Indexed steering

esmarj said:

Hi there

I need hel[p] with fixing indexed steering on my Pinarello GALILEO from
2005 (integrated headset).....

Was the damage that caused the indexing due to lubrication failure or
plastic deformation as the result of impact loads?

[Sorry, the temptation was too great.]

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Impact is not a synonym of affect or effect

esmarj said:

Hi there

I need held with fixing indexed steering on my Pinarello GALILEO from
2005 (integrated headset).

Shall I replace the headset, or can I repair the existing?
Do i need a new special headset from Pinarello, or is a standard
headset from anyother supplier ok?
What kind of tools do I need?

Thanks

I have a 2005 Galileo that I have replaced the headset on. I got the
special bearings from the dealer, and they don't fit right! The lower
bearing (both are the same) doesn't seat properly onto the race mounted
on the bearing, so the fork sticks down about 2mm more than it should.
These bearings may have been for an older Marvel or something, I don't
know. No bike shop is going to have suitable bearings lying around, as
they are not standard. You could probably get some from a machine shop,
but you'd have to take them out first to measure them. Best to take it
to a shop that has the proper tools to remove and install original
ones. I did it myself but I have a headset remover and press. Don't pay
anyone to do it with a rubber mallet and a long screwdriver, you can do
that yourself! Only pay if they have and use the proper tools.

If the bearings are cashed already you don't have to worry about
ruining them taking them out, so pop them out and see if the special
ones from Pinarello dealer are exactly the same (particularly the inner
face where the fork race goes) before buying. You could also take them
then to a machine shop. You could put them back in if you need to and
the steering probably won't be any worse while you wait for the machine
shop to order or whatever.

I ride the "wrong" bearings I got from the dealer with no problems ,
but I plan to sort it out eventually.

Good luck!

Joseph

Hi Johnny

I don't know what casued the indexed steering, but I have believe it
comes from carrying my bike on the roof of my car, or by having it
hanging from the ceiling in the basement !?

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

esmarj said:

Hi there

I need hel[p] with fixing indexed steering on my Pinarello GALILEO from
2005 (integrated headset).....

Was the damage that caused the indexing due to lubrication failure or
plastic deformation as the result of impact loads?

[Sorry, the temptation was too great.]

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Impact is not a synonym of affect or effect

Hi Joseph

Thanks for your quick and great replay :-)

Esmar

Quoted message said:

esmarj said:

Hi there

I need held with fixing indexed steering on my Pinarello GALILEO from
2005 (integrated headset).

Shall I replace the headset, or can I repair the existing?
Do i need a new special headset from Pinarello, or is a standard
headset from anyother supplier ok?
What kind of tools do I need?

Thanks

I have a 2005 Galileo that I have replaced the headset on. I got the
special bearings from the dealer, and they don't fit right! The lower
bearing (both are the same) doesn't seat properly onto the race mounted
on the bearing, so the fork sticks down about 2mm more than it should.
These bearings may have been for an older Marvel or something, I don't
know. No bike shop is going to have suitable bearings lying around, as
they are not standard. You could probably get some from a machine shop,
but you'd have to take them out first to measure them. Best to take it
to a shop that has the proper tools to remove and install original
ones. I did it myself but I have a headset remover and press. Don't pay
anyone to do it with a rubber mallet and a long screwdriver, you can do
that yourself! Only pay if they have and use the proper tools.

If the bearings are cashed already you don't have to worry about
ruining them taking them out, so pop them out and see if the special
ones from Pinarello dealer are exactly the same (particularly the inner
face where the fork race goes) before buying. You could also take them
then to a machine shop. You could put them back in if you need to and
the steering probably won't be any worse while you wait for the machine
shop to order or whatever.

I ride the "wrong" bearings I got from the dealer with no problems ,
but I plan to sort it out eventually.

Good luck!

Joseph

esmarj said:

Hi Johnny

I don't know what casued the indexed steering, but I have believe it
comes from carrying my bike on the roof of my car, or by having it
hanging from the ceiling in the basement !?

What causes you to believe this poppycock?
Phil Brown

esmarj said:

Hi Johnny

I don't know what casued the indexed steering, but I have believe it
comes from carrying my bike on the roof of my car, or by having it
hanging from the ceiling in the basement !?

I think mine got ruined from hanging upside-down in my garage all
winter. Poor seals and/or drainage I think hastened corrosion.

Joseph

Quoted message said:

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

esmarj said:

Hi there

I need hel[p] with fixing indexed steering on my Pinarello GALILEO from
2005 (integrated headset).....

Was the damage that caused the indexing due to lubrication failure or
plastic deformation as the result of impact loads?

[Sorry, the temptation was too great.]

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Impact is not a synonym of affect or effect

esmarj said:

Hi Johnny

I don't know what casued the indexed steering, but I have believe it
comes from carrying my bike on the roof of my car, or by having it
hanging from the ceiling in the basement !?

It's relatively common if you carry your bicycle on a fork mount car top
rack for long periods of time.

When a bicycle is clamped by the fork, into a fork mount, the fork and
headset are held rigidly in place. As the vehicle goes down the road the
headset will be constantly absorbing small shocks. This would not be a
problem if the headset were also turning, because the lubricant inside
would be distributed by the rolling of the bearings. But the headset is
not turning and therein lies the problem. It's called fretting.

Jobst explained this all many moons ago, but the link to it is gone, his
exact quote was "The damage occurs when these small motions occur when
there are no steering motions to replenish lubricant while the bearing
balls fret in place. Fretting breaks down the lubricant film on which
the balls normally roll and without which they weld to the races and
tear out tiny particles."

On a roof rack where the bicycle has both wheels in a tray, and the
bicycle is secured by the frame, headset bearing fretting shouldn't be a
problem; not only is the headset is able to have a little motion, but
there is less shock to the headset because it is cushioned by the tires.

Fork mount racks seem to be going out of style, but for a while they
were very popular. I had to jury-rig a Saris tandem mount to fit my
Thule bars, as Saris has the only tandem rack where the bike isn't fork
mounted.

It's unlikely that hanging the bike from the ceiling had any effect on
the headset.

Hi Phil

Don't think this is poppycock. This is my second brand new bike, and
already after 6.000 km, I have to make a headset change. The first one
was even worse, the interval was for every 4.000 km.
Don't think this is common for race bikes ?

Esmar

philcycles said:

esmarj said:

Hi Johnny

I don't know what casued the indexed steering, but I have believe it
comes from carrying my bike on the roof of my car, or by having it
hanging from the ceiling in the basement !?

What causes you to believe this poppycock?
Phil Brown

esmarj said:

Hi Phil

Don't think this is poppycock. This is my second brand new bike, and
already after 6.000 km, I have to make a headset change. The first one
was even worse, the interval was for every 4.000 km.
Don't think this is common for race bikes ?

Assuming the headset is installed properly, how long they last depends
on how precisely the frame is prepared (such as how close to parallel
the faces of the head tube are).

I've had a frame that went through headsets very fast as you describe,
and others that had no problems for years. Same treatment. I had the
first frame re-faced (and also some other frame work done on it) and
it lasted longer.

Though these bikes were only on roof racks about 20 times a year for a
few hours. So maybe roof racks could contribute to the problem. But
I doubt it.

JT

****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

esmarj said:

Hi Phil

Don't think this is poppycock. This is my second brand new bike, and
already after 6.000 km, I have to make a headset change. The first one
was even worse, the interval was for every 4.000 km.
Don't think this is common for race bikes ?

Esmar

philcycles said:

esmarj said:

Hi Johnny

I don't know what casued the indexed steering, but I have believe it
comes from carrying my bike on the roof of my car, or by having it
hanging from the ceiling in the basement !?

What causes you to believe this poppycock?
Phil Brown

I had mine go early(indexed), but I think it was because I had too
tight a setting on the races. I learned(the hard way) to make it just
tight enough to keep things from rattling around.

Chris

esmarj said:

Hi Phil

Don't think this is poppycock. This is my second brand new bike, and
already after 6.000 km, I have to make a headset change. The first one
was even worse, the interval was for every 4.000 km.
Don't think this is common for race bikes ?

Esmar

Do you ride where it is wet? I rode a very wet fall last year and then
hung up my bike in the garage upside-down. Previously I have stored my
bikes just leaned up against a wall. I think water settled on the
bearings in a way that it would not have had the bike been
upside-right, and this caused corrosion that otherwise would not have
happened.

A headset can also get pitted from over-tightening it or from being
pressed in too hard.

Either way 4-6000km is way to little unless something is wrong.

Joseph

Quoted message said:

philcycles said:

esmarj said:

Hi Johnny

I don't know what casued the indexed steering, but I have believe it
comes from carrying my bike on the roof of my car, or by having it
hanging from the ceiling in the basement !?

What causes you to believe this poppycock?
Phil Brown

Yes, I ride in probably the rainest place on Earth, but I haven't paied
any attention to water settled on to the bearings. But I do on some
occations shake the bike downside-up, to get rid of possibe wather
inside the frame. (saddle tube is worst in collecting wather)

Over-tightening isn't any problem. I'm useing the old princible with
pressing the front brake and shake the bike back and forwards, until
the fork gets thight.

Quoted message said:

esmarj said:

Hi Phil

Don't think this is poppycock. This is my second brand new bike, and
already after 6.000 km, I have to make a headset change. The first one
was even worse, the interval was for every 4.000 km.
Don't think this is common for race bikes ?

Esmar

Do you ride where it is wet? I rode a very wet fall last year and then
hung up my bike in the garage upside-down. Previously I have stored my
bikes just leaned up against a wall. I think water settled on the
bearings in a way that it would not have had the bike been
upside-right, and this caused corrosion that otherwise would not have
happened.

A headset can also get pitted from over-tightening it or from being
pressed in too hard.

Either way 4-6000km is way to little unless something is wrong.

Joseph

Quoted message said:

philcycles said:

esmarj wrote:
> Hi Johnny
>
> I don't know what casued the indexed steering, but I have believe it
> comes from carrying my bike on the roof of my car, or by having it
> hanging from the ceiling in the basement !?
>

What causes you to believe this poppycock?
Phil Brown

esmarj top posted:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hi there

I need hel[p] with fixing indexed steering on my Pinarello GALILEO from
2005 (integrated headset).....

Was the damage that caused the indexing due to lubrication failure or
plastic deformation as the result of impact loads?

[Sorry, the temptation was too great.]

Hi Johnny

I don't know what casued the indexed steering, but I have believe it
comes from carrying my bike on the roof of my car, or by having it
hanging from the ceiling in the basement !?

Read this [1] thread and you will learn why I asked the question.

[1]
<http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/browse_frm/thread/8e1fbb09d74a0027/a08a4904b68237ae?lnk=gst&q=jobst+brinelling+false+headset&rnum=1#a08a4904b68237ae>.

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Impact is not a synonym of affect or effect

esmarj said:

Hi Phil

Don't think this is poppycock. This is my second brand new bike, and
already after 6.000 km, I have to make a headset change. The first one
was even worse, the interval was for every 4.000 km.
Don't think this is common for race bikes ?

I have NEVER had a headset problem in 33 years of bulding frames. And
even in bikes that I bought-like my 24 year old Mountain Bike with it's
original Tange headset-I don't have problems. But then again I know how
to face a headtube and install a headset.
Integrated headsets are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
Perhaps it's because in their current form they're new-they aren't
really-but they have problens with installation and maintainance. And
bearing supply seems to be a problem. I'll stick with old style
headsets, thank you.
Phil Brown

philcycles said:

esmarj said:

Hi Phil

Don't think this is poppycock. This is my second brand new bike, and
already after 6.000 km, I have to make a headset change. The first one
was even worse, the interval was for every 4.000 km.
Don't think this is common for race bikes ?

I have NEVER had a headset problem in 33 years of bulding frames. And
even in bikes that I bought-like my 24 year old Mountain Bike with it's
original Tange headset-I don't have problems. But then again I know how
to face a headtube and install a headset.
Integrated headsets are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
Perhaps it's because in their current form they're new-they aren't
really-but they have problens with installation and maintainance. And
bearing supply seems to be a problem. I'll stick with old style
headsets, thank you.

I wish old-style was more prevalent too. But I think the reason me and
the OP may have had problems with these bikes is related to poor
drainage when the bike is upside-down after riding in the rain. The way
the cups are arranged on traditional headsets this could be a problem
there too, I suppose. Either way, I am reaaraging the hooks in my
garage to have the bikes right-side-up.

Best headset I ever had was a steel Campy pista. It lasted until the
bike fell of the roof rack on the highway, resulting in (among other
things!) some pitting of the headset.

Joseph