General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Is irritability & tiredness after sex normal?

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
6 February 2004
Last activity
9 March 2004
Original author
Anon
Posts
38
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  1. Anon said:


    Hi, I'm a healthy 30 year old male, but ever since puberty I have noticed that I get the following
    symptoms almost immediately after any form of ejaculation:

    Moodiness & Irritability Tiredness (perhaps causing the above) Dry eyes Dark circles under eyes
    (looking tired)

    Most of the above *appear* to link into sudden onset of tiredness, but that may not be the cause.

    Quoted message said:

    [censored], as this drains the body of vital energies through the semen. For me it seems that a
    scientific interpretation of this is that the sudden release of semen causes the male body to
    suddenly go into a different state and start replacing the lost fluids. We've all heard of the
    typical male who rolls over and falls asleep after making love to his wife.

    The problem I have is that my girlfriend (and past ones) have all commented

    Quoted message said:

    honest it does always cause relationship problems for me. (Sometimes it's

    Quoted message said:

    at night - spontaneity is nice!)

    So, is this normal?

    More importantly, what can be done to stop it? (Other than the obvious)

    I suspected I might have relatively high levels of Testosterone, which may contribute to this. A
    recent test confirmed I was within the normal reference range (8.4 - 28.7 nmol/L), but only just,
    at 28.6 nmol/L. Would this be the cause, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

    Incidentally, I find I can be irritable anyway from time to time even with

    Quoted message said:

    times worse than that.

    Thanks in advance, on behalf of me, and my girlfriend!

    Fred

    Try going to a chinese medicine practioner. All of your symptoms tell me you have an imbalance which
    can be easily corrected with acupunture and herbs.

    sue

  2. "Anon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi, I'm a healthy 30 year old male, but ever since puberty I have noticed that I get the following
    symptoms almost immediately after any form of ejaculation:

    Moodiness & Irritability Tiredness (perhaps causing the above) Dry eyes Dark circles under eyes
    (looking tired)

    Most of the above *appear* to link into sudden onset of tiredness, but


    that

    Quoted message said:

    may not be the cause.

    Quoted message said:

    [censored], as this drains the body of vital energies through the semen.


    For

    Quoted message said:

    me it seems that a scientific interpretation of this is that the sudden release of semen causes
    the male body to suddenly go into a different


    state

    Quoted message said:

    and start replacing the lost fluids. We've all heard of the typical male who rolls over and falls
    asleep after making love to his wife.

    The problem I have is that my girlfriend (and past ones) have all


    commented

    Quoted message said:

    honest it does always cause relationship problems for me. (Sometimes it's

    Quoted message said:

    at night - spontaneity is nice!)

    So, is this normal?

    More importantly, what can be done to stop it? (Other than the obvious)

    I suspected I might have relatively high levels of Testosterone, which may contribute to this. A
    recent test confirmed I was within the normal reference range (8.4 - 28.7 nmol/L), but only just,
    at 28.6 nmol/L. Would this be the cause, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

    Incidentally, I find I can be irritable anyway from time to time even with

    Quoted message said:

    times worse than that.

    Thanks in advance, on behalf of me, and my girlfriend!

    Fred


    You are not only barking up the wrong tree, you shouldn't be barking at all, and especially
    not at trees.

    Go see your doctor. You need allergy medication.

    rg

  3. Sorry, I forgot to say, serious replies only please.

    "Anon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi, I'm a healthy 30 year old male, but ever since puberty I have noticed that I get the following
    symptoms almost immediately after any form of ejaculation:

    Moodiness & Irritability Tiredness (perhaps causing the above) Dry eyes Dark circles under eyes
    (looking tired)

    Most of the above *appear* to link into sudden onset of tiredness, but


    that

    Quoted message said:

    may not be the cause.

    Quoted message said:

    [censored], as this drains the body of vital energies through the semen.


    For

    Quoted message said:

    me it seems that a scientific interpretation of this is that the sudden release of semen causes
    the male body to suddenly go into a different


    state

    Quoted message said:

    and start replacing the lost fluids. We've all heard of the typical male who rolls over and falls
    asleep after making love to his wife.

    The problem I have is that my girlfriend (and past ones) have all


    commented

    Quoted message said:

    honest it does always cause relationship problems for me. (Sometimes it's

    Quoted message said:

    at night - spontaneity is nice!)

    So, is this normal?

    More importantly, what can be done to stop it? (Other than the obvious)

    I suspected I might have relatively high levels of Testosterone, which may contribute to this. A
    recent test confirmed I was within the normal reference range (8.4 - 28.7 nmol/L), but only just,
    at 28.6 nmol/L. Would this be the cause, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

    Incidentally, I find I can be irritable anyway from time to time even with

    Quoted message said:

    times worse than that.

    Thanks in advance, on behalf of me, and my girlfriend!

    Fred

  4. Can you elaborate a little on the allergy medicine you suggest? Are you just being funny, or can you
    tell me why you think I have an allergy?

    Cheers.

    "rg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Anon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi, I'm a healthy 30 year old male, but ever since puberty I have


    noticed

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    that I get the following symptoms almost immediately after any form of ejaculation:

    Moodiness & Irritability Tiredness (perhaps causing the above) Dry eyes Dark circles under eyes
    (looking tired)

    Most of the above *appear* to link into sudden onset of tiredness, but


    that

    Quoted message said:

    may not be the cause.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    [censored], as this drains the body of vital energies through the semen.


    For

    Quoted message said:

    me it seems that a scientific interpretation of this is that the sudden release of semen causes
    the male body to suddenly go into a different


    state

    Quoted message said:

    and start replacing the lost fluids. We've all heard of the typical


    male

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    who rolls over and falls asleep after making love to his wife.

    The problem I have is that my girlfriend (and past ones) have all


    commented

    be

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    honest it does always cause relationship problems for me. (Sometimes


    it's

    late

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    at night - spontaneity is nice!)

    So, is this normal?

    More importantly, what can be done to stop it? (Other than the obvious)

    I suspected I might have relatively high levels of Testosterone, which


    may

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    contribute to this. A recent test confirmed I was within the normal reference range (8.4 - 28.7
    nmol/L), but only just, at 28.6 nmol/L.


    Would

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    this be the cause, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

    Incidentally, I find I can be irritable anyway from time to time even


    with

    10

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    times worse than that.

    Thanks in advance, on behalf of me, and my girlfriend!

    Fred


    You are not only barking up the wrong tree, you shouldn't be barking at


    all,

    Quoted message said:

    and especially not at trees.

    Go see your doctor. You need allergy medication.

    rg

  5. "Anon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Can you elaborate a little on the allergy medicine you suggest? Are you just being funny, or can
    you tell me why you think I have an allergy?

    Cheers.

    "rg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Anon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi, I'm a healthy 30 year old male, but ever since puberty I have


    noticed

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    that I get the following symptoms almost immediately after any form of ejaculation:

    Moodiness & Irritability Tiredness (perhaps causing the above) Dry eyes Dark circles under
    eyes (looking tired)

    Most of the above *appear* to link into sudden onset of tiredness, but


    that

    Quoted message said:

    may not be the cause.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    [censored], as this drains the body of vital energies through the


    semen.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    For

    Quoted message said:

    me it seems that a scientific interpretation of this is that the


    sudden

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    release of semen causes the male body to suddenly go into a different


    state

    Quoted message said:

    and start replacing the lost fluids. We've all heard of the typical


    male

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    who rolls over and falls asleep after making love to his wife.

    The problem I have is that my girlfriend (and past ones) have all


    commented

    to

    Quoted message said:

    be

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    honest it does always cause relationship problems for me. (Sometimes


    it's

    Quoted message said:

    late

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    at night - spontaneity is nice!)

    So, is this normal?

    More importantly, what can be done to stop it? (Other than the


    obvious)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    I suspected I might have relatively high levels of Testosterone, which


    may

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    contribute to this. A recent test confirmed I was within the normal reference range (8.4 -
    28.7 nmol/L), but only just, at 28.6 nmol/L.


    Would

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    this be the cause, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

    Incidentally, I find I can be irritable anyway from time to time even


    with

    is

    Quoted message said:

    10

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    times worse than that.

    Thanks in advance, on behalf of me, and my girlfriend!

    Fred


    You are not only barking up the wrong tree, you shouldn't be barking at


    all,

    Quoted message said:

    and especially not at trees.

    Go see your doctor. You need allergy medication.

    rg


    I am not being funny.

    Tiredness (lethargy) possibly causing your moodiness and irritability Dry Eyes Dark circles
    under the eyes

    Could be allergy signs and symptoms or something else. If the area under your eyes are also swollen
    (edema) then that would be another factor in favor of allergy at your age.

    Consult your ear, eye nose and throat physician.

    rg

  6. "Anon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    So, is this normal?


    No

    Quoted message said:


    More importantly, what can be done to stop it? (Other than the obvious)


    A good head srink may be able to answer this one.

    Would

    Quoted message said:

    this be the cause, or am I barking up the wrong tree?


    Yes, you are barking at the wrong thing.

    Quoted message said:


    Incidentally, I find I can be irritable anyway from time to time even with

    Quoted message said:

    times worse than that.

    Thanks in advance, on behalf of me, and my girlfriend!

    Fred


    Fred, you should see someone professional about this. Asking on a NG will only add to your
    confusion. Best, mdd

  7. Quoted message said:

    Most of the above *appear* to link into sudden onset of tiredness, but that may not be the cause.

    I`ve heard many comments in the past about the sudden tiredness afterwards - many from my wife who
    can`t relax for me snoring :-}

    --
    Please add "[newsgroup]" in the subject of any personal replies via email
    * old email address "btiruseless" abandoned due to worm-generated spam * --- My new email address
    has "ngspamtrap" & @btinternet.com in it ;-) ---

  8. "Anon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi, I'm a healthy 30 year old male, but ever since puberty I have noticed that I get the following
    symptoms almost immediately after any form of ejaculation:

    Moodiness & Irritability Tiredness (perhaps causing the above) Dry eyes Dark circles under eyes
    (looking tired)

    See your doctor and have yourself tested for either a hormonal imbalance. Are you using alcohol or
    drugs before these incidents? Get professional medical advice.

    --
    I want my... I want my...

    tinyurl.com34h7l

  9. Does that stuff really work?

    "suzee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Anon said:


    Hi, I'm a healthy 30 year old male, but ever since puberty I have


    noticed

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    that I get the following symptoms almost immediately after any form of ejaculation:

    Moodiness & Irritability Tiredness (perhaps causing the above) Dry eyes Dark circles under eyes
    (looking tired)

    Most of the above *appear* to link into sudden onset of tiredness, but


    that

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    may not be the cause.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    [censored], as this drains the body of vital energies through the semen.


    For

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    me it seems that a scientific interpretation of this is that the sudden release of semen causes
    the male body to suddenly go into a different


    state

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    and start replacing the lost fluids. We've all heard of the typical


    male

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    who rolls over and falls asleep after making love to his wife.

    The problem I have is that my girlfriend (and past ones) have all


    commented

    be

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    honest it does always cause relationship problems for me. (Sometimes


    it's

    late

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    at night - spontaneity is nice!)

    So, is this normal?

    More importantly, what can be done to stop it? (Other than the obvious)

    I suspected I might have relatively high levels of Testosterone, which


    may

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    contribute to this. A recent test confirmed I was within the normal reference range (8.4 - 28.7
    nmol/L), but only just, at 28.6 nmol/L.


    Would

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    this be the cause, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

    Incidentally, I find I can be irritable anyway from time to time even


    with

    10

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    times worse than that.

    Thanks in advance, on behalf of me, and my girlfriend!

    Fred

    Try going to a chinese medicine practioner. All of your symptoms tell me you have an imbalance
    which can be easily corrected with acupunture and herbs.

    sue

  10. I'm not using alcohol, and 'professional advice' is never as good as sharing people's real life
    experiences. I find professionals in the UK to be most dismissive of such matters, and so far
    haven't found a cause.

    It seems you're all saying one thing though - that it's not normal?

    "d w a c o n" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:u1ZUb.23624$CJ1.4900@lakeread01...

    Quoted message said:


    "Anon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi, I'm a healthy 30 year old male, but ever since puberty I have


    noticed

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    that I get the following symptoms almost immediately after any form of ejaculation:

    Moodiness & Irritability Tiredness (perhaps causing the above) Dry eyes Dark circles under eyes
    (looking tired)

    See your doctor and have yourself tested for either a hormonal imbalance. Are you using alcohol or
    drugs before these incidents? Get professional medical advice.

    --
    I want my... I want my...

    Quoted message said:

    tinyurl.com34h7l

  11. mdd said:


    "Anon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    So, is this normal?


    No

    Quoted message said:


    More importantly, what can be done to stop it? (Other than the obvious)


    A good head srink may be able to answer this one.

    Would

    Quoted message said:

    this be the cause, or am I barking up the wrong tree?


    Yes, you are barking at the wrong thing.

    Quoted message said:


    Incidentally, I find I can be irritable anyway from time to time even with

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    times worse than that.

    Thanks in advance, on behalf of me, and my girlfriend!

    Fred


    Fred, you should see someone professional about this. Asking on a NG will only add to your
    confusion. Best, mdd

    And the answers he's received so far, have told him to see a healthcare practioner. So not a bad
    thing really...

    sue

  12. Anon said:


    Does that stuff really work?

    Yes it does. I worked for an acupunturist and saw a great deal of imrovement in many of our clients.
    We had a couple older ladies who'd had strokes, and every week I saw them get stronger and stronger.
    One came in a wheelchair for her first visit after the stroke - a few weeks later she was walking on
    her own again. It's a little slower acting than Western medicine, but the results go more to the
    root of the problem, and are far longer lasting.

    sue

    Quoted message said:


    "suzee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Anon said:


    Hi, I'm a healthy 30 year old male, but ever since puberty I have


    noticed

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    that I get the following symptoms almost immediately after any form of ejaculation:

    Moodiness & Irritability Tiredness (perhaps causing the above) Dry eyes Dark circles under
    eyes (looking tired)

    Most of the above *appear* to link into sudden onset of tiredness, but


    that

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    may not be the cause.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    [censored], as this drains the body of vital energies through the semen.


    For

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    me it seems that a scientific interpretation of this is that the sudden release of semen
    causes the male body to suddenly go into a different


    state

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    and start replacing the lost fluids. We've all heard of the typical


    male

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    who rolls over and falls asleep after making love to his wife.

    The problem I have is that my girlfriend (and past ones) have all


    commented

    Quoted message said:

    be

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    honest it does always cause relationship problems for me. (Sometimes


    it's

    Quoted message said:

    late

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    at night - spontaneity is nice!)

    So, is this normal?

    More importantly, what can be done to stop it? (Other than the obvious)

    I suspected I might have relatively high levels of Testosterone, which


    may

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    contribute to this. A recent test confirmed I was within the normal reference range (8.4 -
    28.7 nmol/L), but only just, at 28.6 nmol/L.


    Would

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    this be the cause, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

    Incidentally, I find I can be irritable anyway from time to time even


    with

    Quoted message said:

    10

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    times worse than that.

    Thanks in advance, on behalf of me, and my girlfriend!

    Fred

    Try going to a chinese medicine practioner. All of your symptoms tell me you have an imbalance
    which can be easily corrected with acupunture and herbs.

    sue

  13. Anon said:


    I'm not using alcohol, and 'professional advice' is never as good as sharing people's real life
    experiences. I find professionals in the UK to be most dismissive of such matters, and so far
    haven't found a cause.

    It seems you're all saying one thing though - that it's not normal?

    Right. So you need to see someone, though I know doctors probably won't be very sympathetic, which
    is why I suggested chinese medicine.

    sue

  14. "suzee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Anon said:


    I'm not using alcohol, and 'professional advice' is never as good as


    sharing

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    people's real life experiences. I find professionals in the UK to be


    most

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    dismissive of such matters, and so far haven't found a cause.

    It seems you're all saying one thing though - that it's not normal?

    Right. So you need to see someone, though I know doctors probably won't be very sympathetic, which
    is why I suggested chinese medicine.

    sue

    I agree, sue, and here's why.

    Once, when I really wanted some and my American wife was un-sympathetic, I sought out the counsel of
    a Chinese woman.

    Worked wonders and was WONDERFUL!!

    Those chinese really do know their stuff. I highly recommend them.

    Beat the hell out of what American women know, that's for sure!

    Remind me to tell you about it sometime. Good learning experience for women that want to know about
    such things.

    rg

    rg

  15. "rg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...
    |
    | I am not being funny.

    arjee is often amusing, but never funny.

    |
    | Tiredness (lethargy) possibly causing your moodiness and irritability Dry Eyes Dark circles under
    | the eyes
    |
    | Could be allergy signs and symptoms or something else. If the area
    under
    | your eyes are also swollen (edema) then that would be another factor
    in
    | favor of allergy at your age.

    Also, consider going to a naturopathic doctor - you might have a "hidden" food allergy, that is, a
    low-level allergy to something that's constantly in your diet. For many people, it's often a grain.
    Try giving up cereal, bread, and beer for a month.

    Tom

  16. Colin Wilson <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Most of the above *appear* to link into sudden onset of tiredness, but that may not be the
    cause.

    I`ve heard many comments in the past about the sudden tiredness afterwards - many from my wife who
    can`t relax for me snoring :-}

    There is a remote possibility, or not so remote that you could have sleep apnea. I was just
    diagnosed with it and now my wife doesn't sleep with the human chainsaw. See your GP and ask him
    about a sleep study. All good medicine, GREENFEATHER

  17. ROB said:


    Colin Wilson <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Most of the above *appear* to link into sudden onset of tiredness, but that may not be the
    cause.

    I`ve heard many comments in the past about the sudden tiredness afterwards - many from my wife
    who can`t relax for me snoring :-}

    There is a remote possibility, or not so remote that you could have sleep apnea. I was just
    diagnosed with it and now my wife doesn't sleep with the human chainsaw. See your GP and ask him
    about a sleep study. All good medicine, GREENFEATHER

    He didn't mention really loud snoring, which is a major symptom of sleep apnea. Along with being
    unable to stay awake during the daytime, and waking up feeling like the dead, or that you hadn't
    slept in months. Which a person with sleep apnea usually hasn't. It might not hurt to check it out,
    but I don't think it's a problem for him.

    sue

  18. Tom Allen said:


    "rg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
    |
    | I am not being funny.

    arjee is often amusing, but never funny.

    |
    | Tiredness (lethargy) possibly causing your moodiness and irritability Dry Eyes Dark circles
    | under the eyes
    |
    | Could be allergy signs and symptoms or something else. If the area
    under
    | your eyes are also swollen (edema) then that would be another factor
    in
    | favor of allergy at your age.

    Also, consider going to a naturopathic doctor - you might have a "hidden" food allergy, that is, a
    low-level allergy to something that's constantly in your diet. For many people, it's often a
    grain. Try giving up cereal, bread, and beer for a month.

    Or dairy. With the dark circles around your eyes, it's dairy, especially if you're of
    European ancestry.

    sue

  19. rg said:


    "suzee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Anon said:


    I'm not using alcohol, and 'professional advice' is never as good as


    sharing

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    people's real life experiences. I find professionals in the UK to be


    most

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    dismissive of such matters, and so far haven't found a cause.

    It seems you're all saying one thing though - that it's not normal?

    Right. So you need to see someone, though I know doctors probably won't be very sympathetic,
    which is why I suggested chinese medicine.

    sue

    I agree, sue, and here's why.

    Once, when I really wanted some and my American wife was un-sympathetic, I sought out the counsel
    of a Chinese woman.

    Worked wonders and was WONDERFUL!!

    Those chinese really do know their stuff. I highly recommend them.

    Beat the hell out of what American women know, that's for sure!

    Remind me to tell you about it sometime. Good learning experience for women that want to know
    about such things.

    rg,

    THpppppttt!!!! :Þ

    sue

  20. "suzee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    rg said:


    "suzee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Anon wrote:
    >
    > I'm not using alcohol, and 'professional advice' is never as good as


    sharing

    Quoted message said:

    > people's real life experiences. I find professionals in the UK to


    be

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    most

    Quoted message said:

    > dismissive of such matters, and so far haven't found a cause.
    >
    > It seems you're all saying one thing though - that it's not normal?

    Right. So you need to see someone, though I know doctors probably


    won't

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    be very sympathetic, which is why I suggested chinese medicine.

    sue

    I agree, sue, and here's why.

    Once, when I really wanted some and my American wife was un-sympathetic,


    I

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    sought out the counsel of a Chinese woman.

    Worked wonders and was WONDERFUL!!

    Those chinese really do know their stuff. I highly recommend them.

    Beat the hell out of what American women know, that's for sure!

    Remind me to tell you about it sometime. Good learning experience for


    women

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    that want to know about such things.

    rg,

    THpppppttt!!!! :Þ

    sue

    🙂 Truth hurts.

    rg

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