with these allegations without fear of reprisal. She may have said that if she wanted to inflict maximum damage against USPS and Lance, simply make these allegations and let the story swirl in the world press. The attorney wouldn't have been able to do much for her in court. So this may have been offered as a consolation prize, and it sure has generated a lot of publicity.

  14. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by limerickman
    I don't accept that a successful one day rider - who contracts cancer and survives it - can then go on to become a great stage race in the way LA has.

    Your probaby to cynical to actually read Armstrongs books when he talks about racing before and after cancer. Your arguments a little weak All great tour riders started as being great one day riders. No person ever started as a Multi-stage rider. Winning stage races is about having the best team, riding the most intelligently, and being the best prepared, not about being the best rider. Winning one day races is more about being the strongest rider, timing, and the willingness to hurt yourself.

    If you want to pick another top rider to compare LA to he has been a pro longer than Ullrich and has ridden in more TdFs, but I'm not hearing Ullrichs a cheater even though he's never finished worse than 2nd (still an amazing feat). That Merckx guy he must have cheated and Indurain you know Big Mig was on the juice Now you'll probably say that the entire peloton is cheating. And of course that I'm taking performance enhancing drugs so that I can type faster.

    Small people often like to see heroes fail, to bring them down to their level, rather than striving to be heroes themselves.

  15. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by birdman23
    This contradicts what you have previously said. From some of your earlier statements you allude that gradual progress can't be valid. They must have incredible "palmares" right from the get go.

    Fine, Big Mig was documented with great physical characteristics long before he started winning the tour. But so did LA. He was beating professional triathletes at the age of 16 because of freakish Vo2 capacity.

    So it's OK for Mig to gradually progress but not LA? I don't recall but was Lance the designated GC contender for Motorola pre-cancer?

    Actually, I remember hearing Motorola's philosophy on pushing too hard too young. The coach said that a rider's body simply is not mature enough until past the mid 20's to ride a Tour de France to win. There is too much risk that permanent damage, although not obvious, would remain. You might only see evidence of this in the rider's later performance--for example, in their late 20's, early 30's. They didn't want to waste Lance's talents during his career building years in the early 20's to win the Tour.

    I think they did designate him as the GC contender, but they didn't want to push him to actually follow through for the whole race. They wanted him to build up to it and stay healthy.

  16. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by limerickman

    I don't accept that a successful one day rider - who contracts cancer and survives it - can then go on to become a great stage race in the way LA has.

    I don't accept that a rider who had no ability to win stage races
    (apart from two moderately rated national tours in the USA)
    can improve to the extent that Lance Armstrong has done during the period 1998-now.

    His explanations for his improvement simply do not ring true.

    Well, why don't you read what I just posted above about the Motorola philosophy for riding the Tour. Then also talk to a sports physiologist about what a dramatic change on performance in cycling a drop of 18 pounds of upper body mass will have. Then also consider that Lance has a very unique metabolism. It's different in the sense that his muscles do not develop lactic acid buildup nearly the way even most elite cyclists do when he rides. This is a medically documented fact and has led to his proclamation that doctors were first telling him that he was an extraordinary human specimen, capable of progressing as far as he might want to go in cycling before he got cancer, to saying that he was a dud after he got it. Well, he did recover, and this low lactic acid gift he has has served him well. But you don't mention any of these things.

    Your statements are so egregiously incorrect that they may be termed libelous.

  17. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by gntlmn
    ...Your statements are so egregiously incorrect that they may be termed libelous.

    Maybe not libelous, certainly ignorant.

  18. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by lutenegger
    Maybe not libelous, certainly ignorant.

    😄

  19. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by lutenegger
    Your probaby to cynical to actually read Armstrongs books when he talks about racing before and after cancer. Your arguments a little weak All great tour riders started as being great one day riders. No person ever started as a Multi-stage rider.

    I disagree.

    There are two methods where riders have progressed toward their eventual palamares.
    You get the exceptional individuals like Merckx, Hinault and Ullrich who debut at the very highest level
    (suggest reading their palmares - their respective debuts saw them on the podium of their first TDF)
    Others like BigMig, Kelly etc won prestigious stage races before
    winning a grand tour.
    They progressed their way toward their eventual palmares.

    Armstrong did neither.
    He had the ability to win one day races but he was completely incapable of performing in stage races - apart from the Tour DuPont.
    In relative terms, the Tour Du Pont wouldn't be at the level of a Midi Libre - never mind a Paris-Nice and is miles below the standard of a European National Tour (France, Italy, Spain,
    Switzerland).

    but I'm not hearing Ullrichs a cheater even though he's never finished worse than 2nd (still an amazing feat). That Merckx guy he must have cheated and Indurain you know Big Mig was on the juice Now you'll probably say that the entire peloton is cheating. And of course that I'm taking performance enhancing drugs so that I can type faster.

    You're right - you're not hearing accusations of cheating against Merckx, BigMig or Ullrich from me.
    So your last statement is correct.

  20. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by gntlmn

    Then also consider that Lance has a very unique metabolism. It's different in the sense that his muscles do not develop lactic acid buildup nearly the way even most elite cyclists do when he rides. This is a medically documented fact and has led to his proclamation that doctors were first telling him that he was an extraordinary human specimen, capable of progressing as far as he might want to go in cycling before he got cancer, to saying that he was a dud after he got it. Well, he did recover, and this low lactic acid gift he has has served him well. But you don't mention any of these things.

    Your statements are so egregiously incorrect that they may be termed libelous.

    Low lactic threshold.
    Let's look at this logically.
    If this low lactic threshold was evident - how come it did not power him to win any stage races between 1992-1996 ?
    Elsewhere you repeat the claim about LA's VOmax and his record as a triathlete.
    How come that too didn't power him to win any stage races between 1992-1996 ?
    How come he never won a classment jersey in any of the big tours between 1992-1996 ?
    How come he wasn't even placed near the podium in any of the big tours or great stages races between 1992-1996 ?
    If he had such a low lactic threshold and such a high VO max - how he come he only managed to complete 1 TDF in 4 starts
    and finish 36th in the only TDF he did manage to finish between
    1992-1996 ?

    I'd appreciate it if you could answer me these questions and then perhaps you might begin to
    convince me that what we have seen since 1998 from LA is
    genuine.

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.