Invention: Run Flat Tires for Mountain Bikes

"B. Sanders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:q_bua.767242$L1.216599@sccrnsc02...

Quoted message said:

I've invented a run-flat mountain bike tire system, offering several benefits:

- Allows aggressive riding at extremely low pressures
- Limp-home mode at 0 psi
- Prevents rim damage from ground contact
- Locks tire to rim at all pressures
- Simple, reliable, user serviceable/replaceable
- Very lightweight system

Now what? I can't build and test a prototype without specialized,

expensive

Quoted message said:

tire building equipment. I'll need to partner with a tire mfr. for this one. Don't want to
approach tire mfr's without a patent in hand. Patents

are

Quoted message said:

expensive ($10k, or more). Catch-22. A patent agent (legit, recommended) told me that all I need
is "prior art" (diagrams of the design) notarized and date-authenticated. I have 1 year to bring
the product to market

before

Quoted message said:

filing for a patent in the US. Diligence in product development and prior art take precedence over
patent thieving, apparently. (Nice to know, isn't it?)

Does this sound like a product worth developing? I don't know much about the possible market for
such a product. It will be about 150 grams

heavier

Quoted message said:

than normal tires, and about 2x as expensive, so it's not for everybody.

-Barry

I can't think of anybody who's so blighted by punctures that they'd shell out twice the odds to not
cure it properly. You might sell a few to Wally World customers, but I figure those who haven't just
bought a bike on a whim will stick with patches which don't weigh 150g more, cost twice as much and
result in a [censored] handling bike.

As for commuting on glass strewn streets, I find old inner tubes slit and wrapped around the inner
tube to be more than sufficient to stop 90% of punctures.

My two cents.

Andy "Think Prevention?" Chequer

"Andy Chequer" <andy@(youdontwantthisbitinit)thisisasparagus.com> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"B. Sanders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:q_bua.767242$L1.216599@sccrnsc02...

Quoted message said:

I've invented a run-flat mountain bike tire system, offering several benefits:

- Allows aggressive riding at extremely low pressures
- Limp-home mode at 0 psi
- Prevents rim damage from ground contact
- Locks tire to rim at all pressures
- Simple, reliable, user serviceable/replaceable
- Very lightweight system

Now what? I can't build and test a prototype without specialized,

expensive

Quoted message said:

tire building equipment. I'll need to partner with a tire mfr. for this one. Don't want to
approach tire mfr's without a patent in hand. Patents

are

Quoted message said:

expensive ($10k, or more). Catch-22. A patent agent (legit, recommended) told me that all I need
is "prior art" (diagrams of the design)

notarized

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and date-authenticated. I have 1 year to bring the product to market

before

Quoted message said:

filing for a patent in the US. Diligence in product development and

prior

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

art take precedence over patent thieving, apparently. (Nice to know,

isn't

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it?)

Does this sound like a product worth developing? I don't know much

about

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the possible market for such a product. It will be about 150 grams

heavier

Quoted message said:

than normal tires, and about 2x as expensive, so it's not for everybody.

-Barry

I can't think of anybody who's so blighted by punctures that they'd shell out twice the odds to
not cure it properly. You might sell a few to Wally World customers, but I figure those who
haven't just bought a bike on a

whim

Quoted message said:

will stick with patches which don't weigh 150g more, cost twice as much

and

Quoted message said:

result in a [censored] handling bike.

As for commuting on glass strewn streets, I find old inner tubes slit and wrapped around the inner
tube to be more than sufficient to stop 90% of punctures.

My two cents.

Andy "Think Prevention?" Chequer

Or you can go "expensive" and get Mr. Tuffys. In Arizona, another inner tube might not be enough to
stop the slew of cactus needles. I rode with
Mr. Tuffys and Slime-filled tubes, but then I don't like changing or repairing tubes.

--
Bob ctviggen at rcn dot com

"Andy Chequer" <andy@(youdontwantthisbitinit)thisisasparagus.com> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"B. Sanders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:q_bua.767242$L1.216599@sccrnsc02...

Quoted message said:

I've invented a run-flat mountain bike tire system, offering several benefits:

- Allows aggressive riding at extremely low pressures
- Limp-home mode at 0 psi
- Prevents rim damage from ground contact
- Locks tire to rim at all pressures
- Simple, reliable, user serviceable/replaceable
- Very lightweight system

Now what? I can't build and test a prototype without specialized,

expensive

Quoted message said:

tire building equipment. I'll need to partner with a tire mfr. for this one. Don't want to
approach tire mfr's without a patent in hand. Patents

are

Quoted message said:

expensive ($10k, or more). Catch-22. A patent agent (legit, recommended) told me that all I need
is "prior art" (diagrams of the design)

notarized

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and date-authenticated. I have 1 year to bring the product to market

before

Quoted message said:

filing for a patent in the US. Diligence in product development and

prior

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

art take precedence over patent thieving, apparently. (Nice to know,

isn't

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it?)

Does this sound like a product worth developing? I don't know much

about

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the possible market for such a product. It will be about 150 grams

heavier

Quoted message said:

than normal tires, and about 2x as expensive, so it's not for everybody.

-Barry

I can't think of anybody who's so blighted by punctures that they'd shell out twice the odds to
not cure it properly. You might sell a few to Wally World customers, but I figure those who
haven't just bought a bike on a

whim

Quoted message said:

will stick with patches which don't weigh 150g more, cost twice as much

and

Quoted message said:

result in a [censored] handling bike.

Actually, these tires would be marketed to extreme mountain bikers who need reliability and best
possible traction, which requires very low tire pressure. Of course, you can pump 'em up if you want
more pressure. It's just that you can also let out the air for those technical root-infested
nightmare climbs, and still not risk ruining the rims when things get ugly. The limp-home run-flat
capability is just icing on the cake, not the primary purpose of the product.

Quoted message said:

As for commuting on glass strewn streets, I find old inner tubes slit and wrapped around the inner
tube to be more than sufficient to stop 90% of punctures.

That's a different application. The tire system I've invented is for off-road use in extreme
conditions requiring maximum traction, where the trail is punctuated by rim-endangering
wildly-varying terrain (drops, rock fields, etc). There currently is no tire system that I'm aware
of which addresses all of these issues well.

BTW: They are *not* airless tires.

Thanks for the input, Andy.

-Barry

"B. Sanders" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

That's a different application. The tire system I've invented is for off-road use in extreme
conditions requiring maximum traction, where the trail is punctuated by rim-endangering
wildly-varying terrain (drops, rock fields, etc). There currently is no tire system that I'm aware
of which addresses all of these issues well.

BTW: They are *not* airless tires.

Without wanting you to divulge any crucial details, I have trouble visualizing a non airless tire,
that can operate a very low or no airpressre, and still give adequate protection to the rim.

With a tire of any conventional thickness and no air, there is only so much 'meat' between the rock
and the rim.

Hope it works, though...😉

Pete

"Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"B. Sanders" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

That's a different application. The tire system I've invented is for off-road use in extreme
conditions requiring maximum traction, where the trail is punctuated by rim-endangering
wildly-varying terrain (drops,

rock

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fields, etc). There currently is no tire system that I'm aware of which addresses all of these
issues well.

BTW: They are *not* airless tires.

Without wanting you to divulge any crucial details, I have trouble visualizing a non airless tire,
that can operate a very low or no airpressre, and still give adequate protection to the rim.

With a tire of any conventional thickness and no air, there is only so

much

Quoted message said:

'meat' between the rock and the rim.

The patentable portion of my design solves this problem, while retaining all of the advantages of
low-pressure tires. For the sake of handling, you would want *some* air pressure in the tire. The
zero-pressure mode is only for emergencies (and until I test it, I don't even know if it will really
work.) I'm also thinking of applications for my invention in 4x4 off-road vehicle competition tires,
which have similar need for low-pressure running and limp-home zero-pressure mode.

Quoted message said:

Hope it works, though...😉

Well, until I build a few prototypes, it's just a pipe dream. I do think it would work, and very
well. Not sure what to do next.

-Barry

Quoted message said:

<snip> I have trouble visualizing a non airless tire, that can operate a very low or no
airpressre, and still give adequate protection to the rim.

That's why HE invented it, and not you, silly!

As for the idea, it's great we still have people in America inventing stuff! On the flip side, I
doubt I would have a use for a tire like this. As it is, I run my regular tubed tire/rim setup with
Panaracer Fire XC (the cheap kind) at about 25-30 psi. with no problems. Plenty of grip, and no
pinch flats in the 4 months I've had them. I've only ever damaged a rim from a pinch flat once... it
was from cruising down a fast rocky fire road at about 35 mph. Luckily I was running Sun Mammoth
rims, the impact would have taco'ed a lesser rim, I suspect.

-John Morgan

"John Morgan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3vmua.8539$fm4.7286@fed1read06...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<snip> I have trouble visualizing a non airless tire, that can operate a very low or no
airpressre, and still give adequate protection to the rim.

That's why HE invented it, and not you, silly!

As for the idea, it's great we still have people in America inventing

stuff!

Thanks! Yeah, there are a lot of inventive people in the US. We have a lot of dreamers, I guess.
(That would be me.)

Quoted message said:

On the flip side, I doubt I would have a use for a tire like this. As it is, I run my regular
tubed tire/rim setup with Panaracer Fire XC (the

cheap

Quoted message said:

kind) at about 25-30 psi. with no problems. Plenty of grip, and no pinch flats in the 4 months
I've had them. I've only ever damaged a rim from a pinch flat once... it was from cruising down a
fast rocky fire road at

about

Quoted message said:

35 mph. Luckily I was running Sun Mammoth rims, the impact would have taco'ed a lesser rim, I
suspect.

John, that's exactly the situation that my invention is designed for: Fast, rocky descents on
low-pressure tires, where rim damage and pinch flats are likely. So, you *would* have a use for such
a tire. Next time you might not be so lucky.

-Barry

John Morgan <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3vmua.8539$fm4.7286@fed1read06...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<snip> I have trouble visualizing a non airless tire, that can operate a very low or no
airpressre, and still give adequate protection to the rim.

That's why HE invented it, and not you, silly!

As for the idea, it's great we still have people in America inventing

stuff!

Quoted message said:

On the flip side, I doubt I would have a use for a tire like this. As it is, I run my regular
tubed tire/rim setup with Panaracer Fire XC (the

cheap

Quoted message said:

kind) at about 25-30 psi. with no problems. Plenty of grip, and no pinch flats in the 4 months
I've had them. I've only ever damaged a rim from a pinch flat once... it was from cruising down a
fast rocky fire road at

about

Quoted message said:

35 mph. Luckily I was running Sun Mammoth rims, the impact would have taco'ed a lesser rim, I
suspect.

Ahem - Nokian Gazzaloddi 2.6, Mavic D521 rim, 12 PSI, standard 1.75 - 2.25 (or summink) tube, 20 +
MPH in places, down 2 or 3 miles of _boulder_ strewn trail, off ledges, landing in rock gardens,
total lack of smoothness (downright clumsiness actually) on the part of the rider, felt much fear,
but no pinch flats, no rim damage. Just thought I'd trot that one out.....again........

Shaun aRe - gotta get me a good portable pressure gauge, heheheheheh.........

"Shaun Rimmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

John Morgan <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3vmua.8539$fm4.7286@fed1read06...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<snip> I have trouble visualizing a non airless tire, that can operate a very low or no
airpressre, and still give adequate protection to the rim.

That's why HE invented it, and not you, silly!

As for the idea, it's great we still have people in America inventing

stuff!

Quoted message said:

On the flip side, I doubt I would have a use for a tire like this. As

it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is, I run my regular tubed tire/rim setup with Panaracer Fire XC (the

cheap

Quoted message said:

kind) at about 25-30 psi. with no problems. Plenty of grip, and no

pinch

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

flats in the 4 months I've had them. I've only ever damaged a rim from

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pinch flat once... it was from cruising down a fast rocky fire road at

about

Quoted message said:

35 mph. Luckily I was running Sun Mammoth rims, the impact would have taco'ed a lesser rim, I
suspect.

Ahem - Nokian Gazzaloddi 2.6, Mavic D521 rim, 12 PSI, standard 1.75 - 2.25 (or summink) tube, 20 +
MPH in places, down 2 or 3 miles of _boulder_

strewn

Quoted message said:

trail, off ledges, landing in rock gardens, total lack of smoothness (downright clumsiness
actually) on the part of the rider, felt much fear, but no pinch flats, no rim damage. Just
thought I'd trot that one out.....again........

Shaun, thanks for the real-world data. If you can really ride like that on12 psi, and no pinch
flats, then the product I've invented might not solve as many problems as I had imagined. That's
pretty amazing, really, even with those big meats.

I appreciate your input on this.

-Barry

i think you will need to have a tech document with detailed explanation and drawings. you can then
consult with a pattern lawyer who is specialized in the area of engineering who will help you for
revisions.

afterwards, you can then approach either indistrial design firms or investors/capitalist etc with
non disclosure agreement signed before hand. raise the basic fund for a pattern. as the process
starts, you can then talk to manufacture and big companies.

w < appliced a pattern before with my teamworkers (the thing didn't go through but i still think
it's very cool and helpful for people)

Quoted message said:

Well, until I build a few prototypes, it's just a pipe dream. I do think it would work, and very
well. Not sure what to do next.

-Barry

"B. Sanders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:q_bua.767242$L1.216599@sccrnsc02...

Quoted message said:

I've invented a run-flat mountain bike tire system, offering several benefits:

- Allows aggressive riding at extremely low pressures
- Limp-home mode at 0 psi
- Prevents rim damage from ground contact
- Locks tire to rim at all pressures
- Simple, reliable, user serviceable/replaceable
- Very lightweight system

Now what? I can't build and test a prototype without specialized, expensive tire building
equipment. I'll need to partner with a tire mfr. for this one. Don't want to approach tire mfr's
without a patent in hand. Patents are expensive ($10k, or more). Catch-22. A patent agent (legit,
recommended) told me that all I need is "prior art" (diagrams of the design) notarized and
date-authenticated. I have 1 year to bring the product to market before filing for a patent in the
US. Diligence in product development and prior art take precedence over patent thieving,
apparently. (Nice to know, isn't it?)

Does this sound like a product worth developing? I don't know much about the possible market for
such a product. It will be about 150 grams heavier than normal tires, and about 2x as expensive,
so it's not for everybody.

-Barry

For me personally, I wouldn't be interested because I just assume get stiffer walled, thicker cased
tire if I had flat problems. I would rather put that extra weight in a heavy duty, well handling
tire. Just my $.005
--
Slacker

"w e i" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

i think you will need to have a tech document with detailed explanation and drawings. you can then
consult with a pattern lawyer who is specialized in the area of engineering who will help you for
revisions.

afterwards, you can then approach either indistrial design firms or investors/capitalist etc with
non disclosure agreement signed before hand. raise the basic fund for a pattern. as the process
starts, you can then talk to manufacture and big companies.

w < appliced a pattern before with my teamworkers (the thing didn't go through but i still think
it's very cool and helpful for people)

Thanks wei. Much appreciated. NDA's are pretty standard in my business. I'm thinking the best thing
to do first would be some informal market research.

-Barry

"Shaun Rimmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

John Morgan <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3vmua.8539$fm4.7286@fed1read06...

Quoted message said:

Ahem - Nokian Gazzaloddi 2.6, Mavic D521 rim, 12 PSI, standard 1.75 - 2.25 (or summink) tube, 20 +
MPH in places, down 2 or 3 miles of _boulder_

strewn

Quoted message said:

trail, off ledges, landing in rock gardens, total lack of smoothness (downright clumsiness
actually) on the part of the rider, felt much fear, but no pinch flats, no rim damage. Just
thought I'd trot that one out.....again........

"Shaun, thanks for the real-world data. If you can really ride like that on12 psi,"

Yup - see, these tyres roll very slowly (heh...), so, I keep 'em up at 50 - 60 + psi for
road/trail approach etc, then, if the weather is bad and the trail rough, I drop the pressure. I
just keep letting it out and squeezing the tyre (my pump's gauge is useless below 25 psi, and I'm
aiming for around
18). Several (many) times, I've arrived back home and gone to a compressor or some such to fill them
back up, and find they are usually down to around 14 psi. 3 or 4 times, down to 11-12 psi. I've
heard the loud 'ding' of the tyre bottoming on the rim several times on rocky rides,
heheheheh........

"> and no pinch flats, then the product I've invented might not solve as many problems as I had
imagined. That's pretty amazing, really, even with those big meats."

Well, there's a couple of things to take into consideration here:

19) Although the bike weighs about 36 lb, I weigh only about 155lb, maybe 165-170 with heavy pack of
tools, extra layers and water.

20) These tyres are designed specifically with DH brutes in mind, and have the stiffest sidewalls
for a bike tyre I've seen outside of motorcross, but they weigh a heck of a lot (can't remember
for sure, but around 2 lbs at least), and cost £30 - 40 each.

"I appreciate your input on this."

No worries, but don't be disheartened out of turn - I'm just one guy, with one personal set of
variables - you need much more than that to base your judgement on.

Later Barry,

Shaun aRe