Is carbon overrated?

Carbon is often heavier for a bar & stem - but it's VERY comfortable in terms of reducing vibration to the hands - which is a huge cause of fatigue.

On the other hand - I think that weight is often overrated on bikes - you pay a LOT for the last 30gram saving. I weigh 100kgs, and compared to a 65kg climber, I am carrying a LOT of sugar bags up the hill in extra weight. Even adding two bottles to a bike makes the whole 60gram saving on a seat look silly - and I need those bottles in summer!

I am about to put a carbon ergo bar on my bike - not for any other reason than to be comfortable! 🙂

Whatever works for you is good. You can always have stronger legs....

pixelmill said:

Carbon is often heavier for a bar & stem - but it's VERY comfortable in terms of reducing vibration to the hands - which is a huge cause of fatigue.

On the other hand - I think that weight is often overrated on bikes - you pay a LOT for the last 30gram saving. I weigh 100kgs, and compared to a 65kg climber, I am carrying a LOT of sugar bags up the hill in extra weight. Even adding two bottles to a bike makes the whole 60gram saving on a seat look silly - and I need those bottles in summer!

I am about to put a carbon ergo bar on my bike - not for any other reason than to be comfortable! 🙂

Whatever works for you is good. You can always have stronger legs....

I like your view. Some people pay $150 for skewers which save them 30g, someone I know just payed $7,500 for wheels (guess what brand) which do save alot, but cost $7.50 a gram. When you put two bottles on your bike, that is a huge amount of money wasted by two $5 pieces of plastic. Funny isn't it. I have set my bike up for stiffness, with comfort in mind, but more for racing. Besides, tyre pressure is the biggest factor when it comes to comfort.

Can a steel or alu bike, with no cf, still make the 6.8kg limit? Or is it only capable with cf?

Where does titanium figure in all this? Where is it in weight/strength compared to the rest?

The Baum Ristretto... cf and titanium... and you'll need pedals to bring it up to 6.8kg.

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fauxpas said:

[img]cyclingnews.comDSCN2980.jpgOpen ↗[/img]

Is it just me, or do those look like crappy welds?

Yes, a steel or aluminium bike can be set at the 6.8 kg limit. The bianchi FGlite aluminium is EXTREMELY light, at about 950g for the frame. The BAUM reynolds 953 bike (I think it is the ONE or something) has a 1kg frame. Many good carbon frames are heavier than that. Titanium is a metal, so it is classed with aluminium with the other metals, or perhaps in a separate category, the amazing element. The BAUM Ristretto is a bloody spectacular machine. If you own one, I'd pay the whatever-it-costs-now air fare to NSW in the hope that you'd let me ride it for a while. It is very pricey though.

Those may look like crappy welds, but titanium is the hardest of the metals to weld and it is impossible to mask errors. Baum are amazing artisans and wouldn't charge $5,600 for the frame alone, with crappy welds.

Yep, welding was my first apprenticeship out of school in 1982. Not only was Ti expensive, it took so long to learn how to weld properly my college never even attempted it...

bobbyOCR said:

Those may look like crappy welds, but titanium is the hardest of the metals to weld and it is impossible to mask errors. Baum are amazing artisans and wouldn't charge $5,600 for the frame alone, with crappy welds.

This is what I want to see when I see titanium:

One nice thing about Campy's carbon brake levers is that in cold weather they are not as cold to the touch as metal.

Anyway, for the most part carbon parts are unneeded and often way overrated, but what isn't in the bike industry. It's all about the bling, baby.

This is painted... the Ristretto is not...

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Yes CF is overrated. It was 'sold' to us as the next big thing after we had gotten over Alu frames and the like. It adds little (we now have all bought into the marketing of dampening effects, etc) and most of what is achieved with CF can be done, usually with less weight, through metals.

The real problem is just how sexy CF kit looks....🙄

fauxpas said:

This is painted... the Ristretto is not...

It is not painted. It is bare metal. That is what a Moots weld looks like.

Bro Deal said:

It is not painted. It is bare metal. That is what a Moots weld looks like.

Not painted? I think ya dreaming...

fauxpas said:

Not painted? I think ya dreaming...

Seriously, dude. I have the same frame. All the welds look just like that picture.

BTW, how do you get pictures to not be attachments and show up full sized?

Bro Deal said:

Seriously, dude. I have the same frame. All the welds look just like that picture.

I believe the weld look like that, but that aint bare metal...

fauxpas said:

I believe the weld look like that, but that aint bare metal...

What makes you think that? I can verify it is not painted.

I think the carbon bling factor is as over rated as the Italian surcharge (campy not included).
When a "light" rider at 65kg plus bike and gear at 10kg (75kg total) gains 100gms that only a percentage increase of 0.13% so 1kg is of course only 1.3% difference. So for that rider a 7.7kg bike instead of a 6.7kg bike only makes 1.3% difference. Yeah ok if your a pro or super serious A grade rider 1.3% will cost you a few hill top sprints.
However
If you weigh a more realistic 80kg, plus 10kg of bike and gear, an extra kg sets you back 1.1 cercent.

How much money does it cost to get 1 kg off your bike????
Shimano 550s weigh about 1800gms and cost $400AUD. Light weights don't save 1kg off that and cost how much (i suspect somebody posted this above...) Most people can only afford wheels around the 1500gm mark.

A steel frame may weigh about 1800gms, an equivalent Al frame maybe 1300gms, and carbon (the bling material) can get down to 900gms. Any frame material can cost an arm and a leg, but still hard to loose 1kg off your current frame.

Handle bars in Al or carbon weigh about the same. Carbon is more comfortable, but if you need carbon bars to ride, check you bike fit!

Cranks are about the same for carbon and Al. Infact DA cranks are probably the stiffest and most durable light weight cranks out there. A few $100 over Ultegra for DAs or carbon saves how much??

So in summary getting back to the topic, carbon fibre splashed all over a bike "to save weight" and "increase comfort" is over rated. Carbon seat posts are good for the comfort factor, but for most people an all AL Cannondale or nice steel frame with decent kit is going to give you 99.5% of the speed of any carbon master piece from Italy. Use the rest of the money to pay off the house.

I think they should increase the weight limit for bikes, but the manufacturers would go nuts as there would be less reason for cashed up customers to keep upgrading!

Bro Deal said:

What makes you think that? I can verify it is not painted.

My mum's wedding rings are titanium, and they look like the ristretto, not like that other frame...

I figure that other frame and ti watches have something done to them to look so flat... bland... like undercoat paint...

aha... I think I know what it is, and my bad for not realising...

The difference between Ti and Ti alloy...

I'd been thinking any referrence to Ti = pure Ti, and not Ti alloys, such as used in Ti watches, which DO look like that frame of yours...

Bro Deal said:

This is what I want to see when I see titanium:

Is that your bike? if so, niiiiccceee