incident on blackfriars bridge

davek said:

At the time of posting (5.55pm Monday), Blackfriars
Bridge is closed due to a cyclist having been knocked
down by a bus.

I'm in the IPC tower at the moment, right next to the
bridge, with a bird's eye view of the accident scene. The
victim has been covered over with a red tarpaulin and none
of the ambulance crew is administering any kind of
attention so you have to assume the worst.

For anyone familiar with the traffic markings on
Blackfriars Bridge, this incident probably won't come as a
huge surprise.

On the northbound carriageway (where the incident
happened), the left hand lane is for traffic coming off
the bridge and on to the Embankment. There are two lanes
to the right for traffic heading straight on at the
northern side of the bridge. There's a cycle lane (dotted
lines) marked between the left hand lane and the straight
on lane. I think the bus hit the cyclist as it pulled out
of a bus stop in the left hand lane and was crossing over
the cycle lane so it could go straight ahead at the other
side of the bridge.

Nasty. I saw a weird one today...youth dragging himself +
bike out from under the front spoiler of a Volvo estate
driven by blonde woman (I didn't actually see the
collision), large burly blokes and other drivers appear
and convince woman not to scarper, youth limps across road
with two crisped wheels, spends 2 mins trying to bend them
into shape while ignoring woman, walks up nearby steps,
leaves trashed bike with bloke sitting on wall in exchange
for can of strong lager, walks off drinking lager, blonde
woman bemused.

Zog The Undeniable wrote: ahead at the other

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

side of the bridge.

Nasty. I saw a weird one today...youth dragging himself +
bike out from under the front spoiler of a Volvo estate
driven by blonde woman (I didn't actually see the
collision), large burly blokes and other drivers appear
and convince woman not to scarper, youth limps across road
with two crisped wheels, spends 2 mins trying to bend them
into shape while ignoring woman, walks up nearby steps,
leaves trashed bike with bloke sitting on wall in exchange
for can of strong lager, walks off drinking lager, blonde
woman bemused.

Newly stolen bike?

Tony

"davek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

At the time of posting (5.55pm Monday), Blackfriars
Bridge is closed due to a cyclist having been knocked
down by a bus.

I'm in the IPC tower at the moment, right next to the
bridge, with a bird's eye view of the accident scene. The
victim has been covered over with a red tarpaulin and none
of the ambulance crew is administering any kind of
attention so you have to assume the worst.

For anyone familiar with the traffic markings on
Blackfriars Bridge, this incident probably won't come as a
huge surprise.

On the northbound carriageway (where the incident
happened), the left hand lane is for traffic coming off
the bridge and on to the Embankment. There are two lanes
to the right for traffic heading straight on at the
northern side of the bridge. There's a cycle lane (dotted
lines) marked between the left hand lane and the straight
on lane. I think the bus hit the cyclist as it pulled out
of a bus stop in the left hand lane and was crossing over
the cycle lane so it could go straight ahead at the other
side of the bridge.

Sad, and bad. This is what I hate about cyclepaths - poorly
designed facilities really are worse than no facilities at
all - and I can't think of any I've seen that are preferable
to the road, although I'm sure there exist a minority that
are. The vast majority are a disservice to cyclists, and
especially to novices who are most likely to use them. It's
crazy - put in schemes that put the people already most at
risk at even more risk. That's all most of them do.

Rich

Tony Raven said:

Newly stolen bike?

No, from the age and condition of it I think a can of
Tennents Super was a fair exchange!

"davek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

At the time of posting (5.55pm Monday), Blackfriars
Bridge is closed due to a cyclist having been knocked
down by a bus.

I'm in the IPC tower at the moment, right next to the
bridge, with a bird's eye view of the accident scene. The
victim has been covered over with a red tarpaulin and none
of the ambulance crew is administering any kind of
attention so you have to assume the worst.

For anyone familiar with the traffic markings on
Blackfriars Bridge, this incident probably won't come as a
huge surprise.

On the northbound carriageway (where the incident
happened), the left hand lane is for traffic coming off
the bridge and on to the Embankment. There are two lanes
to the right for traffic heading straight on at the
northern side of the bridge. There's a cycle lane (dotted
lines) marked between the left hand lane and the straight
on lane. I think the bus hit the cyclist as it pulled out
of a bus stop in the left hand lane and was crossing over
the cycle lane so it could go straight ahead at the other
side of the bridge.

Damn. I often take that exact northbound route but it's,
well, challenging . It's deceptively steep, slowing you in
the southern part and then concealing you when you crest
it. And the bus-stop is placed so that bus drivers must
find manouevering into the straight-ahead lane gets
increasingly awkward the longer it's delayed. IOW, that
could have been me....

I suppose I'll learn more horrid details tomorrow.
--
Ben

Ben said:

Quoted message said:

On the northbound carriageway (where the incident
happened), the left hand lane is for traffic coming off
the bridge and on to the Embankment. There are two lanes
to the right for traffic heading straight on at the
northern side of the bridge. There's a cycle lane (dotted
lines) marked between the left hand lane and the straight
on lane. I think the bus hit the cyclist as it pulled out
of a bus stop in the left hand lane and was crossing over
the cycle lane so it could go straight ahead at the other
side of the bridge.

Damn. I often take that exact northbound route but it's,
well, challenging . It's deceptively steep, slowing you in
the southern part and then concealing you when you crest
it. And the bus-stop is placed so that bus drivers must
find manouevering into the straight-ahead lane gets
increasingly awkward the longer it's delayed. IOW, that
could have been me....

I was going to take that route around 7.15pm - but it was
still closed then. Knowing the cause just makes it worse.

Colin McKenzie

--
Why believe statistics? Ignore them and you can believe the
damned lies instead!

Colin McKenzie said:

I was going to take that route around 7.15pm - but it was
still closed then. Knowing the cause just makes it worse.

I cycled over there at about 10.45ish and didn't even see
anything to suggest anything had happened. Makes you think
about the chances of it being you next time. Their poor
family. :-(

Simon

"Richard Goodman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Sad, and bad. This is what I hate about cyclepaths -
poorly designed facilities really are worse than no
facilities at all - and I can't think of any I've seen
that are preferable to the road, although I'm sure there
exist a minority that are.

According to Simon Mason there are some decent ones in York.
Nearly all the ones I know in and around London are
terrible; a select few are just poor.

Quoted message said:

The vast majority are a disservice to cyclists, and
especially to novices who are most likely to use them.
It's crazy - put in schemes that put the people
already most at risk at even more risk. That's all
most of them do.

Dangerous places, cycle lanes.

--
Dave...

Richard Goodman said:

This is what I hate about cyclepaths - poorly designed
facilities really are worse than no facilities at all - and
I can't think of any I've seen that are preferable to the
road, although I'm sure there exist a minority that are.

Hi Richard

I'd agree with that. The only one I can think of locally is
<http://makeashorterlink.com/?S2EC52448> The path is between
the roandabout where is says A2032 and Ferring village. The
A259 dual carrageway used to have two lanes in each
direction; the west-bound lane now has only one.

The "missing" lane now has cross hatches and a cycle area
nearer to the kerb. This road layout is between the A2032
map marking and the first turn into Ferring (slightly NNE of
the G in Ferring). There are no cycle provisions between
that turning and the next left turn into the village and
that's where they are really needed because of traffic
lights and residential turnings. (I'm assuming here that
paths are needed at all, of course.)

Between that second turn into Ferring and the next
roundabout (north of the F in Ferring) the road reverts to
two lanes in each carrageway and there is a lovely smooth
pavement on the west bound side. This path is shielded from
the wind by a hedge. There are a few turnings into garden
centres and the like but one can see the road quite itself
from the pavement quite easily. Equally, traffic on the road
has a good view of bike, horses and peds on the path.
Whether those on the road react to the pavement traffic is a
different matter.

There are many cycle "facilities" in Worthing and nearby but
the one I've mentioned is the only one that is reasnably
well designed.

Having said that, the old, two lane dual carrageway worked
well and was perfectly safe, IMO.

When the first part of this facility was being constructed -
the part with the single lane - it was divided from the rest
of the road by a length of twine!! Not so easy to see in the
dark, as I found out the hard way. I almost but not quite
rebounded off the taut twine into the road.

James

<multimap.combrowse.cgiOpen ↗
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&addr1=&addr2=&addr3=&pc=&advanced=&local=&scale=100000&up.-
x=8&up.y=9

I wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

According to Simon Mason there are some decent ones
in York.

Oops. Hull of course. Apologies to both cities.

--
Dave...

I'm sure theres something to be done by way of rememberance.

28/05/04 6pm NFT

Simon Proven said:

Colin McKenzie said:

I was going to take that route around 7.15pm - but it was
still closed then. Knowing the cause just makes it worse.

I cycled over there at about 10.45ish and didn't even see
anything to suggest anything had happened. Makes you think
about the chances of it being you next time. Their poor
family. :-(

Simon

Fair enough, but bus drivers don't pay attention to
anything that's smaller than the bus! I think that they are
worst than taxi drivers and white van drivers put together
when it comes to attitudes towards cyclists! Of course that
they are exceptions, but I've learned to stay away from
them whenever possible.

--
Vivian
-------
"We learned more from a three minute record than we ever learned in school".
No Surrender

"Richard Goodman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"davek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

At the time of posting (5.55pm Monday), Blackfriars Bridge is closed due
to a cyclist having been knocked down by a bus.

I'm in the IPC tower at the moment, right next to the bridge, with a
bird's eye view of the accident scene. The victim has been covered over
with a red tarpaulin and none of the ambulance crew is administering any
kind of attention so you have to assume the worst.

For anyone familiar with the traffic markings on Blackfriars Bridge,
this incident probably won't come as a huge surprise.

On the northbound carriageway (where the incident happened), the left
hand lane is for traffic coming off the bridge and on to the Embankment.
There are two lanes to the right for traffic heading straight on at the
northern side of the bridge. There's a cycle lane (dotted lines) marked
between the left hand lane and the straight on lane. I think the bus hit
the cyclist as it pulled out of a bus stop in the left hand lane and was
crossing over the cycle lane so it could go straight ahead at the other
side of the bridge.

Sad, and bad. This is what I hate about cyclepaths - poorly designed
facilities really are worse than no facilities at all - and I can't think

of

Quoted message said:

any I've seen that are preferable to the road, although I'm sure there

exist

Quoted message said:

a minority that are. The vast majority are a disservice to cyclists, and
especially to novices who are most likely to use them. It's crazy - put

in

Quoted message said:

schemes that put the people already most at risk at even more risk.

That's

Quoted message said:

all most of them do.

Rich

davek said:

At the time of posting (5.55pm Monday), Blackfriars
Bridge is closed due to a cyclist having been knocked
down by a bus.

I'm in the IPC tower at the moment, right next to the
bridge, with a bird's eye view of the accident scene. The
victim has been covered over with a red tarpaulin and none
of the ambulance crew is administering any kind of
attention so you have to assume the worst.

For anyone familiar with the traffic markings on
Blackfriars Bridge, this incident probably won't come as a
huge surprise.

On the northbound carriageway (where the incident
happened), the left hand lane is for traffic coming off
the bridge and on to the Embankment. There are two lanes
to the right for traffic heading straight on at the
northern side of the bridge. There's a cycle lane (dotted
lines) marked between the left hand lane and the straight
on lane. I think the bus hit the cyclist as it pulled out
of a bus stop in the left hand lane and was crossing over
the cycle lane so it could go straight ahead at the other
side of the bridge.

d.

--

The bridge is part of my morning commute. There are two
"road death" signs this morning on either pavement asking
for witnesses/information. I didn't get a chance to read
them and this thread now confirms what I feared. This
particular cycle lane is one of the worst and should be
scrapped before another cyclist is killed or seriously
injured. It's the second in 15mths that I know of, the last
being the chinese waiter and grandfather who was killed by a
motorcyclist who never stopped in feb2003.

davep

"Vivian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Fair enough, but bus drivers don't pay attention to
anything that's

smaller

Quoted message said:

than the bus! I think that they are worst than taxi
drivers and white van drivers put together when it comes
to attitudes towards cyclists! Of

course

Quoted message said:

that they are exceptions, but I've learned to stay away
from them whenever possible.

To be fair to bus drivers, I was a motorbike courier in
London for a year or so, and found the bus drivers to be
very considerate and thoughtful. I don't leave anything to
chance, but it was nice to see that people were watching out
for me in their mirrors rather than just leaving it to me to
avoid getting squashed.

Taxi drivers (black cabs) are pretty rude, but they are
professional and usually know how to use the road safely,
apart from the sudden U turns. The worst offenders are
probably white vans, because they can sometimes be driven by
people with less than the recommended level of driving
ability, aherm. (And don't start complaining, because I've
done that too!)

Simon Brooke said:

in message <40a168d0$0$25327$cc9e4d1f@news-
text.dial.pipex.com>, masser

(') said:

I'm sure theres something to be done by way of
rememberance.

How's about, as an act of rememberence, a letter to the
Times or Grauniad signed by several cyclists familiar with
the junction, explaining why this cycle lane arrangement
is dangerous and suggesting in the light of this death it
be removed before someone else is killed?

The co-ordinator of City Cyclists sent round an email this
morning about this incident. You could contact him via
citycyclists.org.ukcitycyclists.org.ukOpen ↗ to suggest this.

ps. Sympathy to this poor person, and the family left
behind.

Rick no@thanks opined the following...

Quoted message said:

To be fair to bus drivers, I was a motorbike courier in
London for a year or so, and found the bus drivers to be
very considerate and thoughtful. I don't leave anything to
chance, but it was nice to see that people were watching
out for me in their mirrors rather than just leaving it to
me to avoid getting squashed.

The only time I've ever had to hop onto the kerb was when a
bus pulled up next to me at a roundabout and then started
out before I did (I couldn't see... there was a bus in the
way). The cab was clear of me, but the middle swung in and I
had to abort the clip in and haul the bike sideways to avoid
being squashed. I chased him the best part of Queen's Street
(For those that know Edinburgh) but failed to catch him,
which was probably for the best as I was going for the
emergency stop and a fist fight.

To put that in perspective, with the exception of being
brushed by a bus once, I've had less grief from the numerous
buses around town than from the car drivers who fill in the
gaps in the traffic! I've also noticed a general change in
driving standards recently. Might be a slight reduction in
the number of cars due to improved weather or a change in
the manner in which I cycle.

Quoted message said:

Taxi drivers (black cabs) are pretty rude, but they are
professional and usually know how to use the road safely,
apart from the sudden U turns.

Taxi drivers were one of my biggest sources of annoyment,
and their driving style always leaves me embarrassed when
I'm in one, but they too are improving. I also once met a
taxi driver who ranted about how badly most other taxis
treated cyclists as he drove me to the station. I wish I'd
got his number so that I could use him more often.

Quoted message said:

The worst offenders are probably white vans, because they
can sometimes be driven by people with less than the
recommended level of driving ability, aherm. (And don't
start complaining, because I've done that too!)

Agreed. The idea that having taken your test in a Corsa (Or
similar sized car) with "anti-blindspot" mirrors, a rearview
mirror and similar mod-cons, you can jump into a long
wheelbase transit with a total weight of up to 3.5T and
handle it is farcical. As someone who is approaching a
training course on 16T trucks, I can't help but think how
useful it would have been to have had at least a days
qualified instruction before starting out driving vans.

Jon

In message <[email hidden]>,
Rick <no@thanks.?.invalid> writes

Quoted message said:

Taxi drivers (black cabs) are pretty rude, but they are
professional and usually know how to use the road
safely, apart from the sudden U turns. The worst
offenders are probably white vans, because they can
sometimes be driven by people with less than the
recommended level of driving ability

Taxis have given me most of my scariest moments, and usually
when they've spotted a ped waving to them from the pavement,
but it doesn't seem to register that I'm between them and
their next fare.

Now when I see a ped waving, I assume a taxi is about to
swoop in front of me at any second.

However, I find Royal Mail van drivers amongst the most
inconsiderate on the roads.

--
congokid Good restaurants in London? Number one on Google
congokid.comcongokid.comOpen ↗

In message <[email hidden]>,
Rick <no@thanks.?.invalid> writes

Quoted message said:

Taxi drivers (black cabs) are pretty rude, but they are
professional and usually know how to use the road
safely, apart from the sudden U turns. The worst
offenders are probably white vans, because they can
sometimes be driven by people with less than the
recommended level of driving ability

Taxis have given me most of my scariest moments, and usually
when they've spotted a ped waving to them from the pavement,
but it doesn't seem to register that I'm between them and
their next fare.

Now when I see a ped waving, I assume a taxi is about to
swoop in front of me at any second.

However, I find Royal Mail van drivers amongst the most
inconsiderate on the roads.

--
congokid Good restaurants in London? Number one on Google
congokid.comcongokid.comOpen ↗

congokid said:

However, I find Royal Mail van drivers amongst the most
inconsiderate on the roads.

And on pavements too :-(

John B