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I forgot oblivious (Crash report)

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Road Cycling
Published
10 December 2003
Last activity
16 December 2003
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Dane Jackson
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  1. So not too long ago I was ranting about *potential* accidents. This week I get to report my first
    actual accident. whee.

    So I'm heading home after work along Eastgate way (yes the same place one of the previously
    mentioned incidents took place). I'm moving at a decent pace, but I'm in no rush. I'm just enjoying
    a nice ride home after a moderately long day of developing my cathode ray tube tan.

    It's been raining today off and on, but it's clear out now. The sun set about an hour ago, but
    traffic is unusually light. I'm all kitted out with a 16 watt headlight, dual rear blinkies, nice
    hi-viz jacket, etc. So I'm quite possibly the most visible thing on the street. I've just passed the
    street right before Bank of America and am about to pass their entrance. I notice someone stopped in
    the median waiting to turn into the bank, he doesn't seem to be moving. I look at the entrance on my
    right, someone is there, but I can see them looking at me, and they seem to be stopped.

    I'm about 10 yards from the entrance when the person to my left, who was stopped in the median
    starts turning very quickly into the entrance. I grab my brakes and try to turn left behind him. But
    there is not nearly enough room left for this. I basically have time to scream "What are you doing
    you stupid" *THUD*.

    I slam into his front quarter panel, coming off my bike onto his hood. My hip impacts the side of
    his car, I end up taking most of the impact on my back as I slam into his windshield. I don't have
    quite enough momentum to go over his hood. So I end up rolling off, back onto the side my bike is
    lying. I get up fairly quickly and assess the damage to myself. I don't seem to have broken anything
    and seem to be mostly intact.

    The fellow getting out of his car looks to be middle aged. He basically said a lot of "Are you
    all right", "I'm sorry", etc. We ended up pulling ourselves into the parking lot and gathering
    each other's information. A kind soul gave me her name and phone number if I needed a witness.
    The real irony is that guy who caused the accident works for an insurance company and was driving
    a company car.

    Oh and later I found out he said "I didn't see him". Bloody typical.

    Examining my bike, the fork is *rather* bent, the wheel is moderately tacoed. Bugger. I walk back to
    work carrying my bike. Eventually my wife comes and picks me up and I go home to drown my sorrows in
    cold theobromine rich substances.

    I've heard back from the (third-party) insurance adjustor. Between my account and the witnesses,
    they concede that I was entirely in the right. I just got back my estimate from the shop. The bike
    is toast (fork, front wheel, stem, handlebar, frame bent (Al)). The insurance company is
    compensating me plus a bit, so it's time to get a new bike.

    My old bike was a Giant OCR2, which served me reasonably well. I have to admit I was planning on
    putting more than 12,000 miles on it. But such will not be the case. My main points of
    dissatisfaction with it were the short chainstays (preventing me using panniers), and the lack of
    room for tires and room for fenders.

    I'm looking at the Fuji Touring or possibly some cross bikes. Time to hit the bike shops.

    --
    Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g "No doubt Jack the Ripper excused himself
    on the grounds that it was human nature." -A. A. Milne

  2. "Dane Jackson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I slam into his front quarter panel, coming off my bike onto his hood. My hip impacts the side of
    his car, I end up taking most of the impact on my back as I slam into his windshield. I don't have
    quite enough momentum to go over his hood. So I end up rolling off, back onto the side my bike is
    lying. I get up fairly quickly and assess the damage to myself. I don't seem to have broken
    anything and seem to be mostly intact.

    Police report.

    Doctor's exam.

    It's not (only) about the bike.

    RichC

  3. In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    So not too long ago I was ranting about *potential* accidents. This week I get to report my first
    actual accident. whee.

    So I'm heading home after work along Eastgate way (yes the same place one of the previously
    mentioned incidents took place). I'm moving at a decent pace, but I'm in no rush. I'm just
    enjoying a nice ride home after a moderately long day of developing my cathode ray tube tan.

    It's been raining today off and on, but it's clear out now. The sun set about an hour ago, but
    traffic is unusually light. I'm all kitted out with a 16 watt headlight, dual rear blinkies, nice
    hi-viz jacket, etc. So I'm quite possibly the most visible thing on the street. I've just passed
    the street right before Bank of America and am about to pass their entrance. I notice someone
    stopped in the median waiting to turn into the bank, he doesn't seem to be moving. I look at the
    entrance on my right, someone is there, but I can see them looking at me, and they seem to be
    stopped.

    I'm about 10 yards from the entrance when the person to my left, who was stopped in the median
    starts turning very quickly into the entrance. I grab my brakes and try to turn left behind him.
    But there is not nearly enough room left for this. I basically have time to scream "What are you
    doing you stupid" *THUD*.

    I slam into his front quarter panel, coming off my bike onto his hood. My hip impacts the side of
    his car, I end up taking most of the impact on my back as I slam into his windshield. I don't have
    quite enough momentum to go over his hood. So I end up rolling off, back onto the side my bike is
    lying. I get up fairly quickly and assess the damage to myself. I don't seem to have broken
    anything and seem to be mostly intact.

    Glad to hear you're ok.

    Quoted message said:

    The fellow getting out of his car looks to be middle aged. He basically said a lot of "Are you
    all right", "I'm sorry", etc. We ended up pulling ourselves into the parking lot and gathering
    each other's information. A kind soul gave me her name and phone number if I needed a witness.
    The real irony is that guy who caused the accident works for an insurance company and was driving
    a company car.

    Oh and later I found out he said "I didn't see him". Bloody typical.

    Examining my bike, the fork is *rather* bent, the wheel is moderately tacoed. Bugger. I walk back
    to work carrying my bike. Eventually my wife comes and picks me up and I go home to drown my
    sorrows in cold theobromine rich substances.

    I've heard back from the (third-party) insurance adjustor. Between my account and the witnesses,
    they concede that I was entirely in the right. I just got back my estimate from the shop. The bike
    is toast (fork, front wheel, stem, handlebar, frame bent (Al)). The insurance company

    Bummer.

    Quoted message said:

    is compensating me plus a bit, so it's time to get a new bike.

    But not all bad news.

    Quoted message said:

    My old bike was a Giant OCR2, which served me reasonably well. I have to admit I was planning on
    putting more than 12,000 miles on it. But such will not be the case. My main points of
    dissatisfaction with it were the short chainstays (preventing me using panniers), and the lack of
    room for tires and room for fenders.

    I'm looking at the Fuji Touring or possibly some cross bikes. Time to

    I love my 2003 Fuji Touring. I prefer the maroon color of the 2003 to the green of the 2004, though.

    Quoted message said:

    hit the bike shops.

    --
    Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

    REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

  4. Quoted message said:

    So not too long ago I was ranting about *potential* accidents. This week I get to report my first
    actual accident. whee.

    From the title, I thought you had done something stupid to have your first accident. But from the
    account, it was a boneheaded driver who apparantly thinks bicycles and their riders are invisible.

    If I were the insurance people for the other side, I would want a medical release from you before a
    paid a penny. That is just reasonable. From your side, I would strongly urge you to be sure that you
    have no injury from this incident before you sign a release. As a suggestion, be sure that they pay
    replacement value on a new equivilent bike to the one that was totalled and not just the value of a
    used bike. A bike is cheap thrills and I think given that you were probably injured, lost time, lost
    transport, were inconvenienced, that you can with justification ask for a more then just
    replacelment value of you old bike. You can say that you would consider an upgraded bike to
    compensate you for all the bother.

  5. "Dane Jackson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    So not too long ago I was ranting about *potential* accidents. This week I get to report my first
    actual accident. whee.

    So I'm heading home after work along Eastgate way (yes the same place one of the previously
    mentioned incidents took place). I'm moving at a decent pace, but I'm in no rush. I'm just
    enjoying a nice ride home after a moderately long day of developing my cathode ray tube tan.

    It's been raining today off and on, but it's clear out now. The sun set about an hour ago, but
    traffic is unusually light. I'm all kitted out with a 16 watt headlight, dual rear blinkies, nice
    hi-viz jacket, etc. So I'm quite possibly the most visible thing on the street. I've just passed
    the street right before Bank of America and am about to pass their entrance. I notice someone
    stopped in the median waiting to turn into the bank, he doesn't seem to be moving. I look at the
    entrance on my right, someone is there, but I can see them looking at me, and they seem to be
    stopped.

    I'm about 10 yards from the entrance when the person to my left, who was stopped in the median
    starts turning very quickly into the entrance. I grab my brakes and try to turn left behind him.
    But there is not nearly enough room left for this. I basically have time to scream "What are you
    doing you stupid" *THUD*.

    I slam into his front quarter panel, coming off my bike onto his hood. My hip impacts the side of
    his car, I end up taking most of the impact on my back as I slam into his windshield. I don't have
    quite enough momentum to go over his hood. So I end up rolling off, back onto the side my bike is
    lying. I get up fairly quickly and assess the damage to myself. I don't seem to have broken
    anything and seem to be mostly intact.

    The fellow getting out of his car looks to be middle aged. He basically said a lot of "Are you
    all right", "I'm sorry", etc. We ended up pulling ourselves into the parking lot and gathering
    each other's information. A kind soul gave me her name and phone number if I needed a witness.
    The real irony is that guy who caused the accident works for an insurance company and was driving
    a company car.

    Oh and later I found out he said "I didn't see him". Bloody typical.

    Examining my bike, the fork is *rather* bent, the wheel is moderately tacoed. Bugger. I walk back
    to work carrying my bike. Eventually my wife comes and picks me up and I go home to drown my
    sorrows in cold theobromine rich substances.

    I've heard back from the (third-party) insurance adjustor. Between my account and the witnesses,
    they concede that I was entirely in the right. I just got back my estimate from the shop. The bike
    is toast (fork, front wheel, stem, handlebar, frame bent (Al)). The insurance company is
    compensating me plus a bit, so it's time to get a new bike.

    My old bike was a Giant OCR2, which served me reasonably well. I have to admit I was planning on
    putting more than 12,000 miles on it. But such will not be the case. My main points of
    dissatisfaction with it were the short chainstays (preventing me using panniers), and the lack of
    room for tires and room for fenders.

    I'm looking at the Fuji Touring or possibly some cross bikes. Time to hit the bike shops.

    --
    Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g "No doubt Jack the Ripper excused
    himself on the grounds that it was human nature." -A. A. Milne

    I've recounted my very similar incident here numerous times and, since some folks seem to be
    offended by my retelling of it, I'll spare them.

    My injuries were quite serious, but the worst of them didn't show up initially and didn't cause me
    any problems initially -- a compression fracture of the spine. It was 3 months later that pain began
    to set in at the middle of my back and, only then did X-rays discover that fracture.

    As others have already advised, don't assume you're OK and DON'T SIGN ANYTHING! Get to the doctor
    and get checked out. And, be especially careful of the waiver they (insurance company) try to give
    you when they present you a check for the bike. A property settlement should be just that -- for
    property only. If there's any language releasing them from responsibility for any medical or other
    claims you might have, tell them to stuff it. Tell them you'll take their check but you won't sign
    their release. It worked for me. (It's customary that there's a property settlement right away,
    then issues like medical, lost wages, pain and suffering, etc. are settled down the road when they
    can be tallied.)

    Glad you seem to be OK.

    Bob C.

  6. In article <[email hidden]>, Dane Jackson

    Quoted message said:

    So not too long ago I was ranting about *potential* accidents. This week I get to report my first
    actual accident. whee.

    So I'm heading home after work along Eastgate way (yes the same place one of the previously
    mentioned incidents took place). I'm moving at a decent pace, but I'm in no rush. I'm just
    enjoying a nice ride home after a moderately long day of developing my cathode ray tube tan.


    SNIP

    Quoted message said:

    I'm looking at the Fuji Touring or possibly some cross bikes. Time to hit the bike shops.

    That sucks! Good luck getting a new bike. I have a Kona cross bike, a great commuter and bad
    weather/bad road bike.

    Of course, no need to say how lucky you were being able to get up and walk away. But if your back
    starts giving you trouble, get it checked out. I had an accident last year, landed right on my lower
    back- it took weeks for it to stop killing me although I didn't break anything. So take it easy!

  7. "Rich Clark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Dane Jackson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I slam into his front quarter panel, coming off my bike onto his hood. My hip impacts the side
    of his car, I end up taking most of the impact on my back as I slam into his windshield. I don't
    have quite enough momentum to go over his hood. So I end up rolling off, back onto the side my
    bike is lying. I get up fairly quickly and assess the damage to myself. I don't seem to have
    broken anything and seem to be mostly intact.

    Police report.

    Doctor's exam.

    It's not (only) about the bike.

    RichC


    Yeah really ... these things can haunt you for years, especially when you get older. If your bike is
    toast, you must have done damage to yourself, even if it only shows up later.

    I hope you didn't sign anything yet ... why do you think the insurance company was so eager to make
    you "happy"?

    C.Q.C.

  8. Rich Clark said:

    "Dane Jackson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I slam into his front quarter panel, coming off my bike onto his hood. My hip impacts the side of
    his car, I end up taking most of the impact on my back as I slam into his windshield. I don't
    have quite enough momentum to go over his hood. So I end up rolling off, back onto the side my
    bike is lying. I get up fairly quickly and assess the damage to myself. I don't seem to have
    broken anything and seem to be mostly intact.

    Quoted message said:

    Police report.

    Should probably have done that.

    Quoted message said:

    Doctor's exam.

    Oh, I definitely did that. Exam, x-rays, the whole nine yards. My post was just getting a wee bit
    long and I was getting ready for bed.

    Quoted message said:

    It's not (only) about the bike.

    Heresy!

    😉

    --
    Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g Aphasia: Loss of speech in social
    scientists when asked at parties, "But of what use is your research?"

  9. archer ns_archer1960@ns_hotmail.com said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    Glad to hear you're ok.

    Thanks.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    is compensating me plus a bit, so it's time to get a new bike.

    Quoted message said:

    But not all bad news.

    True, though I would much rather be just riding my old one. 🙁

    OTOH, I can stop feeling guilty about all the maintenance I had been putting off. 🙂

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I'm looking at the Fuji Touring or possibly some cross bikes. Time to

    Quoted message said:

    I love my 2003 Fuji Touring. I prefer the maroon color of the 2003 to the green of the
    2004, though.

    That seems to be the consensus. I'm definitely going to try and test ride some of those. I remember
    Recycled Cycles and a couple other shops around Seattle carry them.

    --
    Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g "Good generally conquers evil. Unless, of
    course, good is stupid."

  10. Pbwalther said:
    Quoted message said:

    So not too long ago I was ranting about *potential* accidents. This week I get to report my first
    actual accident. whee.

    Quoted message said:

    From the title, I thought you had done something stupid to have your first accident. But from the
    account, it was a boneheaded driver who apparantly thinks bicycles and their riders are invisible.

    It's actually a reference to my previous thread about car/bike interactions. I really want to
    believe there was a way to avoid this accident, but I can't think of much I could have done. Short
    of traveling 5 MPH with road flares sticking out on every side.

    Not that I haven't done stupid things on the bike (in and out of traffic) , but not in a long while.
    I was being nice and alert, watching for exactly this sort of thing. Bah.

    Quoted message said:

    If I were the insurance people for the other side, I would want a medical release from you before
    a paid a penny. That is just reasonable. From your

    Actually the bike damage and any injury claim are being handled totally separately. So that's not
    too much of a concern.

    Quoted message said:

    side, I would strongly urge you to be sure that you have no injury from this incident before you
    sign a release. As a suggestion, be sure that they pay replacement value on a new equivilent bike
    to the one that was totalled and not just the value of a used bike. A bike is cheap thrills and I
    think given that

    I was already planning on being very adamant about that. Of course if they want to compensate me for
    the time it would take to find an equivalent used bike to the tune of my hourly wage I might be okay
    with that. 🙂

    Quoted message said:

    you were probably injured, lost time, lost transport, were inconvenienced, that you can with
    justification ask for a more then just replacelment value of you old bike. You can say that you
    would consider an upgraded bike to compensate you for all the bother.

    I'm still in the process of talking to the adjustor. We'll see what develops. So far they've been
    very cooperative and upfront. Hopefully this continues, and we don't have yet another story about a
    cyclist who was screwed by the insurance industry. <fingers crossed>

    --
    Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g "No doubt Jack the Ripper excused himself
    on the grounds that it was human nature." -A. A. Milne

  11. "Pbwalther" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    So not too long ago I was ranting about *potential* accidents. This week I get to report my first
    actual accident. whee.

    From the title, I thought you had done something stupid to have your first accident. But from the
    account, it was a boneheaded driver who apparantly thinks bicycles and their riders are invisible.

    If I were the insurance people for the other side, I would want a medical release from you before
    a paid a penny. That is just reasonable. From


    your

    Quoted message said:

    side, I would strongly urge you to be sure that you have no injury from


    this

    Quoted message said:

    incident before you sign a release. As a suggestion, be sure that they


    pay

    Quoted message said:

    replacement value on a new equivilent bike to the one that was totalled


    and not

    Quoted message said:

    just the value of a used bike. A bike is cheap thrills and I think given


    that

    Quoted message said:

    you were probably injured, lost time, lost transport, were inconvenienced,


    that

    Quoted message said:

    you can with justification ask for a more then just replacelment value of


    you

    Quoted message said:

    old bike. You can say that you would consider an upgraded bike to


    compensate

    Quoted message said:

    you for all the bother.

    Further to this post, and from the voice of direct experience, you should expect replacement value
    of the bike as an immediate "property settlement." You should have your LBS give you a quote for the
    cost to replace the bike, any clothing that was ruined, the helmet if it needs replacement, etc. My
    insurance company accepted that without question and issued a check made out to the penny.

    Then, at the very minimum, your settlement for your pain and suffering, inconvenience, etc. should
    be for AT LEAST triple your quantifiable losses -- the replacement cost of your bike, plus your
    medical expenses, plus any lost wages from work if you had to take time off to go to the doc, etc.
    You should get three-times without any problem whatsoever. Depending on the severity and whether or
    not there were witnesses, etc., you can get as much as five times. Sometimes it takes a lawyers help
    to push that envelope and, if you hire a lawyer, they're going to take a third. You should be able
    to get three-times on your own by just being smart and acting like you know what you're doing.
    That's a reasonable position and, if they're reasonable, they'll take it and be glad to have the
    matter resolved.

    Bob C.

  12. In article <[email hidden]>, Dane Jackson

    Quoted message said:
    Rich Clark said:

    "Dane Jackson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I slam into his front quarter panel, coming off my bike onto his hood. My hip impacts the side
    of his car, I end up taking most of the impact on my back as I slam into his windshield. I
    don't have quite enough momentum to go over his hood. So I end up rolling off, back onto the
    side my bike is lying. I get up fairly quickly and assess the damage to myself. I don't seem to
    have broken anything and seem to be mostly intact.

    Quoted message said:

    Police report.

    Should probably have done that.


    NOt too late- go to the local cop shop and fill it out. I did that last year after my
    aforementioned accident. Only someone had to fill it out for me! I had a broken bone in my right
    hand! Always fill out an accident report- not everyone can do it right away, needless to say.

  13. "Dane Jackson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    So I'm heading home after work along Eastgate way

    I know for you Eastgate Way is the most direct route. However, for the PM commute, you might want to
    consider using SE 38th for descending the hill to the start of the I-90 trail, because there are no
    possible turning movements into you. In general, the Eastgate Way accident statistics are not
    pretty. You can see the map here for the SE 38th option: jimcarson.comi90
    connector.jpg. Oh, and what the heck -- you can see some of Jim's commute here:
    jimcarson.com000023.shtml and jimcarson.com000025.shtml
    which parallels much of what both of us ride.

    Quoted message said:

    It's been raining today off and on, but it's clear out now. The sun set about an hour ago, but
    traffic is unusually light. I'm all kitted out with a 16 watt headlight, dual rear blinkies, nice
    hi-viz jacket, etc.

    I've said that I want my obituary to read that I and my bike were wearing all possible items for
    visibility: the headlight, the multiple blinkies, the foam hat festooned with reflective stickers,
    the day-glo yellow jacket and orange reflective vest. I'm glad I didn't read *your* obituary.

    Quoted message said:

    I basically have time to scream "What are you doing you stupid" *THUD*.

    I am curious as to exactly which day this happened to you. After our recent storm, many stop lights
    were out all over the city and motorists were stuck in horrendous traffic as many major arterials
    were transformed into continuous four-way stops. I was initally completely oblivious to this
    problem, as I ride most of the way from my home to the I-90 trail on minor arterials. But I did
    notice that motorists were a little crazy that day. I got nearly hit at the four-way at 156th and
    Lake Hills Blvd. by someone who apparently did not believe bicycles got a turn. Apparently a friend
    of mine was a few cars back in the intersection and heard my shrill, life-or-death shriek of "HEY!
    WATCH IT!" and said to herself, "I recognize that scream!" And then, just stuff that usually doesn't
    happen, like people honking at me for my sheer existence, happened that day. I thought it was me,
    carrying bad mojo. Later, I heard how bad it was for all the cars. Sometimes things are not about
    you, it's not bad mojo about you, it's bad mojo generated elsewhere and being carried by others.

    So if all of this happened last Friday, then I can especially see how this sort of thing could
    have happened.

    Quoted message said:

    The insurance company is compensating me plus a bit, so it's time to get a new bike.

    At least there's some compensation!

    Man, I'm glad you weren't hurt more seriously. You take care, now, you hear?

    --
    Warm Regards,

    Claire Petersky
    Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato and .net for .com

    Home of the meditative cyclist:
    home.earthlink.netWelcome.htm

    Books just wanna be FREE! See what I mean at:
    bookcrossing.comCpetersky

  14. psycholist said:


    "Pbwalther" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20031210095224.01860.00000640@mb-
    m18.aol.com...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    So not too long ago I was ranting about *potential* accidents. This week I get to report my
    first actual accident. whee.

    From the title, I thought you had done something stupid to have your first accident. But from
    the account, it was a boneheaded driver who apparantly thinks bicycles and their riders are
    invisible.

    If I were the insurance people for the other side, I would want a medical release from you
    before a paid a penny. That is just reasonable. From


    your

    Quoted message said:

    side, I would strongly urge you to be sure that you have no injury from


    this

    Quoted message said:

    incident before you sign a release. As a suggestion, be sure that they


    pay

    Quoted message said:

    replacement value on a new equivilent bike to the one that was totalled


    and not

    Quoted message said:

    just the value of a used bike. A bike is cheap thrills and I think given


    that

    Quoted message said:

    you were probably injured, lost time, lost transport, were inconvenienced,


    that

    Quoted message said:

    you can with justification ask for a more then just replacelment value of


    you

    Quoted message said:

    old bike. You can say that you would consider an upgraded bike to


    compensate

    Quoted message said:

    you for all the bother.

    Further to this post, and from the voice of direct experience, you should expect replacement value
    of the bike as an immediate "property settlement." You should have your LBS give you a quote for
    the cost to replace the bike, any clothing that was ruined, the helmet if it needs replacement,
    etc. My insurance company accepted that without question and issued a check made out to the penny.

    Then, at the very minimum, your settlement for your pain and suffering, inconvenience, etc. should
    be for AT LEAST triple your quantifiable losses -- the replacement cost of your bike, plus your
    medical expenses, plus any lost wages from work if you had to take time off to go to the doc, etc.
    You should get three-times without any problem whatsoever. Depending on the severity and whether
    or not there were witnesses, etc., you can get as much as five times. Sometimes it takes a lawyers
    help to push that envelope and, if you hire a lawyer, they're going to take a third. You should be
    able to get three-times on your own by just being smart and acting like you know what you're
    doing. That's a reasonable position and, if they're reasonable, they'll take it and be glad to
    have the matter resolved.

    And if it's [still] legal [in your state, if that matters], your health insurance may not
    coordinate with his liability insurance, making any medical treatment/diagnosis an actual profit
    center. When that happened to me both insurance companies knew that both were paying, but that was
    within the rules.

    --
    Cheers, Bev
    ************************************************************
    "Let them eat [censored]."

    -- Marcel Antoinette, Marie's little-known brother

  15. Dane,

    Glad that you weren't seriously injured.

    The potential for this type of accident is the reason that I have a helmet mounted head light. I
    routinely use it to flash vehicles that could possible pull into my path from either side. This has
    already saved my hide on several occasions. There is no substitute for active illumination.

    Reflectors and reflective material require proper aiming and incident light to work properly. LED
    blinkeys require even more critical aiming to be effective. The best way to sort all of this out is
    with a buddy to check your visibility under different night time driving situations. You might be
    surprised by the results. You may not be nearly as visible as you think you are.

    Regards,

    Steve

    Dane Jackson said:

    So not too long ago I was ranting about *potential* accidents. This week I get to report my first
    actual accident. whee.

    So I'm heading home after work along Eastgate way (yes the same place one of the previously
    mentioned incidents took place). I'm moving at a decent pace, but I'm in no rush. I'm just enjoying
    a nice ride home after a moderately long day of developing my cathode ray tube tan.

    It's been raining today off and on, but it's clear out now. The sun set about an hour ago, but
    traffic is unusually light. I'm all kitted out with a 16 watt headlight, dual rear blinkies,
    nice hi-viz jacket, etc. So I'm quite possibly the most visible thing on the street. I've just
    passed the street right before Bank of America and am about to pass their entrance. I notice
    someone stopped in the median waiting to turn into the bank, he doesn't seem to be moving. I
    look at the entrance on my right, someone is there, but I can see them looking at me, and they
    seem to be stopped.

    I'm about 10 yards from the entrance when the person to my left, who was stopped in the median
    starts turning very quickly into the entrance. I grab my brakes and try to turn left behind him.
    But there is not nearly enough room left for this. I basically have time to scream "What are you
    doing you stupid" *THUD*.

    I slam into his front quarter panel, coming off my bike onto his hood. My hip impacts the side of
    his car, I end up taking most of the impact on my back as I slam into his windshield. I don't have
    quite enough momentum to go over his hood. So I end up rolling off, back onto the side my bike is
    lying. I get up fairly quickly and assess the damage to myself. I don't seem to have broken
    anything and seem to be mostly intact.

    The fellow getting out of his car looks to be middle aged. He basically said a lot of "Are you
    all right", "I'm sorry", etc. We ended up pulling ourselves into the parking lot and gathering
    each other's information. A kind soul gave me her name and phone number if I needed a witness.
    The real irony is that guy who caused the accident works for an insurance company and was driving
    a company car.

    Oh and later I found out he said "I didn't see him". Bloody typical.

    Examining my bike, the fork is *rather* bent, the wheel is moderately tacoed. Bugger. I walk back
    to work carrying my bike. Eventually my wife comes and picks me up and I go home to drown my
    sorrows in cold theobromine rich substances.

    I've heard back from the (third-party) insurance adjustor. Between my account and the witnesses,
    they concede that I was entirely in the right. I just got back my estimate from the shop. The bike
    is toast (fork, front wheel, stem, handlebar, frame bent (Al)). The insurance company is
    compensating me plus a bit, so it's time to get a new bike.

    My old bike was a Giant OCR2, which served me reasonably well. I have to admit I was planning on
    putting more than 12,000 miles on it. But such will not be the case. My main points of
    dissatisfaction with it were the short chainstays (preventing me using panniers), and the lack of
    room for tires and room for fenders.

    I'm looking at the Fuji Touring or possibly some cross bikes. Time to hit the bike shops.

  16. Marlene Blanshay said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Dane Jackson <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I'm looking at the Fuji Touring or possibly some cross bikes. Time to hit the bike shops.

    Quoted message said:

    That sucks! Good luck getting a new bike. I have a Kona cross bike, a great commuter and bad
    weather/bad road bike.

    Thanks. I've settled on the Surly Crosscheck, and I'm having the fellows at Recycled Cycles build it
    up for me. I'm currently planning on doing a 48x36, 11x28 gearing setup with bar-end shifters. I'm
    thinking I'd like to run the derailleur housing under the tape up to the stem, so I can have all
    hidden cables.

    Unfortunately this was my only decent bike. 🙁 So I'm stuck driving to work. I freshly realize each
    day how much I loathe commuting by car.

    I have another bike I use for grocery shopping, but I'm having trouble keeping the seatpost up. I
    tried shimming which is not working. I need to take it a bikeshop and have them help me with the
    (crappy) seat binder bolt setup.

    Quoted message said:

    Of course, no need to say how lucky you were being able to get up and walk away. But if your
    back starts giving you trouble, get it checked out. I had an accident last year, landed right on
    my lower back- it took weeks for it to stop killing me although I didn't break anything. So take
    it easy!

    Oh, I'm *very* happy about that. Last year I had a nasty (self-induced) crash that bunged up my
    lower back fairly good. Basically right between the last two vertabrae. That was fairly rotten for
    about 3 weeks.

    --
    Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g "I'm not stupid, I'm not expendable, and
    I'M NOT GOING!"
    - Kerr Avon

  17. Claire Petersky said:

    "Dane Jackson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    So I'm heading home after work along Eastgate way

    Quoted message said:

    I know for you Eastgate Way is the most direct route. However, for the PM commute, you might want
    to consider using SE 38th for descending the hill to the start of the I-90 trail, because there
    are no possible turning movements into you. In general, the Eastgate Way accident statistics are
    not pretty.

    Yes, now that you mention it, I think that might be wiser. The great majority of my questionable
    incidents with motorists occur on Eastgate way. And it's only like 2 miles of my commute. I go the
    other way when I stop at the library on the way home. I'm not particularly fond of going through the
    tunnel or crossing at 150th, but I think the tunnel is marginally better.

    Quoted message said:

    you can see some of Jim's commute here:

    Nifty. I don't think I've seen that one before.

    Quoted message said:

    I've said that I want my obituary to read that I and my bike were wearing all possible items for
    visibility: the headlight, the multiple blinkies, the foam hat festooned with reflective stickers,
    the day-glo yellow jacket and orange reflective vest. I'm glad I didn't read *your* obituary.

    Indeed. Hmm, maybe it's time to start adding some of this to my bike:

    2fastcpu.compage2.html

    Quoted message said:

    So if all of this happened last Friday, then I can especially see how this sort of thing could
    have happened.

    It happened Monday, Dec. 1st. No, last Friday I was one of the condemned souls. Of course, I was in
    no real rush to get home, so I didn't really notice if traffic was bad or not. (Any more than it
    always is on a Friday afternoon).

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The insurance company is compensating me plus a bit, so it's time to get a new bike.

    Quoted message said:

    At least there's some compensation!

    True, true. So far the insurance company has been very upfront. They're supposedly cutting me a
    check this week for my bike and what-not that got trashed (Bike + Fender + Helmet).

    Quoted message said:

    Man, I'm glad you weren't hurt more seriously. You take care, now, you hear?

    Thanks, I'm planning on taking your advice about going west on the other side of I-90. It's a touch
    less convenient, but it should cut down on intersections. Not nearly as fast a descent though. 🙂

    --
    Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g "If hackers ran the world, there'd be no
    war... lots of accidents, maybe."

  18. A few years ago a friend had a similar "accident." Short story, a couple of letters from a cycling
    lawyer and it was worth $15k, plus $5k medical, a new bike and cloths. This event of yours sounds
    easily like 15 or 20 grand for general pain and suffering, and so you won't sue. Plus a new bike and
    replacement cycling or other clothes, helmet, etc., that were damaged in the event.

    I'd be surprised if the insurance company does not make you a similar offer right away.

    Dane Jackson said:

    So not too long ago I was ranting about *potential* accidents. This week I get to report my first
    actual accident. whee.

    So I'm heading home after work along Eastgate way (yes the same place one of the previously
    mentioned incidents took place). I'm moving at a decent pace, but I'm in no rush. I'm just
    enjoying a nice ride home after a moderately long day of developing my cathode ray tube tan.

    It's been raining today off and on, but it's clear out now. The sun set about an hour ago, but
    traffic is unusually light. I'm all kitted out with a 16 watt headlight, dual rear blinkies, nice
    hi-viz jacket, etc. So I'm quite possibly the most visible thing on the street. I've just passed
    the street right before Bank of America and am about to pass their entrance. I notice someone
    stopped in the median waiting to turn into the bank, he doesn't seem to be moving. I look at the
    entrance on my right, someone is there, but I can see them looking at me, and they seem to be
    stopped.

    I'm about 10 yards from the entrance when the person to my left, who was stopped in the median
    starts turning very quickly into the entrance. I grab my brakes and try to turn left behind him.
    But there is not nearly enough room left for this. I basically have time to scream "What are you
    doing you stupid" *THUD*.

    I slam into his front quarter panel, coming off my bike onto his hood. My hip impacts the side of
    his car, I end up taking most of the impact on my back as I slam into his windshield. I don't have
    quite enough momentum to go over his hood. So I end up rolling off, back onto the side my bike is
    lying. I get up fairly quickly and assess the damage to myself. I don't seem to have broken
    anything and seem to be mostly intact.

    The fellow getting out of his car looks to be middle aged. He basically said a lot of "Are you
    all right", "I'm sorry", etc. We ended up pulling ourselves into the parking lot and gathering
    each other's information. A kind soul gave me her name and phone number if I needed a witness.
    The real irony is that guy who caused the accident works for an insurance company and was driving
    a company car.

    Oh and later I found out he said "I didn't see him". Bloody typical.

    Examining my bike, the fork is *rather* bent, the wheel is moderately tacoed. Bugger. I walk back
    to work carrying my bike. Eventually my wife comes and picks me up and I go home to drown my
    sorrows in cold theobromine rich substances.

    I've heard back from the (third-party) insurance adjustor. Between my account and the witnesses,
    they concede that I was entirely in the right. I just got back my estimate from the shop. The bike
    is toast (fork, front wheel, stem, handlebar, frame bent (Al)). The insurance company is
    compensating me plus a bit, so it's time to get a new bike.

    My old bike was a Giant OCR2, which served me reasonably well. I have to admit I was planning on
    putting more than 12,000 miles on it. But such will not be the case. My main points of
    dissatisfaction with it were the short chainstays (preventing me using panniers), and the lack of
    room for tires and room for fenders.

    I'm looking at the Fuji Touring or possibly some cross bikes. Time to hit the bike shops.

    --
    Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g "No doubt Jack the Ripper excused
    himself on the grounds that it was human nature." -A. A. Milne

    --

    Tp

    -------- __o
    ----- -\<. ------ __o
    --- ( ) / ( ) ---- -\<.
    ----------------- ( ) / ( )
    ---------------------------------------------

    Freedom is not free; Free men are not equal; Equal men are not free.

  19. Dane Jackson said:

    I have another bike I use for grocery shopping, but I'm having trouble keeping the seatpost up. I
    tried shimming which is not working. I need to take it a bikeshop and have them help me with the
    (crappy) seat binder bolt setup.

    Huzzah! I had them take a look at it, and they determined what was wrong.

    a) The binder bolt was [censored] - I knew that.
    b) The seatpost was too small - *grrr* - I need a better caliper (or more skill at reading the
    ones I have)

    But I was able to ride to work today. Which made me much happier. The bike is a Velosolex 10 speed,
    52x40 / 13-25, with downtube shifters and suicide levers. I threw a Selle Italia Nitrox saddle on
    it, some cheap clipless pedals, my lights and a cyclocomputer. Granted it's somewhat of a piece of
    junk, but it beats driving.

    While I was out ordering my bike, we found a nice little used Bianchi road bike for my wife.
    48/38/28 - 12-28 - 7 speed indexed shifters. I had them widen the rear triangle, and I chucked an 8
    speed wheel with an 11/28 cassette on it. I had some 8 speed bar-end shifters in my bike stuff, so
    she inherited them. Just a few more things to do before it's perfect.

    Heh, of course now I'm thinking I should take the wheel and shifters I took off her bike and put
    them on my errand bike... I think I'm going to wait until I get my new bike for that. I'm not going
    to put my only wheels out of commision if I can help it.

    Oh! And I took a couple pics of the damaged bike. No real visible damage in the pics except the
    fork really.

    members.arstechnica.combike wreck1.jpg members.arstechnica.combike
    wreck2.jpg

    --
    Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g We should be glad we're living in the
    time that we are. If any of us had been born into a more enlightened age, I'm sure we would have
    immediately been taken out and shot. - Strange de Jim

  20. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Dane Jackson said:
    Dane Jackson said:

    I have another bike I use for grocery shopping, but I'm having trouble keeping the seatpost up. I
    tried shimming which is not working. I need to take it a bikeshop and have them help me with the
    (crappy) seat binder bolt setup.

    Huzzah! I had them take a look at it, and they determined what was wrong.

    a) The binder bolt was [censored] - I knew that.
    b) The seatpost was too small - *grrr* - I need a better caliper (or more skill at reading the
    ones I have)

    Boy, do I ever know *that* story. The thinner the shim you need, the more "helpful" they become in
    advising us to do the ugly beer can thing, and turning away our money.

    I think steel seatposts are slipperier (and thereby more apt to descend with each & every bump) than
    aluminum ones.

    cheers, Tom

    --
    -- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
    [point] bc [point] ca

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