In Japan, language limits, want bike

vitamin s said:

okay guys,

i know this subject is like beating a dead horse at this point. this forum is filled with opinions, and trust me, i have read as much as i can. i know i need to test ride bikes to find the best fit. the problem is, i am in japan teaching english and dont speak much japanese. i have a japanese friend who is going to go to the bike shop with me to find a bike, but i wanted to get as much info as i can before i step into the shop.

i am 5'4 121 lbs, and am in decent shape. i have been looking at the felt f75, and it seems like a good bike for me (i cant go much more expensive), but id like to buy a japanese made bike since i would probably be paying for import taxes and tariffs and whatnot if i go with a felt.

i have seen some japanese bikes in a local shop, but they all use the tiagra components on bikes in my price range. do you think that i should pay the extra dough to get the 105 stuff? will it matter much? i wont be racing but did centuries periodically back home and would like to do some hard rides here in japan.

also in regards to my size, 650cc wheels, or 700? do i even have a choice in this matter?

discuss. thanks in advance!

Do they still make bikes in Japan? Other than expensive custom jobs? Don't assume taxes will break the deal, find some various bikes that you like and compare the real bottom line.

At 5'4" I think you're probably fine with 700c wheels. 650s are a good answer for short people but are enough of a hassle that you probably don't want to go that way unless you have to.

105 is good stuff, Tiagra is OK stuff. Depends how much you'll be riding I guess.

Get the 105, it'll last longer. As for taxes on importing frames....I've imported 5 frames over the years, and the most I've ever paid was about 5,000 yen in duties. There are some nice frames made in Japan (Ravanello, 3 Rensho, Testach, etc) , but they're a bit pricy. The other route is to get a mass-produced bike like the Panasonic. Don't know what they're like now, but in the past the quality wasn't bad on their mid-range stuff. In any case, all I'm trying to say is you've got lots of options, don't let import duties hold you back. Rather, I would be concerned about shipping costs - this can vary lots depending where you order from.

5'4" with 29" inseam here. You'll be able to fit on 700c wheels. It may have a bit of toe overlap. I ride a 51 cm, for reference. Slightly large for me.

Well man you should go with what you like as you'll probably be riding it alot. I use 26" rims with Bontrager Connection tires and am just fine with it as it fits me fine and i have a personal preference for the bike as im a city rider and need a bike that fits me fine and that i can get off- road with.

Cool - a discussion on bikes in Japan. Looking forward to read what people have to say.

What is your budget in JPY? What's your location? You can find great custom frames in Japan at decent prices (like JPY80,000-150,000 for frame), as someone has already mentioned. 3Rensho is no longer around, but you can find builders who came out of the same tradition making beautiful stuff. The lead time can be long, though.

If you want a mass production type of frame, take a look at Anchor brand bikes (related to Bridgestone). They have put a lot of effort recently into offering an attractive line of bikes. The price is good, and you can pick from a lot of different colors. Not sure if the frames are made in Japan, though.

Make sure to buy your bike at a decent bike shop - often called "Pro Shops" by the Japanese. A good proshop will fit you on a jig, order the frame of your choosing, and put it together with parts to meet your price. Don't forget to negotiate, as the price can drop by quite a bit. You can't negotiate at the big retail stores, but smaller places will work a lot with you. Never get anything at the list price.

As for components, I agree 105 over Tiagra is the way to go.

thanks for all of the responses guys.

i am in the final stages of buying a bike and am finding that all the affordable bikes are imports anyways. the anchor bike that someone mentioned is the only japanese bike that could fit within my budget. but, they did not have any in my size that i could test.

so, at this point, i have only tested a trek 1400 that a bike shop had in my size. it rides like a champ and i like everything on the bike. the wheels are [censored] according to lots of people on these boards, but i wont be able to tell until i put some hard miles onto the bike.

also, a couple dealers here sell the giant bikes, but none of the ones in my area have any in stock. they say that the giant tcr is a better bang for the buck compared to the trek, but i would have to order it first and put down a %10 non-refundable deposit on the bike before i could actually see it and test ride it. too risky for me. also, the one dealer who i liked the best and did a full measurement on me said that the giant bikes might be a little bit of a stretch since my torso is relatively short compared to my inseam. do you guys think this holds any weight? i couldnt tell you since i havent seen the giant.

another thing is that the trek they have in the shop is a trek 1400, which i cannot find anywhere on the trek usa website. are they selling me a model that trek took off the market for some reason?

the price they quote me at was 175000 yen, which is roughly $1450 u.s.
am i getting a good deal on a bike that is fully equipped with 2007 shimano 105 parts? from what i could understand, the dealer was saying he thinks that the 2007 105 groupset is better than the 2006 and that its worth the extra money. the 2007 105 apparently moved to a 10 speed from a 9 speed, and is more similar to the dura ace line than previously? am i correct on this?

my budget that im shooting for is japanese yen 200,000 but i still need to buy pedals, shoes and a computer. im in the inland part of hiroshima prefecture in a town called fuchu. the town is small as hell, and the terrain has lots of short hills that i will probably be doing the bulk of my riding on.

and, just for some additional info on japanese made bikes for anyone who is interested, the nicest bikes i could see in the shops were bikes made by intermax. the frames were looking sweet. they seem like some serious machines. anyways, the only ones in the shop were costing way more than anything i can afford at this point.

thanks for all the responses. i will be doing as much research as i can in japan, so if you all have questions or anything, ill try to answer as best as i can. my japanese is [censored], and my friend actually wasnt much help, but ill do my best.

cheers

Have you seen Yahoo auctions?
Nice source for a good selection of bikes.
High-end stuff does cost more in Japan so $ for $ you can't compare.
Check out Cannondale's line...🙂

vitamin s said:

okay guys,

i know this subject is like beating a dead horse at this point. this forum is filled with opinions, and trust me, i have read as much as i can. i know i need to test ride bikes to find the best fit. the problem is, i am in japan teaching english and dont speak much japanese. i have a japanese friend who is going to go to the bike shop with me to find a bike, but i wanted to get as much info as i can before i step into the shop.

i am 5'4 121 lbs, and am in decent shape. i have been looking at the felt f75, and it seems like a good bike for me (i cant go much more expensive), but id like to buy a japanese made bike since i would probably be paying for import taxes and tariffs and whatnot if i go with a felt.

i have seen some japanese bikes in a local shop, but they all use the tiagra components on bikes in my price range. do you think that i should pay the extra dough to get the 105 stuff? will it matter much? i wont be racing but did centuries periodically back home and would like to do some hard rides here in japan.

also in regards to my size, 650cc wheels, or 700? do i even have a choice in this matter?

discuss. thanks in advance!

I haven't used Tiagra, but from what I understand, it is as utilitarian as the 105 components of comparable heritage (i.e., 9-speed).

I've used 8-and-9-speed Shimano shifters (Ultegra & 105), but have found them to be unsatisfactory for most of the riding we do (i.e., mountain roads). I was briefly planning on using a pair of 9-speed Shimano 105 shifters that I had allowed to languish (for want of a bike) on a potential in-city bike where the "hills" are less severe, but I was spared the potential anguish when I sold them on eBay.

The 10-speed Shimano shifters are supposedly better than the Shimano 9-speed shifters; but, Campagnolo shifters (except XENON) are better, still, because they just shift better AND are less expensive (unless you get the high-zoot RECORD-or-CHORUS shifters)!

With the Campagnolo shifters, you can downshift to a larger cog in the rear (presuming your cassette has a larger cog than the one you are in) when under load ... with the 9-speed Shimano shifters, you pretty much have to be in the gear you want to be in before the ascent OR dump out to a granny on a triple ... but, supposedly, the 10-speed Shimano shifters are better at handling downshifting under load, but that is hearsay until I get around to testing a pair.

AFAIK, most of rural Japan is hilly/mountainous, so, presuming you're in the hinterland where the roads are generally not level, the Campagnolo shifters are something you should try to find already equipped on a bike.

So, FWIW, lacking other choices, I would get the Tiagra or 2006/9-speed 105 equipped bike -- THAT presumes that you can't find one already equipped with Campagnolo Veloce [or, better Campagnolo components] -- e.g., Bianchi, and others -- and, when the 9-speed Shimano Tiagra/105/whatever shifters failed (allow 10,000 miles +/- depending on the frequency of your shifting), I would get a pair of Campagnolo shifters for the otherwise Shimano equipped bike.

NB. The 10 speed Campagnolo shifters can be readily/easily indexed to Shimano 8-/9-speed drivetrains ... undoubedly, when using the appropriate JTEK SHIFTMATE the Campagnolo shifters can also work with the 10-speed Shimano drivetrains.

"No" to 650c wheels/tires in most circumstances for most people because the tire selection seems to be more limited than for almost-obsolete 27" wheels.

Because parts wear out OR preferences change, having wheels which are Shimano-compatible is a plus in the real world because you will have more cassette options in a broader range of prices.

BTW. If you were to buy the bike which has 9-speed Shimano 105 shifters, you could probably sell the 9-speed 105 shifters (eBay) USED for more than the replacement cost of a new pair Campagnolo CENTAUR-or-VELOCE 10-speed shifters (eBay, again). A pair of "new" take-off 9-speed 105 shifters would command a premium over the "replacement" cost of a pair of NIB Veloce shifters.

A less satisfactory option for most people is to buy ALMOST ANY used bike and install Campagnolo shifters on it as either part of a complete "group" or mixed with Shimano components.

Unbelievably said:

Have you seen Yahoo auctions?
Nice source for a good selection of bikes.
High-end stuff does cost more in Japan so $ for $ you can't compare.
Check out Cannondale's line...🙂

is there any way to view the yahoo japan auction in english?

vitamin s said:

is there any way to view the yahoo japan auction in english?

No, not that I know of. I use the auction quite a bit for both selling and buying, and there is a statement in the contract that specifically says something along the lines of "by using the site, you acknowledge that you are able to read and understand Japanese"; ie, they are not responsible for any problems you might have if you don't understand the language. Something to beware of. However, yes, there are often good things to be found - do you have any good friends that could help you with reading through the listings?
Another solution to your dilema (along the same lines), would be to order something mailorder in Japan - the shipping costs are (surprisingly!!) rather cheap domestically. And if you order from Tokyo or Osaka from a reputable place ,for example, Narushima Friend, Koseki (excellent service), Uemura Parts, Asahi Cycles...there's lots, and the prices are fairly good. The *big caveat emptor*, however is: you gotta know your size! Get fitted, record the measurements for your reach (top tube length + stem), and inseam (although on a sloping this won't matter much as long as you got enough seatpost). For a first-time bike, if you're unsure, the margin for error is greater on a sloping frame, as you just need to know if your torso will fit comfortably, so you might want to consider that as well. (Also gotta be sure the head tube is tall enough and consider how many spacers you might have to use)
Sorry for the length, I really hope you can find something and start riding soon!

I have lived in Japan for 11 years or so. I bought a Cannondale R700 and as someone suggested in an earlier post, negotiated the price. I found it was exactly the same price as buying it in the US.

Where are you in Japan? If you're anywhere near Nagoya or you can get to Nagoya, I'll take you to a fantastic bike shop and negotiate a good price for you.
If you live within 100 miles of Nagoya, you could cycle home.😉 TYSON

Excellent idea, Sillyoldtwit. Going to the shop in person is really the best bet as far as fitting the bike and choosing your heart's desire, if you have someone like Sillyoldtwit to help you language-wise, then it would be worth your time to take a trip to Nagoya. Also, I will second the Cannondale idea - I just bought a CAAD 9 in December - after calculating the exchange rate, it really came out about the same as it would have been in the US (well, a tiny bit more, but not significantly so). Although, Cannondale doesn't allow their dealers to sell by mailorder. Beware, though, as some unscrupulous types WILL agree to sell you one like that...effectively nulling the warranty.

BikingBrian said:

Excellent idea, Sillyoldtwit. Going to the shop in person is really the best bet as far as fitting the bike and choosing your heart's desire, if you have someone like Sillyoldtwit to help you language-wise, then it would be worth your time to take a trip to Nagoya. Also, I will second the Cannondale idea - I just bought a CAAD 9 in December - after calculating the exchange rate, it really came out about the same as it would have been in the US (well, a tiny bit more, but not significantly so). Although, Cannondale doesn't allow their dealers to sell by mailorder. Beware, though, as some unscrupulous types WILL agree to sell you one like that...effectively nulling the warranty.

Good advice there BB. It probably involves a bit of effort on his part but it's better that he gets the right bike for him and he doesn't buy a pig in a poke.

TYSON

vitamin s said:

and, just for some additional info on japanese made bikes for anyone who is interested, the nicest bikes i could see in the shops were bikes made by intermax. the frames were looking sweet. they seem like some serious machines.

Intermax is the brand started by Imanaka Daisuke, the only Japanese person to have ever ridden in the Tour de France. They probably are decent machines. For me, I chatted with an LBS about them some time back and ended up not being too psyched because it sounded like the company did not have any technology of its own. I preferred to buy from somewhere that could do it's own design and prototyping (at least). Intermax also distributes for some foreign brands (Kuota, for one). Hope these comments don't offend any Intermax owners out there. If there are any, I'd actually like to hear about your experiences with them.

Sounds like it might be worth your while to take a trip to a bigger city to buy your ride. Hiroshima looks like the closest city to Fuchu. If you can get to Osaka, you'll definitely find some great stores. As someone else mentioned, mail order is a decent way to go, too. I've gotten some parts mail order in Japan, and the price/service was very good (Shimano parts were cheaper than in US). But you'll need to find someone who can help with the language.

thanks for all of the good responses. yeah, id like to get to a bigger city, and thanks for all of the offers. one of these days, ill have to get out of my town and ride with all of you. for the moment, im leaning towards not travelling too far out of my area to buy, but i was wondering if you all might have some time to post links to various websites? that would be a great help so i could see what type of prices i need to shoot for. as always, thanks in advance. this has been really helpful.

Here's some links to some popular online shops if you would like to get an idea about prices and such.

www.uemura-cyc.com

homepage3.nifty.com/askeycycle/

www.cb-asahi.co.jp/

www.nalsimafrend.jp/

http://www.kyoto.zaq.ne.jp/koseki-cycle/index.html

www.cycle-yoshida.com/

http://www.shimazaki-c.co.jp/index.html

And here's the Panasonic site, they've got a catalog up of models. If there's a shop near you that sells Panasonic, then what they do is measure you, and the frame is somewhat customized (depending on the model) at the factory before being shipped to the dealer. I rode a steel model about 15 years ago, as I remember, the quality was pretty good for the price. There's an english section also, although you need to look at the Japanese side to see the prices:
www.panabyc.co.jp/

Hope that helps!

brian, thanks for those links.

the prices on that cycle yoshida website are rockin. do you have experience buying from them? should i resist the urge to buy online before trying the bike out? the trek 1400 is 25,000yen cheaper on the website compared to my lbs. thats a hell of a difference.

vitamin s said:

brian, thanks for those links.

the prices on that cycle yoshida website are rockin. do you have experience buying from them? should i resist the urge to buy online before trying the bike out? the trek 1400 is 25,000yen cheaper on the website compared to my lbs. thats a hell of a difference.

Yeah, that's 2 hours work for me. Tyson😄

vitamin s said:

brian, thanks for those links.

the prices on that cycle yoshida website are rockin. do you have experience buying from them? should i resist the urge to buy online before trying the bike out? the trek 1400 is 25,000yen cheaper on the website compared to my lbs. thats a hell of a difference.

Sorry, I've only bought insoles from them (no problems), so I can't tell you much more, except they advertise in the Japanese magazine Cycle Sports a lot. Yeah, I think it would be a good idea to at least get your size sorted first before ordering, if you were thinking of going that route.