Idiot pedestrians

While I've loved bikes all my life, to me, there are an awful lot of idiot
cyclists too. I live downtown, and I see cyclists speeding through
intersections without even slowing to make sure it's safe, red lights, wrong
way streets, etc. multiple times every single day. Many are on fast fixed
gear bikes without brakes, which seems to be a fad around here at least. In
the context of city streets, often with heavy traffic, they seemingly appear
out of nowhere, and they do things that are unexpected if you're a
pedestrian. Even as a cyclist doubling as a frequent pedestrian, I've had a
number of close calls at intersections/crosswalks already just since the
Spring, and I know two people who have been hit by bicycles and suffered
broken bones. Especially among young men in their 20's, it seems to be a
macho thing to completely disregard not just traffic rules, but any common
sense at all when it comes to riding in the city.

"Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It baffles me that people can walk around, outside,
near traffic, be totally oblivious to their surroundings,
and still be alive.

Friday I was biking to the ER (son ran into door). My
path took me through an intersection where the street
you're on, if you go straight, turns into a bike path.
So cars have to turn either left or right, but bikes
can go straight. As I was approaching the intersection
on my bike, prepared to go straight, I noticed a woman
on a cell phone, and I saw that our paths would intersect
if I kept going straight. So I slightly adjusted my
trajectory so that I would pass in front of her by
a meter or so. This all happened in about 2 seconds,
and my light was green.

As you leave this particular intersection, there is a
fairly large bump. My ancient old u-lock typically
just hangs on my handlebars, knocking against the bike
frame (which explains all the paint dings). It makes
a God-awful noise when you go over a bump, so Madame
Oblivious Cellphoner heard a huge racket right in
front of her, then I whizzed by right in front of her
(she probably couldn't see me rolling my eyes) as I
heard her breath catch.

In retrospect, I probably should have gone behind her,
as she could have fallen forward at any time, or
accelerated her pace. Maybe next time. And I know
I should have been more friendly to her, she's
probably cursing all bikers now. But boy was that
satisfying, for some odd reason.

Scott

Pete said:

Many are on fast fixed
gear bikes without brakes, which seems to be a fad around here at least.

NO brakes at all? What kind of bikes are these?

Dan

In article <[email hidden]>,

Scott said:

In retrospect, I probably should have gone behind her,
as she could have fallen forward at any time, or
accelerated her pace. Maybe next time.

If she was on the sidewalk or crosswalk, she probably
(depending on your local by-laws) had her ROW, and a
reasonable expectation for it to be respected.

I frequently see drivers barging out of alleys, gas
stations and parking lots, without yielding to "idiot"
pedestrians on the sidewalk, too.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 13:08:22 -0700, [email hidden] (Tom Keats)

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Scott said:

In retrospect, I probably should have gone behind her,
as she could have fallen forward at any time, or
accelerated her pace. Maybe next time.

If she was on the sidewalk or crosswalk, she probably
(depending on your local by-laws) had her ROW, and a
reasonable expectation for it to be respected.

I have to agree. I think the cyclist should have yielded to the ped.,
though to be fair it might be a 'you had to be there' sitch.

Rather than learning the hard way, why not listen to your 'calm' self,
which in the OP's commentary was the little voice saying 'wait and go
behind her'? It's not so much that the cyclist was wrong...

Sometimes you have to realize that when we're riding and the juices are
flowing sometimes the less wise choice, but the more exhuberant one is
made.

Though I can't do it consistently, to me, the ultimate in effective cycling
is being able to react instantly and find that open space, or to turn
-with- the obstacle so as to not T-bone a right hookers. Too often we are
mesmerized and determined to hold our line we end up colliding and braking
when it's not necessary.

Might be that the almost single-minded drive to 'keep going' overtakes the
more sensible 'flow through' mode. Might be helpful to employ some
self-talk, of the 'stay loose', flow through untouched and silent. Still
easier said than done. ;-)

jj

Quoted message said:

I frequently see drivers barging out of alleys, gas
stations and parking lots, without yielding to "idiot"
pedestrians on the sidewalk, too.

cheers,
Tom

Scott said:

In retrospect, I probably should have gone behind her,
as she could have fallen forward at any time, or
accelerated her pace. Maybe next time. And I know
I should have been more friendly to her, she's
probably cursing all bikers now. But boy was that
satisfying, for some odd reason.

Quite possibly, by law, you should have gone behind her. Without knowing
your state/municipal laws, it's not altogether clear whether you or she was
the idiot.

Austin (never been an idiot myself ;> )

"Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

While I've loved bikes all my life, to me, there are an awful lot of idiot
cyclists too.

I think it's the time of the season for every one to ask in unison:
'Doesn't it seem like there are more sidewalk riders than in past years?'

--
'Things forbidden have a secret charm.'
-tacitus

"Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It baffles me that people can walk around, outside,
near traffic, be totally oblivious to their surroundings,
and still be alive.

Friday I was biking to the ER (son ran into door). My
path took me through an intersection where the street
you're on, if you go straight, turns into a bike path.
So cars have to turn either left or right, but bikes
can go straight. As I was approaching the intersection
on my bike, prepared to go straight, I noticed a woman
on a cell phone, and I saw that our paths would intersect
if I kept going straight. So I slightly adjusted my
trajectory so that I would pass in front of her by
a meter or so. This all happened in about 2 seconds,
and my light was green.

As a cyclist I would think you get so much of a "get out of my way attitude"
from motor vehicle drivers that you would spare pedestrians that.

Dan said:

Pete said:

Many are on fast fixed
gear bikes without brakes, which seems to be a fad around here at least.

NO brakes at all? What kind of bikes are these?

Fixed gear bikes (as the OP mentioned). i.e. They can be stopped by
putting back-pressure on the pedals, unlike a bike equipped with a
freewheel. Most *sane* riders at least equip a front brake in addition
to this however.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/fixed.html

--
Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g
Bombeck's Rule of Medicine:
Never go to a doctor whose office plants have died.

Dane Jackson said:

Dan said:

Pete said:

Many are on fast fixed
gear bikes without brakes, which seems to be a fad around here at least.

NO brakes at all? What kind of bikes are these?

Fixed gear bikes (as the OP mentioned). i.e. They can be stopped by
putting back-pressure on the pedals, unlike a bike equipped with a
freewheel. Most *sane* riders at least equip a front brake in addition
to this however.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/fixed.html

OH, coaster brakes. Well, that's not technically NO brakes ;-) Yeah I
had bikes like that as a kid, can't really remember how effective they
were (though I do recall I never ran into anything myself, & we all
loved the "skidmark" contests the brakes afforded... )

Dan

"Dan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

OH, coaster brakes. Well, that's not technically NO brakes ;-) Yeah I had
bikes like that as a kid, can't really remember how effective they were
(though I do recall I never ran into anything myself, & we all loved the
"skidmark" contests the brakes afforded... )

I seem to remember them as rather effective - unless you threw the chain.
Then you were up the creek, out of luck, in it deep.

--
'The only way Ricky is going to get any smarter
is if he dies and comes back as a turnip.'
-from the trailer park boys

"Scott" wrote: (clip) This all happened in about 2 seconds, and my light
was green.(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
All the posters who think she might have had the right of way must be wrong.
She was crossing against the light. And not looking. If you taught her a
lesson, you did her a favor. I'm not saying that you ought to do this sort
of thing deliberately, but it sounds like you were as surprised by her
sudden gasp as she was by your sudden appearance.

"Dan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

OH, coaster brakes. Well, that's not technically NO brakes ;-) Yeah I had
bikes like that as a kid, can't really remember how effective they were
(though I do recall I never ran into anything myself, & we all loved the
"skidmark" contests the brakes afforded... )

No, not coaster brakes. The cranks are bolted to the chainring. The cog is
bolted to the back wheel. The chain connects them. You pedal, you move. When
moving fast, if you want to stop you have to slow the pedaling until it
stops, hopefully without skidding out of control.

In downtown Philadelphia, fixie riders rarely stop voluntarily.

RichC

Rich Clark said:

"Dan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

No, not coaster brakes. The cranks are bolted to the chainring. The cog is
bolted to the back wheel. The chain connects them. You pedal, you move. When
moving fast, if you want to stop you have to slow the pedaling until it
stops, hopefully without skidding out of control.

In downtown Philadelphia, fixie riders rarely stop voluntarily.

RichC

You're kidding? Sounds ridiculous, like an old "bone shaker" or a kid's
trike. What's the appeal?

Dan

Scott said:

As I was approaching the intersection
on my bike, prepared to go straight, I noticed a woman
on a cell phone, and I saw that our paths would intersect
if I kept going straight. So I slightly adjusted my
trajectory so that I would pass in front of her by
a meter or so. This all happened in about 2 seconds,
and my light was green.

Something I've noticed a lot of lately is pedestrians who cross against
the light and who very deliberately and obviously refuse to make eye
contact. I get the strong impression that they feel that if they don't
look at you, avoiding a collision becomes your problem alone and, somehow,
they win the encounter. This isn't obliviousness. It's more like a dare.

--
Paul Turner

In article <[email hidden]>,

Leo Lichtman said:

"Scott" wrote: (clip) This all happened in about 2 seconds, and my light
was green.(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
All the posters who think she might have had the right of way must be wrong.
She was crossing against the light. And not looking.

From the original post I was under the impression this
was at, from a driver's perspective, a T intersection,
with a bike path on the other side, and probably a
curb cut in the sidewalk to accommodate bikes as they
cross it, continuing on to the adjoining bike path.

When the original poster described: "As you *leave*
[my emphasis] this particular intersection, there is
a fairly large bump", I pictured the pedestrian on
the upper bar of the T, on the sidewalk side of the
street. And I thought the "bump" might be the
curb cut/ramp onto the sidewalk.

(To fellow Vancouver locals, I was specifically reminded
of Ontario St & 11th Avenue, which is similarly configured,
although there's no traffic light there.)

But I might be wrong.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

"Dan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Rich Clark said:

"Dan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

No, not coaster brakes. The cranks are bolted to the chainring. The cog

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bolted to the back wheel. The chain connects them. You pedal, you move.

When

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

moving fast, if you want to stop you have to slow the pedaling until it
stops, hopefully without skidding out of control.

In downtown Philadelphia, fixie riders rarely stop voluntarily.

RichC

You're kidding? Sounds ridiculous, like an old "bone shaker" or a kid's
trike. What's the appeal?

Exactly, bone shakers and kids trikes are examples of fixed gear bikes. On
an experiential level the appeal is the feeling of connectedness. On the
mechanical level there is an attractivness and beauty to the simplicity of
the machine. A lot of people are putting together their own bikes part by
part from yard sale and flea market type sources. I like fixed gear bikes
and riding for all the same reasons I like bikes and cycling in general.
The elemental simplicity, the oneness are magnified. Fixed gear riding has
become a fad, so lot's of people are doing it these days. There are many
doing it for fad value because it's "cool", and there's nothing wrong with
that, because it is cool.

I wouldn't do it without a front brake, but many find it comfortable to do
so. There are many people who are highly critical of not using a front
brake. I say to each their own. There is a back brake, it just takes a lot
of skill to use and it's not as effective as a traditional front brake.
Roller skates and skateboards don't have as much braking but there are
people that manage to master those.

In another post someone gave a link to one of Sheldon Brown's articles,
that's a good start. Here's one that shows a huge gallery of peoples bikes:
http://www.fixedgeargallery.com

"Paul Turner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Scott said:

As I was approaching the intersection
on my bike, prepared to go straight, I noticed a woman
on a cell phone, and I saw that our paths would intersect
if I kept going straight. So I slightly adjusted my
trajectory so that I would pass in front of her by
a meter or so. This all happened in about 2 seconds,
and my light was green.

Something I've noticed a lot of lately is pedestrians who cross against
the light and who very deliberately and obviously refuse to make eye
contact. I get the strong impression that they feel that if they don't
look at you, avoiding a collision becomes your problem alone and, somehow,
they win the encounter. This isn't obliviousness. It's more like a dare.

--
Paul Turner

I find this behavior in all kinds of places from motor vehicle drivers to
people in lines at the grocery store. It's definately rude, but you you
don't have to respond back with rudeness, even if you have the right of way.

J.V. said:

brake. I say to each their own. There is a back brake, it just takes a lot
of skill to use and it's not as effective as a traditional front brake.

When you say "there is a back brake" you mean if you impede the rotation
of the peddles with your legs, the bike slows, and if you impede it
enough, the rear wheel stops rotating entirely & simply skids, correct?
There really is no brake MECHANISM in the traditional sense?

I bet there's a lot of lower leg bruising involved in getting used to
one of these.

Dan

Leo Lichtman said:

"Scott" wrote: (clip) This all happened in about 2 seconds, and my light
was green.(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
All the posters who think she might have had the right of way must be wrong.
She was crossing against the light. And not looking. If you taught her a
lesson, you did her a favor. I'm not saying that you ought to do this sort
of thing deliberately, but it sounds like you were as surprised by her
sudden gasp as she was by your sudden appearance.

Crossing what? She had a continuous sidewalk, I'd bet. If she had to
step down onto a bike path, that would be one thing, but if the path
begins after the sidewalk, as they usually do, then I'd say it's more like
a driveway, where the vehicles must yield, whether or not the pedestrian
is an oblivious idiot.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems.
_`\(,_ | -- Paul Erdos
(_)/ (_) |