Introducing the Net Atkins Count!

Aside from their patenting, effectively, overall glycemic load, at
least they admit that in the real world some of their net carb counts
were way too low.

But it's amusing (or disturbing) that they patented "eat it and see
what happens." Sigh.

DJ Delorie said:

Aside from their patenting, effectively, overall glycemic load, at
least they admit that in the real world some of their net carb counts
were way too low.

But it's amusing (or disturbing) that they patented "eat it and see
what happens." Sigh.

From the atkins.com article linked in Roger's original post: "But now,
Atkins has developed a patent-pending clinical method that actually measures
the glycemic impact of specific products."

They haven't patented the "clinical method;" they have merely applied for a
patent on it. At any rate, you certainly shouldn't conclude that they have
applied for a patent on the "eat it and see" approach without at least
looking at what they've claimed in their application. A quick search of the
USPTO database didn't turn up any published pending applications assigned to
the Atkins Nutritionals company (or any issued patents, for that matter), so
any application that they are referring to is still in the very earliest
stages. They are a long way from a patent on any kind of clinical method.

--
carla
http://geekofalltrades.typepad.com/geek

DJ Delorie wrote:
:: Aside from their patenting, effectively, overall glycemic load, at
:: least they admit that in the real world some of their net carb counts
:: were way too low.

Seems like they are lowing most of the ones that don't agree with the
subtraction method.

::
:: But it's amusing (or disturbing) that they patented "eat it and see
:: what happens." Sigh.

You find it amusing (or disturbing) that they will be basing the net carb
counts on actual clincal data
obtained from observing BG responses in real people? They are not
suggesting that people "eat it and see what happens" even though, truth be
told, that's what people should do with these SA products. If you eat one
of them it is a very good idea to track your BG response over the next
several hours to see what happens.

I think it's good thing that they are not just sitting still and doing
nothing.

DJ Delorie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Aside from their patenting, effectively, overall glycemic load, at
least they admit that in the real world some of their net carb counts
were way too low.

But it's amusing (or disturbing) that they patented "eat it and see
what happens." Sigh.

Yes, and some were too high, but some were too low, so why focus on
the negative, as if some deliberate fraud were involved? This looks
like a very important step to me and I think it reflects favorably on
Atkins Nutritionals. Now we will have the average actual blood
glucose impact for all the Atkins products It would be great to see
this become a requirement for all foods that have the Atkins
endorsement, which it likely will. It would be even better if all
manufacturers of LC products followed this testing procedure.

Roger,

What would be very interesting would be to apply this new system to
non-Atkins foods, like, say pizza and pasta.

I'd be willing to bet that they test out lower too.

Most people with diabetes find that pasta and pizza will give them
surprisingly low numbers at one and two hours of blood testing. What they
don't realize, too often, is that if they keep testing for the next 8 hours
they will see those carbs hitting the blood stream and they will also affect
their morning fasting blood sugar levels.

But if Atkins just tests at 1 hour, for example, or even two with some
foods, they may not see the spike.

This looks like a way to try to get around the forthcoming FDA low carb
labeling regulations.

--
Jenny - Low Carbing for 5 years. Below goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes,
hba1c 5.7 .
Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!

Jenny's new site: What they Don't Tell You About Diabetes
http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/

Jenny's Low Carb Diet Facts & Figures
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/

Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A breaking news story in The Wall Street Journal on October 6, 2004,

reports

Quoted message said:

on the unique scientific method Atkins has developed to substantiate the

low

Quoted message said:

glycemic impact of Atkins products and confirm the accuracy of Atkins net
carb labeling claims. Net carbs are those carbohydrates that have a
significant impact on blood-sugar levels, and limiting net carbs is the

most

Quoted message said:

critical factor for people who wish to successfully follow the Atkins
Nutritional ApproachT.

http://atkins.com/Archive/2004/10/5-366283.html

Jenny wrote:
:: Roger,
::
:: What would be very interesting would be to apply this new system to
:: non-Atkins foods, like, say pizza and pasta.
::
:: I'd be willing to bet that they test out lower too.
::
:: Most people with diabetes find that pasta and pizza will give them
:: surprisingly low numbers at one and two hours of blood testing. What
:: they don't realize, too often, is that if they keep testing for the
:: next 8 hours they will see those carbs hitting the blood stream and
:: they will also affect their morning fasting blood sugar levels.

That's a good point, Jenny.

::
:: But if Atkins just tests at 1 hour, for example, or even two with
:: some foods, they may not see the spike.
::

I wonder if the spike is the same spike one would have gotten on higher GI
foods, or if would would be a delayed, but muted spike.

:: This looks like a way to try to get around the forthcoming FDA low
:: carb labeling regulations.

Interesting.

::
:: --
:: Jenny - Low Carbing for 5 years. Below goal for weight. Type 2
:: diabetes, hba1c 5.7 .
:: Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!
::
:: Jenny's new site: What they Don't Tell You About Diabetes
:: http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/
::
:: Jenny's Low Carb Diet Facts & Figures
:: http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/
::
:: Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
:: Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm
::
::
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...
::: A breaking news story in The Wall Street Journal on October 6,
::: 2004, reports on the unique scientific method Atkins has developed
::: to substantiate the low glycemic impact of Atkins products and
::: confirm the accuracy of Atkins net carb labeling claims. Net carbs
::: are those carbohydrates that have a significant impact on
::: blood-sugar levels, and limiting net carbs is the most critical
::: factor for people who wish to successfully follow the Atkins
::: Nutritional ApproachT.
:::
::: http://atkins.com/Archive/2004/10/5-366283.html

Roger Zoul said:

Seems like they are lowing most of the ones that don't agree with the
subtraction method.

Right, but if ALL the changes were to lower numbers, I'd be
suspicious.

Quoted message said:

:: But it's amusing (or disturbing) that they patented "eat it and see
:: what happens." Sigh.

You find it amusing (or disturbing) that they will be basing the net
carb counts on actual clincal data obtained from observing BG
responses in real people?

No, amusing that they thought it was worth patenting, and disturbing
that the USPTO will probably approve it.

Quoted message said:

They are not suggesting that people "eat it and see what happens"
even though,

Right, *They* had sample people eat it and *they* saw.

Quoted message said:

truth be told, that's what people should do with these SA products.

Agreed.

Roger,

The problem with comparing low and high glycemic foods is that they don't
perform the same way in different people's bodies.

Some people have a defective first phase insulin response but an adequate
second phase insulin response. Some people have a normal first phase
response but defective second phase response. Some have mediocre but not
missing responses at both phases. (These phases are explained in detail at
http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/deterioration.htm )

Depending on the mix of how your phases are working, you will see completely
different responses to a carb-rich but "low glycemic" food. If your first is
missing, slowing down the carbs until the second phase response kicks in at
an hour may keep blood sugar normal. If your second phase is weak, then it
won't make much difference how fast the carbs hit, you'll see the same area
under the curve (time vs spike height)

So two people eating the same high carb dose of "low glycemic" foods may see
entirely different blood sugar readings over time.

And, for further thought, the blood sugar readings tell us NOTHING about the
insulin levels in people who are not terminally insulin resistant. Their
blood sugars may stay normal because their pancreases are pumping out a
boatload of insulin. That insulin may be enough to stall weight loss or
cause overgrowth on the vascular endothelium.

-- Jenny - Low Carbing for 5 years. Below goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes,
hba1c 5.7 .
Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!

Jenny's new site: What they Don't Tell You About Diabetes
http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/

Jenny's Low Carb Diet Facts & Figures
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/

Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jenny wrote:
:: Roger,
::
:: What would be very interesting would be to apply this new system to
:: non-Atkins foods, like, say pizza and pasta.
::
:: I'd be willing to bet that they test out lower too.
::
:: Most people with diabetes find that pasta and pizza will give them
:: surprisingly low numbers at one and two hours of blood testing. What
:: they don't realize, too often, is that if they keep testing for the
:: next 8 hours they will see those carbs hitting the blood stream and
:: they will also affect their morning fasting blood sugar levels.

That's a good point, Jenny.

::
:: But if Atkins just tests at 1 hour, for example, or even two with
:: some foods, they may not see the spike.
::

I wonder if the spike is the same spike one would have gotten on higher GI
foods, or if would would be a delayed, but muted spike.

:: This looks like a way to try to get around the forthcoming FDA low
:: carb labeling regulations.

Interesting.

::
:: --
:: Jenny - Low Carbing for 5 years. Below goal for weight. Type 2
:: diabetes, hba1c 5.7 .
:: Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!
::
:: Jenny's new site: What they Don't Tell You About Diabetes
:: http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/
::
:: Jenny's Low Carb Diet Facts & Figures
:: http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/
::
:: Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
:: Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm
::
::
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...
::: A breaking news story in The Wall Street Journal on October 6,
::: 2004, reports on the unique scientific method Atkins has developed
::: to substantiate the low glycemic impact of Atkins products and
::: confirm the accuracy of Atkins net carb labeling claims. Net carbs
::: are those carbohydrates that have a significant impact on
::: blood-sugar levels, and limiting net carbs is the most critical
::: factor for people who wish to successfully follow the Atkins
::: Nutritional ApproachT.
:::
::: http://atkins.com/Archive/2004/10/5-366283.html

Jenny wrote:
|| Roger,
||
|| The problem with comparing low and high glycemic foods is that they
|| don't perform the same way in different people's bodies.
||
|| Some people have a defective first phase insulin response but an
|| adequate second phase insulin response. Some people have a normal
|| first phase response but defective second phase response. Some have
|| mediocre but not missing responses at both phases. (These phases are
|| explained in detail at
|| http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/deterioration.htm )
||
|| Depending on the mix of how your phases are working, you will see
|| completely different responses to a carb-rich but "low glycemic"
|| food. If your first is missing, slowing down the carbs until the
|| second phase response kicks in at an hour may keep blood sugar
|| normal. If your second phase is weak, then it won't make much
|| difference how fast the carbs hit, you'll see the same area under
|| the curve (time vs spike height)
||
|| So two people eating the same high carb dose of "low glycemic" foods
|| may see entirely different blood sugar readings over time.
||
|| And, for further thought, the blood sugar readings tell us NOTHING
|| about the insulin levels in people who are not terminally insulin
|| resistant. Their blood sugars may stay normal because their
|| pancreases are pumping out a boatload of insulin. That insulin may
|| be enough to stall weight loss or cause overgrowth on the vascular
|| endothelium.

Thanks, Jenny. I'll read up on the phase responses.

||
||
|| -- Jenny - Low Carbing for 5 years. Below goal for weight. Type 2
|| diabetes, hba1c 5.7 .
|| Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!
||
|| Jenny's new site: What they Don't Tell You About Diabetes
|| http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/
||
|| Jenny's Low Carb Diet Facts & Figures
|| http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/
||
|| Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
|| Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm
||
||
|| "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
|| news:[email hidden]...
||| Jenny wrote:
||||| Roger,
|||||
||||| What would be very interesting would be to apply this new system
||||| to non-Atkins foods, like, say pizza and pasta.
|||||
||||| I'd be willing to bet that they test out lower too.
|||||
||||| Most people with diabetes find that pasta and pizza will give them
||||| surprisingly low numbers at one and two hours of blood testing.
||||| What they don't realize, too often, is that if they keep testing
||||| for the next 8 hours they will see those carbs hitting the blood
||||| stream and they will also affect their morning fasting blood
||||| sugar levels.
|||
||| That's a good point, Jenny.
|||
|||||
||||| But if Atkins just tests at 1 hour, for example, or even two with
||||| some foods, they may not see the spike.
|||||
|||
||| I wonder if the spike is the same spike one would have gotten on
||| higher GI foods, or if would would be a delayed, but muted spike.
|||
||||| This looks like a way to try to get around the forthcoming FDA low
||||| carb labeling regulations.
|||
||| Interesting.
|||
|||||
||||| --
||||| Jenny - Low Carbing for 5 years. Below goal for weight. Type 2
||||| diabetes, hba1c 5.7 .
||||| Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!
|||||
||||| Jenny's new site: What they Don't Tell You About Diabetes
||||| http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/
|||||
||||| Jenny's Low Carb Diet Facts & Figures
||||| http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/
|||||
||||| Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
||||| Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm
|||||
|||||
||||| "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
||||| news:[email hidden]...
|||||| A breaking news story in The Wall Street Journal on October 6,
|||||| 2004, reports on the unique scientific method Atkins has
|||||| developed
|||||| to substantiate the low glycemic impact of Atkins products and
|||||| confirm the accuracy of Atkins net carb labeling claims. Net
|||||| carbs are those carbohydrates that have a significant impact on
|||||| blood-sugar levels, and limiting net carbs is the most critical
|||||| factor for people who wish to successfully follow the Atkins
|||||| Nutritional ApproachT.
||||||
|||||| http://atkins.com/Archive/2004/10/5-366283.html

"Jenny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Roger,

The problem with comparing low and high glycemic foods is that they don't
perform the same way in different people's bodies.

Some people have a defective first phase insulin response but an adequate
second phase insulin response. Some people have a normal first phase
response but defective second phase response. Some have mediocre but not
missing responses at both phases. (These phases are explained in detail at
http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/deterioration.htm )

Depending on the mix of how your phases are working, you will see completely
different responses to a carb-rich but "low glycemic" food. If your first is
missing, slowing down the carbs until the second phase response kicks in at
an hour may keep blood sugar normal. If your second phase is weak, then it
won't make much difference how fast the carbs hit, you'll see the same area
under the curve (time vs spike height)

So two people eating the same high carb dose of "low glycemic" foods may see
entirely different blood sugar readings over time.

And, for further thought, the blood sugar readings tell us NOTHING about the
insulin levels in people who are not terminally insulin resistant. Their
blood sugars may stay normal because their pancreases are pumping out a
boatload of insulin. That insulin may be enough to stall weight loss or
cause overgrowth on the vascular endothelium.

-- Jenny - Low Carbing for 5 years. Below goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes,
hba1c 5.7 .
Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!

Jenny's new site: What they Don't Tell You About Diabetes
http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/

Jenny's Low Carb Diet Facts & Figures
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/

Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jenny wrote:
:: Roger,
::
:: What would be very interesting would be to apply this new system to
:: non-Atkins foods, like, say pizza and pasta.
::
:: I'd be willing to bet that they test out lower too.
::
:: Most people with diabetes find that pasta and pizza will give them
:: surprisingly low numbers at one and two hours of blood testing. What
:: they don't realize, too often, is that if they keep testing for the
:: next 8 hours they will see those carbs hitting the blood stream and
:: they will also affect their morning fasting blood sugar levels.

That's a good point, Jenny.

::
:: But if Atkins just tests at 1 hour, for example, or even two with
:: some foods, they may not see the spike.
::

I wonder if the spike is the same spike one would have gotten on higher GI
foods, or if would would be a delayed, but muted spike.

:: This looks like a way to try to get around the forthcoming FDA low
:: carb labeling regulations.

Interesting.

::
:: --
:: Jenny - Low Carbing for 5 years. Below goal for weight. Type 2
:: diabetes, hba1c 5.7 .
:: Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!
::
:: Jenny's new site: What they Don't Tell You About Diabetes
:: http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/
::
:: Jenny's Low Carb Diet Facts & Figures
:: http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/
::
:: Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
:: Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm
::
::
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...
::: A breaking news story in The Wall Street Journal on October 6,
::: 2004, reports on the unique scientific method Atkins has developed
::: to substantiate the low glycemic impact of Atkins products and
::: confirm the accuracy of Atkins net carb labeling claims. Net carbs
::: are those carbohydrates that have a significant impact on
::: blood-sugar levels, and limiting net carbs is the most critical
::: factor for people who wish to successfully follow the Atkins
::: Nutritional ApproachT.
:::
::: http://atkins.com/Archive/2004/10/5-366283.html

I figured this was coming. Now that Atkins Nutritional is going to
measure the actual blood glucose response in a clinical procedure to
validate the net carb count impact of produicts on blood glucose,
according to Jenny it isn't good enough. Why am I not surprised?

"Chet Hayes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I figured this was coming. Now that Atkins Nutritional is going to
measure the actual blood glucose response in a clinical procedure to
validate the net carb count impact of produicts on blood glucose,
according to Jenny it isn't good enough. Why am I not surprised?

Chet, one of the most surprising things about becoming a diabetic is how
differently the disease affects different people - Jenny gave you a possible
explaination of why that should be. One of the most used acronyms in
diabetes groups is YMMV - your mileage may vary - and it sure does!

It would certainly be interesting if the Atkins group printed affect on bg -
but would still give diabetics only the vaguest idea of whether that
particular effect would apply to them. They would still have to try it out
for themselves, and measure the effect on their own bg.

Nicky.

--
HbA1c 10.5/6.4/<6 Weight 95/82/72
1g Metformin, 75ug Thyroxine
T2 DX 05/2004

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

Most people with diabetes find that pasta and pizza will give them
surprisingly low numbers at one and two hours of blood testing. What they
don't realize, too often, is that if they keep testing for the next 8 hours
they will see those carbs hitting the blood stream and they will also affect
their morning fasting blood sugar levels.

Jenny, might I ask where this information comes from?

[email hidden] (Armand) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Most people with diabetes find that pasta and pizza will give them
surprisingly low numbers at one and two hours of blood testing. What
they don't realize, too often, is that if they keep testing for the
next 8 hours they will see those carbs hitting the blood stream and
they will also affect their morning fasting blood sugar levels.

Jenny, might I ask where this information comes from?

My guess is the high levels of grease and fats in pizza and pasta sauces.
Fatty foods will delay BG increases. Not that I have anything against fatty
foods, but I try to not mix higher Carb foods with fatty foods as much as
possible. They learned me that in Diabetic school...just before they
brought out the rubber food to show portion size. You know when they show
you the cookie dough collecting in your arteries (glucose+fat) on the
walls.

--
Starchless in Manitoba.

"Nicky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Chet Hayes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I figured this was coming. Now that Atkins Nutritional is going to
measure the actual blood glucose response in a clinical procedure to
validate the net carb count impact of produicts on blood glucose,
according to Jenny it isn't good enough. Why am I not surprised?

Chet, one of the most surprising things about becoming a diabetic is how
differently the disease affects different people - Jenny gave you a possible
explaination of why that should be. One of the most used acronyms in
diabetes groups is YMMV - your mileage may vary - and it sure does!

It would certainly be interesting if the Atkins group printed affect on bg -
but would still give diabetics only the vaguest idea of whether that
particular effect would apply to them. They would still have to try it out
for themselves, and measure the effect on their own bg.

Nicky.

Yes, but Atkins and similar products are not being marketed as food
for people with diabetes. They are being marketed for people
following LC plans and I think for normal people, the new Atkins
validation is a reasonable indicator and valuable. Don't diabetics
have to monitor their blood sugar levels and figure out how various
foods affect them anyway?

"Chet Hayes" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Yes, but Atkins and similar products are not being marketed as food
for people with diabetes. They are being marketed for people
following LC plans and I think for normal people, the new Atkins
validation is a reasonable indicator and valuable. Don't diabetics
have to monitor their blood sugar levels and figure out how various
foods affect them anyway?

Yes, and you're right. These lc foods are supposed to be manufactured to a
standard based on an approximately normal range of glucose tolerance, not
into the diabetic range however. To expect them to meet that highly variable
standard would be too much, IMO. Many of these foods may in fact be useful
to diabetics, but they'll need to do their own testing. The rest of us will
need to be wary, because it seems that even "normal" functioning people vary
a lot in how they respond to various types of carby foods.

Personally I find these products very useful, and I use them occasionally in
moderation. When I've found things that trigger overeating and cravings, as
a few of them do, I simply don't purchase them again. Pretty simple, really.

HG

I've had a five hour BG test before. Fast from midnight the night before -
then drink what seemed like a 20 0z bottle of orange soda (minus the
carbonated watrer - just syrup). They tested my bg every 30 minutes from
before I drank the stuff till five hours were up. At about 2.5 - 3 hours it
went up to about 135 (borderline high) and then within 30 minutes to an hour
(don't remeber exactly - been a while) the bg dropped to 44 and I felt
dizzy, nauseous, and like I was going to pass out. By five hours it had
leveled out. Pizaa and such may do the same thing - so your one and two
hour tests may be fine. BG can vary greatly - mine did between 3 and 5
hours. I know now that if I go longer than 3 hours with no food I start
feeling the effects - but since I started lc - the problem is almost
eliminated - every once and a while I feel the effect - and it is usually
when I've eaten more carbs than normal - not that I am bad. I have to
spread whatever carbs I eat evenly throughout the day or I can feel the
effects of low bg and when I do - if I test - my bg is between 60-75. I
test just when I start to feel the effects so I know when I feel that way my
bg is going below the normal range and I need some protein if possible - if
not a piece of fresh fruit - if neither of those are around - something with
sugar ( or horrible me that would eat sugar) but not alot. Thank God for
lc - my problems of low bg are now few and far between.
Diane
"Armand" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

Most people with diabetes find that pasta and pizza will give them
surprisingly low numbers at one and two hours of blood testing. What they
don't realize, too often, is that if they keep testing for the next 8
hours
they will see those carbs hitting the blood stream and they will also
affect
their morning fasting blood sugar levels.

Jenny, might I ask where this information comes from?

Hannah Gruen wrote:
:: "Chet Hayes" <[email hidden]> wrote
::
::: Yes, but Atkins and similar products are not being marketed as food
::: for people with diabetes. They are being marketed for people
::: following LC plans and I think for normal people, the new Atkins
::: validation is a reasonable indicator and valuable. Don't diabetics
::: have to monitor their blood sugar levels and figure out how various
::: foods affect them anyway?
::
:: Yes, and you're right. These lc foods are supposed to be
:: manufactured to a standard based on an approximately normal range of
:: glucose tolerance, not into the diabetic range however. To expect
:: them to meet that highly variable standard would be too much, IMO.
:: Many of these foods may in fact be useful to diabetics, but they'll
:: need to do their own testing. The rest of us will need to be wary,
:: because it seems that even "normal" functioning people vary a lot in
:: how they respond to various types of carby foods.
::
:: Personally I find these products very useful, and I use them
:: occasionally in moderation. When I've found things that trigger
:: overeating and cravings, as a few of them do, I simply don't
:: purchase them again. Pretty simple, really.

It's about personal accountablity and responsibility. It seems a rather
unaccepted concept these days....it seems as if on whole most of us want
someone else to be responsible for our actions.

Just remember that a lot of the "normal" people actually have impaired
glucose tolerance. That means their doctors tell them they are normal, but
they aren't. Recent research shows that even mild levels of impaired
glucose tolerance correlate with a much higher likelihood of heart disease.

Unfortunately, most doctors in the US do not look at post-meal numbers so
you may be told your are "normal" because your fasting blood sugar is okay,
but you may still be experiencing post-meal blood sugar spikes that damage
your body and increase your likelihood of diabetes.

Another issue is that even if you have normal blood sugars, the high insulin
levels it takes to keep blood sugars normal may control your blood sugar to
normal levels, but damage your blood vessels and possibly promote tumor
formation.

So blithely assuming that you don't have blood sugar issues especially if
you have difficulty losing
weight on any but a low carb diet is a mistake.

http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/risk.htm discusses this further.

-- Jenny - Low Carbing for 5 years. Below goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes,
hba1c 5.7 .
Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!

Jenny's new site: What they Don't Tell You About Diabetes
http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/

Jenny's Low Carb Diet Facts & Figures
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/

Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm

"Hannah Gruen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Chet Hayes" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Yes, but Atkins and similar products are not being marketed as food
for people with diabetes. They are being marketed for people
following LC plans and I think for normal people, the new Atkins
validation is a reasonable indicator and valuable. Don't diabetics
have to monitor their blood sugar levels and figure out how various
foods affect them anyway?

Yes, and you're right. These lc foods are supposed to be manufactured to a
standard based on an approximately normal range of glucose tolerance, not
into the diabetic range however. To expect them to meet that highly

variable

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standard would be too much, IMO. Many of these foods may in fact be useful
to diabetics, but they'll need to do their own testing. The rest of us

will

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need to be wary, because it seems that even "normal" functioning people

vary

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a lot in how they respond to various types of carby foods.

Personally I find these products very useful, and I use them occasionally

in

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moderation. When I've found things that trigger overeating and cravings,

as

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a few of them do, I simply don't purchase them again. Pretty simple,

really.

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HG

Diane,

I hope your doctor told you that the pattern of blood sugar response you
experienced makes it very likely that you can develop diabetes as you get
older. It's hypoglycemia and it typically appears in the 20s and 30s and
seems to "go away" as people get to their 40s. Unfortunately, the next step
after it "goes away" is that you reach the very early stages (rarely
diagnosed) or type 2 diabetes.

Keeping your carbs down for life even after you achieve your weight goal is
probably the best thing you can do to deal with this. But it is not yet
known whether this will prevent the underlying condition from progressing.
I'm hoping that it does, but there is no decent research data to draw
conclusions from.

What is important, though, is that once you've gotten over your initial
enthusiasm over low carbing, five or six years from now, you need to
carefully monitor your blood sugar and not go back to the 300 gram a day
carb-load, ever!

--
Jenny - Low Carbing for 5 years. Below goal for weight. Type 2 diabetes,
hba1c 5.7 .
Cut the carbs to respond to my email address!

Jenny's new site: What they Don't Tell You About Diabetes
http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/

Jenny's Low Carb Diet Facts & Figures
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/

Looking for help controlling your blood sugar?
Visit http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Newly%20Diagnosed.htm

"Diane Ball" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

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I've had a five hour BG test before. Fast from midnight the night

before -

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then drink what seemed like a 20 0z bottle of orange soda (minus the
carbonated watrer - just syrup). They tested my bg every 30 minutes from
before I drank the stuff till five hours were up. At about 2.5 - 3 hours

it

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went up to about 135 (borderline high) and then within 30 minutes to an

hour

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(don't remeber exactly - been a while) the bg dropped to 44 and I felt
dizzy, nauseous, and like I was going to pass out. By five hours it had
leveled out. Pizaa and such may do the same thing - so your one and two
hour tests may be fine. BG can vary greatly - mine did between 3 and 5
hours. I know now that if I go longer than 3 hours with no food I start
feeling the effects - but since I started lc - the problem is almost
eliminated - every once and a while I feel the effect - and it is usually
when I've eaten more carbs than normal - not that I am bad. I have to
spread whatever carbs I eat evenly throughout the day or I can feel the
effects of low bg and when I do - if I test - my bg is between 60-75. I
test just when I start to feel the effects so I know when I feel that way

my

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bg is going below the normal range and I need some protein if possible -

if

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not a piece of fresh fruit - if neither of those are around - something

with

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sugar ( or horrible me that would eat sugar) but not alot. Thank God for
lc - my problems of low bg are now few and far between.
Diane
"Armand" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

Most people with diabetes find that pasta and pizza will give them
surprisingly low numbers at one and two hours of blood testing. What

they

Quoted message said:

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don't realize, too often, is that if they keep testing for the next 8
hours
they will see those carbs hitting the blood stream and they will also
affect
their morning fasting blood sugar levels.

Jenny, might I ask where this information comes from?