I'm Dyin' to try..

"db." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

hello everyone

I've been researching delta and tadpoles for some time now, and I'll
admit I'm leaning toward the tadpole concept.
I realize that even the manufacturing sites say some technique is
involved, but I don't see the big deal, it's technique, not rare talent.
I'm 6'6" with an "x-seam" of nearly 50", if I did it right(a 36" inseam).
There's no one in my area that sell tadpoles or any kind of `bent rider
for that matter and the more I research the more I'm itchin' to try one.
I'm in the Albany, NY area the nearest retailer is 2½ hours out.
I'm not completely in the dark on cycling I've owned racers and mountain
bikes since I can remember and I'm quickly becoming a fan.

On another note there will be a meet in western NY in August.

http://www.bentrideronline.com/bentride/nyevent.htm

I'm hoping that will quell my curiosity.

Thanks for reading.

I'm hoping to meet some people out there who can teach me a thing or 2.

Hey db,

I'm currently on my second tadpole trike, a 2004 Catrike Speed. I bought it
from Calhoun Cycle in Minneapolis, MN, without a test ride. The re-assembly
was no problem; but I did have a few issues with some details. For
instance, the front wheel spoke tension is very low (need to get that
fixed). Calhoun is a great dealership, which I highly recommend, BTW.

Though it's a beautiful design, I wasn't sure about the Speed at first. I
was pretty slow on it while I was building up "recumbent muscles." Handling
is "thrilling." That is to say, very sensitive, with noticeable pedal steer
and obvious brake steer (exacerbated by very powerful Avid disc brakes).
You don't so much steer the Speed as you think about turning, and it goes
there. Any more effort than that and you'll probably flip the thing. I kid
you not. I had it on two wheels numerous times in the first few days of
riding. For several weeks, I wasn't comfortable at speeds over about 20mph.
BTW: The headrest is a must-have, especially the new suspended version.
I'll be buying one of those soon. The unsuspended one can be pretty jarring.

Now that I've logged some miles on the Speed, I feel more comfortable and
safe than I felt at first. I'm definitely faster now - very fast, in fact.
I find myself spinning out in top gear on occasion, and still feel confident
at that speed (though I am very careful). I still won't ride on streets
with any traffic to speak of. I haul the trike around in my hatchback,
preferring to ride on paved bike paths, in big empty parking lots and in new
housing developments (before the houses are built = no traffic). There are,
of course, intrepid tadpole trike commuters out there; but I won't be
joining their ranks. I value my life more than that.

Though the Speed is even more thrilling than I had imagined (read:
white-knuckle ride), it is a helluva lot of fun. It really is like a
3-wheeled pedal-powered go-kart in many ways. The brakes work *very* well if
you ever get going faster than you'd like. You just have to be careful to
apply them evenly. I'm getting to where I can do emergency stops from high
speeds very well, with minimal back-and-forth twitching (from uneven brake
application/modulation). My first tadpole trike had a single lever to
control both brakes, which worked pretty well. This one, you gotta watch how
you apply the stoppers.

That being said, there's nothing like a tadpole trike if you like to cruise
along gazing up at the trees and the clouds, with no worries about falling
over. I love to find big open stretches of pavement (sans cars), and just
stare at the sky while pedalling at a leisurely pace. It makes stress melt
away. It's wonderful relaxation therapy, and a gentle workout all in one.
Can't beat it. It makes me think that cross-country touring might be a
great experience if I could find a suitably safe route.

See if you can find a trike owner in your area to give you a test ride. I
think you'll be very happy with a tadpole trike.

I can whole-heartedly second everything that ________ said about the
tadpole trike. I just bought a second-hand Catrike Speed myself this
past week but unlike _______ I'm a tadpole trike commuter. It would
be nice to have an extra pair of eyes on the back of my head but I
guess 2 rearview mirrors (+ a 6' safety flag) will have to do.

Have it less than a week and already I find that I'm faster on it
(consistently) than I ever was on my Cannondale wedgie. Best cycling
$1600 I've ever spent.

Quoted message said:

Hey db,

I'm currently on my second tadpole trike, a 2004 Catrike Speed. I bought it
from Calhoun Cycle in Minneapolis, MN, without a test ride. The re-assembly
was no problem; but I did have a few issues with some details. For
instance, the front wheel spoke tension is very low (need to get that
fixed). Calhoun is a great dealership, which I highly recommend, BTW.

Though it's a beautiful design, I wasn't sure about the Speed at first. I
was pretty slow on it while I was building up "recumbent muscles." Handling
is "thrilling." That is to say, very sensitive, with noticeable pedal steer
and obvious brake steer (exacerbated by very powerful Avid disc brakes).
You don't so much steer the Speed as you think about turning, and it goes
there. Any more effort than that and you'll probably flip the thing. I kid
you not. I had it on two wheels numerous times in the first few days of
riding. For several weeks, I wasn't comfortable at speeds over about 20mph.
BTW: The headrest is a must-have, especially the new suspended version.
I'll be buying one of those soon. The unsuspended one can be pretty jarring.

Now that I've logged some miles on the Speed, I feel more comfortable and
safe than I felt at first. I'm definitely faster now - very fast, in fact.
I find myself spinning out in top gear on occasion, and still feel confident
at that speed (though I am very careful). I still won't ride on streets
with any traffic to speak of. I haul the trike around in my hatchback,
preferring to ride on paved bike paths, in big empty parking lots and in new
housing developments (before the houses are built = no traffic). There are,
of course, intrepid tadpole trike commuters out there; but I won't be
joining their ranks. I value my life more than that.

Though the Speed is even more thrilling than I had imagined (read:
white-knuckle ride), it is a helluva lot of fun. It really is like a
3-wheeled pedal-powered go-kart in many ways. The brakes work *very* well if
you ever get going faster than you'd like. You just have to be careful to
apply them evenly. I'm getting to where I can do emergency stops from high
speeds very well, with minimal back-and-forth twitching (from uneven brake
application/modulation). My first tadpole trike had a single lever to
control both brakes, which worked pretty well. This one, you gotta watch how
you apply the stoppers.

That being said, there's nothing like a tadpole trike if you like to cruise
along gazing up at the trees and the clouds, with no worries about falling
over. I love to find big open stretches of pavement (sans cars), and just
stare at the sky while pedalling at a leisurely pace. It makes stress melt
away. It's wonderful relaxation therapy, and a gentle workout all in one.
Can't beat it. It makes me think that cross-country touring might be a
great experience if I could find a suitably safe route.

See if you can find a trike owner in your area to give you a test ride. I
think you'll be very happy with a tadpole trike.

"nj_diver" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I can whole-heartedly second everything that ________ said about the
tadpole trike. I just bought a second-hand Catrike Speed myself this
past week but unlike _______ I'm a tadpole trike commuter. It would
be nice to have an extra pair of eyes on the back of my head but I
guess 2 rearview mirrors (+ a 6' safety flag) will have to do.

Get a helmet type rear view mirror and bolt it to your helmet if necessary.
Those rear view mirrors that attach to the trike frame are worthless.

Quoted message said:

Have it less than a week and already I find that I'm faster on it
(consistently) than I ever was on my Cannondale wedgie. Best cycling
$1600 I've ever spent.

So you say, but I don't believe you. Trikes are NEVER faster than a road
bike (everything else being equal of course).

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota

Edward Dolan said:

So you say, but I don't believe you. Trikes are NEVER faster than a
road bike (everything else being equal of course).

That would explain all the road bikes I overtook between Market Drayton and
Picklescott on Saturday, then.

Of course, they all overtook me again between Picklescott and Bridges...

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
Bandersnatch? I would never have guessed.

Edward Dolan said:

So you say, but I don't believe you. Trikes are NEVER faster than a road
bike (everything else being equal of course).

Except when they are, of course. Andy Wilkinson beat his own Lands End
to John O'Groats record that he'd set on a road bike on a Windcheetah
'bent trike, so that rules out differences in the rider and the course.

But why let mere facts get in the way? You never have before...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

I live in White Plains which is not close to you at all.

I traveled to Maryland to Mt. Airy Bikes in order to test ride trikes. They
have a large inventory and if you go when they are not busy they will set
them up for you and send you out on a mile long test ride.

There is also a shop in southern NJ and one in PA but I haven't spoken with
either one about their test ride policy or stock situation.

If you can plan a trip to the DC area either for business or as a tourist (I
have friends down there and my son had a school trip so I managed to
dovetail it all together) then I think Mt. Airy is your best bet. Their URL
is www.bike123.com

Best of luck.

Jeff
"db." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

hello everyone

I've been researching delta and tadpoles for some time now, and I'll
admit I'm leaning toward the tadpole concept.
I realize that even the manufacturing sites say some technique is
involved, but I don't see the big deal, it's technique, not rare talent.
I'm 6'6" with an "x-seam" of nearly 50", if I did it right(a 36" inseam).
There's no one in my area that sell tadpoles or any kind of `bent rider
for that matter and the more I research the more I'm itchin' to try one.
I'm in the Albany, NY area the nearest retailer is 2½ hours out.
I'm not completely in the dark on cycling I've owned racers and mountain
bikes since I can remember and I'm quickly becoming a fan.

On another note there will be a meet in western NY in August.

http://www.bentrideronline.com/bentride/nyevent.htm

I'm hoping that will quell my curiosity.

Thanks for reading.

I'm hoping to meet some people out there who can teach me a thing or 2.

db.

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Edward Dolan said:

So you say, but I don't believe you. Trikes are NEVER faster than a road
bike (everything else being equal of course).

Except when they are, of course. Andy Wilkinson beat his own Lands End to
John O'Groats record that he'd set on a road bike on a Windcheetah 'bent
trike, so that rules out differences in the rider and the course.

But why let mere facts get in the way? You never have before...

Trikes will ALWAYS be slower than road bikes. This is just common sense
which everyone knows to be true - except for those poor benighted souls who
have spent several thousand getting a trike hoping and praying that they
will be fast. There are none so deluded as those who have spent the big
bucks.

I would not mind having a Windcheetah myself, but I KNOW I would not be
faster on it than I would be on ANY road bike. Just how foolish can you get?

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota

Edward Dolan said:

Peter Clinch said:

Edward Dolan said:

So you say, but I don't believe you. Trikes are NEVER faster than a road
bike (everything else being equal of course).

Except when they are, of course. Andy Wilkinson beat his own Lands End to
John O'Groats record that he'd set on a road bike on a Windcheetah 'bent
trike, so that rules out differences in the rider and the course.

But why let mere facts get in the way? You never have before...

Trikes will ALWAYS be slower than road bikes. This is just common sense
which everyone knows to be true - except for those poor benighted souls
who have spent several thousand getting a trike hoping and praying that
they will be fast. There are none so deluded as those who have spent the
big bucks.

And except for those who understand basic aerodynamics.

-Zenin

In article <[email hidden]>, Zenin <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Edward Dolan said:

Peter Clinch said:

Edward Dolan wrote:
> So you say, but I don't believe you. Trikes are NEVER faster than a road
> bike (everything else being equal of course).

Except when they are, of course. Andy Wilkinson beat his own Lands End to
John O'Groats record that he'd set on a road bike on a Windcheetah 'bent
trike, so that rules out differences in the rider and the course.

But why let mere facts get in the way? You never have before...

Trikes will ALWAYS be slower than road bikes. This is just common sense
which everyone knows to be true - except for those poor benighted souls
who have spent several thousand getting a trike hoping and praying that
they will be fast. There are none so deluded as those who have spent the
big bucks.

And except for those who understand basic aerodynamics.

-Zenin

Nobody of any credibility ever said Mr. Ed was a genius, cut him some
slack.

"Slugger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Zenin <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Edward Dolan said:

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>> So you say, but I don't believe you. Trikes are NEVER faster than a
>> road
>> bike (everything else being equal of course).
>
> Except when they are, of course. Andy Wilkinson beat his own Lands
> End to
> John O'Groats record that he'd set on a road bike on a Windcheetah
> 'bent
> trike, so that rules out differences in the rider and the course.
>
> But why let mere facts get in the way? You never have before...

Trikes will ALWAYS be slower than road bikes. This is just common sense
which everyone knows to be true - except for those poor benighted souls
who have spent several thousand getting a trike hoping and praying that
they will be fast. There are none so deluded as those who have spent
the
big bucks.

And except for those who understand basic aerodynamics.

-Zenin

Nobody of any credibility ever said Mr. Ed was a genius, cut him some
slack.

Aerodynamics is the ONLY advantage that a recumbent has over an upright when
it comes to speed. But what does aerodynamics have to do with going UP a
hill?

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota

"Get a helmet type rear view mirror and bolt it to your helmet if
necessary.
Those rear view mirrors that attach to the trike frame are worthless."

Guess I wasn't specific enough about the mirrors.....2 mirrors = 1 on
the bike and 1 on my helmet.

"Trikes are NEVER faster than a road bike".....You are wrong about that
statement (I'm sure not the first time or the last time, for that
matter).

You're another know-it-all but actually know nothing at all.

"nj_diver" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Edward Dolan said:

"Get a helmet type rear view mirror and bolt it to your helmet if
necessary.
Those rear view mirrors that attach to the trike frame are worthless."

Guess I wasn't specific enough about the mirrors.....2 mirrors = 1 on
the bike and 1 on my helmet.

All you need is one mirror on your helmet. Your head swivels doesn't it?

Quoted message said:

"Trikes are NEVER faster than a road bike"

......You are wrong about that

Quoted message said:

statement (I'm sure not the first time or the last time, for that
matter).

You're another know-it-all but actually know nothing at all.

If you only read me in part it is easy to come to that conclusion. But if
you read me whole, there is no doubt whatsoever that I do in fact know
everything. I take no credit for this. I was born a genius and I just got
smarter and smarter as I got older. I am now one with the immortal gods, but
it is not necessary to worship me as I am not a jealous god like the Jewish
and Christian God.

Ed Dolan the All-Knowing - Minnesota

Slugger said:

Nobody of any credibility ever said Mr. Ed was a genius, cut him some
slack.

He seems to think he's one himself... oh, hang on... see what you mean! ;-)

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Edward Dolan said:

Slugger said:

Zenin said:

And except for those who understand basic aerodynamics.

Nobody of any credibility ever said Mr. Ed was a genius, cut him some
slack.

Aerodynamics is the ONLY advantage that a recumbent has over an upright
when it comes to speed. But what does aerodynamics have to do with going
UP a hill?

Since when does one only ride up hills? What goes up must come down as
they say. That said...

The main advantage wedgies have up hills is weight ('bents are generally
more complex thus higher weight...although the smaller wheels can save
some), but comparing a modern wedgie to a modern SWB 'bent the weight
advantage isn't huge (significant, but not overwhelming...a few pounds
at most). For a trike however, it gets very hard to not add significant
weight as well as rolling and drive train resistance (but again, smaller
wheels can help and with 3 of them you don't need the gyroscopic effect
for stability).

Some will try and clame a leverage/torque advantage for hills, but
against a closed position SWB 'bent like a P-38 that argument really
doesn't hold well.

Add a high BB and 'bents gain an endurance advantage as the rider's legs
don't need to fight gravity as they do on a wedgie. Add to this that
the pull stroke is much easier to get good power from on a high BB
design.

Oh yah...and a high BB 'bent can power around the fastest of turns w/o
any fear of ever dropping a peddle into the road.

Add it all up and "the ONLY advantage that a" wedgie has over a 'bent is
going up very steep hills (with low wind). Moderate hills they are
about even, while down hill and flats the 'bent will just destroy the
wedgie. If you add much of any headwind and the 'bent starts looking
very good even on steep hills.

Oh yah, there's also the advantages of no neck/back ache, still being
able to spawn children some day, and of course a nice tight r-butt. :-D

-Zenin

"nj_diver" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Get a helmet type rear view mirror and bolt it to your helmet if
necessary.
Those rear view mirrors that attach to the trike frame are worthless."

Guess I wasn't specific enough about the mirrors.....2 mirrors = 1 on
the bike and 1 on my helmet.

"Trikes are NEVER faster than a road bike".....You are wrong about that
statement (I'm sure not the first time or the last time, for that
matter).

You're another know-it-all but actually know nothing at all.

Yep. Even the new-and-improved Ed still doesn't understand the purpose of
dialogue. Plonk and move on. Life is too short to worry about know-it-alls
like him.

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Slugger said:

Nobody of any credibility ever said Mr. Ed was a genius, cut him some
slack.

He seems to think he's one himself... oh, hang on... see what you mean!
;-)

Pete.

Although Mr. Sherman of the Quad Cities has seemingly left this group (for
greener pastures let us hope), I see that his fellow jackasses are still
with us braying and making funny donkey noises. Slugger and Peter Clinch of
Dundee, Scotland - what did I ever do to deserve these two stooges.

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota

"___________" <__@____.___> wrote in message
news:OQGre.59010$xm3.9319@attbi_s21...

Quoted message said:

"nj_diver" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Get a helmet type rear view mirror and bolt it to your helmet if
necessary.
Those rear view mirrors that attach to the trike frame are worthless."

Guess I wasn't specific enough about the mirrors.....2 mirrors = 1 on
the bike and 1 on my helmet.

"Trikes are NEVER faster than a road bike".....You are wrong about that
statement (I'm sure not the first time or the last time, for that
matter).

You're another know-it-all but actually know nothing at all.

Yep. Even the new-and-improved Ed still doesn't understand the purpose of
dialogue. Plonk and move on. Life is too short to worry about
know-it-alls like him.

I see that the brainless blank line is still with us. Please, why don't you
try to be even more anonymous. Do not post at all and that will solve your
anonymity problem once and for all. Try to disappear altogether why don't
you?

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota

"Zenin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Edward Dolan said:

Slugger said:

Zenin <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> And except for those who understand basic aerodynamics.
>
Nobody of any credibility ever said Mr. Ed was a genius, cut him some
slack.

Aerodynamics is the ONLY advantage that a recumbent has over an upright
when it comes to speed. But what does aerodynamics have to do with going
UP a hill?

Since when does one only ride up hills? What goes up must come down as
they say. That said...

Glad you agree with me taht erodynamics does nto come into play when goign
UP a hill. did I not already sya somthign about how everybody looks good
going DOWN a hill, even kids on total klunkers? However, recumbents do shine
going down hills, but that does nto amke up for the travail of having to go
up them. Recumbnets will gradually fall behind uprights because of hills.
Teh goign down does nto equal the goign up.

Quoted message said:

The main advantage wedgies have up hills is weight ('bents are
generally
more complex thus higher weight...although the smaller wheels can save
some), but comparing a modern wedgie to a modern SWB 'bent the weight
advantage isn't huge (significant, but not overwhelming...a few pounds
at most). For a trike however, it gets very hard to not add
significant
weight as well as rolling and drive train resistance (but again,
smaller
wheels can help and with 3 of them you don't need the gyroscopic effect
for stability).

Some will try and clame a leverage/torque advantage for hills, but
against a closed position SWB 'bent like a P-38 that argument really
doesn't hold well.

Add a high BB and 'bents gain an endurance advantage as the rider's
legs
don't need to fight gravity as they do on a wedgie. Add to this that
the pull stroke is much easier to get good power from on a high BB
design.

Oh yah...and a high BB 'bent can power around the fastest of turns w/o
any fear of ever dropping a peddle into the road.

Add it all up and "the ONLY advantage that a" wedgie has over a 'bent
is
going up very steep hills (with low wind). Moderate hills they are
about even, while down hill and flats the 'bent will just destroy the
wedgie. If you add much of any headwind and the 'bent starts looking
very good even on steep hills.

Oh yah, there's also the advantages of no neck/back ache, still being
able to spawn children some day, and of course a nice tight r-butt. :-D

-Zenin

I hit "Send" instead of "Spell Check." Here it is correct.

"Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Zenin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Edward Dolan said:

"Slugger" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> Zenin <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>
>> And except for those who understand basic aerodynamics.
>>
> Nobody of any credibility ever said Mr. Ed was a genius, cut him some
> slack.

Aerodynamics is the ONLY advantage that a recumbent has over an upright
when it comes to speed. But what does aerodynamics have to do with going
UP a hill?

Since when does one only ride up hills? What goes up must come down
as
they say. That said...

Edward Dolan said:

Glad you agree with me that aerodynamics does not come into play when
going UP a hill. Did I not already say something about how everybody
looks good going DOWN a hill, even kids on total klunkers? However,
recumbents do shine going down hills, but that does not make up for the
travail of having to go up them. Recumbents will gradually fall behind
uprights because of hills. The going down does not equal the going up.

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Some will try and clame a leverage/torque advantage for hills, but
against a closed position SWB 'bent like a P-38 that argument really
doesn't hold well.

That torque advantage can be very hard on the knees though.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Add a high BB and 'bents gain an endurance advantage as the rider's
legs
don't need to fight gravity as they do on a wedgie. Add to this that
the pull stroke is much easier to get good power from on a high BB
design.

A high BB goes AGAINST the design of our bodies for a working position.
However, a high BB does go WITH the design of our bodies for a resting
position. I don't know about you, but when I am cycling I am working, not
resting. This is all very elementary anatomy and physiology. The high BB has
to do with aerodynamics and with nothing else.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Oh yah...and a high BB 'bent can power around the fastest of turns w/o
any fear of ever dropping a peddle into the road.

I never feel safe making fast turns on any kind of a recumbent.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Add it all up and "the ONLY advantage that a" wedgie has over a 'bent
is
going up very steep hills (with low wind). Moderate hills they are
about even, while down hill and flats the 'bent will just destroy the
wedgie. If you add much of any headwind and the 'bent starts looking
very good even on steep hills.

A recumbent cannot make up for the lost speed it suffers going up a hill no
matter how fast it is able to go down a hill.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Oh yah, there's also the advantages of no neck/back ache, still being
able to spawn children some day, and of course a nice tight r-butt.
:-D

Agreed!

Ed Dolan - Minnesota