I Give Up (motorists attitude)

iarocu said:

I was talking to a motorist today discussing a junction
where the council have installed traffic lights where they
are not required resulting in long peak hour tailbacks. I
learned she spent 25 minutes in her car on a journey of 2
miles every morning. So I suggested why not cycle. From
the look I got I might as well have suggested cycling to
the moon. Her journey would involve largely a well lit and
well surfaced cycle path and canal bank or quiet streets.
Would be 10 minutes maximum. No big hills. And be less
than half the time taken in her car. And would not involve
the parking problems at work she had also complained
about. So if people are prepared to sit in their cars for
twice as long as it would take to cycle the goverment
might as well forget targets for cycle use. It's not going
to happen. Iain

I cannot agree more. You can talk and argue until you are
blue in the face but still people will drive just a few
hundred yards. They*know* you are right but they cannot make
the change. There are always excuses.

There is an increase in cycling but mainly of the off-raod
type on leisure car-free routes. When talking to a County
Road Safety Officer recently it was clear the only targets
he was interested in were reducing casualties. If that meant
less cyclists on the roads then so what. Cyclists could
always drive to the Sustrans type routes. Of course the
Leisure Department loves this - greater use of their
facilities, but it does not reduce the number of vehicles on
the roads. Just look at the number of vehicles that now have
bikes strapped to the back of them :-( Indeed such
activities may increase car use. "I HAVE to have a car so I
can get to the cycle route" Just one of the many excuses.

Everytime someone drives they add to the problem. Yes, even
driving to cycling events and rallies. People drive from all
over the country to York or the New Forest then compalin
about the road conditions for cyclists. Get real.

IMO there will be a crunch time - it will be when there is
no more space and those of us who have not fallen into the
car-culture will have the advantage. only problem is taht we
may have to take to the pavements :-(

I don't think it will be too long coming.

John B

iarocu said:

I was talking to a motorist today discussing a junction
where the council have installed traffic lights where they
are not required resulting in long peak hour tailbacks. I
learned she spent 25 minutes in her car on a journey of 2
miles every morning. So I suggested why not cycle. From
the look I got I might as well have suggested cycling to
the moon.

<snipped>

25 mins to go 2 miles!!! Hell, you could run it faster than
that and not break a sweat.

iarocu said:

So if people are prepared to sit in their cars for twice
as long ....

a guy at work tells of a neighbour who pulls out of her
drive into the queue for the school run (big 4x4 obviously)
and queues the few hundred yards to the school, then drives
the long way home to avoid school traffic. She cant let the
little cherubs walk because of the traffic, and she knows it
would be quicker to walk with them but she's bought the car
so may as well use it ....

JohnB said:

I cannot agree more. You can talk and argue until you are
blue in the face but still people will drive just a few
hundred yards. They*know* you are right but they cannot
make the change. There are always excuses.

This sounds like almost as horrible a generalisation as
"cyclists are all lawless lycra louts who hold up traffic
and strike terror into the hearts of innocent pedestrians"

I can quite believe there are some people like that: I've
worked with a few people myself who I don't expect to see on
a bike ever in my life (perhaps barring major life-shaking
event of the "good morning Mr Smith, the operation seems to
have been successful; now make sure you take regular
exercise or you won't last to the end of the year"😉. Doesn't
mean _everyone_ is like that, though. The oft-quoted
statistic is that cycle use increased 30% in London since
the congestion charge was introduced, so clearly at least a
year ago there were non-cyclists who weren't completely car-
blinded. I doubt the supply is exhausted even now.

Quoted message said:

IMO there will be a crunch time - it will be when there is
no more space and those of us who have not fallen into the
car-culture will have the advantage. only problem is taht
we may have to take to the pavements :-(

Yay pedal-powered post-apocalypse scenarios. I should pop
into my LBS this weekend sometime and see if they've got any
rotating knives I can clip to my spokes.

-dan

--
"please make sure that the person is your friend before
you confirm"

Phil Clarke said:

iarocu said:

So if people are prepared to sit in their cars for twice
as long ....

a guy at work tells of a neighbour who pulls out of her
drive into the queue for the school run (big 4x4
obviously) and queues the few hundred yards to the school,
then drives the long way home to avoid school traffic. She
cant let the little cherubs walk because of the traffic,
and she knows it would be quicker to walk with them but
she's bought the car so may as well use it ....

There's many a parent around here drives a full 400 yards to
take their precious bundles to school,shameful.

Sam Salt

"iarocu" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

So if people are prepared to sit in their cars for twice as
long as it would take to cycle the goverment might as well
forget targets for cycle use. It's not going to happen.

But since people are prepared to do this, the voices
claiming its the gummint's fault that roads are inadequate
can be safely ignored.

Daniel Barlow said:

JohnB said:

I cannot agree more. You can talk and argue until you
are blue in the face but still people will drive just a
few hundred yards. They*know* you are right but they
cannot make the change. There are always excuses.

This sounds like almost as horrible a generalisation as
"cyclists are all lawless lycra louts who hold up traffic
and strike terror into the hearts of innocent pedestrians"

I don't say *all* people, although IME it would be the vast
majority of motorists (including many who also claim to be
cyclists).

Quoted message said:

I can quite believe there are some people like that: I've
worked with a few people myself who I don't expect to see
on a bike ever in my life ...... Doesn't mean _everyone_
is like that, though.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

IMO there will be a crunch time - it will be when there
is no more space and those of us who have not fallen
into the car-culture will have the advantage. only
problem is taht we may have to take to the pavements :-(

Yay pedal-powered post-apocalypse scenarios. I should pop
into my LBS this weekend sometime and see if they've got
any rotating knives I can clip to my spokes.

In days of yore a fellow barrow-boy clubmate had an
"attachment" [1] fixed the hub flange of his trike's
offside wheel.

[1] I'll say no more, but it was pretty lethal to paintwork.

John B

JohnB said:

Just look at the number of vehicles that now have bikes
strapped to the back of them :-(

Yeah, the mountain bike wheel sticking out from the side of
one of them seemed to come worryingly close to my head on a
narrow road the other day.

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my
reply address)
<URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/> "He who
dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

Scrumpy Joe:

Quoted message said:

25 mins to go 2 miles!!! Hell, you could run it faster
than that and not break a sweat.

Run? Two miles in 25 minutes sounds more like a brisk walk!

d.

Sam Salt:

Quoted message said:

There's many a parent around here drives a full 400 yards
to take their precious bundles to school,shameful.

We live less than 150 yards from the school so anything
other than walking (or scooting, as is my son's current
preferred mode of transport) would be worse than ludicrous.

However, I know several of the other parents that live not
much further away who drive to school every morning - I know
this because often the closest they can park is outside my
house, so they end up spending all that time battling the
traffic and contributing to the pollution problem just to
cut about 100 yards off their walk. Absolutely insane.

d.

"Daniel Barlow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

JohnB said:

I cannot agree more. You can talk and argue until you
are blue in the face but still people will drive just a
few hundred yards. They*know* you are right but they
cannot make the change. There are always excuses.

This sounds like almost as horrible a generalisation as
"cyclists are all lawless lycra louts who hold up traffic
and strike terror into the hearts of innocent pedestrians"

I can quite believe there are some people like that: I've
worked with a few people myself who I don't expect to see
on a bike ever in my life (perhaps barring major life-
shaking event of the "good morning Mr Smith, the operation
seems to have been successful; now make sure you take
regular exercise or you won't last to the end of the
year"😉. Doesn't mean _everyone_ is like that, though. The
oft-quoted statistic is that cycle use increased 30% in
London since the congestion charge was introduced, so
clearly at least a year ago there were non-cyclists who
weren't completely car-blinded. I doubt the supply is
exhausted even now.

I agree with this. What we need is some means of making the
first mile or three of a car journey really quite awkward,
to deter people from the shorter journeys. For example, if
the govt. were to introduce road tolls, you could have a
very high charge for the first few miles, (in order to deter
stupidly short journeys), after which the per mile rate
would decrease for every mile after that so you don't end up
with a penalty on reasonable car journeys.

I agree that people know that they shouldn't drive such
short journeys - but I don't think most people realise *why*
they shouldn't drive such short journeys. I think people
would be much more sensible if they realised how much it
costs them to make such short journeys (as Guy points out in
his one mile pledge post), instead of just preaching to
people (as most people will simply switch off from that).

"iarocu" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

So if people are prepared to sit in their cars for
twice as long as it would take to cycle the goverment
might as well forget targets for cycle use. It's not
going to happen.

No kudos in the car park if you arrive on a "push bike".

--
Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W
simonmason.karoo.netsimonmason.karoo.netOpen ↗

davek said:

Scrumpy Joe:

Quoted message said:

25 mins to go 2 miles!!! Hell, you could run it faster
than that and not break a sweat.

Run? Two miles in 25 minutes sounds more like a
brisk walk!

d.

OK you got me there :-). I was trying to be generous to
unfit cagers. Personally speaking I'm being lazy when it
takes me 15 mins to run 2 miles.

Phil Clarke [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

iarocu said:

So if people are prepared to sit in their cars for
twice as long ....

a guy at work tells of a neighbour who pulls out of her
drive into the queue for the school run (big 4x4
obviously) and queues the few hundred yards to the school,
then drives the long way home to avoid school traffic. She
cant let the little cherubs walk because of the traffic,
and she knows it would be quicker to walk with them but
she's bought the car so may as well use it ....

Materials:

A strip of strong material about 5 metres in length x 20cm
wide. A box of small nails. Superglue.

Directions:

Starting about 1 metre into the material, push nails through
material. Secure with a small amount of superglue. When dry,
lay it across the road (With practice, it can probably be
cast like a fishing line). Wait until aforementioned 4x4 has
passed. Use un- nailed end to pull it in and pack away for
future use. (It could be painted black / dark grey to blend
in with the road.

When she acquires 4 punctures. Help her push the car into
the drive (All the while explaining how much easier it would
be if she had a normal car) and offer to walk the "cherubs"
to school while she waits for the AA.

Repeat as necessary.

Jon

Daniel Barlow [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

This sounds like almost as horrible a generalisation as
"cyclists are all lawless lycra louts who hold up traffic
and strike terror into the hearts of innocent pedestrians"

I can quite believe there are some people like that: I've
worked with a few people myself who I don't expect to see
on a bike ever in my life (perhaps barring major life-
shaking event of the "good morning Mr Smith, the
operation seems to have been successful; now make sure
you take regular exercise or you won't last to the end of
the year"😉.

I work with some who still wouldn't. One drives either his
car or a company vehicle about 2 miles (MAX) to and from his
house every day. When I suggested that as the weather was
nice, he should try cycling it; "Oh no... You wouldn't get
me on a bike!". Very few people at my work place live more
than 5 miles from work (direct) and at least one of the ones
further afield is basically on NCN1. I shall be putting up
some posters for Bike2Work next week, although I doubt that
most would be shamed into cycling.

Quoted message said:

Doesn't mean _everyone_ is like that, though. The oft-
quoted statistic is that cycle use increased 30% in London
since the congestion charge was introduced, so clearly at
least a year ago there were non-cyclists who weren't
completely car-blinded. I doubt the supply is exhausted
even now.

Congestion charge is coming... Congestion charge is
coming... Let's see if there's a similar response in
Edinburgh.

Quoted message said:

Yay pedal-powered post-apocalypse scenarios. I should pop
into my LBS this weekend sometime and see if they've got
any rotating knives I can clip to my spokes.

Now there's a plan. Obvious handlbar mounted ones might
not be a bad idea as it'd discourage drivers from getting
too close.

Jon

Reply to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yay pedal-powered post-apocalypse scenarios. I should
pop into my LBS this weekend sometime and see if they've
got any rotating knives I can clip to my spokes.

Now there's a plan. Obvious handlbar mounted ones might
not be a bad idea as it'd discourage drivers from getting
too close.

As ever, Sheldon Brown has addressed the matter:

sheldonbrown.comlirpa.htmlOpen ↗

--
Mark, UK. We hope to hear him swear, we love to hear him
squeak, We like to see him biting fingers in his horny beak.

Simon Mason said:

"iarocu" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

So if people are prepared to sit in their cars for
twice as long as it would take to cycle the goverment
might as well forget targets for cycle use. It's not
going to happen.

No kudos in the car park if you arrive on a "push bike".

If you arrive on the bike regualrly, you start to lose the
gut, your [censored] and legs trim up a bit and your [censored] gets
bigger (1).

You get more eye-ups from women.

Sod the kudos from the petrol heads.

(1) I read it so it must be true, fat tissue creates
oestrogen which makes it smaller. Also a thinner layer
of subcutanious fat makes it stick out further.

--
Andy Morris

AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK

Love this:
Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes
home.in.tum.deoe quotefixOpen ↗

AndyMorris said:

If you arrive on the bike regualrly, you start to lose the
gut, your [censored] and legs trim up a bit and your [censored] gets
bigger (1).

You mean all those e-mails I've been sending to the Spam bin
were really about cycling?

Tony ;-)