Index, schmindex

(Tom Kunich) said:

RonSonic <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(Nick Kolodinsky) said:

Blair P. Houghton <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
> After not riding for 12 years (about), I had my Holdsworth
> cleaned and lubed this week, and hopped on it for a test-ride.
>
> Ran the friction-shifting Shimano 600 derailleurs into
> every gear without so much as a chatter.
>
> My index is in my index finger.
>
> --Blair
> "Just like riding a bicycle."

While climbing hard out of the saddle!?? ;-)

That's always a matter of planning and bike handling. If you're trying to shift
while out of the saddle you are already hosed.

Besides, didn't Lance fail to beat the old pre-index time up the Alp of Wheeze?

Hmm, the record from Pantani is apparently 37:35. Over the same
distance Lance did 37:36.

What was the "pre-index" time again?

I guess my mistake. I misremembered and thought the fastest time up that hill
was older than that. As it turns out there isn't much in the way of recorded
times from before the mid-80s, at least not that I can find. Guess we won't
know.

Ron

Bill-<< Sure, you can. However, it's not as convenient or as fast as index
shifting, most importantly the STI or Campy brake lever integrated
shifters. >><BR><BR>

I guess but the OP was talking about the ole stuff works just fine, something i
agree with. When 'speed' and 'convienence' is not all that important, for us
duffers that are jujst riding around.

I think index, lever mounted shifting is a MUST for-
-beginners
-MTBs
-racers

For the rest it is in the 'nice to have' catagory, but certainly not essential.

Bill-<< It's not all that often I shift when standing, but there are times it's

certainly necessary in racing moments. >><BR><BR>

'racing', bing, bing, bing, we have a winner!!

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

I think index, lever mounted shifting is a MUST for-
-beginners
-MTBs
-racers

For the rest it is in the 'nice to have' catagory, but certainly not essential....

How did those of us who were beginners before the mid to late 1980's
ever learn to ride bicycles with derailleur gearing then, if brifteurs
are a must for beginners?

Twist grip shifters work just fine on MTB's and other flat bar bicycles
- much better than Rabidfire (sic) in my opinion.

--
Tom Sherman – Quad City Area

tom-<< How did those of us who were beginners before the mid to late 1980's
ever learn to ride bicycles with derailleur gearing then, if brifteurs
are a must for beginners? >><BR><BR>

Well, we just learned, didn't we? We listened to,others, took their suggestions
and developed that shifting skill. BUT lever mounted, index shifting has
brought a LOT of people to bicycles that otherwise may not have tried it, cuz
it was 'too hard' to master.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

tom-<< How did those of us who were beginners before the mid to late 1980's
ever learn to ride bicycles with derailleur gearing then, if brifteurs
are a must for beginners? >><BR><BR>

Well, we just learned, didn't we? We listened to,others, took their suggestions
and developed that shifting skill. BUT lever mounted, index shifting has
brought a LOT of people to bicycles that otherwise may not have tried it, cuz
it was 'too hard' to master.

I had no noticeable learning curve with non-indexed shifting, so I have
never understood what all the fuss was about. However, I can spend a lot
of time trying to adjust indexing with less than satisfactory results.
That is why I prefer Shimano bar ends, since if there is any problem
with the indexing, I can switch to friction mode and shift with no problems.

--
Tom Sherman – Quad City Area

I think the greatest contribution to shifting performance attributable
to indexing is that for the first time shift mechs (levers and
derailers) were for being made with real precision.

I used friction Bar-cons years after "everyone else" went indexed, and I
could easily feel the difference in performance the newer derailers
made.

It's not the "click", trust me.

- -

"May you have the wind at your back.
And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

Tom Sherman said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

I think index, lever mounted shifting is a MUST for-
-beginners
-MTBs
-racers

For the rest it is in the 'nice to have' catagory, but certainly not
essential....

How did those of us who were beginners before the mid to late 1980's
ever learn to ride bicycles with derailleur gearing then, if brifteurs
are a must for beginners?

It's not hard to ride a bicycle without index shifters. However, index
shifting does bring a performance advantage. Back when nobody had
index shifting, it was (obviously) a wash. TODAY, if you have "index
versus friction" where performance matters, then it's better to have
index.

Quoted message said:

Twist grip shifters work just fine on MTB's and other flat bar bicycles
- much better than Rabidfire (sic) in my opinion.

Personally I prefer riding without gloves. You really can't ride twist
shifters without gloves... once your hands sweat you can't shift the
front derailleur, usually.

Quoted message said:

...
Dear Bill,

I'm probably confused by the various records and whether
indexed shifting was used, but I think that Armstrong just
did it in 39:41 and that Pantani did it in 37:35--126
seconds faster.

Note the 39:41 time includes approximately 1.5K of flat TT *before* the
start of the climb. I've seen it reported that the "climb" portion of
the time trial was 37:36 for Armstrong.

Bill Lloyd said:

Quoted message said:

...
Dear Bill,

I'm probably confused by the various records and whether
indexed shifting was used, but I think that Armstrong just
did it in 39:41 and that Pantani did it in 37:35--126
seconds faster.

Note the 39:41 time includes approximately 1.5K of flat TT *before* the
start of the climb. I've seen it reported that the "climb" portion of
the time trial was 37:36 for Armstrong.

I think Armstrong and Pantani were 1 s apart when the 1.5 K part was subtracted. Of course you are
right about Pantani having indexing too.

There is no technical reason for shifting friction unless one's bike simply does not have indexing.
There is nothing wrong with leaving the bike friction if the owner is content with it.

RonSonic said:

(Tom Kunich) said:

RonSonic <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On 22 Jul 2004 08:58:32 -0700, [email hidden] (Nick Kolodinsky) wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That's always a matter of planning and bike handling.

There is no reason to plan if one has indexing.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Besides, didn't Lance fail to beat the old pre-index time up the Alp of Wheeze?

Hmm, the record from Pantani is apparently 37:35. Over the same
distance Lance did 37:36.

What was the "pre-index" time again?

I guess my mistake. I misremembered and thought the fastest time up that hill
was older than that. As it turns out there isn't much in the way of recorded
times from before the mid-80s, at least not that I can find. Guess we won't
know.

Bikes are 5 lbs lighter now than the were in the non-index days. Non-index was a long time ago.