Interesting bikes at the Target website.

landotter said:

Not the place I'd get a bike, but if you live in Fife Alabama or
Podunk Arkansas and your community consists of a fry joint and a Wally
World, your choices are getting better.

Now I don't live either place, but IF I did, and I was not currently a
cyclist, I think I might make the trip to a village that HAD a real bike
shop, just to see what they had to offer versus the x-marts.

Ken

landotter said:

Not the place I'd get a bike, but if you live in Fife Alabama or
Podunk Arkansas and your community consists of a fry joint and a Wally
World, your choices are getting better.

For some people, the Mart's under 100 dollar offering sets a price in
their minds. They don't know enough about it to know the difference
between a $100 bike at a store like that and a real entry level bike at
a local shop for a few hundred more. There's not a lot you can do about
it except try to give them better information without sounding like a
bike snob.

landotter said:

I sometimes waste a few minutes on the Target or Wally World websites
looking at bikes, as it's a mainstream place to look at trends.
Today's browse saw some pretty fun and funky beach cruisers, which are
a good buy at such a place if you want a real a beater for campus or
something similar.

Saw a couple pretty practical looking bike shaped objects, one was a
pretty normal trekking bike:

http://tinyurl.com/2n5sgo

Hmm, is that a dynamo headlight on there?

Not much information on the bicycle. I looked at a bigger picture of it
but I couldn't read the name.

Quoted message said:

And a "Cadillac" bike (giggle), with an SA 8 speed hub and drum
brakes!:

http://tinyurl.com/39h4gh

Woohoo! Back rest!

Oh my, looks like another innovation from Taiwan.

Just A User said:

landotter said:

Not the place I'd get a bike, but if you live in Fife Alabama or
Podunk Arkansas and your community consists of a fry joint and a Wally
World, your choices are getting better.

Now I don't live either place, but IF I did, and I was not currently a
cyclist, I think I might make the trip to a village that HAD a real bike
shop, just to see what they had to offer versus the x-marts.

Thing is, most folks wouldn't. They'd get up on a Saturday, and it'd
be 80 and sunny, and they'd think, "hey, let's get us some bikes!" A
lot of folks that aren't into cycling don't understand the vast
quality differences between a $80 bikes and a $350 model. What Wally
World and others are now selling are a lot of $200 bikes that'll last
a good long while. They'll be heavy, but they'll work. Actually, the 7
speed systems on such things are often super reliable, as it's such
established tech. Yeah, they might be better off going to a bike shop,
but a lot of folks wouldn't know to, so I'm glad that the evil giant
is offering something better than absolute [censored].

SMS said:

landotter said:

I sometimes waste a few minutes on the Target or Wally World websites
looking at bikes, as it's a mainstream place to look at trends.
Today's browse saw some pretty fun and funky beach cruisers, which are
a good buy at such a place if you want a real a beater for campus or
something similar.

Quoted message said:

Saw a couple pretty practical looking bike shaped objects, one was a
pretty normal trekking bike:

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/2n5sgo

Hmm, is that a dynamo headlight on there?

Probably a frighteningly awful bottle dynamo! Likely cheaper than
sourcing an LED front light.

Quoted message said:

Not much information on the bicycle. I looked at a bigger picture of it
but I couldn't read the name.

Quoted message said:

And a "Cadillac" bike (giggle), with an SA 8 speed hub and drum
brakes!:

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/39h4gh

Quoted message said:

Woohoo! Back rest!

Oh my, looks like another innovation from Taiwan.

Be the first on your block with velo-lumbar action! I wonder if it's
got a coin slot and vibrates?

landotter said:

Thing is, most folks wouldn't. They'd get up on a Saturday, and it'd
be 80 and sunny, and they'd think, "hey, let's get us some bikes!"

The problem is that these slightly better bicycles are usually not sold
in the stores, they are usually on-line only, at least for Target,
Wal-Mart, and Costco. The models sold in stores are the lowest end.

I've often listened to a good bicycle sales person at a shop, and they
can explain the difference between a department store bicycle and what
they sell, without insulting the customer. With the expectation that a
bicycle should cost somewhere around the $60 that Target sells their
lowest end bikes for, it's a tough sell explaining why someone should be
spending $300 or more.

SMS said:

landotter said:

Thing is, most folks wouldn't. They'd get up on a Saturday, and it'd
be 80 and sunny, and they'd think, "hey, let's get us some bikes!"

The problem is that these slightly better bicycles are usually not sold
in the stores, they are usually on-line only, at least for Target,
Wal-Mart, and Costco. The models sold in stores are the lowest end.

Both my local Target and Walmart sell so called "comfort" bikes for
around $150. They're good enough that when they break, people can take
them to a bike shop to be fixed with normal parts, as opposed to the
$80 models, that I've seen folks bring into shops with horrific faults
that would cost way more than it's worth to fix. The bikes have
provisions for racks and fenders, so for $200 somebody can build an OK
commuter. The quality level is the same as what I've seen on entry
level city bikes in Sweden. The drivetrains are just fine, but they
gimp out on frame welds, stem, bars, post and other places where you
can stick some steel and it won't matter except for the weight.

Certainly I'd rather people visit a bike collective and make a bike
from hemp, but not everybody's got such resources.

"landotter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Thing is, most folks wouldn't. They'd get up on a Saturday, and it'd
be 80 and sunny, and they'd think, "hey, let's get us some bikes!" A
lot of folks that aren't into cycling don't understand the vast
quality differences between a $80 bikes and a $350 model. What Wally
World and others are now selling are a lot of $200 bikes that'll last
a good long while. They'll be heavy, but they'll work. Actually, the 7
speed systems on such things are often super reliable, as it's such
established tech. Yeah, they might be better off going to a bike shop,
but a lot of folks wouldn't know to, so I'm glad that the evil giant
is offering something better than absolute [censored].

A lot of these bikes are bought because bike stores don't do their job very
well. My first bike was a Department Store Bike, I looked at them
Department Store = about $150, Bike Shop = $400+, no one took time to
explain fit, components, service, etc. They did say it has Shimano "this
and that", but not knowing a thing about "this and that", it didn't mean a
thing to me. The Department Store Bike also had Shimano "this and that",
only poorer quality. Results I had a 35lb bike, the nice chrome plated
handle bar rusted in the first year, the brakes & steel wheels would not
work when they got wet, cables corroded the first to a point where it would
not shift.

catzz66 said:

For some people, the Mart's under 100 dollar offering sets a price in
their minds. They don't know enough about it to know the difference
between a $100 bike at a store like that and a real entry level bike at
a local shop for a few hundred more. There's not a lot you can do about
it except try to give them better information without sounding like a
bike snob.

I have noticed this, passing through Wal-Mart getting other things--that
the bikes they sell LOOK right. They're still heavy and likely POS's,
but if you look at them, they /appear/ about the same as what the LBS's
sell. They don't LOOK considerably lower-quality, unless you know the
details to look for.

In the past I know (a few years back) the bearings on low-end W-M bikes
were usually very poor, low-quality, and without even so much as dust
covers so they wouldn't hold grease at all (even bottom brackets on
BMX/MTB's!).
--------
I will gently try to explain the advantages of a better-quality item,
but even so I know of far more (US)people who take their bicycles out of
the garage once or twice a year than people who take them out even once
a month....

....So then the question becomes--if the Wal-Mart bikes are built like
[censored], but the typical customer /never/ manages to wear the thing out
anyway,,, what's the argument left against buying it???
I don't know.
I don't know how to get anyone interested in riding who doesn't want
to.... -but if they're not interested in riding much, then most all the
arguments for buying a quality bike are rather moot anyway.
~

I ride Huffys 8,000 miles a year, and they do fine. Generally I'll
replace the BB 3 or 4 times (Huffy sells parts too), and the usual
chainwheel, freewheel and chain swaps; and the bike lasts about 50k
miles before enough parts need fixing _at the same time_ so that it's
cheaper to buy a whole new bike than replace them one by one.

I usually carry a pretty heavy load on them on the way home and the
(MTB) wheels stay true the whole time. No wheel bearing problems
whatsoever. The only bearing needing attention is the BB, from
regular wear. Just pop out the races and put in new races and
whatever goes in there (Ashtabula crank or cotterless spindle,
depending on model).

I understand it's popular to talk the mart bikes down, but they
really do work.
--
Ron Hardin
[email hidden]

On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

landotter said:

I sometimes waste a few minutes on the Target or Wally World websites
looking at bikes, as it's a mainstream place to look at trends.
Today's browse saw some pretty fun and funky beach cruisers, which are
a good buy at such a place if you want a real a beater for campus or
something similar.

Saw a couple pretty practical looking bike shaped objects, one was a
pretty normal trekking bike:

http://tinyurl.com/2n5sgo

And a "Cadillac" bike (giggle), with an SA 8 speed hub and drum
brakes!:

http://tinyurl.com/39h4gh

Woohoo! Back rest!

The Wally World site even suggests that we can use their road bike
series for commuting, and not just hanging in the garage! How
unamerican is that? That Schwinn "Varsity" they're selling looks like
it could actually be ridable, compared to the $79 turds they've been
pushing for years.

Howz 'bout this:

http://tinyurl.com/yqo2kp

(or, for nervous nellies🙂

http://preview.tinyurl.com/yqo2kp

Under 300 bucks, comes in three sizes (with different frame angles and
different length stems in the different sizes!!!!), aluminum rims,
stem and seat post, 700x25 tires. Weight is speced at 26lbs.

Not as good a value as can be had from some online bicycle sources,
but really not bad for $298, even if ya spend ~$50 to have it put
together properly.

(Not too sure what "comfort suspension fork" means in this case.....a
suspension fork on a drop bar bikes seems a bit odd. Can't tell from
the pics)

Quoted message said:

Not the place I'd get a bike, but if you live in Fife Alabama or
Podunk Arkansas and your community consists of a fry joint and a Wally
World, your choices are getting better.

Ozark Bicycle said:

landotter said:

I sometimes waste a few minutes on the Target or Wally World websites
looking at bikes, as it's a mainstream place to look at trends.
Today's browse saw some pretty fun and funky beach cruisers, which are
a good buy at such a place if you want a real a beater for campus or
something similar.

Quoted message said:

Saw a couple pretty practical looking bike shaped objects, one was a
pretty normal trekking bike:

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/2n5sgo

Quoted message said:

And a "Cadillac" bike (giggle), with an SA 8 speed hub and drum
brakes!:

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/39h4gh

Quoted message said:

Woohoo! Back rest!

Quoted message said:

The Wally World site even suggests that we can use their road bike
series for commuting, and not just hanging in the garage! How
unamerican is that? That Schwinn "Varsity" they're selling looks like
it could actually be ridable, compared to the $79 turds they've been
pushing for years.

Howz 'bout this:

http://tinyurl.com/yqo2kp

(or, for nervous nellies🙂

http://preview.tinyurl.com/yqo2kp

Under 300 bucks, comes in three sizes (with different frame angles and
different length stems in the different sizes!!!!), aluminum rims,
stem and seat post, 700x25 tires. Weight is speced at 26lbs.

Not as good a value as can be had from some online bicycle sources,
but really not bad for $298, even if ya spend ~$50 to have it put
together properly.

I've helped neighbors get such reasonable quality bikes back on the
road for hucking around the neighborhood. Once you mitigate some
issues such as brake blocks and bearings, they're quite good utility
vehicles. I did up my neighbor's similarly specced mtb this winter
with a budget of a hundred bucks. I turned it into a "hybrid" with
slicks, fenders and a stern to stem overhaul. TBH, riding it, if you
didn't look down, you'd not know that it was a pretty cheap bike.
Yeah, I had to align the rear mech hanger with a big wrench and some
other such crudities, but when done, it shifted flawlessly, stopped on
a dime with great modulation and had a rather sophisticated new ride
due to decent tires. Again, if you didn't look down, it felt like it
could have cost five bills, a grand, or whatever. The crux was that
there was enough quality there in the first place to make a little
buffing worth while.

I don't endorse Wally World as a bike source if you can avoid it, but
it's cool that America's most hated retailer has reasonable options
when you have [cue thunder]NO OTHER CHOICE[/thunder].

Hey, if such a ludicrously named bike get's our futureTDF champ riding
somewhere in the bumps of Iowa, I'm game.

Ron Hardin said:

I understand it's popular to talk the mart bikes down, but they
really do work.

That's sort of what this post is slyly about. I remember being a kiddo
in the late 70s to the 80s and department store bike were just odious
[censored]. I remember finally making enough money in '87 at my job in a
Thai restaurant while I was in high school so that I could buy a
decent ride--a Shogun Prairie Breaker!! Which I traded within the year
for a Peugeot, and then I bought that Shimano 600 dérailleur from
under the glass at the bike shop. Later, after coming back from
working in Europe, I got my Trek 1200 with the glued aluminum frame
then a couple years of darkness, then resumed the habit...

point is that decent cheap price point bikes cant get folks into the
sport.

landotter said:

Saw a couple pretty practical looking bike shaped objects, one was a
pretty normal trekking bike:

http://tinyurl.com/2n5sgo

And a "Cadillac" bike (giggle), with an SA 8 speed hub and drum
brakes!:

http://tinyurl.com/39h4gh

In some areas it wouldn't pay to spend over $150 on a commuter bike
if you've no secure parking at your work place.

I'd take the wheels off the Cadillac and put them on the other bike
and maybe have a half decent all weather commuter once I got rid of
that phoney fork.

As it is, it represents a departure from the standard offering of
bikes imitating sporting machines or casual beach cruisers. I think
it's fair to say that "city bikes" have finally arrived on mainstream
America's radar.
--
zk

Ozark Bicycle said:

landotter said:

I sometimes waste a few minutes on the Target or Wally World websites
looking at bikes, as it's a mainstream place to look at trends.
Today's browse saw some pretty fun and funky beach cruisers, which are
a good buy at such a place if you want a real a beater for campus or
something similar.

Quoted message said:

Saw a couple pretty practical looking bike shaped objects, one was a
pretty normal trekking bike:

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/2n5sgo

Quoted message said:

And a "Cadillac" bike (giggle), with an SA 8 speed hub and drum
brakes!:

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/39h4gh

Quoted message said:

Woohoo! Back rest!

Quoted message said:

The Wally World site even suggests that we can use their road bike
series for commuting, and not just hanging in the garage! How
unamerican is that? That Schwinn "Varsity" they're selling looks like
it could actually be ridable, compared to the $79 turds they've been
pushing for years.

Howz 'bout this:

http://tinyurl.com/yqo2kp

(or, for nervous nellies🙂

http://preview.tinyurl.com/yqo2kp

Under 300 bucks, comes in three sizes (with different frame angles and
different length stems in the different sizes!!!!), aluminum rims,
stem and seat post, 700x25 tires. Weight is speced at 26lbs.

Not as good a value as can be had from some online bicycle sources,
but really not bad for $298, even if ya spend ~$50 to have it put
together properly.

So figure somewhere between 2400 and 2800rmb.

Now consider -
Last year's road bike was all Shimano Sora (drivetrain, brifters,
hubs) on a Giant aluminum frame with a Giant aluminum fork and ran me
3000rmb.
The next step down had a different wheelset with unnamed hubs and a
steel fork for 2000rmb.
The step below that was where it went to downtube shifters, SIS, leech
brakes, and joytech hubs for 1500rmb.

The only stuff here with Tourney on it are the actual touring bikes
which have full fenders, front and rear racks, mild suspension forks,
butterfly bars, dynamo hubs, big wide 700C tires and big sproingy
saddles.

-M

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

point is that decent cheap price point bikes can't get folks into the sport. <<

Granted, it might not get them into the "sport" of riding, but if it
gets their fat [censored] on a bike, like they did mine, then there's some
merit to them. Not much, but a little. My first few bikes were
department store bikes, and from them came a 30+ year love of riding.
I'll never be talked about in the same breath as Lance or Floyd, but
that's not important. As I saw it so plainly stated on another forum
not too long ago..."If you are getting what you want to get out of
your bike, then you are doing okay."

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

point is that decent cheap price point bikes can't get folks into the sport. <<

Granted, it might not get them into the "sport" of riding, but if it
gets their fat [censored] on a bike, like they did mine, then there's some
merit to them. Not much, but a little. My first few bikes were
department store bikes, and from them came a 30+ year love of riding.
I'll never be talked about in the same breath as Lance or Floyd, but
that's not important. As I saw it so plainly stated on another forum
not too long ago..."If you are getting what you want to get out of
your bike, then you are doing okay."

"SMS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The problem is that these slightly better bicycles are usually not sold in
the stores, they are usually on-line only, at least for Target, Wal-Mart,
and Costco. The models sold in stores are the lowest end.

If that's the case, then I'd buy mail-order from REI instead.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

landotter said:

Ron Hardin said:

I understand it's popular to talk the mart bikes down, but they
really do work.

That's sort of what this post is slyly about.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

point is that decent cheap price point bikes cant get folks into the
sport.

I agree completely - to get someone out on a bike, first you need to
get them out on *any" bike - the refinements can come later.

However, sometimes I imagine people buy one of the $50-$150 wonders,
and are put off cause it's:
heavy (made of depleted uranium, [censored] f+r suspension)
noisy ([censored] f+r suspension, badly set up etc)
slow (cause it's heavy and has tires like a farm tractor)
doesn't work well (too complicated for purpose, badly set up)
is always broken (bit's that aren't made ofr uranium are made of
cheese).

....and give up the whole cycling thing as a bad idea.
It's kind of circular. I suppose the bikes you list are a bit closer
to what might suit occasional cyclists.
To my mind, they should:
use hub gears (Nexus 8 speed?),
use roller or cantilever/v- brakes (not disks! at this price,
mechanical disks are awful)
no suspension (ditto as per disk brakes, hard to do right on a budget)
include fenders and a rack
upright riding position

You might also include dynamo lights, including standlights.

There's nothing there (bar the cantilever brakes and standlights,
which are refinements rather than radical changes) that wasn't readily
available in (say) 1950. So much for progress :-)

regards,

bookieb