Interactive bike commuting map

(Anton S.) said:

Has anyone seen or heard of a web based interactive commuting map, where you choose your start and
endpoints and it figures out the best route based off of traffic flow, elevation, road condition,
etc ? Or anything even close to this description?

No, but I've considered trying to start a project to make a program to do that. I imagine a program
similar to MS Streets & Trips (or similar to mapquest/mapsonus/etc), with the addition of a few
minor options that can make good bicycle routes.

However, MS Streets & Trips is pretty good for biking, actually -- you just have to massage the
routes it makes. First, change the settings for avg speed on different types of roads -- make
interstates get 1mph and backroads get 99mph. Then, when you make a route, look at the result, and
for each road you'd prefer to take over another one, add a stop on that road; it will be forced to
route you through that road. In a few minutes, you have a good route.

It would be easier with a program for bicycle routes, though. Are there any open source map/route
program projects in existence? We could certainly work off of that.

Quoted message said:

Anton

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"Anton S." <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Has anyone seen or heard of a web based interactive commuting map, where you choose your start and
endpoints and it figures out the best route based off of traffic flow, elevation, road condition,
etc ? Or anything even close to this description?

I've seen comments as to the need, but I know from experience that it's HUGE project, even for a
small city, much less the entire USA ?.

Many cities have planning groups, often including cyclists that develop cycling maps (often
available on-line in PDF format). NYC is typical, as are the surrounding suburbs, all have which
bike maps. These don't attempt to show the suitability of every road, but usually have a good
selection that allow a reasonable route to be selected.

But computer generated ?. Not likely. I've never had any luck with the on-line stuff and even my own
mapping software from Garmin leaves a lot to be desired. I have yet to find any kind of data base
that includes all the required data that would allow a computer to make the correct choices. Much of
the requisite info. is in government data bases, but used for different purposes and is generally
not in a suitable format to give you the information needed to make correct choices. Other info.
seems to be scattered amongst the assorted for-profit mapping companies that are mostly proprietary
and don't allow sharing of info.

I've also found it necessary to field check any computer generated routes as the databases often
have major errors in street signage and the actual condition and suitability (for bikes) at
intersections, that may look just fine on a map, but in real life are not a good choice, thus the
need to read the map, then go ride it, in both directions.

My $.02

Steve B.

Steve said:

Many cities have planning groups, often including cyclists that develop cycling maps (often
available on-line in PDF format). NYC is typical, as are the surrounding suburbs, all have which
bike maps.

This is needed for Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky.

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Quoted message said:

Has anyone seen or heard of a web based interactive commuting map, where you choose your start and
endpoints and it figures out the best route based off of traffic flow, elevation, road condition,
etc ? Or anything even close to this description?

No. As I see it a commute, by definition, is a trip between two fixed points that happens, like,
daily. It shouldn't take more than a small number of trials to determine an optimal route based on
the available infrastructure and the individual rider's skill level and risk tolerance.

It would be nearly impossible to build the kind of database you suggest, I think, because commuting
is not just about terrain and traffic. Those are important, but what kind of program could
incorporate the sorts of information that are of primary concern? In other words local knowledge.

There are routes that look great "on paper" but which actually suck in reality, and vice versa.

If I were to move to a new area, I'd be inclined to ask the locals for advice, or at least observe
them in operation, to determine what is or is not the best route.

The various mapping applications are fine, if you assume a motor vehicle is part of the equation,
but the world is a different place on a bicycle.

I like to think it's a better place.

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Quoted message said:

Steve said:

Many cities have planning groups, often including cyclists that develop cycling maps (often
available on-line in PDF format). NYC is typical, as are the surrounding suburbs, all have which
bike maps.

This is needed for Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky.

You then need to work with your local planning department to develop one. In our suburban
jurisdiction, a group of cyclists, formalized as a part of the Pedestrian-Bicycle Advisory Group
worked out the bicycle system for the city. Each link is rated as primary, secondary, or tertiary.

When any road improvement happens on an identified bike route, bicycles need to be taken into
consideration in the design, at least in theory. (We won't talk about the recent bungling of the
intersection of the Lake Hills Connector and Richard's Road.) Improvements to major bike routes are
brought to the Advisory Group for suggestions and comment.

The bicycle network for the city is routinely evaluated not only by the number of miles "completed"
but also how much it is connected to other completed miles.

If you need more information about how this could work for your town, please don't hesitate to
contact me. I'm the current chair of our Advisory Group.

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Quoted message said:

No. As I see it a commute, by definition, is a trip between two fixed points that happens, like,
daily. It shouldn't take more than a small number of trials to determine an optimal route based on
the available infrastructure and the individual rider's skill level and risk tolerance.

I've found it takes a lot of map examination and much exploring to find the optimal route, probably
months... unless of course the commute is really short or there are few possible routes.

Quoted message said:

It would be nearly impossible to build the kind of database you suggest, I think, because
commuting is not just about terrain and traffic. Those are important, but what kind of program
could incorporate the sorts of information that are of primary concern? In other words local
knowledge.

Gosh yeah, the computer wouldn't have a chance. The data doesn't exist and perceptions of risk and
comfort in traffic are as similar as night and day.

Doug Toronto

"Anton S." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Has anyone seen or heard of a web based interactive commuting map, where you choose your start and
endpoints and it figures out the best route based off of traffic flow, elevation, road condition,
etc ? Or anything even close to this description?

Anton

Define 'best'. You'd have to give values for each parameter, according to 'you'. Don't mind traffic,
but don't like hills? Shortest time or shortest distance? Or any weighted combination of the above.

MS MapPoint might be a good starting opint to build what you need.

Interfaces with GPS, and maybe you can derive elevation data. Traffic flow/density can be guessed
(often incorrectly, and changing by time of day) at by street size. Define average speed for
different types of roads. Define drivetime zone around a user defined point. n minutes from my
house. Preferred road types. (Toll/Interstate/arterial/other) Export/interface with Excel. Build and
add your own COM objects.

However....parameters such as road condition (shoulder/curb/construction) are probably only
available from the city.

Downsides: Construction data only on highways. Not free unless you get it at a convention or
something. Nor webbased (out of the box)

Pete