If recumbents were allowed

stratrider said:

If recumbents were allowed in the Tour as well as any other
professional race event, do you think any riders would switch or at
least experiment with recumbents?  My guess is they might switch for a
fairly flat time trial but that's it.  I have watched and marveled at
the pros as they dance on the pedals while climbing switchbacks so
steep I'd be looking for a ladder!  Under these conditions, I argue
the recumbent cannot compete.  Any thoughts?

Jim

Cycling's definitely going to evolve. In what ways... I don't know.

But, I definitely don't see it going towards recumbents. And, I don't
think we'll ever see a day when recumbents are allowed on the Tour.

That said, I wonder if there are races involving only recumbents. Has
anybody seen one?

Cullen

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

stratrider said:

If recumbents were allowed in the Tour as well as any other
professional race event, do you think any riders would switch or at
least experiment with recumbents? My guess is they might switch for a
fairly flat time trial but that's it. I have watched and marveled at
the pros as they dance on the pedals while climbing switchbacks so
steep I'd be looking for a ladder! Under these conditions, I argue
the recumbent cannot compete. Any thoughts?

Jim

Quoted message said:

Cycling's definitely going to evolve. In what ways... I don't know.

Quoted message said:

But, I definitely don't see it going towards recumbents. And, I don't
think we'll ever see a day when recumbents are allowed on the Tour.

Quoted message said:

That said, I wonder if there are races involving only recumbents. Has
anybody seen one?

Quoted message said:

Cullen

There are lots of recumbent races. The USA has HPRA and there are also IHPVA
races in the US and Europe. Since the races are 'human power' any kind of
bike can be raced. There is a racer from Michigan who races a Cervalo with a
small front fairing and lycra body sock. He's pretty fast, but the general
race crowd rides low racers.

You could take a look through www.recumbents.com for information and photos
of the human powered racers at several different venues over a period of
years.

gotbent aka frvt rider

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

stratrider said:

If recumbents were allowed in the Tour as well as any other
professional race event, do you think any riders would switch or at
least experiment with recumbents? My guess is they might switch for a
fairly flat time trial but that's it. I have watched and marveled at
the pros as they dance on the pedals while climbing switchbacks so
steep I'd be looking for a ladder! Under these conditions, I argue
the recumbent cannot compete. Any thoughts?

On a stage which is a pure climb then weight of the bike will have a
more significant beariung and aerodynamics will have less, as the speeds
are lower. So on a pure climb you'd probably lose out.

But on mixed (not just flat) sections it's not so simple as that...

In the 2003 Classique Genevoise there was a recumbent class, and the
recumbents took the day (see
http://www.m5-ligfietsen.nl/site/EN/Races_and_records/Classique_Genevoise/).
Now, M5's site only talks about the 2003 event, I don't know what
happened since then!

The UK "End to End" record has been held on a faired recumbent trike for
quite a few years now, and that's a *big* route (over 800 miles) with
lots of significant climbs, yet still the recumbent holds it.

PBP has yet to have a 'bent as the fastest, I think, but the fastest
'bent finshers are up with good times and of course they have far few
fewer riders who regularly race.

So I think more than flat time trials would see 'bents. And on the
track they'd be dynamite!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

<[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

stratrider said:

If recumbents were allowed in the Tour as well as any other
professional race event, do you think any riders would switch or at
least experiment with recumbents?

This is a thought experiment, as the TdF would never allow it.

My guess is that it would be difficult to convince racers who
commit years of training to UCI-specified bike racing to
embrace a different design. They simply wouldn't consider
it "bicycle racing". That's perfectly understandable.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My guess is they might switch for a
fairly flat time trial but that's it. I have watched and marveled at
the pros as they dance on the pedals while climbing switchbacks so
steep I'd be looking for a ladder!

Spin, spin, spin, to win has been the answer for mountainous
stages in recent TdF, hasn't it?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Under these conditions, I argue
the recumbent cannot compete. Any thoughts?

Oh, the "recumbents can't climb" discussion! %^)

Okay, imagine two bikes and riders of the same weight and
with the riders having the same power output capability.
One bike has a measurable aerodynamic advantage. All
other factors being equal, the more aerodynamic bike will
be faster, even up hill. The faster the riders, the more
difference the aerodynamics will make.

So for the less aerodynamic bike rider to win, there
needs to be some ergonomic or mechanical advantage
to the available riding positions or techniques. Such an
advantage is often asserted for upright bike riding position
and particularly for climbing. Some possibile advantages
offered include:

- ability to recruit more or different muscles increases
power output
- using shifts in body weight offers some mechanical
advantage
- standing allows resting of some muscles

As far as I know, none of these assertions have
tested or advanteges quantified in a controlled study.

Logic seems to indicate that if any of these or other
better upright climbing methods are true, they must
come at some expense (higher drag, limited endurance,
etc) or the techniques would be used in a sustained
fashion.

Quoted message said:

Cycling's definitely going to evolve. In what ways... I don't know.

But, I definitely don't see it going towards recumbents.

Do you meain bicycle racing or cycling in general?

If you mean cycling in general, how about the crank-forward
designs,-- that's going "toward" recumbent, isn't it? %^)

Quoted message said:

And, I don't think we'll ever see a day when
recumbents are allowed on the Tour.

No, too much history there.

In any case, like with sailing races, there's an element of
one-design-class contest for many bicycle races.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-design

TdF is not supposed to be about the bike, don't you know?
It's about the *pharmaceuticals*! %^)

Quoted message said:

That said, I wonder if there are races involving only
recumbents. Has anybody seen one?

There are a number of open-class races and records
where recumbent designs, both faired and unfaired
dominate, see IHPVA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Human_Powered_Vehicle_Association
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Whittingham

There are various cycling records which show comparitive
performance across bicycle categories.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hour_record

It's pretty clear from a "pure speed" perspective that
aerodynamics are the limiting factor. Note the distinction
within records for upright bikes with "unorthodox positions".
Note the curve of the one-hour records plotted for
UCI vs. IHPVA.

In personal anecdotal "real-world" comparisons, I, a
non-racer, overweitght recumbent rider have been able
to keep up with younger, fitter upright riders on multi-day
self supported tours around Taos, NM, and in hilly
southern Oklahoma,-- climbing faster in some cases.

Jon

"stratrider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If recumbents were allowed in the Tour as well as any other
professional race event, do you think any riders would switch or at
least experiment with recumbents? My guess is they might switch for a
fairly flat time trial but that's it. I have watched and marveled at
the pros as they dance on the pedals while climbing switchbacks so
steep I'd be looking for a ladder! Under these conditions, I argue
the recumbent cannot compete. Any thoughts?

Jim

Some sugar daddy would have to pony up a couple hundred million to build
teams to do any major kind of race, and to have enough teams to make it a
race. The pros will ride what they're paid to ride as long as their union
and league rules allow them to. I think it probable that rider contracts may
stipulate branding requirements for equipment. There's a photo bouncing
around the net of Jan Ullrich riding a Baron or Jester. His pro days are
probably over, but I haven't seen his name mentioned as participating in
Euro championships, or him having been hired to be the motor for a world
record run in a Battle Mountain speedbike.

So basically the whole argument is moot. The TdF is about artificially
preserving the classic equipment used in the race and reaping gazillions of
Euros in sponsor and ad revenues.

I talked to some state champion track racers at the Northbrook track who
were watching a couple of NoComs doing hot laps on the track. They were
interested in them, but they weren't going to make a career change to beat
up on the few geezers who race the HPRA circuit. These are atheletes who
compete at a pretty high level and at that level and discipline the
competition is is riding fixy track bikes.

gotbent, aka frvt rider

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