Bending your knees helps minimize sway but is it cheating? Is doing
that compromising the excercise in some way? You back and arms are
obviously still lifting the same amount of weight.
John Black
General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion
Is bending your knees cheating on pullups
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- 11 January 2006
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this is like a joke question. why do you do it? doesn't it
make the pull-up easier? then it's cheating. depends on your
goals tho. if you're training for a pullup competition which
allows any body movement, then it's fine.
....thehick -
John Black said:
Bending your knees helps minimize sway but is it cheating?
If some guy other than your steady BF is ramming you, then yes it is
cheating. -
"John Black" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...Quoted message said:
Bending your knees helps minimize sway but is it cheating? Is doing
that compromising the excercise in some way? You back and arms are
obviously still lifting the same amount of weight.Here is a bit from the TSC web site - they host competitions that
include pullups - I see no mention of bending the knees as being a
problem. I have heard of some people who don't think it's good, but I
don't see the problem. I do it when I do pullups most of the time, but
I lower fully into a dead hang between each rep as the rules below
suggest.http://www.the-tsc.com/rules.html
For pullups, the competitor will approach the bar, grasp it with both
hands, and settle into a dead hang with both arms fully straightened.
(Competitors may initially stand on a block or box in order to reach the
bar.) After settling into a dead hang, the competitor will pull with
both arms, using no kipping or swinging, and pull up until the neck or
the chest cleanly touches the bar. The competitor will then lower back
to a dead hang and do another rep.For each successful rep, the referee will count 1, 2, 3, and so on. The
set is terminated when the competitor quits or fails to make three
successive attempts.-end quote-
-
"using no kipping or swinging"
Ok. I think the Op means to bring his knees up whilst
his body is being pulled up. This probably is what
kipping means in this context. If he were to just start with
knees up and stationary, and then pull solidly up without
moving the knees at all, that's OK.
most people start the pullup or chinup and then the knees come
up with some speed. when they reach the top the
momentum of the lower body gives an assist and allows
an otherwise incomplete up to be completed.
....thehick -
John Black said:
Bending your knees helps minimize sway but is it cheating? Is doing
that compromising the excercise in some way? You back and arms are
obviously still lifting the same amount of weight.
If it tilts you backward, then it makes the movement easier. -
"thehick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...Quoted message said:
"using no kipping or swinging"
Ok. I think the Op means to bring his knees up whilst
his body is being pulled up. This probably is what
kipping means in this context.No, I don't think so. A "kip" is an explosive swing of the body to
propel it upwards. A slow, controlled raising of the legs while chinning
up is not a kip.Quoted message said:
If he were to just start with
knees up and stationary, and then pull solidly up without
moving the knees at all, that's OK.
most people start the pullup or chinup and then the knees come
up with some speed. when they reach the top the
momentum of the lower body gives an assist and allows
an otherwise incomplete up to be completed.All a matter of degree, I suppose.
FWIW, one of my favorite exercises is to to pullups with a 30 lb.
dumbbell held between my feet. I do a hanging leg raise, bringing my
thighs to 90 degrees, while I pullup, then I lower my legs as I lower
the rest of me. Bodyweight-only pullups are pretty boring for me (I'm
light and I'm good for 15 of them or so with no specific training) and I
find this an interesting variation.Quoted message said:
...thehick
-
thehick said:
"using no kipping or swinging"
Ok. I think the Op means to bring his knees up whilst
his body is being pulled up. This probably is what
kipping means in this context. If he were to just start with
knees up and stationary, and then pull solidly up without
moving the knees at all, that's OK.
most people start the pullup or chinup and then the knees come
up with some speed. when they reach the top the
momentum of the lower body gives an assist and allows
an otherwise incomplete up to be completed.If you use large plates on a dip belt ...
[1] You need to use your knees to grip the plate;
[2] Bending at the knees is necessary for that; and
[3] Kipping is impossible while gripping the plate with your knees. -
"JMW" <[email hidden]> wrote
Quoted message said:
thehick said:
"using no kipping or swinging"
Ok. I think the Op means to bring his knees up whilst
his body is being pulled up. This probably is what
kipping means in this context. If he were to just start with
knees up and stationary, and then pull solidly up without
moving the knees at all, that's OK.
most people start the pullup or chinup and then the knees come
up with some speed. when they reach the top the
momentum of the lower body gives an assist and allows
an otherwise incomplete up to be completed.If you use large plates on a dip belt ...
Ha! Dip belt!! REAL men like me just hang the weights from our [censored].
I'm up to the 1.25 pound Platemate 🙂
David
-
"JMW" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...Quoted message said:
thehick said:
"using no kipping or swinging"
Ok. I think the Op means to bring his knees up whilst
his body is being pulled up. This probably is what
kipping means in this context. If he were to just start with
knees up and stationary, and then pull solidly up without
moving the knees at all, that's OK.
most people start the pullup or chinup and then the knees come
up with some speed. when they reach the top the
momentum of the lower body gives an assist and allows
an otherwise incomplete up to be completed.If you use large plates on a dip belt ...
[1] You need to use your knees to grip the plate;
[2] Bending at the knees is necessary for that; and
[3] Kipping is impossible while gripping the plate with your knees.I'm interested to hear more about this. I worked up to bw + 100 lbs.
but made sure I had four 25's for the purpose - anything larger was
really cumbersome. At no point do I recall having to use my knees,
though - the weights just hung on the chain on the dipping belt. -
Steve Freides said:
JMW said:
thehick said:
"using no kipping or swinging"
Ok. I think the Op means to bring his knees up whilst
his body is being pulled up. This probably is what
kipping means in this context. If he were to just start with
knees up and stationary, and then pull solidly up without
moving the knees at all, that's OK.
most people start the pullup or chinup and then the knees come
up with some speed. when they reach the top the
momentum of the lower body gives an assist and allows
an otherwise incomplete up to be completed.If you use large plates on a dip belt ...
[1] You need to use your knees to grip the plate;
[2] Bending at the knees is necessary for that; and
[3] Kipping is impossible while gripping the plate with your knees.I'm interested to hear more about this. I worked up to bw + 100 lbs.
but made sure I had four 25's for the purpose - anything larger was
really cumbersome. At no point do I recall having to use my knees,
though - the weights just hung on the chain on the dipping belt. -
"JMW" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...Quoted message said:
Steve Freides said:
JMW said:
"thehick" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>"using no kipping or swinging"
>Ok. I think the Op means to bring his knees up whilst
>his body is being pulled up. This probably is what
>kipping means in this context. If he were to just start with
>knees up and stationary, and then pull solidly up without
>moving the knees at all, that's OK.
>most people start the pullup or chinup and then the knees come
>up with some speed. when they reach the top the
>momentum of the lower body gives an assist and allows
>an otherwise incomplete up to be completed.If you use large plates on a dip belt ...
[1] You need to use your knees to grip the plate;
[2] Bending at the knees is necessary for that; and
[3] Kipping is impossible while gripping the plate with your knees.I'm interested to hear more about this. I worked up to bw + 100 lbs.
but made sure I had four 25's for the purpose - anything larger was
really cumbersome. At no point do I recall having to use my knees,
though - the weights just hung on the chain on the dipping belt.I still don't see where "you need to use your knees" - it's not all that
big a deal, just curious. What happens if the plates just hang there
and you don't hold them with your knees?Also that's a less than ideal setup, where you have to bend your legs to
hang. I've got a bar at the bottom of the basement steps and it works
out great - I can stand on the first step and lean forward just a bit,
grab the bar, but then my feet don't hit the ground after that. I don't
know what it is but having to bend your knees seems to make pullups
harder. -
Steve Freides said:
"JMW" wrote
Quoted message said:
thehick said:
"using no kipping or swinging"
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Ok. I think the Op means to bring his knees up whilst
his body is being pulled up. This probably is what
kipping means in this context. If he were to just start with
knees up and stationary, and then pull solidly up without
moving the knees at all, that's OK.Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
most people start the pullup or chinup and then the knees come
up with some speed. when they reach the top the
momentum of the lower body gives an assist and allows
an otherwise incomplete up to be completed.If you use large plates on a dip belt ...
[1] You need to use your knees to grip the plate;
[2] Bending at the knees is necessary for that; and
[3] Kipping is impossible while gripping the plate with your knees.I'm interested to hear more about this. I worked up to bw + 100 lbs.
but made sure I had four 25's for the purpose - anything larger was
really cumbersome. At no point do I recall having to use my knees,
though - the weights just hung on the chain on the dipping belt.The knees make sure the weights don't shift. They might swing some
at the top or when getting down from the pull-up bar/station. -
Steve Freides said:
JMW said:
Steve Freides said:
"JMW" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> "thehick" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>>"using no kipping or swinging"
>>Ok. I think the Op means to bring his knees up whilst
>>his body is being pulled up. This probably is what
>>kipping means in this context. If he were to just start with
>>knees up and stationary, and then pull solidly up without
>>moving the knees at all, that's OK.
>>most people start the pullup or chinup and then the knees come
>>up with some speed. when they reach the top the
>>momentum of the lower body gives an assist and allows
>>an otherwise incomplete up to be completed.
>
> If you use large plates on a dip belt ...
>
> [1] You need to use your knees to grip the plate;
> [2] Bending at the knees is necessary for that; and
> [3] Kipping is impossible while gripping the plate with your knees.I'm interested to hear more about this. I worked up to bw + 100 lbs.
but made sure I had four 25's for the purpose - anything larger was
really cumbersome. At no point do I recall having to use my knees,
though - the weights just hung on the chain on the dipping belt.I still don't see where "you need to use your knees" - it's not all that
big a deal, just curious. What happens if the plates just hang there
and you don't hold them with your knees?Also that's a less than ideal setup, where you have to bend your legs to
hang. I've got a bar at the bottom of the basement steps and it works
out great - I can stand on the first step and lean forward just a bit,
grab the bar, but then my feet don't hit the ground after that. I don't
know what it is but having to bend your knees seems to make pullups
harder.A little bit. But it reduces swinging and the urge to kip, plus you
don't have a drop at the end of your set. I don't like dropping while
I have a lot of weight on the belt. -
Jeff Finlayson said:
Steve Freides said:
"JMW" wrote
Quoted message said:
"thehick" wrote:
>"using no kipping or swinging"
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
>Ok. I think the Op means to bring his knees up whilst
>his body is being pulled up. This probably is what
>kipping means in this context. If he were to just start with
>knees up and stationary, and then pull solidly up without
>moving the knees at all, that's OK.Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
>most people start the pullup or chinup and then the knees come
>up with some speed. when they reach the top the
>momentum of the lower body gives an assist and allows
>an otherwise incomplete up to be completed.If you use large plates on a dip belt ...
[1] You need to use your knees to grip the plate;
[2] Bending at the knees is necessary for that; and
[3] Kipping is impossible while gripping the plate with your knees.I'm interested to hear more about this. I worked up to bw + 100 lbs.
but made sure I had four 25's for the purpose - anything larger was
really cumbersome. At no point do I recall having to use my knees,
though - the weights just hung on the chain on the dipping belt.The knees make sure the weights don't shift. They might swing some
at the top or when getting down from the pull-up bar/station.The shifting of a heavily weighted chain in the area of your genitals
can lead to great discomfort. -
JMW said:
Jeff Finlayson said:
Steve Freides said:
"JMW" wrote
>"thehick" wrote:
>
>>"using no kipping or swinging"Quoted message said:
>>Ok. I think the Op means to bring his knees up whilst
>>his body is being pulled up. This probably is what
>>kipping means in this context. If he were to just start with
>>knees up and stationary, and then pull solidly up without
>>moving the knees at all, that's OK.Quoted message said:
>>most people start the pullup or chinup and then the knees come
>>up with some speed. when they reach the top the
>>momentum of the lower body gives an assist and allows
>>an otherwise incomplete up to be completed.
>
>If you use large plates on a dip belt ...
>
>[1] You need to use your knees to grip the plate;
>[2] Bending at the knees is necessary for that; and
>[3] Kipping is impossible while gripping the plate with your knees.I'm interested to hear more about this. I worked up to bw + 100 lbs.
but made sure I had four 25's for the purpose - anything larger was
really cumbersome. At no point do I recall having to use my knees,
though - the weights just hung on the chain on the dipping belt.The knees make sure the weights don't shift. They might swing some
at the top or when getting down from the pull-up bar/station.The shifting of a heavily weighted chain in the area of your genitals
can lead to great discomfort.Oh yea. That might not be obvious to a casual reader.
-
David Cohen said:
"JMW" wrote:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
If you use large plates on a dip belt ...
Ha! Dip belt!! REAL men like me just hang the weights from our [censored].
I'm up to the 1.25 pound Platemate 🙂
Keep at it and you might make it to the Trojan Games one day.
http://www.trojangames.co.uk/
😉 -
JMW said:
thehick said:
"using no kipping or swinging"
Ok. I think the Op means to bring his knees up whilst
his body is being pulled up. This probably is what
kipping means in this context. If he were to just start with
knees up and stationary, and then pull solidly up without
moving the knees at all, that's OK.
most people start the pullup or chinup and then the knees come
up with some speed. when they reach the top the
momentum of the lower body gives an assist and allows
an otherwise incomplete up to be completed.If you use large plates on a dip belt ...
[1] You need to use your knees to grip the plate;
That is simply not true; the belt and plate are completely secure and
independent, unless of course you *do* lift your knees, when you risk
the plate hitting you in the nuts.Quoted message said:
[2] Bending at the knees is necessary for that; and
It absolutely is not, and you probably mean raising the thighs and
dropping the lower leg, which while forming right angles at hip and
knee, is hardly "bending the knees".Quoted message said:
[3] Kipping is impossible while gripping the plate with your knees.
I have seen your pull-ups/shins and you certainly "kip", which is
another name for cheating. Any shift of the body line from dead
hang/straight, is a transference of bodyweight, which will encourage
swing. Any lifting of the knees is cheating as it enables upward
momentum.The pull-up and chin should be carried out from the dead hang with the
body and legs remaining straight, although a crossing of the ankles is
acceptable.Your form is atrocious John Williams because you are attempting to
overload with too heavy weights, for the purpose of exhibition and in
the pursuit of vanity. -
JMW said:
Steve Freides said:
JMW said:
"thehick" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>"using no kipping or swinging"
>Ok. I think the Op means to bring his knees up whilst
>his body is being pulled up. This probably is what
>kipping means in this context. If he were to just start with
>knees up and stationary, and then pull solidly up without
>moving the knees at all, that's OK.
>most people start the pullup or chinup and then the knees come
>up with some speed. when they reach the top the
>momentum of the lower body gives an assist and allows
>an otherwise incomplete up to be completed.If you use large plates on a dip belt ...
[1] You need to use your knees to grip the plate;
[2] Bending at the knees is necessary for that; and
[3] Kipping is impossible while gripping the plate with your knees.I'm interested to hear more about this. I worked up to bw + 100 lbs.
but made sure I had four 25's for the purpose - anything larger was
really cumbersome. At no point do I recall having to use my knees,
though - the weights just hung on the chain on the dipping belt.QED!
-
"JMW" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...Quoted message said:
Jeff Finlayson said:
Steve Freides said:
"JMW" wrote
>"thehick" wrote:
>
>>"using no kipping or swinging"Quoted message said:
>>Ok. I think the Op means to bring his knees up whilst
>>his body is being pulled up. This probably is what
>>kipping means in this context. If he were to just start with
>>knees up and stationary, and then pull solidly up without
>>moving the knees at all, that's OK.Quoted message said:
>>most people start the pullup or chinup and then the knees come
>>up with some speed. when they reach the top the
>>momentum of the lower body gives an assist and allows
>>an otherwise incomplete up to be completed.
>
>If you use large plates on a dip belt ...
>
>[1] You need to use your knees to grip the plate;
>[2] Bending at the knees is necessary for that; and
>[3] Kipping is impossible while gripping the plate with your knees.I'm interested to hear more about this. I worked up to bw + 100
lbs.
but made sure I had four 25's for the purpose - anything larger was
really cumbersome. At no point do I recall having to use my knees,
though - the weights just hung on the chain on the dipping belt.The knees make sure the weights don't shift. They might swing some
at the top or when getting down from the pull-up bar/station.The shifting of a heavily weighted chain in the area of your genitals
can lead to great discomfort.This is a very good reason to use 25's instead of 45's. I never thought
about it that way - but I chose 25's because bigger plates would hit the
ground with my setup - obviously 25's are smaller in both directions.
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