Road Cycling · Public discussion

Interesting Ferrarri comments

Started by Chris · · Last activity · 43 posts · 4,712 views

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
Road Cycling
Published
11 September 2003
Last activity
16 September 2003
Original author
Chris
Posts
43
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
4,712
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–20 of 43
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. I pulled this from the Ferrari diary. I found it most interesting, as
    Dr. Ferrari seems to be claiming Petacchi achieved what no research study has yet to even
    suggest thus far:

    "It is rather unsurprising that Alessandro Petacchi, the most explosive and uncontrollable rider in
    sprints so far, suffers so much as soon as the road goes uphill, even though he proudly defended
    himself whenever climbing in the past racing seasons.

    The great enhancement of Petacchi's sprinting abilities has come out exactly at the same time of his
    worsening of climbing qualities. In fact he has been able to transform part of his 'intermediate'
    muscle fibers into fast twitch ones, improving his sprint to the detriment of his aerobic power."

    While it is possible to train your fast twitch fibers to be "more aerobic", I can find nothing to
    support Ferrari's anecdotes; is he saying Pettachi barely rides over an hour and just does short
    sprint training? Even sprint track riders don't ascribe to this method. So what kind of training
    could have caused such a conversion? Maybe it was orange juice.

    This reminds of Patani's physiologist/Doctor who claimed that Pantani actually increased his RBC
    count when he trained making him the only known human to be able to do so.

    Just thought I'd throw this out there.

    Chris Harnish

  2. "chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I pulled this from the Ferrari diary. I found it most interesting, as
    Dr. Ferrari seems to be claiming Petacchi achieved what no research study has yet to even suggest
    thus far:

    "It is rather unsurprising that Alessandro Petacchi, the most explosive and uncontrollable rider
    in sprints so far, suffers so much as soon as the road goes uphill, even though he proudly
    defended himself whenever climbing in the past racing seasons.

    The great enhancement of Petacchi's sprinting abilities has come out exactly at the same time of
    his worsening of climbing qualities. In fact he has been able to transform part of his
    'intermediate' muscle fibers into fast twitch ones, improving his sprint to the detriment of his
    aerobic power."

    While it is possible to train your fast twitch fibers to be "more aerobic", I can find nothing to
    support Ferrari's anecdotes; is he saying Pettachi barely rides over an hour and just does short
    sprint training? Even sprint track riders don't ascribe to this method. So what kind of training
    could have caused such a conversion? Maybe it was orange juice.

    This reminds of Patani's physiologist/Doctor who claimed that Pantani actually increased his RBC
    count when he trained making him the only known human to be able to do so.

    Just thought I'd throw this out there.

    Chris Harnish

    What I would take away from that is that his training has been focused on enhancing fast twitch
    performance to the detriment of his aerobic performance. Whether there are any changes to the ratios
    of muscle fiber types is not especially relevant IMO, but that appears to be what he is saying.

  3. If I were 6 feet tall (which I am), and weighed 154 pounds (which I do, and then some,
    unfortunately), I think I could climb the tough climbs, even if not very fast.

    Those are the figures that OLN showed for Petacchi during the Vuelta broadcasts this week.

    I really find it more amazing that he is such a fast sprinter at that height / weight. Wonder where
    the power comes from? He seems noticeably slimmer than Cipo.

  4. chris said:

    This reminds of Patani's physiologist/Doctor who claimed that Pantani actually increased his RBC
    count when he trained making him the only known human to be able to do so.

    Eddie B writes (in 1983) of Alexei Grewal regarding altitude training: "...Alexei developed the
    theoretical maximum number of red blood cells in his body..."

    Regards, STF

  5. "Colin Campbell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    If I were 6 feet tall (which I am), and weighed 154 pounds (which I do, and then some,
    unfortunately), I think I could climb the tough climbs, even if not very fast.

    Those are the figures that OLN showed for Petacchi during the Vuelta broadcasts this week.

    I really find it more amazing that he is such a fast sprinter at that


    height

    Quoted message said:

    / weight. Wonder where the power comes from? He seems noticeably slimmer than Cipo.

    BMI calculator.

    nhlbisupport.combminojs.htm

    Pettachi's BMI is 20.9.

    Cipo's is 21.2.

    That lends credence to what I know empirically and what other low BMIers have told me: when the
    weight is low, everything goes better, even sprinting.

  6. "chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I pulled this from the Ferrari diary. I found it most interesting, as
    Dr. Ferrari seems to be claiming Petacchi achieved what no research study has yet to even suggest
    thus far:

    "It is rather unsurprising that Alessandro Petacchi, the most explosive and uncontrollable rider
    in sprints so far, suffers so much as soon as the road goes uphill, even though he proudly
    defended himself whenever climbing in the past racing seasons.

    The great enhancement of Petacchi's sprinting abilities has come out exactly at the same time of
    his worsening of climbing qualities. In fact he has been able to transform part of his
    'intermediate' muscle fibers into fast twitch ones, improving his sprint to the detriment of his
    aerobic power."

    While it is possible to train your fast twitch fibers to be "more aerobic", I can find nothing to
    support Ferrari's anecdotes; is he saying Pettachi barely rides over an hour and just does short
    sprint training?

    That can't possibly be right. Not only would it destroy all those newly-formed capillaries, it would
    upset his delicate CNS balance.

    Andy Coggan

  7. In article <[email hidden]>, Nick Burns

    Quoted message said:

    "chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I pulled this from the Ferrari diary. I found it most interesting, as
    Dr. Ferrari seems to be claiming Petacchi achieved what no research study has yet to even
    suggest thus far:

    "It is rather unsurprising that Alessandro Petacchi, the most explosive and uncontrollable rider
    in sprints so far, suffers so much as soon as the road goes uphill, even though he proudly
    defended himself whenever climbing in the past racing seasons.

    The great enhancement of Petacchi's sprinting abilities has come out exactly at the same time of
    his worsening of climbing qualities. In fact he has been able to transform part of his
    'intermediate' muscle fibers into fast twitch ones, improving his sprint to the detriment of his
    aerobic power."

    While it is possible to train your fast twitch fibers to be "more aerobic", I can find nothing
    to support Ferrari's anecdotes; is he saying Pettachi barely rides over an hour and just does
    short sprint training? Even sprint track riders don't ascribe to this method. So what kind of
    training could have caused such a conversion? Maybe it was orange juice.

    This reminds of Patani's physiologist/Doctor who claimed that Pantani actually increased his RBC
    count when he trained making him the only known human to be able to do so.

    Just thought I'd throw this out there.

    Chris Harnish

    What I would take away from that is that his training has been focused on enhancing fast
    twitch performance to the detriment of his aerobic performance. Whether there are any changes
    to the ratios of muscle fiber types is not especially relevant IMO, but that appears to be
    what he is saying.

    Ya, and maybe there was some liberty taken in the translation. "Intermediate fibers" are sometimes
    known as Fast Oxidative Glycolitic, so saying that he was "transforming" FOG into "fast twitch"
    sounds like somebody misinterpreted what was said. Or maybe Ferrari knows something that hasn't been
    published. It could happen. Still, interesting comments.

    -WG

  8. "Stewart Fleming" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1063324486.431001@ns...

    Quoted message said:
    chris said:

    This reminds of Patani's physiologist/Doctor who claimed that Pantani actually increased his RBC
    count when he trained making him the only known human to be able to do so.

    Eddie B writes (in 1983) of Alexei Grewal regarding altitude training: "...Alexei developed the
    theoretical maximum number of red blood cells in his body..."

    Regards, STF

    I have an even better one from Eddie B. He used to claim that your rear wheel should be very
    light to assist acceleration. The front wheel is not as important in a rear drive vehicle
    (according to Eddie).

  9. Quoted message said:

    Ya, and maybe there was some liberty taken in the translation.

    I'm going to go with this thought...

  10. "warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Nick Burns

    Quoted message said:

    "chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I pulled this from the Ferrari diary. I found it most interesting, as
    Dr. Ferrari seems to be claiming Petacchi achieved what no research study has yet to even
    suggest thus far:

    "It is rather unsurprising that Alessandro Petacchi, the most explosive and uncontrollable
    rider in sprints so far, suffers so much as soon as the road goes uphill, even though he
    proudly defended himself whenever climbing in the past racing seasons.

    The great enhancement of Petacchi's sprinting abilities has come out exactly at the same time
    of his worsening of climbing qualities. In fact he has been able to transform part of his
    'intermediate' muscle fibers into fast twitch ones, improving his sprint to the detriment of
    his aerobic power."

    While it is possible to train your fast twitch fibers to be "more aerobic", I can find nothing
    to support Ferrari's anecdotes; is he saying Pettachi barely rides over an hour and just does
    short sprint training? Even sprint track riders don't ascribe to this method. So what kind of
    training could have caused such a conversion? Maybe it was orange juice.

    This reminds of Patani's physiologist/Doctor who claimed that Pantani actually increased his
    RBC count when he trained making him the only known human to be able to do so.

    Just thought I'd throw this out there.

    Chris Harnish

    What I would take away from that is that his training has been focused


    on

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    enhancing fast twitch performance to the detriment of his aerobic performance. Whether there are
    any changes to the ratios of muscle fiber types is not especially relevant IMO, but that appears
    to be what he is saying.

    Ya, and maybe there was some liberty taken in the translation. "Intermediate fibers" are sometimes
    known as Fast Oxidative Glycolitic, so saying that he was "transforming" FOG into "fast twitch"
    sounds like somebody misinterpreted what was said. Or maybe Ferrari knows something that hasn't
    been published. It could happen.

    Dream on. The only way to convert type IIa fibers into type IIb(x) is to eliminate all nervous input
    - IOW, become a parapalegic.

    Andy Coggan

  11. Nick Burns said:

    I have an even better one from Eddie B. He used to claim that your rear wheel should be very
    light to assist acceleration. The front wheel is not as important in a rear drive vehicle
    (according to Eddie).

    If this is correct, then it would seem to be extremely important to put the helium in the rear tube
    ONLY rather than in both...

  12. "Stewart Fleming" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1063332422.748207@ns...

    Quoted message said:
    Nick Burns said:

    I have an even better one from Eddie B. He used to claim that your rear wheel should be very
    light to assist acceleration. The front wheel is


    not as

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    important in a rear drive vehicle (according to Eddie).

    If this is correct, then it would seem to be extremely important to put the helium in the rear
    tube ONLY rather than in both...

    Oh yeah, you could come up with all kinds of zany rituals from this one bit of logical error.

  13. In article <[email hidden]>, Nick Burns

    Quoted message said:

    "Stewart Fleming" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1063332422.748207@ns...

    Quoted message said:
    Nick Burns said:

    I have an even better one from Eddie B. He used to claim that your rear wheel should be very
    light to assist acceleration. The front wheel is


    not as

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    important in a rear drive vehicle (according to Eddie).

    If this is correct, then it would seem to be extremely important to put the helium in the rear
    tube ONLY rather than in both...

    Oh yeah, you could come up with all kinds of zany rituals from this one bit of logical error.

    He's referring to Eddy B's use of helium in some track racers' tires at some big event one year.
    Carl probably talked him into it.

    -WG

  14. "warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:

    He's referring to Eddy B's use of helium in some track racers' tires at some big event one year.
    Carl probably talked him into it.

    -WG

    OK. I get it.

  15. "Nick Burns" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I have an even better one from Eddie B. He used to claim that your rear wheel should be very light
    to assist acceleration. The front wheel is not


    as

    Quoted message said:

    important in a rear drive vehicle (according to Eddie).

    They'd be equally important unless there's some sort of extra motion in the rear wheel due to tire
    deformation.

  16. "Colin Campbell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    If I were 6 feet tall (which I am), and weighed 154 pounds (which I do, and then some,
    unfortunately), I think I could climb the tough climbs, even if not very fast.

    Those are the figures that OLN showed for Petacchi during the Vuelta broadcasts this week.

    I really find it more amazing that he is such a fast sprinter at that height / weight. Wonder
    where the power comes from? He seems noticeably slimmer than Cipo.

    Robbie McEwen is even smaller at 171 cm and 66 kg (5'7" and , and 154 lb.) and Angel Vicioso is
    positively tiny, even smaller than a lot of those gnat-like Spanish climbers at 169 cm and 56 km
    (5'6" and 123 lb).

    -Sonarrat.

  17. It's more to do with the make up of your muscle fibres and the ratio of fast to slow twitch fibres
    than it is your height and weight. Sprinters, be they big (Cipo, P)etacchi) or small (McEwen) have
    lots of fast twitch fibres and so can produce incredible bursts of speed. Climbers tend to have more
    slow twitch fibres and so are built for endurance and those long days in the mountains.

    Colin Campbell said:

    If I were 6 feet tall (which I am), and weighed 154 pounds (which I do, and then some,
    unfortunately), I think I could climb the tough climbs, even if not very fast.

    Those are the figures that OLN showed for Petacchi during the Vuelta broadcasts this week.

    I really find it more amazing that he is such a fast sprinter at that height / weight. Wonder where
    the power comes from? He seems noticeably slimmer than Cipo.

  18. Sonarrat said:

    Robbie McEwen is even smaller at 171 cm and 66 kg

    He's smaller and heavier than I, and he climbs like [censored] in the pro peloton. Still, I fear he will
    have no problem outclimbing me.

    And on top of that, the loaf of bread I just bought is not sliced, doh!

  19. "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Nick Burns" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I have an even better one from Eddie B. He used to claim that your rear wheel should be very
    light to assist acceleration. The front wheel is


    not

    Quoted message said:

    as

    Quoted message said:

    important in a rear drive vehicle (according to Eddie).

    They'd be equally important unless there's some sort of extra motion in


    the

    Quoted message said:

    rear wheel due to tire deformation.

    Really?

    Why do you think I gave it as an example?

  20. "Allen Foster" <bigal@REMOVE_THISnewtownbreda.demANDTHISon.co.uk> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    It's more to do with the make up of your muscle fibres and the ratio of fast to slow twitch fibres
    than it is your height and weight. Sprinters, be they big (Cipo, P)etacchi) or small (McEwen) have
    lots of fast twitch fibres and so can produce incredible bursts of speed. Climbers tend to have
    more slow twitch fibres and so are built for endurance and those long days in the mountains.

    Actually, it has to do with both (muscle size and muscle contractile properties). That's why true
    sprinters - who would eat people like Cipollini for lunch - are both big (often ~100 kg) AND
    explosive (on the fast twitch side).

    Andy Coggan

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.