interval prediction calculator?

Ronald H. Nicholson Jr. said:

There seem to be several race prediction formula and
calculators on the web, which relate pace at one distance
with pace at another.

Are there any equivalent formula or calculators for
predicting interval training pace for a similar workout
"effort", given differing distances, reps, rest times,
etc. e.g. if I want to double the distance of each rep, or
do twice as many reps at the same distance, or halve the
rest time between reps, how much should I adjust my pace
to get a similar workout level (e.g a "hard" day, or a
"medium" day).

Here's a caculator that computes paces for different types
of intervals:

panix.comvdot.htmlOpen ↗

Some suggestions about intervals: (*) intervals are *always*
a "hard" day. (*) the aim of intervals is to train a certain
physiological system. The aim is *not* to run the reps as
fast as is physically possible (though in most cases, the
sessions will be pretty hard) (*) distance of reps and time
between reps again depends on the physiological system
you're trying to train. Use long rests and short reps for
anaerobic training. Use long reps for VO2 max training with
short rests (3-5min 1:1 or
2:1 work/rest) and use even longer reps for tempo training
(5-10 min with only 1 min or so rest)

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

No.

[email hidden] (Ronald H. Nicholson Jr.) wrote in
message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

There seem to be several race prediction formula and
calculators on the web, which relate pace at one distance
with pace at another.

Are there any equivalent formula or calculators for
predicting interval training pace for a similar workout
"effort", given differing distances, reps, rest times,
etc. e.g. if I want to double the distance of each rep, or
do twice as many reps at the same distance, or halve the
rest time between reps, how much should I adjust my pace
to get a similar workout level (e.g a "hard" day, or a
"medium" day).

Thanks.

IMHO. YMMV.

I think the following book will have the information you are looking for:

"Running Trax: Computerized Running" (Book) by J.
Gerry Purdy

I used the older version (gardner/purdy running tables) 20
years ago, and found it quite helpful. It doesn't tell you
*how* to train, but it will give you answers to the
following kinds of questions:

I just did 3 x 1m averaging 5:20. Am I ready to break 35:00
for a 10k?

I can do 20 x 220 averaging 35.5 seconds. What pace I should
aim for in 10 x 440?

I can do 6 x 800m at 2:40. Now I want to do a ladder workout
1m, 800, 400, 800, 1m. What times should I shoot for?

I can run a 10k in 41:30. What marathon time does this
equate to?

I found the original book to be very accurate for males in
the 20-40 age range--women are slower at the shorter
distances relative to men. It may be that older males have a
curve more like women -- speed goes before endurance.

-- Dan

("Ronald H. Nicholson Jr." <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

There seem to be several race prediction formula and
calculators on the web, which relate pace at one distance
with pace at another.

Are there any equivalent formula or calculators for
predicting interval training pace for a similar workout
"effort", given differing distances, reps, rest times,
etc. e.g. if I want to double the distance of each rep, or
do twice as many reps at the same distance, or halve the
rest time between reps, how much should I adjust my pace
to get a similar workout level (e.g a "hard" day, or a
"medium" day).

Thanks.

IMHO. YMMV.
--
Ron Nicholson rhn AT nicholson DOT com
nicholson.comrhnOpen ↗ #include
<canonical.disclaimer> // only my own opinions, etc.

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ronald H. Nicholson Jr. said:

There seem to be several race prediction formula and
calculators on the web, which relate pace at one
distance with pace at another.

Are there any equivalent formula or calculators for
predicting interval training pace for a similar workout
"effort", given differing distances, reps, rest times,
etc. e.g. if I want to double the distance of each rep,
or do twice as many reps at the same distance, or halve
the rest time between reps, how much should I adjust my
pace to get a similar workout level (e.g a "hard" day,
or a "medium" day).

Here's a caculator that computes paces for different types
of intervals:

panix.comvdot.htmlOpen ↗

Some suggestions about intervals: (*) intervals are
*always* a "hard" day. (*) the aim of intervals is to
train a certain physiological system. The

aim is

Quoted message said:

*not* to run the reps as fast as is physically possible
(though in most

cases,

Quoted message said:

the sessions will be pretty hard) (*) distance of reps and
time between reps again depends on the

physiological

Quoted message said:

system you're trying to train. Use long rests and short
reps for anaerobic training. Use long reps for VO2 max
training with short rests (3-5min 1:1

or

Quoted message said:

2:1 work/rest) and use even longer reps for tempo training
(5-10 min with only 1 min or so rest)

You can also do VO2max work in a different
manner: 30 sec all out, 30 sec nothing. Repeat as
long as you can.

Quoted message said:

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Donovan Rebbechi wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Ronald H. Nicholson Jr. said:

There seem to be several race prediction formula and
calculators on the web, which relate pace at one distance
with pace at another.

Are there any equivalent formula or calculators for
predicting interval training pace for a similar workout
"effort", given differing distances, reps, rest times,
etc. e.g. if I want to double the distance of each rep,
or do twice as many reps at the same distance, or halve
the rest time between reps, how much should I adjust my
pace to get a similar workout level (e.g a "hard" day, or
a "medium" day).

Here's a caculator that computes paces for different types
of intervals:

panix.comvdot.htmlOpen ↗

Some suggestions about intervals: (*) intervals are
*always* a "hard" day. (*) the aim of intervals is to train
a certain physiological system. The

aim is

Quoted message said:

*not* to run the reps as fast as is physically possible
(though in most

cases,

Quoted message said:

the sessions will be pretty hard) (*) distance of reps and
time between reps again depends on the

physiological

Quoted message said:

system you're trying to train. Use long rests and short
reps for anaerobic training. Use long reps for VO2 max
training with short rests (3-5min 1:1

or

Quoted message said:

2:1 work/rest) and use even longer reps for tempo training
(5-10 min with only 1 min or so rest)

Good concise description of training different systems.
Where does lactate threshold training fit into this? Also,
for the calculator you linked, do you enter a race effort or
a training effort? I've never used one of these before as
I've always used a HRM for intervals. My understanding is
that the difference between LT intervals and V02 max
intervals is that the latter are more intense and somewhat
shorter, designed to open up the lung system more - leave it
gasping. Mostly I've done LT intervals on the bike, either
on flats or hills, something like 5-7 times x 4-6 mins @ LT
100-105%, whereas some days I would do V02 max efforts at
4-5 times x 3-4 mins @ LT 110%up.

- Tony

Quoted message said:

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

I seem to recall finding a book about 30 years ago which
consisted mostly of tables and tables of equivalent interval
running workouts. Was this training information incorrect?
Or has it been updated?

In article
<[email hidden]>, Anal

traveler said:

No.

[email hidden] (Ronald H. Nicholson Jr.) wrote in
message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

There seem to be several race prediction formula and
calculators on the web, which relate pace at one distance
with pace at another.

Are there any equivalent formula or calculators for
predicting interval training pace for a similar workout
"effort", given differing distances, reps, rest times,
etc. e.g. if I want to double the distance of each rep,
or do twice as many reps at the same distance, or halve
the rest time between reps, how much should I adjust my
pace to get a similar workout level (e.g a "hard" day, or
a "medium" day).

Thanks.

IMHO. YMMV.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Some suggestions about intervals: (*) intervals are
*always* a "hard" day.

On the face of it, this seems completely false. I've
been across the pool from college team and even world
class swimmers, who seemed to be doing interval workouts
even on their "easy" days (but still going about twice
as fast as me 🙂.

You can make an interval workout easy just by decreasing the
distance of each repeat or the pace or by increasing the
recovery time, even when keeping the total distance the
same. My original question was if you made an interval
workout easier by the above, how much would you need to
increase the reps to bring it back to about the same level
of total workout value.

I just flipped through this book in the library; but
Galloway marathon training (lots of walking breaks) seems to
be an example of easy interval distance training.

IMHO. YMMV.
--
Ron Nicholson rhn AT nicholson DOT com
nicholson.comrhnOpen ↗ #include
<canonical.disclaimer> // only my own opinions, etc.

Dan Stumpus said:

I think the following book will have the information you
are looking for:

"Running Trax: Computerized Running" (Book) by J.
Gerry Purdy

I used the older version (gardner/purdy running tables) 20
years ago, and found it quite helpful. It doesn't tell you
*how* to train, but it will give you answers to the
following kinds of questions:

I just did 3 x 1m averaging 5:20. Am I ready to break
35:00 for a 10k?

I can do 20 x 220 averaging 35.5 seconds. What pace I
should aim for in 10 x 440?

I can do 6 x 800m at 2:40. Now I want to do a ladder
workout 1m, 800, 400, 800, 1m. What times should I
shoot for?

I can run a 10k in 41:30. What marathon time does this
equate to?

I found the original book to be very accurate for males in
the 20-40 age range--women are slower at the shorter
distances relative to men. It may be that older males have
a curve more like women -- speed goes before endurance.

Speed does go before endurance, as a perusal of the wava
correction factors for example will tell you.

The problem with using "prediction-formulas" for different
workouts is that they will only work if the different
workouts train much the same systems. For example, you could
use such tables to draw up 10 different types of VO2 max
workouts (which are a pretty good predictor of 5k
performance), but these won't tell you accurately how fast
to do anaerobic workouts (e.g. 400m with longer rests --
which seem to be better predictors of mile times than they
are of middle-distance times)

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Donovan Rebbechi <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(*) distance of reps and time between reps again depends
on the physiological system you're trying to train. Use
long rests and short reps for anaerobic training. Use long
reps for VO2 max training with short rests (3-5min 1:1 or
2:1 work/rest) and use even longer reps for tempo training
(5-10 min with only 1 min or so rest)

What about long reps with long rests? To be more specific,
what do you reckon is the physiological system being trained
with sessions like 6x1000m/1000m jog, 4x2000m/1600 and, last
but not least, 3x3000m/2000m? (All 10K pace or faster.)

The long recoveries would seem to have the aim of minimizing
the risk of doing the repeats with accumulated lactic acid -
I can guess that, but what is the specific point of that?

I must say that these are the most curious looking interval
sessions I`ve seen.

Anders

Tony said:

Quoted message said:

Good concise description of training different systems.
Where does lactate threshold training fit into this?

"T" pace is for lactate threshold training.

Quoted message said:

Also, for the calculator you linked, do you enter a race
effort or a training effort?

A race effort. Thanks for the comment, I've added that
to the page.

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Mostly I've done LT intervals on the bike, either on flats
or hills, something like 5-7 times x 4-6 mins @ LT 100-
105%, whereas some days I would do V02 max efforts at 4-5
times x 3-4 mins @ LT

That's similar to what I do (and what Daniels recommends)
for VO2 max workouts (I usually do 4x1200m reps, each rep is
just over 4 minutes)

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Ronald H. Nicholson Jr. said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Some suggestions about intervals: (*) intervals are
*always* a "hard" day.

On the face of it, this seems completely false. I've been
across the pool from college team and even world class
swimmers, who seemed to be doing interval workouts even
on their "easy" days (but still going about twice as fast
as me 🙂.

Swimming is different from running. It's often possible to
train pretty hard in non-impact sports, because accumulated
muscle damage is not as severe and impact related injuries
are a non-issue.

Quoted message said:

You can make an interval workout easy just by decreasing
the distance of each repeat or the pace or by increasing
the recovery time, even when keeping the total distance
the same.

You can, but what would be the advantage of that ? The
overall stress on your muscles and connective tissues is
ultimately much the same, because you are taking the same
number of steps at the same pace. You potentially reduce the
cardiovascular workload, but retain the high skeleto-
muscular load.

There are some workouts (e.g. anaerobic repeats) where this
is not such a bad thing (because your goal *is* to load the
muscular system, and practice form) but for more aerobic
workouts, reducing the cardiovascular load subverts the
goals of the workout.

There are other workouts (e.g. tempos) where you may wish to
allow brief rests to avoid accumulated fatigue and keep
blood lactate levels constant.

Either way, it doesn't make the workout "easy" on your
muscles, connective tissue and bones, so it counts as
a hard day.

Quoted message said:

My original question was if you made an interval workout
easier by the above, how much would you need to increase
the reps to bring it back to about the same level of total
workout value.

It depends on what your measure of "total workout value" is.
For the most part, the point of rests is to allow you to get
in more reps than you would be able to otherwise. For
example, if you do 1 mile LT reps with 1 minute rests, you
could do 6 of them instead of 3 miles continuous. But you
could do just 3 and it would be more or less as beneficial
as doing them straight.

Quoted message said:

I just flipped through this book in the library; but
Galloway marathon training (lots of walking breaks) seems
to be an example of easy interval distance training.

Not everyone agrees that it's effective. A lot of people
seem to do pretty well without it.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Sam said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2:1 work/rest) and use even longer reps for tempo
training (5-10 min with only 1 min or so rest)

You can also do VO2max work in a different manner:
30 sec all out, 30 sec nothing. Repeat as long as
you can.

I can do a VO2max workout in that manner, but my achilles
tendons wouldn't forgive me for it. I need to use anaerobic
reps sparelingly.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Speed does go before endurance, as a perusal of the wava
correction

factors

Quoted message said:

for example will tell you.

The problem with using "prediction-formulas" for different
workouts is

that

Quoted message said:

they will only work if the different workouts train much
the same systems. For example, you could use such tables
to draw up 10 different types of

VO2 max

Quoted message said:

workouts (which are a pretty good predictor of 5k
performance), but these won't tell you accurately how fast
to do anaerobic workouts (e.g. 400m

with

Quoted message said:

longer rests -- which seem to be better predictors of mile
times than they

are

Quoted message said:

of middle-distance times)

Purdy assumed a full recovery, I believe equal distance jog
between intervals.

So if you're doing miles (3 x 1mile can be done at 5k pace),
it's a vo2 type workout, while 440's and 220's make it more
of a repetition/economy workout, in Daniels' system, if I
understand it (which I just started reading, by the way).

Obviously, the further you get from your racing distance,
the less exactly predictive, but I found the whole concept
fairly accurate, until I get down to the lower number of
reps in the shorter distances, eg, 2 x 440 or 4 x
220. (I'll leave that stuff for Lyndon, since I could never
go faster than 29 for an all out 220 on distance
training).

Nothing's perfect, but it was fun stuff for a stat
monkey like me.

--Dan

Ronald H. Nicholson Jr. said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Some suggestions about intervals: (*) intervals are
*always* a "hard" day.

On the face of it, this seems completely false. I've been
across the pool from college team and even world class
swimmers, who seemed to be doing interval workouts even
on their "easy" days (but still going about twice as fast
as me 🙂.

How would you know thay are doing intervals on their
"easy" days? I doubt you could tell by just looking -
unless you asked them if it was an easy day and you knew
they were working hard (high hr or heavy breathing) during
the work portion.

Quoted message said:

You can make an interval workout easy just by decreasing
the distance of each repeat or the pace or by increasing
the recovery time, even when keeping the total distance
the same. My original question was if you made an interval
workout easier by the above, how much would you need to
increase the reps to bring it back to about the same level
of total workout value.

Rather than thinking in terms of easy or hard, think in
terms of specific objectives for a workout (like Donovan and
Sam explained): LT, VO2max, strength, etc.

Quoted message said:

I just flipped through this book in the library; but
Galloway marathon training (lots of walking breaks) seems
to be an example of easy interval distance training.

Yes, alternating running and walking [(assuming at different
efforts (I do hills where walking fast can raise hr to LT -
well above easy run effort)] for specific durations is a
form of intervals in that hard/easy are being alternated for
fixed times. And I wouldn't count run easy / walk easy as
hard, at least not in the sense that Galloway is using them
for distances. However, people have run/walked at fixed
intervals to US national 24 hr championship (beating a run-
only person), so it can be elite race pace also.

However, when a person talks about wanting to do intervals
or hard workout, there is the assumption that the work
portion will be something harder than easy - close to LT or
above - and the recovery portion will be less. As already
mentioned the intensity and duration of both the work and
recovery stage affect which physiological system is being
trained. Using paces rather than effort masks this, unless
you understand how your pace relates to various efforts.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

[email hidden] (Ronald H. Nicholson Jr.) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Some suggestions about intervals: (*) intervals are
*always* a "hard" day.

On the face of it, this seems completely false. I've been
across the pool from college team and even world class
swimmers, who seemed to be doing interval workouts even
on their "easy" days (but still going about twice as fast
as me 🙂.

No, as a swimmer...these are not interval workouts. They
are breaking to allow for variety both in the stroke and
the workout.

Swimmers have seperate workouts that are similar to interval
workouts. These are fartlek days, ladder days, speed days,
f***ing Mondays...whatever you happen to call them.

People who don't know how to swim (ie triathletes = )...)
get in the pool and swim crawl stroke for 45 minutes. These
are clearly not the swimmers you are talking about. And
these people are not training (well at least) for
speed...they are training to survive.

Most swimmers are not training for long distances. (If you
think long distance running is pathetic in the US...you
should see the state of distance swimming). Elite/master
level swimmers are training for shorter, faster distances.
Everything but the 2 mile at the elite level is a sprint. So
swimmers workouts are likely more similar to sprinters
(though I really don't know how running sprinters train to
say for certain). There is no race in swimming that takes
"most" racing folks about 18+ minutes (comparable to the
ubiquitious 5K). Races take between 3 and 10 minutes for
most races. The rare 1 mile takes about 18 minutes but
nobody swims this.

Plus swimmers usually need to work on multiple strokes. Note-
most runners...just go out and run...there is no
butterfly/backstroke/breaststroke equivalent in running.
Because there are multiple strokes, drills are very
important to swimmers. What would be a recovery/easy day for
a runner is a drill/technique day for a swimmer. Swimmers
spend a lot of time working on the "perfect stroke". This
does not involve long sets. This involves a lot of short
swims that are very mentally focused on a specific skill set
(finger tip drag/fist swimming/waves/one arms etc.). So you
see folks looking like they are doing intervals...when they
are not swimming intervals.

But when swimmers do do interval days, things like ladders
and fartleks...these are usually intense days that include
a long warm-up, a long cool down and a drill/technique day
the next day.

Finally swimming is fricking monotonous (like a treadmill in
a room with nothing on the walls/no TV/nothing to read) and
sets are usually complex so folks break between sets to
figure out what they need to
do.

Quoted message said:

You can make an interval workout easy just by decreasing
the distance of each repeat or the pace or by increasing
the recovery time, even when keeping the total distance
the same. My original question was if you made an interval
workout easier by the above, how much would you need to
increase the reps to bring it back to about the same level
of total workout value.

I'm still not buying the easier but equitable argument. If I
run my intervals at a certain HRM level and that happens to
be way slower than Donovan's speed...it doesn't make it any
easier for me.

And it doesn't mean I should increase the number of reps so
my workout has the same "total workout value" as Donovans.
Me running my interval set of 6x400s at my correct pace is
the correct "total workout value" for me.

Running them at my slower, long run pace but doing more
doesn't make it an interval set...it makes an LSD set.

Slow is still too slow. If I want to be fast, I have to run
fast. I might need more time between sets and need to do
fewer sets than a hard core 5Ker, but I still need to run at
a fast speed.

Quoted message said:

I just flipped through this book in the library; but
Galloway marathon training (lots of walking breaks) seems
to be an example of easy interval distance training.

Sure...but Galloway is not giving you intervals.

He is helping you survive something that you would not be
able to do without breaks. See note from the rock star 70
years old that takes breaks in his marathon. The 75 yrs. old
runner is not speed training by walking. He's helping
himself survive. I know it's novel but for folks like Oprah
training for a marathon is about survival (in the 6 hr +
category) not speed.

Quoted message said:

IMHO. YMMV.

IMHCounterO.

~b

">

Quoted message said:

Good concise description of training different systems.
Where does lactate threshold training fit into this? Also,
for the calculator you linked, do you enter a race effort
or a training effort? I've never used one of

these

Quoted message said:

before as I've always used a HRM for intervals. My
understanding is that the difference between LT intervals
and V02 max intervals is that the

latter

Quoted message said:

are more intense and somewhat shorter, designed to open up
the lung system more - leave it gasping. Mostly I've done
LT intervals on the bike,

either

Quoted message said:

on flats or hills, something like 5-7 times x 4-6 mins @
LT 100-105%, whereas some days I would do V02 max efforts
at 4-5 times x 3-4 mins @ LT 110%up.

Typically LT intervals longer (whether cycling or running).
For instance a LT effort might go from 10 to 30 min (some go
upwards of 45 min but these are tough on concentration). If
you break that up, you need to keep the recoveries short. A
little slower than 10K pace is a good estimate.

VO2max intervals usually are 2 to 5min in duration (although
shorter ones can be used if recoveries are really short).
The work:rest ratio is usually
1:1. In running this would be about 3000m race pace.

Donovan Rebbechi wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Ronald H. Nicholson Jr. said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Some suggestions about intervals: (*) intervals are
*always* a "hard" day.

On the face of it, this seems completely false. I've been
across the pool from college team and even world class
swimmers, who seemed to be doing interval workouts even
on their "easy" days (but still going about twice as fast
as me 🙂.

Swimming is different from running. It's often possible to
train pretty

hard

Quoted message said:

in non-impact sports, because accumulated muscle damage is
not as severe

and

Quoted message said:

impact related injuries are a non-issue.

Quoted message said:

You can make an interval workout easy just by decreasing
the distance of each repeat or the pace or by increasing
the recovery time, even when keeping the total distance
the same.

You can, but what would be the advantage of that ? The
overall stress on

your

Quoted message said:

muscles and connective tissues is ultimately much the same,
because you are taking the same number of steps at the same
pace. You potentially reduce

the

Quoted message said:

cardiovascular workload, but retain the high skeleto-
muscular load.

There are some workouts (e.g. anaerobic repeats) where this
is not such a

bad

Quoted message said:

thing (because your goal *is* to load the muscular system,
and practice

form)

Quoted message said:

but for more aerobic workouts, reducing the cardiovascular
load subverts

the

Quoted message said:

goals of the workout.

There are other workouts (e.g. tempos) where you may wish
to allow brief

rests

Quoted message said:

to avoid accumulated fatigue and keep blood lactate levels
constant.

Either way, it doesn't make the workout "easy" on your
muscles, connective tissue and bones, so it counts as a
hard day.

Quoted message said:

My original question was if you made an interval workout
easier by the above, how much would you need to increase
the reps to bring it back to about the same level of
total workout value.

It depends on what your measure of "total workout value"
is. For the most

part,

Quoted message said:

the point of rests is to allow you to get in more reps than
you would be

able

Quoted message said:

to otherwise. For example, if you do 1 mile LT reps with 1
minute rests,

you

Quoted message said:

could do 6 of them instead of 3 miles continuous. But you
could do just 3

and

Quoted message said:

it would be more or less as beneficial as doing them
straight.

I disagree because the rests, however short, provide the
body with a stimulus to improve the metabolic needs of such
efforts: eg fuel the muscles and process the lacate
accumulation effectively. I'm of the opinion from my reading
and experience that efforts such as races run all out do not
actually have much training benefit because they stress the
body too much and whatever recovery takes place is undoing
the damage from the race more than improving the systems.
Measured efforts with rests will stimulate the recovery and
improvement of the capacity targeted. Perhaps races of 5k or
less are short enough to have a stimulus for improvement
without tearing down the body to the point where any
training effect is overshadowed. Certainly races of 10k or
longer, run to one's ability, damage the systems to the
point where recovery overshadows improvement. Those who have
run marathons or ultras know how long the body takes to
fully recover, and any training effect is gone at these
distances. In the case of ultras its well known that even
the endocrine system is highly stressed and can take 6 to 8
weeks to fully recover...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I just flipped through this book in the library; but
Galloway marathon training (lots of walking breaks) seems
to be an example of easy interval distance training.

I haven't read the galloway book, but those sound like a
different kind of "interval" designed to adapt the legs and
general aerobic system to run longer, as opposed to LT
intervals which improve your ability to run at a very high
effort for a longer period of time without getting slowed by
lactate accumulation. When increasing the length of your
long runs in my opinion its ok to walk some as needed to
recover on route, but the need to walk is more likely from
general muscle and system fatigue than from excessive lacate
accumulation.

Quoted message said:

Not everyone agrees that it's effective. A lot of people
seem to do pretty

well

Quoted message said:

without it.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Dan Stumpus said:

So if you're doing miles (3 x 1mile can be done at 5k
pace), it's a vo2 type workout, while 440's and 220's make
it more of a repetition/economy workout, in Daniels'
system, if I understand it (which I just started reading,
by the way).

Sounds right to me too. My experience is that when you start
dropping to quarters (as opposed to halves and up) is where
you really see the shift. You really notice this when
training in a group, because the milers will be fast on the
quarters (and the older runners will be slow) but the
performance on long reps tends to go with 5k performance and
and on tempo runs gos with half marathon ability.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

"Dot" <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ronald H. Nicholson Jr. said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Some suggestions about intervals: (*) intervals are
*always* a "hard" day.

On the face of it, this seems completely false. I've
been across the pool from college team and even world
class swimmers, who seemed to be doing interval workouts
even on their "easy" days (but still going about twice
as fast as me 🙂.

How would you know thay are doing intervals on their
"easy" days? I doubt you could tell by just looking -
unless you asked them if it was an easy day and you knew
they were working hard (high hr or heavy breathing) during
the work portion.

Swimmers seem to do very little long continuous
training. It is easy to tell that they are doing
intervals: They swim 4 laps, stop, grab the side of
the pool and then go again.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You can make an interval workout easy just by decreasing
the distance of each repeat or the pace or by increasing
the recovery time, even when keeping the total distance
the same. My original question was if you made an
interval workout easier by the above, how much would you
need to increase the reps to bring it back to about the
same level of total workout value.

Rather than thinking in terms of easy or hard, think in
terms of specific objectives for a workout (like Donovan
and Sam explained): LT, VO2max, strength, etc.

Quoted message said:

I just flipped through this book in the library; but
Galloway marathon training (lots of walking breaks)
seems to be an example of easy

interval

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

distance training.

Yes, alternating running and walking [(assuming at
different efforts (I do hills where walking fast can raise
hr to LT - well above easy run effort)] for specific
durations is a form of intervals in that hard/easy are
being alternated for fixed times. And I wouldn't count run
easy / walk easy as hard, at least not in the sense that
Galloway is using them for distances. However, people have
run/walked at fixed intervals to US national 24 hr
championship (beating a run-only person), so it can be
elite race pace also.

However, when a person talks about wanting to do intervals
or hard workout, there is the assumption that the work
portion will be something harder than easy - close to LT
or above - and the recovery portion will be less. As
already mentioned the intensity and duration of both the
work and recovery stage affect which physiological system
is being trained. Using paces rather than effort masks
this, unless you understand how your pace relates to
various efforts.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
Heinrich in Racing the Antelope