Inside Out 7.30pm Tonight BBC1

"elyob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

All about cycling in London. Just seen a trailer with the token taxi
driver saying cycles shouldn't be on the road.

It's regionalised. In the Yorkshire area it's about a copper driving on a
German derestricted autobahn. Satellite viewers can access the BBC London
show though.

--
Simon Mason

http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 13:44:16 GMT, "elyob" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

All about cycling in London. Just seen a trailer with the token taxi driver
saying cycles shouldn't be on the road.

There's a bit where a cycle instructor teaches a BBC correspondent to
cycle assertively.

Being provisionally accredited with Transport for London as a cycle
instructor, I am very interested in this programme.

"Tilly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

There's a bit where a cycle instructor teaches a BBC correspondent to
cycle assertively.

Being provisionally accredited with Transport for London as a cycle
instructor, I am very interested in this programme.

I would have liked to have seen it, but missed it 🙁 So what happened?

Rich

"Richard Goodman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tilly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

There's a bit where a cycle instructor teaches a BBC correspondent to
cycle assertively.

Being provisionally accredited with Transport for London as a cycle
instructor, I am very interested in this programme.

I would have liked to have seen it, but missed it 🙁 So what happened?

Presenter learnt some assertive cycling techniques, thouroughly enjoyed
himself. They mentioned 87 deaths in 5 years, mentioning Sebastian
Lukomski. The taxi driver didn't change his opinion. The instructor didn't
wear a h*lm*t.

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 20:53:57 GMT, "elyob" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I would have liked to have seen it, but missed it 🙁 So what happened?

Presenter learnt some assertive cycling techniques, thouroughly enjoyed
himself. They mentioned 87 deaths in 5 years, mentioning Sebastian
Lukomski. The taxi driver didn't change his opinion. The instructor didn't
wear a h*lm*t.

The taxi driver did admit that the trained cyclist made sure that he
was visible, and always made his intentions clear.

He still claimed that bicycles were a menace and that his average
speed of 11mph in London would be temporarily lowered to 9mph when
behind a cyclist in primary position.

Below is an accurate transcript from an interview with Stuart Reed of
the Transport Research Laboratory: (The ... indicate commentary from
the presenter).

"They [drivers] tend to see them [cyclists] as vulnerable and annoying
rather than threatening... They see a hierarchy on the road of status
and it's interesting that cyclists are at the bottom of that
hierarchy; interestingly, of course, pedestrians aren't even on the
hierarchy as far as drivers are concerned... They will give examples
such as disobeying red lights, riding on footways, weaving through
traffic, not carrying insurance, not being licensed: not conforming to
the requirements for being a proper or equal road user."

Quite right too! They don't pay road tax like wot I does. Or pay £2.80
per gallon tax. They don't smoke ( usually) like wot I does. They
don't have blood pressure problems like wot I does. All in all they
are a nuisance as they believe that they have a legal right to be
there and have due consideration of care as a road user as defined in
law. Like I says they is a bloody pain and I don't give em any room
and hate them. (PS - most of em dont even eat at Harry's caff - where
a heart attack on a plate is offered).

A. Bigot. - Taxi driver of this Parish.

I didn't agree with some of what the trainer said, like cycling in the
middle of the road is "assertive". Bollocks to that. A bicycle is slower
than a car, and if I'm a passenger in that taxi, I would want to shoot the
cyclist slowing me down and increasing my taxi fare!! Nice way to [censored]
motorists!

It's good that people are trained to stay visible in the roads and to signal
properly. But cycle in the middle of the road? Not for me, thanks!

--
Vivian
-------
"We learned more from a three minute record than we ever learned in school".
No Surrender

"Tilly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 20:53:57 GMT, "elyob" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I would have liked to have seen it, but missed it 🙁 So what happened?

Presenter learnt some assertive cycling techniques, thouroughly enjoyed
himself. They mentioned 87 deaths in 5 years, mentioning Sebastian
Lukomski. The taxi driver didn't change his opinion. The instructor

didn't

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

wear a h*lm*t.

The taxi driver did admit that the trained cyclist made sure that he
was visible, and always made his intentions clear.

He still claimed that bicycles were a menace and that his average
speed of 11mph in London would be temporarily lowered to 9mph when
behind a cyclist in primary position.

Below is an accurate transcript from an interview with Stuart Reed of
the Transport Research Laboratory: (The ... indicate commentary from
the presenter).

"They [drivers] tend to see them [cyclists] as vulnerable and annoying
rather than threatening... They see a hierarchy on the road of status
and it's interesting that cyclists are at the bottom of that
hierarchy; interestingly, of course, pedestrians aren't even on the
hierarchy as far as drivers are concerned... They will give examples
such as disobeying red lights, riding on footways, weaving through
traffic, not carrying insurance, not being licensed: not conforming to
the requirements for being a proper or equal road user."

Vivian said:

I didn't agree with some of what the trainer said, like cycling in the
middle of the road is "assertive". Bollocks to that. A bicycle is
slower than a car, and if I'm a passenger in that taxi, I would want
to shoot the cyclist slowing me down and increasing my taxi fare!!
Nice way to [censored] motorists!

Does that mean we're allowed to shoot motorists when they hold /us/ up?

(Oils gun)

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
World Domination?
Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)

Vivian said:

I didn't agree with some of what the trainer said, like cycling in the
middle of the road is "assertive". Bollocks to that. A bicycle is slower
than a car, and if I'm a passenger in that taxi, I would want to shoot the
cyclist slowing me down and increasing my taxi fare!! Nice way to [censored]
motorists!

It's good that people are trained to stay visible in the roads and to signal
properly. But cycle in the middle of the road? Not for me, thanks!

I didn't see the prog, but I suspect the trainer meant the 'primary
riding position' in which case they were correct. It is where you are
most visible and where you will be at leasrt risk.
Your safety is a LOT more important than the few seconds that it will
cost the taxi passenger. That said, to deliberately hold up other
traffic is unnacceptable.

Vivian, have you read CycleCraft by John Franklin?

John B

Vivian said:

I didn't agree with some of what the trainer said, like cycling in the
middle of the road is "assertive". Bollocks to that. A bicycle is slower
than a car, and if I'm a passenger in that taxi, I would want to shoot the
cyclist slowing me down and increasing my taxi fare!! Nice way to [censored]
motorists!

It's good that people are trained to stay visible in the roads and to signal
properly. But cycle in the middle of the road? Not for me, thanks!

There is a section of road near where I live with an elongated central
island. The carriageway each side is narrow enough that it is not
possible to safely overtake a bicycle with a car (or anything wider).
Taking the primary riding position (the middle of the lane) is
*essential* here to stop anyone trying to overtake you; to lurk in the
gutter is dangerous.

By the way, how does a slower taxi increase your taxi fare? Round here
taxis charge by distance and by idling time.

As for cyclists being slower than cars, that is only occasionally true.
I quite frequently cycle faster than the cars. Do you think they
should pull over and let me past (as you seem to think is acceptable for
a slower cyclist), or should I wait until it is safe and clear to overtake?

You really should read Franklin's cyclecraft.

R.

"Tilly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

not conforming to
the requirements for being a proper or equal road user."

We may be proper but we are certainly not equal -- we are superior road
users -- there as of right.

T

Richard said:

There is a section of road near where I live with an elongated
central island. The carriageway each side is narrow enough that
it is not possible to safely overtake a bicycle with a car (or
anything wider).

That won't stop the morons trying it though. The golden rule requires
it. [1]

Quoted message said:

Taking the primary riding position (the middle of the lane) is
*essential* here to stop anyone trying to overtake you; to lurk in
the gutter is dangerous.

When they sit behind you Hoeying [2] furiously, it simply confirms that
they would indeed have risked your life in order to follow the golden
rule if you had not wisely adopted the primary position.

[1] Golden rule. All cyclists must immediately be overtaken regardless
of any other factors.

[2] Hoey. Verb. To use the horn contrary to rule 92 of the Highway Code
when the cyclist in front of you is not riding in the gutter, after
Vauxhall MP Kate Hoey who boasted of doing this in an anti-cyclist rant
in the Mail on Sunday.

--
Dave...

"JohnB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

That said, to deliberately hold up other
traffic is unnacceptable.

Not if my safety is in question if I don't hold them up.

Deliberately and unnecessarily holding up traffic is unacceptable.

But, then its often cars holding up the cyclists -- and they seem to do it
deliberately (e.g. rush past me then stop to wait for a car to come through
a gap which the car & I could have passed together).

dkahn400 wrote (with tongue in cheek, since I've snipped a lot):

Quoted message said:

[1] Golden rule. All cyclists must immediately be overtaken regardless
of any other factors.

Absolutely. Even if it means you can only draw level with them before
you turn left, you must do so, since it is forbidden to even contemplate
using that dusty, cobweb-covered pedal immediately to the left of the
accelerator, still less that dangerous Bolshie practice of "anticipation
of hazards".

Quoted message said:

[2] Hoey. Verb. To use the horn contrary to rule 92 of the Highway Code
when the cyclist in front of you is not riding in the gutter, after
Vauxhall MP Kate Hoey who boasted of doing this in an anti-cyclist rant
in the Mail on Sunday.

I fear I must correct you on your term. Surely the correct phrase is
"Boothroyd", after the former Speaker of that name who wished to
remonstrate with a cyclist on a mobile phone by means of the horn held
down continuously. Which came first, the Boothroyd or the Hoey?

R.

"Richard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Absolutely. Even if it means you can only draw level with them before
you turn left, you must do so, since it is forbidden to even contemplate
using that dusty, cobweb-covered pedal immediately to the left of the
accelerator, still less that dangerous Bolshie practice of "anticipation
of hazards".

Actually that dusty, cobweb-covered pedal will be used more by people who
are [censored] drivers and can't anticipate hazards. Not that this detracts from
your point.

cheers,
clive

Richard said:

dkahn400 wrote (with tongue in cheek, since I've snipped a lot):

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[2] Hoey. Verb. To use the horn contrary to rule 92 of the Highway
Code when the cyclist in front of you is not riding in the gutter,
after Vauxhall MP Kate Hoey who boasted of doing this in an anti-
cyclist rant in the Mail on Sunday.

I fear I must correct you on your term. Surely the correct phrase is
"Boothroyd", after the former Speaker of that name who wished to
remonstrate with a cyclist on a mobile phone by means of the horn
held down continuously. Which came first, the Boothroyd or the Hoey?

The Boothroyd blast was claimed first, but was not a "get out of the
way, you non-motorised peasant" incident, as the Hoey honk was.

--
Dave...

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 13:44:25 -0000, "Tony W"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Deliberately and unnecessarily holding up traffic is unacceptable.

Ahem. ITYM Deliberately and unnecessarily holding up *other* traffic
is unacceptable...

FCVO necessary / deliberate, obviously. Driving a car through Reading
during the hours of daylight counts as deliberately and unnecessarily
holding up traffic, but for some reason this is seen only as further
justification for endangering the lives of those pesky cyclists on the
few short stretched of road between jams.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

Vivian said:

Bollocks to that. A bicycle is slower
than a car, and if I'm a passenger in that taxi, I would want to shoot the
cyclist slowing me down and increasing my taxi fare!! Nice way to [censored]
motorists!

Nice of you think my safety is worth less to you than 10p on your taxi fare.

Tony

Don't be silly!!!

If we get royally [censored] when they park on our cycle lanes, or they stop
on the bicycle boxes, then they have every right to be annoyed at a cyclist
that's slowing the driver down. And to be annoyed or [censored] IS NOT THE
EQUIVALENT OF SHOOTING, THROWING THE CAR AT THE CYCLIST, ETC!! OK?

--
Vivian
-------
"We learned more from a three minute record than we ever learned in school".
No Surrender

"Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Vivian said:

I didn't agree with some of what the trainer said, like cycling in the
middle of the road is "assertive". Bollocks to that. A bicycle is
slower than a car, and if I'm a passenger in that taxi, I would want
to shoot the cyclist slowing me down and increasing my taxi fare!!
Nice way to [censored] motorists!

Does that mean we're allowed to shoot motorists when they hold /us/ up?

(Oils gun)

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
World Domination?
Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)