installin mah brakes

Nate Nagel said:

OK, I've *tried* to soak up all the knowledge I can without bugging you
guys too much, but I just recieved my new brakes today and really want
to get in at least one decent ride this weekend, so here goes.  These
are Tektro Oryx cantilevers, going on an 05 Cannondale CX with the stock
carbon fiber fork.  These should be the same model brakes that the bike
originally came with, although I assume that they may have been revised
over the past few years.

1) when I attempt to install the cantilevers on the bosses on the fork,
there is a gap of about 3/32" between the brake and the flat part of the
boss.  Is this OK?  I tried tightening it down with one of the old bolts
but it didn't move any with what I felt was a reasonable amount of
torque - in fact with the bolt tight it felt solidly mounted, just had
that unsightly gap.  Is this OK?

2) I've seen references to "toe in" when setting the pads but the
concept is still unclear to me exactly what it's referring to - does
this mean that I should set the pad so that the leading edge or front
(of the bike) surface of the pad should contact the rim slightly before
the rear?

thanks again...

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Yes and yes.

Nate Nagel said:

2) I've seen references to "toe in" when setting the pads but the
concept is still unclear to me exactly what it's referring to - does
this mean that I should set the pad so that the leading edge or front
(of the bike) surface of the pad should contact the rim slightly before
the rear?

yeah, because the force of braking will pull and twist the pad and arm
a bit. If you don't have toe in, you can get chatter and squeal. A fat
postal rubber band around the back part of the pad is a good way to
estimate the toe in when snugging things up.

landotter said:

Nate Nagel said:

2) I've seen references to "toe in" when setting the pads but the
concept is still unclear to me exactly what it's referring to - does
this mean that I should set the pad so that the leading edge or front
(of the bike) surface of the pad should contact the rim slightly before
the rear?

yeah, because the force of braking will pull and twist the pad and arm
a bit. If you don't have toe in, you can get chatter and squeal. A fat
postal rubber band around the back part of the pad is a good way to
estimate the toe in when snugging things up.

Thanks for the tip, that makes a lot of sense. Sounds easier than
trying to snug it up with the brakes released.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Nate Nagel said:

landotter said:

Nate Nagel said:

2) I've seen references to "toe in" when setting the pads but the
concept is still unclear to me exactly what it's referring to - does
this mean that I should set the pad so that the leading edge or front
(of the bike) surface of the pad should contact the rim slightly before
the rear?

yeah, because the force of braking will pull and twist the pad and arm
a bit. If you don't have toe in, you can get chatter and squeal. A fat
postal rubber band around the back part of the pad is a good way to
estimate the toe in when snugging things up.

Thanks for the tip, that makes a lot of sense. Sounds easier than
trying to snug it up with the brakes released.

nate

I just realized that i phrased my original question badly, such that I
am still confused even given your answer - which end of the pad do I
want to contact the rim first?

1) the leading edge - which would be the *rear* of the pad

or

2) the actual *front* of the pad?

or does it not really matter, just that the pad should not contact the
rim squarely?

Only reason I am making such a big deal about it was that the old pads
were worn flat and had a SEVERE squeak, and I'd like to solve several
different problems all at once here.

I may just run the bike up to LBS in the morning anyway as I need some
ferrules, adjuster barrels, etc. to make this all right and the guy may
be able to set it up quickly and inexpensively, who knows. Doesn't hurt
to ask. The LBS with all the shiny new stuff is a couple miles away,
but I have one close enough that i can even carry the bike on my
shoulder that far, and that may be the better place for this kind of
issue anyway, it's sort of a hole in the wall with all sorts of [censored] all
over the place and tons of parts bikes piled up out back.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Nate Nagel said:

Nate Nagel said:

landotter wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Apr 18, 6:00 pm, Nate Nagel <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> 2) I've seen references to "toe in" when setting the pads but the
> concept is still unclear to me exactly what it's referring to - does
> this mean that I should set the pad so that the leading edge or front
> (of the bike) surface of the pad should contact the rim slightly before
> the rear?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

yeah, because the force of braking will pull and twist the pad and arm
a bit. If you don't have toe in, you can get chatter and squeal. A fat
postal rubber band around the back part of the pad is a good way to
estimate the toe in when snugging things up.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the tip, that makes a lot of sense. Sounds easier than
trying to snug it up with the brakes released.

Quoted message said:

nate

I just realized that i phrased my original question badly, such that I
am still confused even given your answer - which end of the pad do I
want to contact the rim first?

Think about how the brake is going to be torqued--it will be pulled
forward, so the front bit needs to be a couple mm's closer. Upon hard
braking, the pads will be deformed and pulled parallel to the rim. Toe
in not only helps squeal and noise, but done properly really affects
the ability to modulate, IMO. When you've worn your pads down a bit
after a few months, you can swap them from side to side if the wear is
slightly diagonal, BTW.

Go to parktool.com for further info.

Nate Nagel said:

The LBS with all the shiny new stuff is a couple miles away,
but I have one close enough that i can even carry the bike on my
shoulder that far, and that may be the better place for this kind of
issue anyway, it's sort of a hole in the wall with all sorts of [censored] all
over the place and tons of parts bikes piled up out back.

I love shops like that. I worked at one all through high school.
Before it was a bike shop, it was a hardware store, so we still had
brass pipe fittings, a paint shaker, and I'm pretty sure we were the
only bike shop in town that could duplicate keys while you wait.

Hank said:

Nate Nagel said:

The LBS with all the shiny new stuff is a couple miles away,
but I have one close enough that i can even carry the bike on my
shoulder that far, and that may be the better place for this kind of
issue anyway, it's sort of a hole in the wall with all sorts of [censored] all
over the place and tons of parts bikes piled up out back.

I love shops like that. I worked at one all through high school.
Before it was a bike shop, it was a hardware store, so we still had
brass pipe fittings, a paint shaker, and I'm pretty sure we were the
only bike shop in town that could duplicate keys while you wait.

I didn't mean that in a bad way, I feel the same way about auto parts
stores. I hate new parts stores where the kid behind the counter only
knows how to look stuff up in a computer. Sample conversation:

Me: Do you have any Champion RJ12YCs or Autolite 437s?

Counter guy: What kind of car do you have?

Me: It's a '55 Studebaker Commander, but the engine is out of a '63 Avanti.

Counter guy: Studebaker? Who made that?

Me: (facepalm)

Give me a store with creaky wood floors and some crusty old guy smoking
a cigarette behind the counter any day.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Nate Nagel said:

Give me a store with creaky wood floors and some crusty old guy smoking
a cigarette behind the counter any day.

Was at a car dealer a few weeks ago buying brake adjusters. The kid
behind the counter did an ok job as it was pretty straight forward.
Type in my chassis number, and drill down to brake parts. Get a part-
number, get a bin number, and a price. Then a crusty old guy with a
cigarette behind his ear suggested he punch in a different year and
body style, skipping the chassis number. After the drill-down, same
part-number, same bin, different cheaper price.

I think the floor was wood, but it was hard to see it through the
grime. Cigarette man gave me a wink, and I was on my way.

Joseph

landotter said:

Nate Nagel said:

2) I've seen references to "toe in" when setting the pads but the
concept is still unclear to me exactly what it's referring to - does
this mean that I should set the pad so that the leading edge or front
(of the bike) surface of the pad should contact the rim slightly before
the rear?

yeah, because the force of braking will pull and twist the pad and arm
a bit. If you don't have toe in, you can get chatter and squeal. A fat
postal rubber band around the back part of the pad is a good way to
estimate the toe in when snugging things up.

I use skinny coins at the rear of the pad and just clamp the whole
thing against the rim with one hand, and tighten with the other. That
keeps the pads nice and square to the rim.

Joseph

Hank said:

Nate Nagel said:

The LBS with all the shiny new stuff is a couple miles away,
but I have one close enough that i can even carry the bike on my
shoulder that far, and that may be the better place for this kind of
issue anyway, it's sort of a hole in the wall with all sorts of [censored] all
over the place and tons of parts bikes piled up out back.

I love shops like that. I worked at one all through high school.
Before it was a bike shop, it was a hardware store, so we still had
brass pipe fittings, a paint shaker, and I'm pretty sure we were the
only bike shop in town that could duplicate keys while you wait.

Well I think I made the right call. Took the bike over around 11, with
all the parts in a baggie (new brakes and suicide levers) guy took one
look at the brakes and said "well, that's wrong" said $80 to fix which
seemed high but I assume that includes the "you didn't buy those new
brakes from me" tax. Just called me about 15 min. ago to let me know it
was done (it's 1:05 as I type this.) Might have to consider this my new
favorite bike shop even though my bike-riding friend prefers Performance
Cycle. I'll see what his prices are on a decent set of pedals.

Yay! I get to ride this weekend!

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Nate Nagel said:

Nate Nagel said:

landotter wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Apr 18, 6:00 pm, Nate Nagel <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> 2) I've seen references to "toe in" when setting the pads but the
> concept is still unclear to me exactly what it's referring to - does
> this mean that I should set the pad so that the leading edge or front
> (of the bike) surface of the pad should contact the rim slightly before
> the rear?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

yeah, because the force of braking will pull and twist the pad and arm
a bit. If you don't have toe in, you can get chatter and squeal. A fat
postal rubber band around the back part of the pad is a good way to
estimate the toe in when snugging things up.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the tip, that makes a lot of sense. Sounds easier than
trying to snug it up with the brakes released.

Quoted message said:

nate

I just realized that i phrased my original question badly, such that I
am still confused even given your answer - which end of the pad do I
want to contact the rim first?

1) the leading edge - which would be the *rear* of the pad

or

2) the actual *front* of the pad?

or does it not really matter, just that the pad should not contact the
rim squarely?

Yes, your initial reference to "... leading edge..." had it backwards,
although your clarification "... front
(of the bike)..." made it clear that you knew which end to toe in
(having toes are at the front end of my foot helps me remember what
this means, too :-)

The fact that you noticed this yourself (the forward end of the
caliper on a top mounted rim brake would be the trailing edge - at
least when the bike is moving forward), and the discussion of your
experience with motor cars, indicates that you're gonna be all right.

Summer's coming. Keep on riding.

Dan O said:

Nate Nagel said:

Nate Nagel said:

landotter wrote:

Quoted message said:

>On Apr 18, 6:00 pm, Nate Nagel <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

>>2) I've seen references to "toe in" when setting the pads but the
>>concept is still unclear to me exactly what it's referring to - does
>>this mean that I should set the pad so that the leading edge or front
>>(of the bike) surface of the pad should contact the rim slightly before
>>the rear?

Quoted message said:

>yeah, because the force of braking will pull and twist the pad and arm
>a bit. If you don't have toe in, you can get chatter and squeal. A fat
>postal rubber band around the back part of the pad is a good way to
>estimate the toe in when snugging things up.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the tip, that makes a lot of sense. Sounds easier than
trying to snug it up with the brakes released.

Quoted message said:

nate

I just realized that i phrased my original question badly, such that I
am still confused even given your answer - which end of the pad do I
want to contact the rim first?

1) the leading edge - which would be the *rear* of the pad

or

2) the actual *front* of the pad?

or does it not really matter, just that the pad should not contact the
rim squarely?

Yes, your initial reference to "... leading edge..." had it backwards,
although your clarification "... front
(of the bike)..." made it clear that you knew which end to toe in
(having toes are at the front end of my foot helps me remember what
this means, too :-)

The fact that you noticed this yourself (the forward end of the
caliper on a top mounted rim brake would be the trailing edge - at
least when the bike is moving forward), and the discussion of your
experience with motor cars, indicates that you're gonna be all right.

Summer's coming. Keep on riding.

Summer's *here* (DC area.) Farkin' hot, at least for this damnyankee.

SWMBO is out and about right now, but as soon as she gets back I'm going
to try to talk her into a ride.

BTW the LBS is officially the shiznit, my kinda place. should have gone
there first. bill magically got knocked down to $60 by the time I got
there, then became $40 when he found out I didn't want my old brakes,
and when I asked about pedals he showed me a bucket full of old Looks
and SPDs from "customers who have upgraded." I'll definitely be back there.

I don't know why the PO "upgraded" the brakes, these feel fine. None of
the Cannondale fork shudder I've read about, either. Just used the
stock Tektro pads, didn't bother to order the Kool Stops that I'd
thought I might need to be happy with it. Only problem - can't easily
disengage cantis to drop the wheels, I might have to loosen the
adjustment at the cantis where the cable clamps on and then tighten it
back up at the suicide bars. Other than that, I'm happy, and I don't
forsee lots of throwing the bike in the trunk of the car anyway.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Nate Nagel said:

Dan O said:

On Apr 18, 8:38 pm, Nate Nagel <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Nate Nagel wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>landotter wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>On Apr 18, 6:00 pm, Nate Nagel <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>>2) I've seen references to "toe in" when setting the pads but the
>>>concept is still unclear to me exactly what it's referring to - does
>>>this mean that I should set the pad so that the leading edge or front
>>>(of the bike) surface of the pad should contact the rim slightly before
>>>the rear?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>yeah, because the force of braking will pull and twist the pad and arm
>>a bit. If you don't have toe in, you can get chatter and squeal. A fat
>>postal rubber band around the back part of the pad is a good way to
>>estimate the toe in when snugging things up.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>Thanks for the tip, that makes a lot of sense. Sounds easier than
>trying to snug it up with the brakes released.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>nate

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I just realized that i phrased my original question badly, such that I
am still confused even given your answer - which end of the pad do I
want to contact the rim first?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

1) the leading edge - which would be the *rear* of the pad

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2) the actual *front* of the pad?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

or does it not really matter, just that the pad should not contact the
rim squarely?

Quoted message said:

Yes, your initial reference to "... leading edge..." had it backwards,
although your clarification "... front
(of the bike)..." made it clear that you knew which end to toe in
(having toes are at the front end of my foot helps me remember what
this means, too :-)

Quoted message said:

The fact that you noticed this yourself (the forward end of the
caliper on a top mounted rim brake would be the trailing edge - at
least when the bike is moving forward), and the discussion of your
experience with motor cars, indicates that you're gonna be all right.

Quoted message said:

Summer's coming. Keep on riding.

Summer's *here* (DC area.) Farkin' hot, at least for this damnyankee.

SWMBO is out and about right now, but as soon as she gets back I'm going
to try to talk her into a ride.

BTW the LBS is officially the shiznit, my kinda place. should have gone
there first. bill magically got knocked down to $60 by the time I got
there, then became $40 when he found out I didn't want my old brakes,
and when I asked about pedals he showed me a bucket full of old Looks
and SPDs from "customers who have upgraded." I'll definitely be back there.

I don't know why the PO "upgraded" the brakes, these feel fine. None of
the Cannondale fork shudder I've read about, either. Just used the
stock Tektro pads, didn't bother to order the Kool Stops that I'd
thought I might need to be happy with it. Only problem - can't easily
disengage cantis to drop the wheels, I might have to loosen the
adjustment at the cantis where the cable clamps on and then tighten it
back up at the suicide bars.

You should be able to run cantis a little slacker from the rim than
caliper brakes, thus making the cross wire easier to disengage. You
can also try using one size linkage wire up. It'll slightly reduce
your mechanical advantage, but worth trying if you can't set the pads
both far enough away to quick release and not bottom the lever out on
the bar--something common on cross bikes--Kona Jakes come set up like
that, amusingly enough.

As far as the pads go, indeed Tektro stock pads are plenty good to not
upgrade till they wear out unless you're using them in unusual
conditions. For summer road use, they're plenty good.

landotter <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Nate Nagel said:

Dan O said:

On Apr 18, 8:38 pm, Nate Nagel <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

>Nate Nagel wrote:

Quoted message said:

>>landotter wrote:

Quoted message said:

>>>On Apr 18, 6:00 pm, Nate Nagel <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

>>>>2) I've seen references to "toe in" when setting the pads but
>>>>the concept is still unclear to me exactly what it's referring
>>>>to - does this mean that I should set the pad so that the
>>>>leading edge or front (of the bike) surface of the pad should
>>>>contact the rim slightly before the rear?

Quoted message said:

>>>yeah, because the force of braking will pull and twist the pad
>>>and arm a bit. If you don't have toe in, you can get chatter and
>>>squeal. A fat postal rubber band around the back part of the pad
>>>is a good way to estimate the toe in when snugging things up.

Quoted message said:

>>Thanks for the tip, that makes a lot of sense. Sounds easier than
>>trying to snug it up with the brakes released.

Quoted message said:

>>nate

Quoted message said:

>I just realized that i phrased my original question badly, such
>that I am still confused even given your answer - which end of the
>pad do I want to contact the rim first?

Quoted message said:

>1) the leading edge - which would be the *rear* of the pad

Quoted message said:

>or

Quoted message said:

>2) the actual *front* of the pad?

Quoted message said:

>or does it not really matter, just that the pad should not contact
>the rim squarely?

Quoted message said:

Yes, your initial reference to "... leading edge..." had it
backwards, although your clarification "... front
(of the bike)..." made it clear that you knew which end to toe in
(having toes are at the front end of my foot helps me remember what
this means, too :-)

Quoted message said:

The fact that you noticed this yourself (the forward end of the
caliper on a top mounted rim brake would be the trailing edge - at
least when the bike is moving forward), and the discussion of your
experience with motor cars, indicates that you're gonna be all
right.

Quoted message said:

Summer's coming. Keep on riding.

Summer's *here* (DC area.) Farkin' hot, at least for this
damnyankee.

SWMBO is out and about right now, but as soon as she gets back I'm
going to try to talk her into a ride.

BTW the LBS is officially the shiznit, my kinda place. should have
gone there first. bill magically got knocked down to $60 by the time
I got there, then became $40 when he found out I didn't want my old
brakes, and when I asked about pedals he showed me a bucket full of
old Looks and SPDs from "customers who have upgraded." I'll
definitely be back there.

I don't know why the PO "upgraded" the brakes, these feel fine. None
of the Cannondale fork shudder I've read about, either. Just used
the stock Tektro pads, didn't bother to order the Kool Stops that I'd
thought I might need to be happy with it. Only problem - can't
easily disengage cantis to drop the wheels, I might have to loosen
the adjustment at the cantis where the cable clamps on and then
tighten it back up at the suicide bars.

Kona Jakes come set up like> that, amusingly enough.

My Kona Jake is a total pain in the ass as I have to remove my wheel to
drive under a tunnel before I start riding and the brakes are a struggle
every time plus they squeal so loud dispite being toed in. I am totally
frustrated and would never buy a cross bike again.

Mike Latondresse said:

landotter <[email hidden]> wrote innews:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Nate Nagel said:

Dan O wrote:
> On Apr 18, 8:38 pm, Nate Nagel <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>Nate Nagel wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>>landotter wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>>>On Apr 18, 6:00 pm, Nate Nagel <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>>>>2) I've seen references to "toe in" when setting the pads but
>>>>>the concept is still unclear to me exactly what it's referring
>>>>>to - does this mean that I should set the pad so that the
>>>>>leading edge or front (of the bike) surface of the pad should
>>>>>contact the rim slightly before the rear?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>>>yeah, because the force of braking will pull and twist the pad
>>>>and arm a bit. If you don't have toe in, you can get chatter and
>>>>squeal. A fat postal rubber band around the back part of the pad
>>>>is a good way to estimate the toe in when snugging things up.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>>Thanks for the tip, that makes a lot of sense. Sounds easier than
>>>trying to snug it up with the brakes released.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>>nate

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>I just realized that i phrased my original question badly, such
>>that I am still confused even given your answer - which end of the
>>pad do I want to contact the rim first?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>1) the leading edge - which would be the *rear* of the pad

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>2) the actual *front* of the pad?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>or does it not really matter, just that the pad should not contact
>>the rim squarely?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Yes, your initial reference to "... leading edge..." had it
> backwards, although your clarification "... front
> (of the bike)..." made it clear that you knew which end to toe in
> (having toes are at the front end of my foot helps me remember what
> this means, too :-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> The fact that you noticed this yourself (the forward end of the
> caliper on a top mounted rim brake would be the trailing edge - at
> least when the bike is moving forward), and the discussion of your
> experience with motor cars, indicates that you're gonna be all
> right.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Summer's coming. Keep on riding.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Summer's *here* (DC area.) Farkin' hot, at least for this
damnyankee.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

SWMBO is out and about right now, but as soon as she gets back I'm
going to try to talk her into a ride.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

BTW the LBS is officially the shiznit, my kinda place. should have
gone there first. bill magically got knocked down to $60 by the time
I got there, then became $40 when he found out I didn't want my old
brakes, and when I asked about pedals he showed me a bucket full of
old Looks and SPDs from "customers who have upgraded." I'll
definitely be back there.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't know why the PO "upgraded" the brakes, these feel fine. None
of the Cannondale fork shudder I've read about, either. Just used
the stock Tektro pads, didn't bother to order the Kool Stops that I'd
thought I might need to be happy with it. Only problem - can't
easily disengage cantis to drop the wheels, I might have to loosen
the adjustment at the cantis where the cable clamps on and then
tighten it back up at the suicide bars.

Quoted message said:

Kona Jakes come set up like> that, amusingly enough.

My Kona Jake is a total pain in the ass as I have to remove my wheel to
drive under a tunnel before I start riding and the brakes are a struggle
every time plus they squeal so loud dispite being toed in. I am totally
frustrated and would never buy a cross bike again.

Size up on the linkage cable, clean your rims, and resurface those
pads--and you should be good to go. Alternately, have the shop you
bought it at make it right. Not going to ever buy a Toyota again if ya
get a warped rotor on your car? Come 'on--it's a machine and needs to
be set up right is all.

landotter said:

Size up on the linkage cable

How does sizing up the linkage (straddle) cable help eliminate squeal?
I've never heard that suggested before. It changes the mechanical
advantage for actuating the brake, but that's in a direction that's
orthogonal to direction in which the pads move when they squeal.

Changing the straddle cable is about the only thing I haven't tried on
a front Avid Shorty 7 that I cannot de-squeal. I switched from stock
to Kook Stop salmon pads, I've cleaned the rims, and I've tried a vast
number of ever-so-slightly different toe-in adjustments. No luck.
Cleaning the rims with a Brillo pad wedged between the brake pad and
rim helps, but not completely, and only for a very short time. The
rear brake is the same type and the rear rim is the same, but that one
was fine on the initial adjustment. Because of that, and because I've
been successfully adjusting other cantilever brakes since 1994, I
figure there must be some intrinsic mechanical resonance in the fork/
brakes/pads/rim combination. That, and the squeal is a more pure tone
compared to other squealing brakes I've heard. Anyway, I'd be
interested to hear how it might help.

Thanks,
Stephen Greenwood

On Apr 19, 10:22 pm, Stephen Greenwood <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

landotter said:

Size up on the linkage cable

How does sizing up the linkage (straddle) cable help eliminate squeal?
I've never heard that suggested before. It changes the mechanical
advantage for actuating the brake, but that's in a direction that's
orthogonal to direction in which the pads move when they squeal.

Changing the straddle cable is about the only thing I haven't tried on
a front Avid Shorty 7 that I cannot de-squeal. I switched from stock
to Kook Stop salmon pads, I've cleaned the rims, and I've tried a vast
number of ever-so-slightly different toe-in adjustments. No luck.
Cleaning the rims with a Brillo pad wedged between the brake pad and
rim helps, but not completely, and only for a very short time. The
rear brake is the same type and the rear rim is the same, but that one
was fine on the initial adjustment. Because of that, and because I've
been successfully adjusting other cantilever brakes since 1994, I
figure there must be some intrinsic mechanical resonance in the fork/
brakes/pads/rim combination. That, and the squeal is a more pure tone
compared to other squealing brakes I've heard. Anyway, I'd be
interested to hear how it might help.

Thanks,
Stephen Greenwood

Have you mic'ed the post O.D. @ a few different points to get an
average and to see how much it varies, plus measure the I.D. of the
brake bushing @ both ends & from different positions again to look for
average & max variation. You could have an out of spec post or brake
bushing. Although I don't know what the clearance tolerance Min/ Max
should be. But excessive (whatever that is) can cause vibration. Many
cantilever posts are replaceable w/ a simple Allen key.
Perhaps Avid could tell you what the Min/ Max tolerance is, since they
are reasonably easy to access, or at least they used to be.

Good luck Jay

Quoted message said:

With some of the Kool Stop asymmetrical pads, there is no need to set
toe in. They have a sort of a curved shape relative to the flatness of
the rim side. Just set them up w/ both the front & rear ends of the
pad touching & the toe in is set. Their instructions on the package or
maybe web site explain it better. Works for me.

Jay

Yeah, the Kool Stop V-type cartidge pads come with a small nub on the
leading edge for that purpose. I used it for my first attempt. It
worked fine for the rear brake, but something's unusual about the
combination of rim/pad/brake/fork I'm using.