This caused so many thoughts to tumble through my head (some directly
related, some tangental) that I had to respond...
"np426z" <[email hidden]> wrote
Quoted message said:I know someone who's been bad. Not a tiny bit bad, or even a
medium-sized
Quoted message said:bit bad, but *very, very* bad. Of their badness I will say little, other
than it was BAD. Of them I can say but a fraction more.
Translation: The deed was bad.
Quoted message said:They are male,
of means, well-educated (and before you put two-and-two together and come
up
Quoted message said:with five, NO, it ain't moi) and have - in my eyes - no apparent reason
for
Quoted message said:falling off the straight and narrow.
Translation: But the doer was really quite like me.
This would cause conflict in any thinking and loyal person. A good sign.
A non-thinking and loyal person would instinctively side with the friend.
A thinking and non-loyal person would send the friend off to prison straight
off.
A non-thinking and non-loyal person would just shrug the whole thing off.
Quoted message said:I knew nothing of their badness until after the dirty deed was done. It
cannot be undone, nor will the application of time, money or effort heal
the
Quoted message said:scars of their stupidity. They confessed their folly to me openly and
freely. They sought my advice upon what to do next.
Thereby transferring some of their burden to you, and possibly putting you
in a morally compromising position. I don't know about this guy...
Quoted message said:So, what should I say? Actually, I know what to say 'cause I've already
said it. I guess I'm raising the subject with you as a sort of 'straw
poll'
Quoted message said:to see if y'all agree with me. I told them to walk away and never speak
to
Quoted message said:anyone, ever again, of their deed.
Depends on the type of deed. A few possibilities come to mind:
1. If it's a breach of trust (like adultery) without physical or financial
harm, and the victim will not discover it without an admission of guilt, I
agree, the best thing is to say nothing. Admitting it will cause nothing
but heartache. Repent, sinners (to the Lord, not necessarily to the wifie).
2. If they murdered somebody, you've got to tell.
3. If they hurt somebody or someone's property, who was bad, you have an
interesting problem. I know someone who has done this...
Quoted message said:Reasons? OK, firstly - as I said - his act can't be undone, therefore
contrition is futile,
Contrition is a form of self-punishment, abasement, really, and sometimes
satisfies the victim.
Quoted message said:punishment merely vengance,
What kind of world would we have if unrepairable wrongs went unpunished?
Quoted message said:and retribution is a matter for the gods.
Final judgement (for those of us of a religious bent) is God's concern, but
societies and parents and other entities are permitted to mete out various
punishments, too. Independent of the Big Guy.
Here's a question: is it ok to kill a hermit/bum/insane person/bad guy
who has no friends, relations, and is completely disconnected from anyone
else? His death harms no one. Can't be undone. No harm, no foul? Or does
society have a right to punish the murderer of *any* person?
Quoted message said:Secondly, this soul has led a blameless life to
date - even, in my eyes, a useful one - therefore I see no-one better
suited
Quoted message said:to be his judge than himself.
This strikes me as nonsense (from a usually sensible source). Is personal
loyalty corrupting your mind? How does B follow A?
Quoted message said:And finally, and *most* importantly, life is
full of odd little events. What looks terrible to me may be judged by
others, in a different time and place, to be sensible or even laudable.
Think of the implications of that argument for a society.
Some real-world examples of what others in different times and places have
done:
When Khomeni took over in Iran, women had the nerve to go out in public
without their faces covered: so they threw acid in their faces! Worked
like a charm! Some meso-American cultures sacrificed 100,000 people a
year -- no problem there, it's just a freedom of religion thing. And it
made tons of sense to the Kmer Rouge in Cambodia to murder the educated and
business classes.
You know he did a terrible thing. It's ok to own it. If it's bad to be
Judgemental, is it bad to have good judgement? We all want to be let off
the hook, don't we? If I don't judge him, maybe I'll get a cosmic credit
when I step over the line.
Quoted message said:have to trust that - based on my knowledge of him, of his life and his
previously demonstrated personal values - he acted as any reasonable
person
Quoted message said:would have, given the circumstances in which he found himself. In other
words, it could have been me.
Well, lots of us have thought about killing someone at some time, haven't
we?
But do we do it? Thankfully, not.
Also, above you said that he "had no apparent reason for falling off the
straight and narrow".
Quoted message said:Is that fair? Does the fact that I accept that I *can* fail excuse the
fact that others *do*?
In a word, no. We can all fail. The struggle we good folk have with moral
issues is a daily fact of life. Just because we *could* gnash our teeth and
plow our speeding car into a crowd doesn't excuse the lady who actually does
it.
Quoted message said:Would it have been worse if he wasn't such a decent bloke?
Can the fact that you've led a good life in any way mitigate
against the commission of a bad act?
Not if you want to punish specific acts of wrongdoing. If you just want to
punish certain classes of people who do these things, then I'd say you have
a defective justice system.
On the other hand, maybe you're on to something: we can issue Evil Debit
cards. We increase the balance for every good thing we've done. And get to
cash it in when we're hauled off before the police.
Quoted message said:Or it it all black and white, right and wrong?
It's ok, there are degrees and intensities of right and wrong, mitigating
circumstances, moral conundrums, etc. But that doesn't invalidate the
notion of right and wrong.
-- Dan
