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Interesting Quote On Ferrari

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01 / Original postInteresting Quote On FerrariEmail address hidden · 24 Aug 2005 02 / This pagePosts 1–6Page 1 of 1 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #6Tom Kunich · 25 Aug 2005

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Road Cycling
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24 August 2005
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  1. Original post
    Email address hidden
    Archived post
    #1

    Here is an old interview (that I'd never seen before) where Armand De
    Las Cuevas
    says that Ferrari would actually "protect" his riders by not allowing
    them to go over %52, isn't basically an admission
    that he was facilitating the doping program of riders? Then the second
    quote DLC admits to using drugs: "I did what the others did"
    I've never seen any of this before. He wasn't a minor rider either, you
    would think this would have made more of a stir in the cycling world.

    http://eurocyclingnews.rivals.net/default.asp?sid=1041&p=2&stid=8215647

    S-O: But Ferrari is going before the courts this week because he is
    alleged to be prescribed doping products. Did he offer you EPO?

    ADLC: No, never. I repeat that I was looking for a trainer who could
    harden me. At that time the only alternative was to go to ex-riders for
    advice. Then I went to him and he asked if I wanted results in the long
    term or the short term. I said the long term. That's how it was for me,
    but I don't know about others. I now think that Ferrari was a
    'protector'. He would indicate both the advantages and the risks of
    taking such and such a product. Before the 50% rule, he forbid riders
    from going over 52%. But it was down to the individual to act on his
    own conscience.

    S-O: Now that you're a father and have moved away from the bike world,
    don't you regret certain practices of those mad years? Don't you fear
    for your future health?
    ADLC: No, I'm not worried. I don't looking to be seen as a saint. When
    I had to be ready I did what the others did. When I quit at the start
    of 1999 it was because I was morally not physically exhausted. I could
    easily have continued if my head had wanted to.

    Report
  2. John Forrest Tomlinson
    Archived post
    #2
    Quoted message said:

    Here is an old interview (that I'd never seen before) where Armand De
    Las Cuevas
    says that Ferrari would actually "protect" his riders by not allowing
    them to go over %52, isn't basically an admission
    that he was facilitating the doping program of riders?

    A. Anyway who thinks Ferrari doesn't help racers dope is deluding
    themselves.

    B. Riders with naturally high hematocrit might approach that number
    anyway with altitude training, so Ferrari can claim that's what he's
    talking about.

    Quoted message said:

    Then the second
    quote DLC admits to using drugs: "I did what the others did"
    I've never seen any of this before. He wasn't a minor rider either, you
    would think this would have made more of a stir in the cycling world.

    The "cycling world" knows doping is rampant so it's not a big deal
    there. It's only doping if the rider is caught. If he passes the
    tests, it can't be doping right?

    JT

    ****************************
    Remove "remove" to reply
    Visit http://www.jt10000.com
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  3. B. Lafferty
    Archived post
    #3

    "John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The "cycling world" knows doping is rampant so it's not a big deal
    there. It's only doping if the rider is caught. If he passes the
    tests, it can't be doping right?

    JT

    That was Virenque's position.

    Report
  4. Tom Kunich
    Archived post
    #4

    Dr. Ferrari stated BEFORE THE UCI that since they couldn't detect EPO
    that it was tantimount to forcing ALL riders to take EPO in order to
    keep up. Remember that at that time he and Dr. Ciconi were advisors to
    the UCI.

    Now, if you KNOW that your patient is going to use a certain substance
    or lose his position/job exactly what is your responsibility as a
    doctor? Do you not explain the drug in the deepest of detail so that he
    doesn't kill himself with the stuff?

    It appears to me that Dr. Ferrari has taken his Hippocratic Oath
    seriously.

    On the other hand Lafferty seems to think that Oath is about some sort
    of underwear that women talk about but never use.

    Report
  5. Tim Lines
    Archived post
    #5
    Tom Kunich said:

    Dr. Ferrari stated BEFORE THE UCI that since they couldn't detect EPO
    that it was tantimount to forcing ALL riders to take EPO in order to
    keep up. Remember that at that time he and Dr. Ciconi were advisors to
    the UCI.

    Now, if you KNOW that your patient is going to use a certain substance
    or lose his position/job exactly what is your responsibility as a
    doctor? Do you not explain the drug in the deepest of detail so that he
    doesn't kill himself with the stuff?

    It appears to me that Dr. Ferrari has taken his Hippocratic Oath
    seriously.

    On the other hand Lafferty seems to think that Oath is about some sort
    of underwear that women talk about but never use.

    Tell me more about the underwear.

    Report
  6. Tom Kunich
    Archived post
    #6

    "I don't know the details, but as I understand it, Ferrari actually
    helped riders use EPO effectively."

    How many riders died from the misuse of EPO? Especially Dutch riders?
    What responsibility would a doctor, who was pretty certain that his
    patient would use a banned product, have to his patient?

    I remember reading various people who spoke about their interactions
    with Ferrari and in every case he asked them what sort of reactions
    they were expecting. I think this was his test question to form his
    opinion on whether they would use banned substances or not and if he
    believed they might he took great care to explain in detail how to use
    the stuff properly in order to prevent an athlete killing himself from
    misuse.

    I think that we're seeing the same thing but interpretting it
    differently.

    WADA appears to be saying that Doctors should ignore their Hippocratic
    Oaths and not even mention doping with their athlete patients. I think
    that we've seen too much of the effects of that sort of
    head-in-the-sand philosophy.

    Remember that Ferrari and Ciconi were both involved with UCI and trying
    to straighten out the doping mess. At the time Ferrari was adamant that
    you shouldn't ban a substance that can't be detected because athletes
    without ethics would use the stuff and athletes with ethics would be
    forced to use it or lose their positions. There was an ethical and
    moral delima which Farrari was presenting and everyone else was
    ignoring.

    Report

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