Ignorant New Guy questions

Hans K0HB said:

Marin calls this a "comfort" bike. How is that different from a "road" bike, or an "urban" bike,
or a "trail" bike?

This will have wide tires, upright, swept-back bars, maybe some sort of springs/shocks in the front
(and maybe seatpost). It will have a fat, soft seat. A road bike, by contrast, will have drop bars
(the ends curl down rather than up and back), with brake levers that are vertical rather than
horizontal. It will have skinnier tires, a harder, thinner saddle. It will come with higher gear
ratios, and will be lighter. I don't know what an "urban" bike would be. A trail bike, or mountain
bike, will have straighter bars than a comfort bike, tires that are even fatter and which have heavy
tread, and more serious suspension. It might have even lower gear ratios than a comfort bike. A
mountain bike will also be lighter than the comfort bike, but not as light as a road bike.

"Comfor" is an advertising term. For long trips, a road bike will be more comfortable -- after you
get used to it. For short trips (under 20 miles) a comfort bike should be fine, and it does not take
so much getting used to.

Quoted message said:

My bike has 24 gears (3 level front sprocket and 8 level rear sprocket). Seems like I normally
travel with the front sprocket in the highest gear and the rear in 6 or 7.

Is it nearly the smallest sprocket you are talking about? Seems so. I would work towards being
comfortable in a lower gear if I were you. Your feet will be moving faster, and after a while that
becomes better overall.

Quoted message said:

? When shifting to go up a grade does it make more sense to drop 1 gear on the front sprocket, or
2 or 3 gears on the rear sprocket?

Depends on the grade. If it is really steep, and you think you may have to shift again once half-way
up, definitely start by shifting the front down. The reason is that the rear shifts more easily
under a load, and you will have more gears to go to when the hill gets tough. But for relatively
gentle climbs it's up to you; you can achieve the same gear ratio either way.

Quoted message said:

How often/what sort of lubricants should I use on crank bearings and wheel bearings?

Any good grease will do. No need to get special bike grease. The grease sold in bike shops is more
expensive for smaller quantities of the same stuff sold in auto parts stores. I use lithium based
grease so my balls won't be depressed.

I have grease ports in my hubs, so I can shoot some grease in from time to time. If you don't, you
should re-grease them every 5000 miles, about. More often in rainy conditions. I'd replace the balls
then, too.

But many bearings are "sealed", or cartidge bearings, that are designed often to not be servicable
by average home mechanics. Many bottom brackets (crank bearings) and pedals are this way, as are
some wheel bearings and headsets. Basically, use them till they go bad, then take it to the shop. It
should take over 10,000 miles for this, mileage you will not likely see in the life of a comfort
bike. Of course, rain lowers the lifespan of any bearing.

More of a concern will be the chain. It should be removed from the bike and cleaned regularly, then
re-oiled and replaced. Many chains have a "master link" making this easy. Ask about that. After some
use, typically a few thousand miles, the chain will wear enough to "stretch", so that 12 full links
measure more than 12" long. When the length gets to 12 +1/16", it's time to replace the chain.
Leaving it on beyond 12+1/8" will mean that you need to replace the sprockets in the rear as well.

Quoted message said:

I'm reasonably mechanical, but are there special tricks to setting up bearing tighness, etc.?

Yeah, some. You will need a few special tools. Check with your local shop. Bearings should be tight
enough to not have any play, but not so tight that they bind. Wheel bearings are particularly fussy,
since the quick release lever tightens the bearings slightly when it is tightened down. You want the
bearing adjustment correct with the QR clamped down, not when it is loose. Takes a bit of fussing to
get that right.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a _`\(,_ | conclusion. --
George Bernard Shaw (_)/ (_) |

Hans K0HB said:

My new bike is a Marin "Redwood", which I bought without much education but which luckily I
like a lot.

Marin calls this a "comfort" bike. How is that different from a "road" bike, or an "urban" bike,
or a "trail" bike?

"Road bike" generally means a road racing bike, with close-ratio gears, narrow tyres, and drop
handlebars. The other categories are somewhat nebulous, and one manufacturer's "trail bike" may be
another's "hybrid" or "comfort bike".

"Comfort bike" is a description adopted by a number of bike companies looking for a new marketing
category. It generally means an upright riding position, soft saddle, and usually some form of
suspension - either a sprung seatpost, or fork, or both. It has a lot in common with a typical
"hybrid", but most hybrids come with 700c wheels, while most comfort bikes use the 26" mountain bike
format. Marin now sells its hybrids as "city bikes".

An "urban bike" could be anything from a dutch-style roadster with a chaincase, dynamo lighting and
enclosed gears and brakes, to the road-modified rigid mountain bikes sold by Marin and Scott. A
"trail bike" could be a comfort bike or a hybrid (for leisure rides on bike trails), or it could
refer to a cross-country mountain bike. The definitions aren't fixed.

Quoted message said:

My bike has 24 gears (3 level front sprocket and 8 level rear sprocket). Seems like I normally
travel with the front sprocket in the highest gear and the rear in 6 or 7. When shifting to go up
a grade does it make more sense to drop 1 gear on the front sprocket, or 2 or 3 gears on the rear
sprocket?

It's a good idea to avoid extreme chain angles caused by using the largest chainrings with the
largest sprockets (and the smallest with the smallest). If by "6 or 7" you're talking about the
larger sprockets, it would make more sense to change to the middle chainring, unless cresting a
short, steep rise. Plan ahead, and choose your chainring accordingly.

Quoted message said:

How often/what sort of lubricants should I use on crank bearings and wheel bearings?

Most crank (bottom bracket) bearings are sealed for the life of the unit these days, and aren't
designed to be lubricated by the user. Any general-purpose grease will do for the hubs. Maintenance
intervals will depend on mileage and weather, but once a year should be adequate for reasonably
sealed hubs.

Quoted message said:

I'm reasonably mechanical, but are there special tricks to setting up bearing tighness, etc.?

Sheldon Brown's site is the most comprehensive cycling resource on the web. The index to his repair
section is here, hub adjustment being the first entry:

sheldonbrown.comindex.htmlOpen ↗

HTH

James Thomson

Hans K0HB said:

Excuse the ignorance of a new guy, but I just got back into bicycling --- My last bike was a 1950's
Schwinn with fat tires, a good knee-action spring arrangement in the front fork, and a tank with a
horn in it.

My new bike is a Marin "Redwood", which I bought without much education but which luckily I like a
lot. After reading posts here, it's evident to me that there a lot of basic things of which I am
totally ignorant.

Marin calls this a "comfort" bike. How is that different from a "road" bike, or an "urban" bike, or
a "trail" bike?

You can look through the Marin web site to see what they mean by each term. Basically, the terms
refer to what they consider the optimum use of the design, based on components, geometry, materials,
etc. Also what they think will sell.

Quoted message said:

My bike has 24 gears (3 level front sprocket and 8 level rear sprocket). Seems like I normally
travel with the front sprocket in the highest gear and the rear in 6 or 7. When shifting to go up a
grade does it make more sense to drop 1 gear on the front sprocket, or 2 or 3 gears on the rear
sprocket?

If the largest rear cog is '1' and the smallest is '8' then I'd drop the front to the middle after 6
or 5. Look at the angle of the chain as you move up the rear cogs. The straighter the chain, the
less wear on it.

Quoted message said:

How often/what sort of lubricants should I use on crank bearings and wheel bearings? I'm reasonably
mechanical, but are there special tricks to setting up bearing tighness, etc.?

The bottom bracket bearings are sealed and will need no maintenance. The wheel bearing use grease
(which type is open to tons of debate, but realize that with one bike and repacking the wheels twice
a year, even an overpirced bike shop tube of grease will last many years). Good to replace the
actual ball bearings every now and then.

The basic concept for cup and cone bearings is - as loose as possible without any play.

You might want to check the hubs right away. I bought a Marin bike at about the same price a few
months ago (the Muirwoods), and both hubs were very poorly adjusted. Adjusting hubs can be annoying
until you get the knack of how much the nuts move as you counter-tighten them. This could be a good
thing to have someone at the bike shop show you. Go at a slow time, buy the tools (cone wrenches),
ask them to show you a bit, and offer to pay.

Quoted message said:

Be gentle --- I know some of this stuff is pretty basic.

Thanks,

Hans

Along with the Sheldon Brown site mentioned, this is a helpful site-

parktool.comFAQindex.shtmlOpen ↗

But they aren't the only tool company out there.

Welcome back to bicycling.

"Hans K0HB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

My bike has 24 gears (3 level front sprocket and 8 level rear sprocket). Seems like I normally
travel with the front sprocket in the highest gear and the rear in 6 or 7. When shifting to go up
a grade does it make more sense to drop 1 gear on the front sprocket, or 2 or 3 gears on the rear
sprocket?

Generally speaking, derailleur gearing these days is on a 'crossover' setup.

The three chainrings (sprockets) in front select general ranges. The smallest one is for climbing
long hills under load. The middle one is for general use. The largest one is for going
fast--descending, long fast stretches. These differ from each other by about 10 teeth, so a shift
from one chainring to another means a significant change in pedaling cadence for the rider.

The cogs out back--8 of them, in your case--on the other hand are usually spaced much closer
together: usually a 2-tooth difference. A shift on each of these doesn't change pedaling cadence
much. Shifting several times, over the whole block of them, will.

The entire idea of gearing is to enable your legs to turn at the optimum cadence, maximizing the
speed and distance you can get out of the bicycle. You will go farther if you avoid large changes in
cadence and keep plugging away with a nice, steady output; this means shifting often. When the going
is too hard, shift down. Too easy, shift up. "Optimum" cadence varies according to each individual
rider, but it will usually end up being close to 80 revolutions per minute. (Although some spin at
100 or more).

Advice: you're geared too high. Don't worry about front shifting, for now--set the front derailleur
to the middle chainring and forget about shifting it for a while. Shift the rear one, only. Turn
your legs faster, and keep that rate steady by shifting on the rear. You will soon feel your way
around the gears. Once you get to long hills and you run out of gears, shift the front chainring
DOWN while shifting the rear one UP several rings (to minimize the suddenness of the jump).

Also: NEVER run extreme chain-lines: large front/large rear; small front/small rear. As a rule, you
can use all 8 rear cogs when in the middle front chainring; the largest 4 rear cogs when in the
small chainring; and the smallest 4 when in the large chainring. Running extreme chain angles is a
very bad idea: it will wear down your drivetrain very quickly, and the amount of stress you'll put
on the chain may cause you to break it (not much fun).

for further reference:

<http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gearing/index.html> <http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears.html>

-Luigi

Quoted message said:

The entire idea of gearing is to enable your legs to turn at the optimum cadence, maximizing the
speed and distance you can get out of the bicycle. You will go farther if you avoid large
changes in

Quoted message said:

"Optimum" cadence varies according to each individual rider, but it will usually end up being
close to 80 revolutions per minute. (Although some spin at 100 or more).

Just some brief input to the rather excellent responses so far.

1. If your last bike was a '50's, then you are most likely in about my age group. I am just about
64 yo, and did not really start serious cycling until 1998. I stared out on a mtn bike, and then
bought a "road bike." I have ridden over 14,000 miles (not a lot by many bikers standards, but a
lot by my standards). I have about 8,000 miles on the mtn bike and abot 6,500 miles on the road
bike. Anyway, I have absolutely thoroughly enjoyed every single mile, and have done several
centuries (100 mile rides) and "Ridden the Rockies" twice. My wife now also joins me in biking
at times, and she has ridden abot 3,000 miles. So, my wish for you is that you also become
addicted to biking. It is a geat sport and activity, one we thoroughly enjoy. Welcome back.

2. In coutning your "cadence" some folks mistakenly think that 1/2 of a pedal revolution is a full
revolution, and think they are really pedaling fast, when they are only going 1/2 the rpm's.
Getting your cadence up is one of the more difficult but necessary steps for many returning
riders. A good cadence (80 rpm or over) will save your knees and will make you go faster and
noticeably esier.

So have fun. My bet is it won't be long before you want a road bike - they are markedly faster, and
after being continually passed by them, you will move in that direction. A road bike is like driving
a sports car, a mtn bike like driving a Jeep, and a "comfort Bike" like driving a big Buick sedan!!

Enjoy.

members.aol.comfoxcondorsrvtnsOpen ↗ (Colorado rental condo)

members.aol.comdnvrfoxOpen ↗ (Family Web Page)

"Hans K0HB" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Be gentle --- I know some of this stuff is pretty basic.

Thanks,

Hans

Wow, thanks guys. Lot's of stuff I didn't know. Since I'm more into "casual" easy-going biking, the
"80-rpm cadence" is counter-intuitive to me, but I'm sure it'll make sense as I go.

Thanks again,

Hans

--
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"Luigi de Guzman" <[email hidden]> wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Also: NEVER run extreme chain-lines: large front/large rear; small front/small rear. As a rule,
you can use all 8 rear cogs when in the middle front chainring; the largest 4 rear cogs when in
the small chainring; and the smallest 4 when in the large chainring. Running extreme chain angles
is a very bad idea: it will wear down your drivetrain very quickly, and the amount of stress
you'll put on the chain may cause you to break it (not much fun).

I think that advice is a little conservative. If you're content to use the entire cassette with the
middle chainring, the outer ring (only about 6mm outboard of the middle) should be good for all but
the two largest sprockets. The smallest chainring is a little different because chain tension
increases as chainring size decreases.

My ideal triple biases the chainline slightly inward. With a 9-speed cassette, I get eight usable
gears in each of the larger two rings and five on the granny. Middle-small is ruled out by chain
chatter against the big ring, but I do occasionally succumb to the temptation of big-big, and I'm
still here to write about it.

James Thomson