Iron may be directly hepatocarcinogenic

<<snip>>
the iron-supplemented diet showed grade 4 iron overload, comparable in
degree with that seen in patients with DIETARY iron overload
<<snip>>

J Pathol. 2005 Nov 8; [Epub ahead of print] Related Articles, Links

Iron-free neoplastic nodules and hepatocellular carcinoma without
cirrhosis in Wistar rats fed a diet high in iron.

Asare GA, Paterson AC, Kew MC, Khan S, Mossanda KS.

MRC/University Molecular Hepatology Research Unit, Department of
Medicine, University of the Witwatersrand and Johannesburg Academic and
Baragwanath Hospitals, South Africa.

Although excess hepatic iron in hereditary haemochromatosis and dietary
iron overload in the African causes hepatocellular carcinoma, it
usually does so in the presence of cirrhosis. A direct
hepatocarcinogenic effect of iron has not been proved. Moreover, an
animal model of hepatocellular carcinoma induced by iron overload has
not been available. The aim of this study was to develop such a model
and to use it to ascertain whether excess hepatic iron is directly
hepatocarcinogenic. Sixty Wistar albino rats were fed a chow diet and
60 the same diet supplemented initially with 2% carbonyl iron for 12
months, followed by 0.5% ferrocene for 20 months. Five rats from each
group were sacrificed every 4 months for 24 months for histological and
biochemical monitoring. By 16 months, hepatocytes in all the rats
receiving the iron-supplemented diet showed grade 4 iron overload,
comparable in degree with that seen in patients with advanced
hereditary haemochromatosis and dietary iron overload. Altered hepatic
foci and pre-neoplastic nodules were first seen at 16 months. These
increased in size and number with time, were iron-free, stained
positively with placental glutathione sulphydryl transferase, and
showed the same histological features as the iron-free foci described
in patients with hepatocellular carcinoma complicating hereditary
haemochromatosis. At 32 months the eight surviving rats in the iron
overloaded group were sacrificed. The livers of five of these rats
contained pre-neoplastic nodules and one showed, in addition, an
iron-free, well-differentiated hepatocellular carcinoma. The tumour
stained positively for placental glutathione sulphydryl transferase.
Neither cirrhosis nor portal fibrosis was present in this or any
iron-loaded animal. We conclude that hepatocellular carcinoma may
complicate dietary hepatic iron overload in Wistar albino rats in the
absence of fibrosis or cirrhosis, confirming an aetiological
association between dietary iron overload and the tumour and suggesting
that iron may be directly hepatocarcinogenic. Copyright (c) 2005
Pathological Society of Great Britain and Ireland. Published by John
Wiley & Sons, Ltd.

PMID: 16278820 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Tom

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Quoted message said:

Surprise, surprise, if you give enough iron to a rat to duplicate those
levels caused by a rare genetic disorder then they too will show some of
the same disorders.

If one makes an effort to duplicate the low iron levels that makes it the
world's number one health problem, then you too will display the same
mental and physical disorders they too display. And we didn't even have
to kill any rats to know this.

Tom is on a mission. At least he posts study abstracts that relate to
his area of interest, unlike the typical pharma blogger who runs amok
on the newsgroups just to distract and distort. But you're right about
iron -- it's the most pronounced nutrient deficiency in the world.

In article <[email hidden]>,

PeterB said:

Quoted message said:

Surprise, surprise, if you give enough iron to a rat to duplicate those
levels caused by a rare genetic disorder then they too will show some of
the same disorders.

If one makes an effort to duplicate the low iron levels that makes it the
world's number one health problem, then you too will display the same
mental and physical disorders they too display. And we didn't even have
to kill any rats to know this.

Tom is on a mission. At least he posts study abstracts that relate to
his area of interest, unlike the typical pharma blogger who runs amok
on the newsgroups just to distract and distort. But you're right about
iron -- it's the most pronounced nutrient deficiency in the world.

True in many places, and especially for women. Ironically (no pun
intended), however, too much iron is a health problem for men,
especially in the industrialized countries.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth

Quoted message said:

.Surprise, surprise, if you give enough iron to a rat to duplicate those

levels caused by a rare genetic disorder <<

Listen dckhead ..

You can't even understand a simple medical study so why are you opening
your stupid .. trap .. ?

The markers used are those markers used for .. DIETARY . iron overload
... those levels achieved REGULARLY by .. DIETARY .. iron overload ..

DIETARY .. iron overload ..DIETARY .. iron overload ..
DIETARY .. iron overload ..DIETARY .. iron overload
DIETARY .. iron overload ..DIETARY .. iron overload ..
DIETARY .. iron overload ..DIETARY .. iron overload
DIETARY .. iron overload ..DIETARY .. iron overload ..
DIETARY .. iron overload ..DIETARY .. iron overload
DIETARY .. iron overload ..DIETARY .. iron overload ..
DIETARY .. iron overload ..DIETARY .. iron overload
DIETARY .. iron overload ..DIETARY .. iron overload ..
DIETARY .. iron overload ..DIETARY .. iron overload
DIETARY .. iron overload ..DIETARY .. iron overload ..
DIETARY .. iron overload ..DIETARY .. iron overload
DIETARY .. iron overload ..DIETARY .. iron overload ..
DIETARY .. iron overload ..DIETARY .. iron overload
DIETARY .. iron overload ..DIETARY .. iron overload ..
DIETARY .. iron overload ..DIETARY .. iron overload
DIETARY .. iron overload ..DIETARY .. iron overload ..
DIETARY .. iron overload ..DIETARY .. iron overload
DIETARY .. iron overload ..DIETARY .. iron overload ..
DIETARY .. iron overload ..DIETARY .. iron overload
DIETARY .. iron overload ..DIETARY .. iron overload ..
DIETARY .. iron overload ..DIETARY .. iron overload

That is .. NOT .. genetic .. iron overload .. NOT .. genetic ..

That is .. NOT .. genetic .. iron overload .. NOT .. genetic ..

Do you .. understand .. ?

Are you just attempting .. AGAIN .. to disrupt a .. thread ..?

Is that what you are doing .. ?

Or ARE you .. TRULY .. as stupid as you .. act ..?

Heh .. heh ..

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

True in many places, and especially for women. Ironically (no pun

intended), however, too much iron is a health problem for men,
especially in the industrialized countries.
<<

So what you are saying is .. "women are bleeding to death .. " ..

Is that what you are saying .. ?

You are saying women .. fed women in the Western World / developed
countries .. fed women are in danger of becoming .. iron .. deficient
... ?

Fed women are in danger of becoming iron ... deficient .. ?

That IS .. what you are saying .. isn't it .. ?

The REAL take on it is .. underfed women .. malnourished women .. are
... iron deficient .. or are in danger of BECOMING iron deficient due to
... starvation ..

THAT is .. reality ..

Fed women are NOT in .. danger .. of becoming iron deficient ..

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

True in many places, and especially for women. Ironically (no pun

intended), however, too much iron is a health problem for men,
especially in the industrialized countries.
<<

So what you are saying is .. "women are bleeding to death .. " ..

Blood loss is a common cause of iron deficiency anemia yes.

Quoted message said:

Is that what you are saying .. ?

You are saying women .. fed women in the Western World / developed
countries .. fed women are in danger of becoming .. iron .. deficient
.. ?

See it all the time. When given iron respond immediately and dramatically
with increased reticulocytosis within days.

Quoted message said:

Fed women are in danger of becoming iron ... deficient .. ?

Yes fed women who can not keep up with their iron loss.

Quoted message said:

That IS .. what you are saying .. isn't it .. ?

The REAL take on it is .. underfed women .. malnourished women .. are
.. iron deficient .. or are in danger of BECOMING iron deficient due to
.. starvation ..

Iron deficient women are deficient of iron by definition whether they are
fed or not fed is not relevent. If their body can not keep up with the iron
loss being fed or not the correction of that deficiency will not take place
unless the cause of the bleeding or iron loss is minimized or a dramatic
increase in iron intake is undertaken.
Iron deficiency is a common finding in children and in women because of
menses.

There are hallmarks to iron deficiency anemia and anybody with any knowledge
of medicine knows what they are.

David Wright said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

PeterB said:

Quoted message said:

Surprise, surprise, if you give enough iron to a rat to duplicate those
levels caused by a rare genetic disorder then they too will show some of
the same disorders.

If one makes an effort to duplicate the low iron levels that makes it the
world's number one health problem, then you too will display the same
mental and physical disorders they too display. And we didn't even have
to kill any rats to know this.

Tom is on a mission. At least he posts study abstracts that relate to
his area of interest, unlike the typical pharma blogger who runs amok
on the newsgroups just to distract and distort. But you're right about
iron -- it's the most pronounced nutrient deficiency in the world.

True in many places, and especially for women. Ironically (no pun
intended), however, too much iron is a health problem for men,
especially in the industrialized countries.

True, probably because a high meat diet is more typical of males.

No, I understood it fine, too well for your propaganda purposes. They
said they tried to duplicate the iron levels found in a rare genetic
disorder which causes severe iron overloading. They fed iron to rats in
huge amounts to get those levels, and then killed them, all of them to
show that iron at the same level as the genetic disorder causes some of
the same reactions as though ahving the genetic disorder. They killed all
the rats and even after all hat we know that similar levels produce
similar results, congratulations.

Sorry to see you in such a desperate state, is it a symptom of low iron?
Genetic disorder derived iron levels and forced externally iron levels
produce similar disorders. That is what the abstract said, it did not say
iron causes all disease because people eat meat. It does suggest that we
not force feed rats iron leveles similar as those produced by the genetic
disorder. I'm happy to see your great concern for the health of rats,
even though they all died for you to have the chance to do it.

No .. actually .. you didn't understand the article ..

<<
comparable in degree with that seen in patients with advanced
hereditary haemochromatosis and dietary iron overload
<<

That means .. the iron overload found in the GENETIC model is the SAME
as the iron overload in the .. dietary .. model ..

So .. the .. takehomemessage .. is ..

Genetic iron overload .. and dietary iron overload .. is .. the SAME
when it comes to iron .. CONTENT / degree of iron loading ..

So according to this study .. genetic iron overload / dietary iron
overload .. lead to the SAME .. iron LOAD ..

So one needs not to be genetically predisposed to have iron levels rise
into DANGEROUS .. levels ..

DANGEROUS .. levels ..

DIETARY means .. were tested .. IN .. this study ..

Now .. explain HOW .. you 'came about' .. the conclusion .. that ..
dietary iron overload is NOT .. what the researchers are .. speaking ..
to ..

Should be very easy for you ..

Cut and paste it ..

You can .. dooooo .. it ..

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

Read to comprehend ..

The researchers DID the study to .. PRODUCE .. a .. mouse model .. OF
... dietary .. iron overload .. and ALSO to .. produce .. a mouse model
of .. genetic iron overload ..

They succeeded ..

They found dietary iron overload .. grade 4 .. produced neoplastic
lesions ..

You say they .. didn't .. produce a mouse model of .. iron overload ..
?

Is that what you are saying .. ?

Come on .. you can say it ..

For the record ..

You say the study did NOT induce a DIETARY iron overload .. ?

Is that .. right . ?

Say it ..

Just repeat the below ..

"the study did NOT speak to DIETARY .. iron overload .. "

For the record ..

I'm keeping a .. 'stupid' .. folder .. just .. for .. you ..
...

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

We can see you are making progress toward real science. If a genetic
disorder causes retention of high levels of iron and rats are force fed
huge amounts of iron to imitate the condition then we are not suprised
that similar results are found. If we remove iron to imitate the low iron
condition that is the world's number one health problem to produce the
mental and physical disorders it causes, we can speculate about some
posters, no?

.....and throw in that parasites\infections are more prevalant in
developing countries which would deplete iron stores.

Developing countries tend to have much larger families ie
multiple pregnancies further reducing iron stores.

Lets not forget alcoholism in developed countries ie they don't
tend to eat much.

On your comment about the amount of iron lost in normal menses;
The amount of iron lost is minimal. On this point it is an
interesting evolutionary tactic being protective of the family.
Up and down iron levels keeping pathogens at bay.
<http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol5no3/weinberg.htm>

As industry keeps looking for better ways to increase iron
absorbtion (added to staple foods) by enhancing the chemistry to
override the body's mechanism of management of iron intake,
likely mrobidities will increase in degree and number.

tc

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>True in many places, and especially for women. Ironically (no pun

intended), however, too much iron is a health problem for men,
especially in the industrialized countries.
<<

So what you are saying is .. "women are bleeding to death .. " ..

Blood loss is a common cause of iron deficiency anemia yes.

Quoted message said:

Is that what you are saying .. ?

You are saying women .. fed women in the Western World / developed
countries .. fed women are in danger of becoming .. iron .. deficient
.. ?

See it all the time. When given iron respond immediately and dramatically
with increased reticulocytosis within days.

Quoted message said:

Fed women are in danger of becoming iron ... deficient .. ?

Yes fed women who can not keep up with their iron loss.

Quoted message said:

That IS .. what you are saying .. isn't it .. ?

The REAL take on it is .. underfed women .. malnourished women .. are
.. iron deficient .. or are in danger of BECOMING iron deficient due to
.. starvation ..

Iron deficient women are deficient of iron by definition whether they are
fed or not fed is not relevent. If their body can not keep up with the iron
loss being fed or not the correction of that deficiency will not take place
unless the cause of the bleeding or iron loss is minimized or a dramatic
increase in iron intake is undertaken.
Iron deficiency is a common finding in children and in women because of
menses.

There are hallmarks to iron deficiency anemia and anybody with any knowledge
of medicine knows what they are.