Interval Heart Rate Limit?

wiredued said:

When doing intense intervals I noticed my heart rate goes way up should I raise the upper limit for intervals or is 85% max still the rule?

What are these intervals that you're doing? What are you trying to accomplish with them? How long are they?

If your HR is going above where you originally had it, it may be time to increase the intensity a bit...or you can increase the length of the interval, or decrease the rest periods. It all depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

I was inspired by this quote on interval training by phillipm "...providing a real performance kick on a variety of levels, e.g. boosting VO2max, lactate capacity, aerobic capacity, and overall performance." That's good stuff then the reply by ric "intervals of 2-mins all-out would work anaerobic capacity to a fair degree. To work on increasing VO2max you need intervals of at least 3-mins and/or much shorter recovery periods. Working on anaerobic capacity can be done quite quickly. Seriously working on VO2max should be left until fairly late (e.g. 6 - 8 prior to main peak) or very early (If using reverse periodisation)."

So then I went to this site http://www.inlandempirecycling.com/Cycling/interval_training.htm

This gave me the idea of doing intervals every sunday with a recovery ride every monday. I haven't really designed one on my own yet I am using interval 59 on www.ifit.com and it is sending my heart rate up above my 85% max but the intervals are only 4 minutes then rest 4 minutes and I feel ok so should I ignore the heart rate if it's just for a short time?

Orange Fish said:

What are these intervals that you're doing? What are you trying to accomplish with them? How long are they?

If your HR is going above where you originally had it, it may be time to increase the intensity a bit...or you can increase the length of the interval, or decrease the rest periods. It all depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

wiredued said:

This gave me the idea of doing intervals every sunday with a recovery ride every monday. I haven't really designed one on my own yet I am using interval 59 on www.ifit.com and it is sending my heart rate up above my 85% max but the intervals are only 4 minutes then rest 4 minutes and I feel ok so should I ignore the heart rate if it's just for a short time?

So 4 mins? Ok, sounds good. Well, 4 minutes is enough time for your heart rate to respond and reach a steady state, so I would keep the focus on my HR. Usually it takes 2-3 minutes for HR to reach a steady state, so after reaching that point, you would be maintaining that intensity around 85% for 1-2 minutes. Does your HR progressively increase throughout the interval? Or do you make sure to get up to the desired intensity quickly and then maintain that for the duration of the interval? What I would try to avoid doing is starting the interval too easy and then working up to a harder intensity towards the last 1-2 minutes, which would cause your HR to continue to rise. Instead, take that feeling, or perceived exertion (or speed, etc) at the point where you're at 85%, and immediately get to that point at the start of the interval and try to maintain that intensity (regardless of your HR for the first 2-3 mins) for the duration of the 4 minute interval. I'm not sure if that all came out the way I wanted it to, so if it doesn't make sense, just let me know.

Basically, if you can get a nice rise and a plateau in your HR at that 85% point, and it still feels easy, then you could do a few things - decrease the rest interval, increase the work interval, or increase the intensity a bit.

wiredued said:

I was inspired by this quote on interval training by phillipm "...providing a real performance kick on a variety of levels, e.g. boosting VO2max, lactate capacity, aerobic capacity, and overall performance." That's good stuff then the reply by ric "intervals of 2-mins all-out would work anaerobic capacity to a fair degree. To work on increasing VO2max you need intervals of at least 3-mins and/or much shorter recovery periods. Working on anaerobic capacity can be done quite quickly. Seriously working on VO2max should be left until fairly late (e.g. 6 - 8 prior to main peak) or very early (If using reverse periodisation)."

So then I went to this site http://www.inlandempirecycling.com/Cycling/interval_training.htm

This gave me the idea of doing intervals every sunday with a recovery ride every monday. I haven't really designed one on my own yet I am using interval 59 on www.ifit.com and it is sending my heart rate up above my 85% max but the intervals are only 4 minutes then rest 4 minutes and I feel ok so should I ignore the heart rate if it's just for a short time?

As I mentioned earlier, my opinion is that all these short high-intensity intervals aren't going to be worth much without a good mileage base to build your endurance for the 30 mile club rides. Believe that's what Ric was saying in his comments. How many 30 mile or two hour rides have you done so far this year?

Most training programs I've looked at, as well as my own experience, says you first develop the endurance capacity to go the distance at an efficient aerobic pace. You do this by putting in your base miles. Best to do at least one training ride a week up to your target distance at a good, steady aerobic pace. 70-75% of max HR would be fine to start with, then build intensity as your endurance improves.

VO2 max training may allow you to sprint up the first couple of hills at the front, but
if your steady-state, two hour output (~ 75-80% max HR) isn't enough to keep you in the pack, you'll get fried early (from working above your LT) and dropped.

Again, believe you should concentrate on your total weekly cycling mileage (or time) base more now if you want to be able to hang with the club pack in May on the 30 mile rides. If you ride in rolling or hilly terrain, you'll get all the intervals you need.

I have to agree with you there and also I think the resistance on the intervals was to high 10 (maximum) I couldn't maintain a steady cadence there really was no plateau as orange fish mentioned and there should be. I settle down at resistance 9 a cadence of 89 gives me 80% and 90 gives me 85% HR its much more controlable I have to customize my own intervals.

Thanks for your advise

dhk said:

As I mentioned earlier, my opinion is that all these short high-intensity intervals aren't going to be worth much without a good mileage base to build your endurance for the 30 mile club rides. Believe that's what Ric was saying in his comments. How many 30 mile or two hour rides have you done so far this year?

Most training programs I've looked at, as well as my own experience, says you first develop the endurance capacity to go the distance at an efficient aerobic pace. You do this by putting in your base miles. Best to do at least one training ride a week up to your target distance at a good, steady aerobic pace. 70-75% of max HR would be fine to start with, then build intensity as your endurance improves.

VO2 max training may allow you to sprint up the first couple of hills at the front, but
if your steady-state, two hour output (~ 75-80% max HR) isn't enough to keep you in the pack, you'll get fried early (from working above your LT) and dropped.

Again, believe you should concentrate on your total weekly cycling mileage (or time) base more now if you want to be able to hang with the club pack in May on the 30 mile rides. If you ride in rolling or hilly terrain, you'll get all the intervals you need.

wiredued said:

I was inspired by this quote on interval training by phillipm "...providing a real performance kick on a variety of levels, e.g. boosting VO2max, lactate capacity, aerobic capacity, and overall performance." That's good stuff then the reply by ric "intervals of 2-mins all-out would work anaerobic capacity to a fair degree. To work on increasing VO2max you need intervals of at least 3-mins and/or much shorter recovery periods. Working on anaerobic capacity can be done quite quickly. Seriously working on VO2max should be left until fairly late (e.g. 6 - 8 prior to main peak) or very early (If using reverse periodisation)."

So then I went to this site inlandempirecycling.cominterval training.htmOpen ↗

This gave me the idea of doing intervals every sunday with a recovery ride every monday. I haven't really designed one on my own yet I am using interval 59 on www.ifit.com and it is sending my heart rate up above my 85% max but the intervals are only 4 minutes then rest 4 minutes and I feel ok so should I ignore the heart rate if it's just for a short time?

I'm no expert on the subject but I have done a bit of reading, both here and on other web sites. Since you've quoted me I'll share my method (for what it's worth).

My intervals (till now) consist of equal work/recovery - currently 2 minutes each. I divide the work period into thirds and accelerate thru each third so that the last is as hard as I can ride without hitting the wall (takes a little practice), i.e. without platue or drop-off. Then easy rolling for the recovery period. I try to do 8 reps twice a week along with 2 speed sessions (incl a Crit) and one endurance session (approx 100km). This is competition season for those down under. Over the off season I intend to reduce intervals & speed and increase endurance.

As far as HR is concerned, the max for an interval can vary from 88% to 95% depending on all the known variables. Sometimes, no matter how hard I try I can't get it above 90%. I think HR is not a good measure for interval intensity - without power monitoring I believe perceived effort is the next best thing - not HR.

Seems to work for me - I think you have to listen to your body and act accordingly. Any comment/suggestions are welcome.

phillipm said:

I'm no expert on the subject but I have done a bit of reading, both here and on other web sites. Since you've quoted me I'll share my method (for what it's worth).

My intervals (till now) consist of equal work/recovery - currently 2 minutes each. I divide the work period into thirds and accelerate thru each third so that the last is as hard as I can ride without hitting the wall (takes a little practice), i.e. without platue or drop-off. Then easy rolling for the recovery period. I try to do 8 reps twice a week along with 2 speed sessions (incl a Crit) and one endurance session (approx 100km). This is competition season for those down under. Over the off season I intend to reduce intervals & speed and increase endurance.

As far as HR is concerned, the max for an interval can vary from 88% to 95% depending on all the known variables. Sometimes, no matter how hard I try I can't get it above 90%. I think HR is not a good measure for interval intensity - without power monitoring I believe perceived effort is the next best thing - not HR.

Seems to work for me - I think you have to listen to your body and act accordingly. Any comment/suggestions are welcome.

Sounds good. But, of course this isn't a routine for beginners. Would guess you've been riding for at least a few years, and are at a pretty good level now. Between training and racing, how many miles a year do you ride on average?

What's a crit?🙂

phillipm said:

I'm no expert on the subject but I have done a bit of reading, both here and on other web sites. Since you've quoted me I'll share my method (for what it's worth).

My intervals (till now) consist of equal work/recovery - currently 2 minutes each. I divide the work period into thirds and accelerate thru each third so that the last is as hard as I can ride without hitting the wall (takes a little practice), i.e. without platue or drop-off. Then easy rolling for the recovery period. I try to do 8 reps twice a week along with 2 speed sessions (incl a Crit) and one endurance session (approx 100km). This is competition season for those down under. Over the off season I intend to reduce intervals & speed and increase endurance.

As far as HR is concerned, the max for an interval can vary from 88% to 95% depending on all the known variables. Sometimes, no matter how hard I try I can't get it above 90%. I think HR is not a good measure for interval intensity - without power monitoring I believe perceived effort is the next best thing - not HR.

Seems to work for me - I think you have to listen to your body and act accordingly. Any comment/suggestions are welcome.

dhk said:

Sounds good. But, of course this isn't a routine for beginners. Would guess you've been riding for at least a few years, and are at a pretty good level now. Between training and racing, how many miles a year do you ride on average?

I still consider myself a relative beginner - this is my second season of racing and been training for about 2 full years. I've been doing this type of program since September with intervals since early December building up the intensity over the season.

I don't really know the distance per year. I think I'd average around 280-300km/week so that would be around 14000-15000km/year (8500-9000miles). My HRM says 8250kms since the beginning of September - sounds tiring :o

wiredued said:

What's a crit?🙂

Sorry for the short-hand - Criterium.

What would be the equivalent trainer miles is it 9000=4500?

phillipm said:

I still consider myself a relative beginner - this is my second season of racing and been training for about 2 full years. I've been doing this type of program since September with intervals since early December building up the intensity over the season.

I don't really know the distance per year. I think I'd average around 280-300km/week so that would be around 14000-15000km/year (8500-9000miles). My HRM says 8250kms since the beginning of September - sounds tiring :o

wiredued said:

What would be the equivalent trainer miles is it 9000=4500?

Sorry, I haven't got a clue, but I think after spending that much time on a trainer I'd be a raving looney. :p

I probably am a raving looney there is snow on the ground here in Massachusetts USA and my internal motor so to speak is running. Anyways thanks for the help I designed a workout to fit your description and decided to do it on wednesdays because my off days are thursday and friday so a recovery ride would fit in perfect on thursday. Here is a site I hope you take a look at it is by Ray Comfort (an Australian preacher🙂) if you watch the video I would be thrilled beyond words. http://www.livingwaters.com/listenwatch.shtml

phillipm said:

Sorry, I haven't got a clue, but I think after spending that much time on a trainer I'd be a raving looney. :p

phillipm said:

I still consider myself a relative beginner - this is my second season of racing and been training for about 2 full years. I've been doing this type of program since September with intervals since early December building up the intensity over the season.

I don't really know the distance per year. I think I'd average around 280-300km/week so that would be around 14000-15000km/year (8500-9000miles). My HRM says 8250kms since the beginning of September - sounds tiring :o

From the description of your schedule, I had the impression that you have been doing a lot of training. 8500-9000 miles a year for the last two years is major volume. IMO, that's what enables you to recover and benefit from the intensity intervals now.

I know it sounds old school, but believe it was Eddy Merckx coach (Dr. Pierfederici?) who said the three most important things are "ride the bike, ride the bike, and then ride the bike."

Agree we'd all be looney doing that many miles on a trainer. For me, it's tougher to go hard on a trainer than on the road. I do mostly easy or moderate endurance rides on the trainer now when the weather is poor, since I get all the intensity I need for the week on the Saturday club rides. (We ride when temps are above 40F and roads are dry, which means the majority of the winter weekends here.)

wiredued said:

I probably am a raving looney there is snow on the ground here in Massachusetts USA and my internal motor so to speak is running. Anyways thanks for the help I designed a workout to fit your description and decided to do it on wednesdays because my off days are thursday and friday so a recovery ride would fit in perfect on thursday. Here is a site I hope you take a look at it is by Ray Comfort (an Australian preacher🙂) if you watch the video I would be thrilled beyond words. livingwaters.comlistenwatch.shtmlOpen ↗

We in Oz (or at least I) have no concept of "real winter cold" unless I'm in the ski resorts. I felt pretty cold riding to work this morning and it was 11C - I'm moving to the tropics so I don't have to deal with it.

Cheers

dhk said:

From the description of your schedule, I had the impression that you have been doing a lot of training. 8500-9000 miles a year for the last two years is major volume. IMO, that's what enables you to recover and benefit from the intensity intervals now.

I know it sounds old school, but believe it was Eddy Merckx coach (Dr. Pierfederici?) who said the three most important things are "ride the bike, ride the bike, and then ride the bike."

Agree we'd all be looney doing that many miles on a trainer. For me, it's tougher to go hard on a trainer than on the road. I do mostly easy or moderate endurance rides on the trainer now when the weather is poor, since I get all the intensity I need for the week on the Saturday club rides. (We ride when temps are above 40F and roads are dry, which means the majority of the winter weekends here.)

We don't have the same level of cold here but my trainer still gets a workout over the winter. I struggle with spending more than 2 hours at a time.

In terms of my training schedule, this is the highest volume I'd do in the year and I'm training for a specific event in a few weeks time, then I'll back off.

I must admit, I'm an addictive personality - have to go full on. I'm haven't figure out if that's a good thing or a bad thing but so far I'm still standing.🙄