Idebenone and Iron toxicity

Here is another study showing the beneficial effects of
Idebenone (and Vitamin E / Glutathione) on free radical
injury caused by Iron and this time with Ascorbate. Anyone
of the big scientific gurus here wish to comment on whether
Idebenone has potential as a drug to limit the bad effects
of too much Heme Iron? If not Idebenone then what else
would help?

Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 1998 May 29;246(3):703-10.
Related Articles, Links

The protective effect of vitamin E, idebenone and reduced
glutathione on free radical mediated injury in rat brain
synaptosomes.

Cardoso SM, Pereira C, Oliveira CR.

Center for Neuroscience of Coimbra, University of
Coimbra, Portugal.

In the present study the effect of ascorbate (0.8 mM)/iron
(2.5 microM) on lipid and protein oxidation, in Synaptosomes
isolated from rat brain cortex, was evaluated. Vitamin E,
idebenone and reduced glutathione were used as free radicals
scavengers, in order to analyze the mechanism involved in
ascorbate/iron-induced oxidative stress. An increased
formation of reactive oxygen species (ROS) in the cytosol
and in the mitochondria was observed, in ascorbate/iron
treated synaptosomes. Idebenone (50 microM) prevented the
increased formation of ROS in both synaptosomal
compartments, vitamin E (150 microM) protected partially
this formation in mitochondria, whereas reduced glutathione
(250 microM) (GSH) was ineffective. After ascorbate/iron
treatment an increase in lipid peroxidation occurred as
compared to control, which was completely inhibited by
idebenone. A decrease in protein-SH content was also
observed, and it was prevented by Vitamin E, idebenone and
GSH. When synaptosomes were treated with ascorbate/iron the
levels of GSH decreased, and the levels of oxidized
glutathione (GSSG) increased as compared to controls under
these conditions. Glutathione peroxidase activity was
unchanged, whereas an inhibition of glutathione reductase
activity was observed. These data suggest that the increased
formation of free radicals in synaptosomes leads to lipid
and protein oxidation, the role of the endogenous GSH being
essential to protect protein thiol-groups against oxidative
damage in order to maintain enzyme activity.

PMID: 9618276 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Only 2 percent of the population have iron overload
problems, with a similar percent iron anemic, 5 percent in
women. Your doctor should consider how much iron and what
type to increase, continuing testing will show when normal
levels are reached. Supplementation might not be required
if the source of your anemia is found, often a loss of
blood in the di tract, and iron then can be normalised by
your usual diet. In addition to those things which tend to
increase or decrease iron absorption, the body has a built
in control at the gut level which increases it when levels
are low and decreases it when high. Meats, shellfish and
organ meats are especially a good source, should bring it
up. Discuss your concerns with your doc, the kind of
problems you mention are not common and not likely to
result from treatment for iron anemia.

Quoted message said:

I am having bloodtests done to see if I have iron-
deficiency anemia. If I do have to supplement Iron is there
anything I can take to reduce the potential toxic effects
from Iron supplementation. High Iron levels have been
implicated in heart disease of course.

I know about getting my Non-Heme Iron (appears safer) from
vegetables rather than getting Heme Iron from meat. Also I
know that Vitamin C aids Iron absorption whereas Vitamin E,
Zinc, Calcium, Oxalates, etc. inhibit its absorption.

But is there any supplements I can take to lessen Iron
toxicity? Would Idebenone do this effectively. The
following study seems to suggest this although I do not
understand whether this would apply to people without
Friedreich's ataxia and also whether it would apply to iron
supplementation?

Effect of idebenone on cardiomyopathy in Friedreich's
ataxia: a preliminary study.

Rustin P, von Kleist-Retzow JC, Chantrel-Groussard K, Sidi
D, Munnich A, Rotig A.

Unite de Recherches sur les Handicaps Genetiques de
l'Enfant (INSERM
U393), Paris, France.

BACKGROUND: Friedreich's ataxia is caused by a deficiency
of frataxin, a protein involved in regulation of
mitochondrial iron content. We have reported a combined
deficiency of a Krebs-cycle enzyme, aconitase, and three
mitochondrial respiratory-chain complexes in endomyocardial
biopsy samples from patients with this disorder. All four
enzymes share iron-sulphur cluster-containing proteins that
are damaged by iron overload through generation of oxygen
free radicals. We used an in-vitro system to elucidate the
mechanism of iron-induced injury and to test the protective
effects of various substances. On the basis of these
results, we assessed the effect of idebenone (a free-
radical scavenger) in three patients with Friedreich's
ataxia. METHODS: Heart homogenates from patients with
valvular stenosis were tested for respiratory-chain complex
II activity, lipoperoxidation, and aconitase activity by
spectrophotometric assays, in the presence of reduced iron
(Fe2+), oxidised iron (Fe3+), desferrioxamine, ascorbic
acid, and idebenone. The Friedreich's ataxia patients (aged
11 years, 19 years, and 21 years) underwent
ultrasonographic heart measurements at baseline and after
4-9 months of idebenone (5 mg/kg daily). FINDINGS: Fe2+
(but not Fe3+) decreased complex II activity and increased
lipoperoxidation in heart homogenate. Addition of ascorbate
or desferrioxamine increased some of the iron-induced
adverse effects. Idebenone protected against these effects.
In the three patients, left-ventricular mass index
decreased from baseline to 4-9 months of idebenone
treatment (patient 1, 145 g to 114 g; patient 2, 215 g to
151 g; patient 3, 408 g to 279 g). INTERPRETATION: Our in-
vitro data suggest that both iron chelators and antioxidant
drugs that may reduce iron are potentially harmful in
patients with Friedreich's ataxia. Conversely, our
preliminary findings in patients suggest that idebenone
protects heart muscle from iron-induced injury.

PMID: 10465173 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

also from James South: smart-drugs.netJamesSouthOpen ↗
idebenone.htm

"Idebenone Energy enhancement Iron is a "dual edged sword."
It is absolutely essential for life, it plays a central
role in ATP generation in the electron transport chain. Yet
iron can also be a powerful initiator of free radical
production and cell structural damage, especially under low
oxygen conditions. This occurs, for example, during stroke,
and during the gradual onset of Parkinson's disease.
Studies have shown that Idebenone can tightly couple
oxidation to energy production. This prevents iron ions
from wastefully and toxically, diverting oxygen to
producing free radicals inside the mitochondria, instead of
energy. Studies have shown that Idebenone can almost
completely eliminate this, diverting 10% of cellular oxygen
away from toxic iron induced free radical generation, to
beneficial ATP energy production under hypoxic conditions.
Mild cellular hypoxia can occur even from intense exercise,
or even from mild exercise done by out of shape "couch
potatoes.""

There seems to be a conflict of view concerning idebenone floating
around on this newsgroup. To quote a previous poster in this thread:

Quoted message said:

Idebenone (50 microM) prevented the increased formation of
ROS in both synaptosomal compartments,

and to quote a poster from another thread:

Quoted message said:

Note the statement: "Short chain coenzyme Q (CoQ)
analogues enhance ROS formation". Idebenone is a "short
chain coenzyme Q (CoQ) analogue" which is why I
discontinued using it and have advised against it since a
previous study found this same thing to be true. I use
only CoQ10. --Paul Wakfer

so which is it. pubmed doesn't return many results for
"idebenone".

karnisov said:

There seems to be a conflict of view concerning idebenone
floating around on this newsgroup. To quote a previous
poster in this thread:

Quoted message said:

Idebenone (50 microM) prevented the increased formation of
ROS in both synaptosomal compartments,

and to quote a poster from another thread:

Quoted message said:

Note the statement: "Short chain coenzyme Q (CoQ)
analogues enhance ROS formation". Idebenone is a "short
chain coenzyme Q (CoQ) analogue" which is why I
discontinued using it and have advised against it since a
previous study found this same thing to be true. I use
only CoQ10. --Paul Wakfer

so which is it. pubmed doesn't return many results for
"idebenone".

The answer is that there is insufficient evidence to give a
definitive answer. There are lots of other things to use in
place of idebenone and until there is more positive evidence
of lifespan increasing benefit, I think it is better to
place "safe". If I had one of the few diseases/syndromes for
which is has shown particular benefit then I would use it.

My approach to this supplement is similar to my approach to
glucosamine in that respect. (Glucosamine may increase
insulin resistance, but if had severe arthritis, I would
certainly be using it.)

--Paul Wakfer

MoreLife for the rational - morelife.orgmorelife.orgOpen ↗ Reality
based tools for more life in quantity and quality The Self-
Sovereign Individual Project - selfsip.orgselfsip.orgOpen ↗ Rational
freedom by self-sovereignty & social contracting

[email hidden] (karnisov) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

There seems to be a conflict of view concerning idebenone
floating around on this newsgroup. To quote a previous
poster in this thread:

Quoted message said:

Idebenone (50 microM) prevented the increased formation
of ROS in both synaptosomal compartments,

and to quote a poster from another thread:

Quoted message said:

Note the statement: "Short chain coenzyme Q (CoQ)
analogues enhance ROS formation". Idebenone is a "short
chain coenzyme Q (CoQ) analogue" which is why I
discontinued using it and have advised against it since
a previous study found this same thing to be true. I use
only CoQ10. --Paul Wakfer

so which is it. pubmed doesn't return many results for
"idebenone".

To be fair, regarding the mitochondria targeted form of
idebenone:

"MitoQ counteracts telomere shortening and elongates
lifespan of fibroblasts under mild oxidative stress.
Saretzki G, Murphy MP, von Zglinicki T. Institute of Aging
and Health, Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne NE4
6BE, UK. PMID: 12882327 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]"

Given the mechanism by which idebenone is believed to
increase superoxide production, one would think that the
mitochondria targeted derivative would be 'particularly'
effective at increasing superoxide production -- thereby
increasing oxidative stress -- and yet what little evidence
there is suggests the opposite.

Also, although idebenone is believed to increase production
of superoxide, it is also a scavenger of it, and there are
studies showing that it is effective in lowering oxidative
stress in general. Moreover, vigorous exercise also causes a
substantial increase in superoxide production, and other
popular supplements (e.g. ALCAR) may potentially increase
production of ROS. For example, where ALCAR or R-ALA by
itself may potentially increase oxidative stress in younger
animals according to limited studies, there is some evidence
that the combination of the two may lower it. And while
exercise by itself may modestly increase lifespan in
animals, it's possible that the anti-aging effect of
exercise may be substantially increased by supplementing
with various antioxidants, given that exercise increases
production of ROS.

Regardless of whether or not the net effect of idebenone for
healthy individuals is positive or negative, the evidence
that it increases production of superoxide should at the
least reinforce the importance of trying to maintain redox
balance for those who take supplements. Many antioxidants
have been shown to have the ability to become pro-oxidants
under certain conditions, not the least of which is CoQ10.
Whereas a certain particular antioxidant may potentially
increase oxidative stress in animals if taken alone, I
believe a complex network of antioxidants will be more
likely to lower oxidative stress, even in young and healthy
animals. The problem is, there is very little published
research documenting the effects of concomitant
administration of multiple 'powerful' antioxidants in vivo.
I've always believed that lifespan studies showing
disappointing results for individual antioxidants lack
significance or may even be misleading for this reason.

A particular antioxidant solely administered:

** may increase oxidative stress through pro-oxidant
mechanisms or by increasing root production of ROS.

** may be too weak at safe dosages to significantly lower
oxidative stress enough to realize a substantial positive
effect on the rate of aging

** may not be broad-spectrum enough to be effective on its
own to slow aging and/or may only be effective against ROS
which are not strongly associated with the aging process

** may not have sufficient bioavailability or absorption

** may not be both fat and water soluble, and thus have
limited effectiveness for different tissues and different
parts of the cell

** may or may not easily cross the BBB

** etc.

Ryan

[email hidden] (rs) wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

What about Idebenone as a nootropic? I hear that it has
potential long term nootropic effects can someone
clarify/elaborate on this?

Anonymite <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (rs) wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

What about Idebenone as a nootropic? I hear that it has
potential long term nootropic effects can someone
clarify/elaborate on this?

Summary of putative nootropic effect here:

smart-drugs.netJamesSouth idebenone.htmOpen ↗

Interesting, albeit unrelated news on idebenone concerns
it's apparent beneficial effects on skin:

"Idebenone is an antioxidant. Antioxidants protect cells
from environmental damage, improve the appearance of fine
lines, reduce dryness, and smooth skin texture. Studies show
that Idebenone is more powerful in preventing cell damage
than 5 other popular antioxidants- Vitamin C, Vitamin E,
Coenzyme Q10, Kinetin, and alpha lipoic acid.

************************

It will be a key ingredient in a product called Prevage,
from Allergan, the company that markets Botox. "

dermatologytimes.comarOpen ↗
ticleDetail.jsp?id=82191

or

snipurl.com6m1rOpen ↗

(Visionary) said:

Hi Folks

I am having bloodtests done to see if I have iron-
deficiency anemia. If I do have to supplement Iron is there
anything I can take to reduce the potential toxic effects
from Iron supplementation. High Iron levels have been
implicated in heart disease of course.

I know about getting my Non-Heme Iron (appears safer) from
vegetables rather than getting Heme Iron from meat. Also I
know that Vitamin C aids Iron absorption whereas Vitamin E,
Zinc, Calcium, Oxalates, etc. inhibit its absorption.

But is there any supplements I can take to lessen Iron
toxicity? Would Idebenone do this effectively. The
following study seems to suggest this although I do not
understand whether this would apply to people without
Friedreich's ataxia and also whether it would apply to iron
supplementation?

I will recommend one. Called IP6/phytate/phytic
acid/inositol Hexaphosphate, etc.

Found in grains and other seed crops like legumes. It's
really interesting stuff.

First- for the purposes of your inquiry, it's a natural
chelator. It will grab on to stray iron atoms in tissues and
protect the body from them. Naturally you will not want to
take your iron (or other mineral) supplements at the same
time as the IP6.

Second- Your body will yank phosphate groups off the
inositol backbone which makes a significant number of
combinations and permutations of possible compounds- rather
like key combinations. Your body uses these as various
second messengers, signalling various processes within
specific cell lines (such as immune cells). There is a lot
published on its anticancer effects in animals.

Third- those same permutations of IPx compounds are
neurotransmitters in the brain- many associated with the
NMDA system, the Hippocampus and the cerebellum.

Anyway, as far as Iron and anemias are concerned, I was
taking a lot of it for a while during a cancer scare.
(fortunately, the scare was quenched when the work-up was
negative). The IP6 did affect my blood count. First, my
bematocrit went down slightly, but still within normal
limits. Second, the size of my erythrocytes got a little
smaller (but again, still within normal limits). If too
small, it may suggest low iron. Interestingly, the size also
got more monotonous that ususal. They were all the same size
(after 120 days of use- the lifespan of the typical red
blood cell).

It seems to me, this might not be ideal for everyone, but I
was very happy, given that iron is such an irritant to the
body. My take was that all the excess Iron was locked up by
the body as it should be.

Say, I have kelos of food-grade 50% phytic acid soln (about
1.1 molar, I think) I got from China. It's significantly
cheaper than the name brand, but takes a minor chemical
modification to get the pH up from about 0.3 to something
consumable. (It buffers across most of the pH spectrum,
having 12 differrent pKa's) I used sodium bicarb to produce
something tasting of slightly sour seawater. If people want
to purchase some, let me know. Take the "999" out from the
following address: [email hidden] and contact me.

-InfoHazard Not FDA approved. Your Milage May Vary. Do you
know hat something with a pH of 0.3 will do to you?!?

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGP 8.0.3 -
not licensed for commercial use: www.pgp.com

mQGiBECwWt4RBAD0hgdZmo4OxqPGfWRyuuJZwGQJdiNjncqor9BJjfsKv1v-
MKoBx NavNLmLGwliI9bqsTfUOmvkQe+WtYRmAo9mS+RJl3GhGY3knpZEnw-
GuEQ1aJGK9Q 0om2PCq6f4jfiLZlpn9zebVWvGxs+M048Wtj5asb0LrwbRI-
KZR13hS/21wCg//Lh LyVOPsgjg9B15AZxaFUgQBsD/1ig8GunzvqA1ub2R-
i9wNWbFz8Joi2LUqeHiCeHz d1aV+NNTM6CZ7dQSa4mCowHDM3oNusF4lJR-
EYqu2ms9PvyB9+oLyho5zsS76satF P+fJ/FrX1ob5SuBrqEM3IU08wCK7B-
A+NN8IrLGT3pjbXlmlIW+FdNUoaHbfX5TmL yaPNBADG1Qdw+lnRzoZmWS2-
4o3Iq0eRohuoVWkdKj4pKxEk9T2U5MjmBls2Re4SS segzCJAttAPgbgHS6-
Gno//LpIXtJmVL17HMdOoHJpp3bH6fGW72VswWMVkjBNKUd PX4Wowsk/zc-
OYBAbyqQdExDp1Y67TiYBVj7ZEm2/8pU6nZp+27QhSW5mb0hhemFy ZCA8a-
W5mb2hhemFyZEBnbWFpbC5jb20+iQBXBBARAgAXBQJAsFreBwsJCAcDAgoC
GQEFGwMAAAAACgkQcyhw+GFP8gxAKACfZvy9h5GxNu3eaGjGly0O36goIis-
An1vJ TlVVmb17G8bF+I5oPJrkoj18uQINBECwWt8QCAD2Qle3CH8IF3Kiu-
tapQvMF6PlT ETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfg-
Mg71l6RfUodNQ+PVZ X9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhz-
nzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarTW56N oKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JE-
HNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY7288kj wEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDo-
x0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy1obE AxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJs-
CRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XpMgs7AAIC
B/4p1o8iQvhuGTtoGKytGDmm7rbrEIjU3RegxJ+vRsZIGegj2C92sp+hsSH-
EVwg/ azmtUI+km9xpqNYy8PeZZlnEezhS23fZ/v5SR9D9c8sgOO3DDwG-
K1r02njKjC9c2 vGL+TcKEAxRX9skfpPuT5Fv5kSvgHmhyx9HUVcBmXHR-
m9xyRrr9spB2Tq8YN84d+ xRtlkaCnmowDxchcsQthb8EjS/4fVQD/ykj-
RvyQUW0xkXG72QH+M1ISFx4896/+x 6vZeZd0i7LPUhYqJi2PytTARQv1-
x2r38BNhabDPl3qmxlUjITROkeXVqaYRbpZh9 fPTHd37k8W875MiPWc8-
uojY3iQBMBBgRAgAMBQJAsFrfBRsMAAAAAAoJEHMocPhh
C/IMJ14AnA+Vhe+SrJ28qZ7qojZxMMmDFfzEAKDUYIj/JDOxbolEYijyB50-
WtsMZ zw== =FbKE -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

InfoHazard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On 18 May 2004 19:19:13 -0700, [email hidden]

(Visionary) said:

Hi Folks

I am having bloodtests done to see if I have iron-
deficiency anemia.

I will recommend one. Called IP6/phytate/phytic
acid/inositol Hexaphosphate, etc.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, as far as Iron and anemias are concerned, I was
taking a

lot of it for a while during a cancer scare. (fortunately,
the scare was quenched when the work-up was negative). The
IP6 did affect my blood count. First, my bematocrit went
down slightly, but still within normal limits. Second, the
size of my erythrocytes got a little smaller (but again,
still within normal limits). If too small, it may suggest
low iron. Interestingly, the size also got more monotonous
that ususal. They were all the same size (after 120 days
of use- the lifespan of the typical red blood cell).

Did you ever check your ferritin level?

Quoted message said:

It seems to me, this might not be ideal for everyone, but
I was very happy, given that iron is such an irritant to
the body. My take was that all the excess Iron was locked
up by the body as it should be.

Say, I have kelos of food-grade 50% phytic acid soln
(about 1.1 molar, I think) I got from China.

You are rather brave (to choose one descriptor), IMO, to
ingest a chemical produced in China!

It's significantly cheaper than the

Quoted message said:

name brand, but takes a minor chemical modification to get
the pH up from about 0.3 to something consumable. (It
buffers across most of the pH spectrum, having 12
differrent pKa's) I used sodium bicarb to produce
something tasting of slightly sour seawater. If people
want to purchase some, let me know. Take the "999" out
from the following address: [email hidden] and
contact me.

-InfoHazard Not FDA approved. Your Milage May Vary. Do you
know hat something with a pH of 0.3 will do to you?!?

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGP 8.0.3 -
not licensed for commercial use: www.pgp.com

mQGiBECwWt4RBAD0hgdZmo4OxqPGfWRyuuJZwGQJdiNjncqor9BJjfsKv-
1vMKoBx NavNLmLGwliI9bqsTfUOmvkQe+WtYRmAo9mS+RJl3GhGY3knp-
ZEnwGuEQ1aJGK9Q 0om2PCq6f4jfiLZlpn9zebVWvGxs+M048Wtj5asb0-
LrwbRIKZR13hS/21wCg//Lh LyVOPsgjg9B15AZxaFUgQBsD/1ig8Gunz-
vqA1ub2Ri9wNWbFz8Joi2LUqeHiCeHz d1aV+NNTM6CZ7dQSa4mCowHDM-
3oNusF4lJREYqu2ms9PvyB9+oLyho5zsS76satF P+fJ/FrX1ob5SuBrq-
EM3IU08wCK7BA+NN8IrLGT3pjbXlmlIW+FdNUoaHbfX5TmL yaPNBADG1-
Qdw+lnRzoZmWS24o3Iq0eRohuoVWkdKj4pKxEk9T2U5MjmBls2Re4SS
segzCJAttAPgbgHS6Gno//LpIXtJmVL17HMdOoHJpp3bH6fGW72VswWMV-
kjBNKUd PX4Wowsk/zcOYBAbyqQdExDp1Y67TiYBVj7ZEm2/8pU6nZp+2-
7QhSW5mb0hhemFy ZCA8aW5mb2hhemFyZEBnbWFpbC5jb20+iQBXBBARA-
gAXBQJAsFreBwsJCAcDAgoC GQEFGwMAAAAACgkQcyhw+GFP8gxAKACfZ-
vy9h5GxNu3eaGjGly0O36goIisAn1vJ TlVVmb17G8bF+I5oPJrkoj18u-
QINBECwWt8QCAD2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF6PlT ETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp-
1ajFOmPQFXz0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ+PVZ X9x2Uk89P-
Y3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRPxfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarTW56N
oKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvNILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbL-
Y7288kj wEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dDox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQ-
BgRjXyEpwpy1obE AxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMIPWakXUGfnHy9i-
UsiGSa6q6Jew1XpMgs7AAIC
B/4p1o8iQvhuGTtoGKytGDmm7rbrEIjU3RegxJ+vRsZIGegj2C92sp+h-
sSHEVwg/ azmtUI+km9xpqNYy8PeZZlnEezhS23fZ/v5SR9D9c8sgO-
O3DDwGK1r02njKjC9c2 vGL+TcKEAxRX9skfpPuT5Fv5kSvgHmhyx9-
HUVcBmXHRm9xyRrr9spB2Tq8YN84d+ xRtlkaCnmowDxchcsQthb8E-
jS/4fVQD/ykjRvyQUW0xkXG72QH+M1ISFx4896/+x 6vZeZd0i7LPU-
hYqJi2PytTARQv1x2r38BNhabDPl3qmxlUjITROkeXVqaYRbpZh9
fPTHd37k8W875MiPWc8uojY3iQBMBBgRAgAMBQJAsFrfBRsMAAAAAA-
oJEHMocPhh
T/IMJ14AnA+Vhe+SrJ28qZ7qojZxMMmDFfzEAKDUYIj/JDOxbolEYijyB-
50WtsMZ zw== =FbKE -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

(tintinet) said:

InfoHazard <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On 18 May 2004 19:19:13 -0700, [email hidden]

(Visionary) said:

Hi Folks

I am having bloodtests done to see if I have iron-
deficiency anemia.

I will recommend one. Called IP6/phytate/phytic
acid/inositol Hexaphosphate, etc.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, as far as Iron and anemias are concerned, I was
taking a

lot of it for a while during a cancer scare.
(fortunately, the scare was quenched when the work-up was
negative). The IP6 did affect my blood count. First, my
bematocrit went down slightly, but still within normal
limits. Second, the size of my erythrocytes got a little
smaller (but again, still within normal limits). If too
small, it may suggest low iron. Interestingly, the size
also got more monotonous that ususal. They were all the
same size (after 120 days of use- the lifespan of the
typical red blood cell).

Did you ever check your ferritin level?

Never Bothered. Labs basically within normal lmits (except
RDW which is an obscure one) and I felt great.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It seems to me, this might not be ideal for everyone, but
I was very happy, given that iron is such an irritant to
the body. My take was that all the excess Iron was locked
up by the body as it should be.

Say, I have kelos of food-grade 50% phytic acid soln
(about 1.1 molar, I think) I got from China.

You are rather brave (to choose one descriptor), IMO, to
ingest a chemical produced in China!

Heh. A large proportion of the products on the supplement
market are manufactured in China and are remixed, packaged
and marketed domestically.

A decade or so ago China was having a little lead (Pb)
problem with some of their herbals, but they tracked it
down to old plumbing and fixed the ptroblem nationwide.

They have become serious contenders on the world market in
almost everything, in case you haven't noticed.

I searched all over pub med, and the internet for recent
medical reports of problems or any complaints, FDA reports,
testing lab reports, lawsuits etc. involving Chinese
manufactured supplements, herbals, pharmaceuticals or
chemicals. Couldn't find anything beyond the Pb issue.

Perhaps someone else here has? I'm always open to learn
something new.

Infohazard