interesting trail running collision

"rick++" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Lets say I observed a trail running collision-
(I take the fifth on how close I observed it).
One trail runner was about to pass another
in a narrow, rocky downhill stretch.
But at the point of passing they both hit a piece of
ice hidden beneath the dirt. Both go flying,
ending up with one scraped skin and scraped clothes.
One twists an ankle and is out of commission for
a few weeks, while the othe is immediately able
to continue running.

The question is, whats the proper passing
protocol or courtesy to reduce these kind
of collisions?
One point of view is that the person with
more momentum (speed and mass) has
more responsiblilty on a trail because they could
cause more harm, i.e. walker versus runner
versus skater versus boarder versus biker
versus horse, etc.
ANother point of view is the lard-asses are
using the trail less efficiently as should automaticaly
yield to the speedsters.
Should the passer signal that they want to pass?
Should the passer wait for a safe place to pass?

Rick, is your computer's montitor really small?

cheers,
--
David Hirsh, director
www.urbanburn.com - half marathon, full throttle!
www.absolutelyaccurate.com - Hamilton's summer series!

"SwStudio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Rick, is your computer's montitor really small?

err... monitor, even?

cheers,
--
David Hirsh, director
www.urbanburn.com - half marathon, full throttle!
www.absolutelyaccurate.com - Hamilton's summer series!

"rick++" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Lets say I observed a trail running collision-
(I take the fifth on how close I observed it).
One trail runner was about to pass another
in a narrow, rocky downhill stretch.

The person passing should yell loudly passing on your right or left and
with enough time to let the person being passed to get out of the way.
The person being passed should move out of the way even it means he
stops and moves to the side. In icy/muddy conditions both people should
be extra careful.

-DougF

rick++ said:

The question is, whats the proper passing
protocol or courtesy to reduce these kind
of collisions?

There is no protocol. In trail running everyone is on there own, and
in this case nobody could have forseen the ice hidden under the dirt.

SwStudio said:

Rick, is your computer's montitor really small?

No, but his brain is.

Doug Freese said:

The person passing should yell loudly passing on your right or left and
with enough time to let the person being passed to get out of the way.
The person being passed should move out of the way even it means he
stops and moves to the side.

Well, the person being passed should move to the side AT THE FIRST
OPPORTUNITY. On a wide trail it's usually no problem. But on narrow
ones, particularly ones cut into a slope, there may be no place to move
over right away. So it might take the passe a while to find a safe spot
and in that instance, the passer needs to cool his jets and be patient.

And on a running note, I've started running again after being down over
6 months with a broken ankle. I'm WAY out of shape but after 4 weeks of
short and easy, I took the plunge and ran a trail marathon Saturday. It
was slow and pitiful, but I finished unscathed and even managed a 6M
work out the kinks run yesterday. Just goes to show, old dogs remember
old tricks :-)

--
- The Trailrunner

Anti-Spam Alert: If you wish to reply, cut the *BS*

Trails of the Diablo Valley
*Running - Hiking - Nature*
http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/trails/6016/

"rick++" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Lets say I observed a trail running collision-
(I take the fifth on how close I observed it).
One trail runner was about to pass another
in a narrow, rocky downhill stretch.
But at the point of passing they both hit a piece of
ice hidden beneath the dirt. Both go flying,
ending up with one scraped skin and scraped clothes.
One twists an ankle and is out of commission for
a few weeks, while the othe is immediately able
to continue running.

The question is, whats the proper passing
protocol or courtesy to reduce these kind
of collisions?
One point of view is that the person with
more momentum (speed and mass) has
more responsiblilty on a trail because they could
cause more harm, i.e. walker versus runner
versus skater versus boarder versus biker
versus horse, etc.
ANother point of view is the lard-asses are
using the trail less efficiently as should automaticaly
yield to the speedsters.
Should the passer signal that they want to pass?
Should the passer wait for a safe place to pass?

The person who wants to pass should make his intent known, and on which
side, unless he can do so far enough off-trail to not effect the person
being passed. The person being passed should yeild. Do you want someone
running behind you wanting to pass breathing down your neck? Only a dumbass
wouldn't let someone pass.

I bike on a paved path sometimes where people walk, run and rollerblade
also. There are unwritten rules most adhere to. Multiple walkers shouldn't
take up the whole width of the path (most are aware and don't). Walkers
should mostly hold their line on the path, and do a head check when moving
left or right. Bikers weave to avoid walkers, not the other way around, and
should stop and/or go off the path if necessary to avoid walkers, runners
and rollerbladers. Rollerbladers need special warning when being passed from
behind by a bike, and the bike should hold it's line and let the
rollerblader choose a path around if going in opposite directions. 99% of
the people seem to follow these rules. Newbies walkers will sometimes change
their line to avoid a bike, sometimes causing near collisions.

-Tony

The Trailrunner said:

Doug Freese said:

The person passing should yell loudly passing on your right or left and
with enough time to let the person being passed to get out of the way.
The person being passed should move out of the way even it means he
stops and moves to the side.

Well, the person being passed should move to the side AT THE FIRST
OPPORTUNITY. On a wide trail it's usually no problem. But on narrow
ones, particularly ones cut into a slope, there may be no place to move
over right away. So it might take the passe a while to find a safe spot
and in that instance, the passer needs to cool his jets and be patient.

Well I agree with you, but the stuff you are suggesting is just common
courtesy, and he asked if there was a "protocol". The vast amount of
replys he will get to this thread will show that everyone has a
different idea of how that should be handled. I just do the things you
say, and if required I just stop and yield.

easy answer...."Ladies First"....no? men you ask? i believe they are
on the roads competing in road races....

Tony S. said:

I bike on a paved path sometimes where people walk, run and rollerblade
also. There are unwritten rules most adhere to. Multiple walkers shouldn't
take up the whole width of the path (most are aware and don't). Walkers
should mostly hold their line on the path, and do a head check when moving
left or right. Bikers weave to avoid walkers, not the other way around, and
should stop and/or go off the path if necessary to avoid walkers, runners
and rollerbladers. Rollerbladers need special warning when being passed from
behind by a bike, and the bike should hold it's line and let the
rollerblader choose a path around if going in opposite directions. 99% of
the people seem to follow these rules. Newbies walkers will sometimes change
their line to avoid a bike, sometimes causing near collisions.

-Tony

Where is this? Never-never land, right outside Oz?

Quoted message said:

easy answer...."Ladies First"....no? men you ask? i believe they are
on the roads competing in road races....

So we all have to yield to you Lance-a-snot?

Quoted message said:

easy answer...."Ladies First"....no? men you ask? i believe they are
on the roads competing in road races....

Oh sorry, I meant "Launch-a-snot"

"JRH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tony S. said:

I bike on a paved path sometimes where people walk, run and rollerblade
also. There are unwritten rules most adhere to. Multiple walkers

shouldn't

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

take up the whole width of the path (most are aware and don't). Walkers
should mostly hold their line on the path, and do a head check when

moving

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

left or right. Bikers weave to avoid walkers, not the other way around,

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

should stop and/or go off the path if necessary to avoid walkers, runners
and rollerbladers. Rollerbladers need special warning when being passed

from

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

behind by a bike, and the bike should hold it's line and let the
rollerblader choose a path around if going in opposite directions. 99% of
the people seem to follow these rules. Newbies walkers will sometimes

change

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

their line to avoid a bike, sometimes causing near collisions.

-Tony

Where is this? Never-never land, right outside Oz?

Boring stuff I agree, but I can't help noticing that the regulars all learn.
It's the kids you have to watch out for.

-T

"The Trailrunner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Doug Freese said:

The person passing should yell loudly passing on your right or left
and with enough time to let the person being passed to get out of
the way. The person being passed should move out of the way even it
means he stops and moves to the side.

Well, the person being passed should move to the side AT THE FIRST
OPPORTUNITY. On a wide trail it's usually no problem. But on narrow
ones, particularly ones cut into a slope, there may be no place to
move over right away. So it might take the passe a while to find a
safe spot and in that instance, the passer needs to cool his jets and
be patient.

I was alluding to this when I said time to get out of the way, but you
said it much better. The important part - the slow runner must
yield/move to allow the faster runner. It's not a case of I was here
first and you go around me.

Quoted message said:

And on a running note, I've started running again after being down
over 6 months with a broken ankle. I'm WAY out of shape but after 4
weeks of short and easy, I took the plunge and ran a trail marathon
Saturday. It was slow and pitiful, but I finished unscathed and even
managed a 6M work out the kinks run yesterday. Just goes to show, old
dogs remember old tricks :-)

Woof! 🙂

-DougF

"JRH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Well I agree with you, but the stuff you are suggesting is just common
courtesy, and he asked if there was a "protocol".

For new people, especially when running on trails, this is not known
and therefore isn't protocol. How about on milti-lane track where the
inside lane is supposed to be for the faster runner and the slower
should yield the lane? Even with signs posted some still feel they were
there first and will not move. The point, "protocol" needs to be
learned.

-DF

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

easy answer...."Ladies First"....no? men you ask? i believe they
are
on the roads competing in road races....

At least some of us ladies are out there running while some macho dudes
are sitting home licking their injured balls It really is fun to run
all year. 😉

-DF

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 04:20:35 GMT, "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

How about on milti-lane track where the
inside lane is supposed to be for the faster runner and the slower
should yield the lane?

That's track running with clearly defined rules, and they are usually
even posted. The OP asked about trail running. Do you know the
difference?

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 04:27:26 GMT, "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

At least some of us ladies are out there

So here we have it folks, proof of the sex change I told you about a
year ago, and you all laughed. So what's your new name, Darlene
Freese? If you haven't chosen one yet, how about letting the NG chose
it with a contest? Sounds like good, clean, fun to me.

The Trailrunner said:

Doug Freese said:

The person passing should yell loudly passing on your right or left
and with enough time to let the person being passed to get out of the
way. The person being passed should move out of the way even it means
he stops and moves to the side.

Well, the person being passed should move to the side AT THE FIRST
OPPORTUNITY. On a wide trail it's usually no problem. But on narrow
ones, particularly ones cut into a slope, there may be no place to move
over right away. So it might take the passe a while to find a safe spot
and in that instance, the passer needs to cool his jets and be patient.

Something I've done on the rare occasion that someone wants to pass
(race or training run) is to judge how fast they might be closing -
either by footfalls, breathing, saw them around a bend, etc. If they're
closing fast, then they obviously want to pass. But if they're closing
slowly (ie similar pace to mine) and don't say anything, I ask them if
they want to pass before I step off the trail to let them by. Sometimes
the person has been pacing off me and didn't want to pass. Or if they
see me looking over my shoulder to judge when to let them by, they'll
let me know they don't want to pass. If it's the last few minutes of a
race, there's enough room for them to get around, they don't call for
the trail, and I'd given them ample room (pulled way to edge of double
track) several times earlier, I just go for it.

Quoted message said:

And on a running note, I've started running again after being down over
6 months with a broken ankle. I'm WAY out of shape but after 4 weeks of
short and easy, I took the plunge and ran a trail marathon Saturday. It
was slow and pitiful, but I finished unscathed and even managed a 6M
work out the kinks run yesterday. Just goes to show, old dogs remember
old tricks :-)

4 weeks buildup for a marathon 😉 Way to go!

Dot

--
"So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste
away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog