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I despair

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UK and Europe
Published
16 December 2004
Last activity
17 December 2004
Original author
Zog The Undeniable
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10
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  1. Some silly moo at work has written to the staff magazine complaining
    that they used a photo of cyclists not wearing plastic hats. She says
    they should have a policy of only showing h*lmeted cyclists because this
    is the only way we'll ever learn.

    I'm trying to decide whether to send a reply pointing out that (a) it is
    currently Not Required By Law to wear one; (b) in countries where they
    have been made compulsory, cycling rates have fallen and deaths/serious
    injuries per cyclist have risen [1] and (c) they aren't designed to
    provide more than minimal protection, certainly not in accidents
    involving motor vehicles.

    But she's almost certainly a non-cyclist who thinks they must do some
    good, because it's so obvious, isn't it?

    [1] the injury stats for US states where motorcycle helmet laws have
    been repealed are an interesting aside, if not strictly relevant; see
    http://www.forbes.com/fyi/1999/0503/041.html.

  2. Zog The Undeniable said:

    Some silly moo at work has written to the staff magazine complaining
    that they used a photo of cyclists not wearing plastic hats. She says
    they should have a policy of only showing h*lmeted cyclists because this
    is the only way we'll ever learn.

    I'm trying to decide whether to send a reply pointing out that (a) it is
    currently Not Required By Law to wear one; (b) in countries where they
    have been made compulsory, cycling rates have fallen and deaths/serious
    injuries per cyclist have risen [1] and (c) they aren't designed to
    provide more than minimal protection, certainly not in accidents
    involving motor vehicles.

    But she's almost certainly a non-cyclist who thinks they must do some
    good, because it's so obvious, isn't it?

    [1] the injury stats for US states where motorcycle helmet laws have
    been repealed are an interesting aside, if not strictly relevant; see
    http://www.forbes.com/fyi/1999/0503/041.html.

    I hope you do reply and I wish luck. More luck than I had a few years
    ago in similar circumstances when a Trade Union newspaper published a
    similar letter. I wrote back to argue the contrary. Within a few issues
    I was being accused by all and sundry of just about every social,
    intellectual and moral crime you can think of and a few more besides. It
    might have been more forgivable to suggest randomly strangling babies.

    --
    Joe * If I cannot be free I'll be cheap

  3. Zog The Undeniable said:

    Some silly moo at work has written to the staff magazine complaining
    that they used a photo of cyclists not wearing plastic hats. She says
    they should have a policy of only showing h*lmeted cyclists because this
    is the only way we'll ever learn.

    I'm trying to decide whether to send a reply pointing out that (a) it is
    currently Not Required By Law to wear one; (b) in countries where they
    have been made compulsory, cycling rates have fallen and deaths/serious
    injuries per cyclist have risen [1] and (c) they aren't designed to
    provide more than minimal protection, certainly not in accidents
    involving motor vehicles.

    But she's almost certainly a non-cyclist who thinks they must do some
    good, because it's so obvious, isn't it?

    [1] the injury stats for US states where motorcycle helmet laws have
    been repealed are an interesting aside, if not strictly relevant; see
    http://www.forbes.com/fyi/1999/0503/041.html.

    I'd be less inclined to argue the "helmets make things worse" because it
    is counter-intuitive and most will dismiss it out of hand. I'd try the
    cycling is no more dangerous than walking for head injuries so perhaps
    staff should be wearing helmets in all company photos, not just cycling
    ones. Without challenging their long held common sense it will put it
    in perspective hopefully for many of them

    Tony

  4. JLB said:

    I was being accused by all and sundry of just about every social,
    intellectual and moral crime you can think of and a few more besides. It
    might have been more forgivable to suggest randomly strangling babies.

    What's wrong with that?

    --
    A little voice in Trevor Barton's head said that ;=0

  5. Zog The Undeniable said:

    [1] the injury stats for US states where motorcycle helmet laws have
    been repealed are an interesting aside, if not strictly relevant; see
    http://www.forbes.com/fyi/1999/0503/041.html.

    Quite an interesting article, this part seemed noteworthy:

    "Actually, it's true that bikers indirectly jack up the [insurance]
    rates of car drivers, but not for the reason you might think. Car
    drivers plow over bikers at an alarming rate. According to the Second
    International Congress on Automobile Safety, the car driver is at
    fault in more than 70% of all car/motorcycle collisions."

    --

    Call me "Bob"

    "More oneness, less categories,
    Open hearts, no strategies"

    Email address is spam trapped, to reply directly remove the beverage.

  6. Quoted message said:

    It might have been more forgivable to suggest randomly
    strangling babies.

    Go with points that you have definate statistics to point at. IMHO the
    data on pre and post compulsion head injuries isn't good enough to base an
    argument on as the pre and post compulsion levels of cycling aren't too
    accurate (correct me if I'm wrong, Guy!).

    Go with the easy to prove 'helmets designed for non-serious crashes' and
    'cycling as safe as walking'. Saying anything more is a) unnecessary and
    b) gives stupid people headaches. Remember, liddites arguments are based
    on helmets being life savers and cycling being ridicuously dangerous.
    Dispell these notions and you've won the argument without leaving them any
    room to pick holes.

  7. Zog The Undeniable said:

    I'm trying to decide whether to send a reply pointing out that (a) it is
    currently Not Required By Law to wear one; (b) in countries where they
    have been made compulsory, cycling rates have fallen and deaths/serious
    injuries per cyclist have risen [1] and (c) they aren't designed to
    provide more than minimal protection, certainly not in accidents
    involving motor vehicles.

    But she's almost certainly a non-cyclist who thinks they must do some
    good, because it's so obvious, isn't it?

    Make sure you include a small piece of clip art of a 'cow with a
    helmet on' in your reply :-)

  8. Zog The Undeniable said:

    Some silly moo at work has written to the staff magazine complaining
    that they used a photo of cyclists not wearing plastic hats. She says
    they should have a policy of only showing h*lmeted cyclists because this
    is the only way we'll ever learn.

    I'm trying to decide whether to send a reply pointing out that (a) it is
    currently Not Required By Law to wear one; (b) in countries where they
    have been made compulsory, cycling rates have fallen and deaths/serious
    injuries per cyclist have risen [1] and (c) they aren't designed to
    provide more than minimal protection, certainly not in accidents
    involving motor vehicles.

    But she's almost certainly a non-cyclist who thinks they must do some
    good, because it's so obvious, isn't it?

    Don't ignore it; we can't afford to let these views go unchallenged.

    I'd go for the cycling safer than walking and healthier than driving
    comparisons followed up by pointing out that there is no known cycling
    helmet that protects against cars.

    If you have space you then might want to observe that if transport H&S
    were the objective of the staff mag then there's a lot more important
    hazards to address before helmets. Eg safe driving, speeding, mobile
    phones, bike lights etc.

  9. Trevor Barton said:
    JLB said:

    I was being accused by all and sundry of just about every social,
    intellectual and moral crime you can think of and a few more besides. It
    might have been more forgivable to suggest randomly strangling babies.

    What's wrong with that?

    Causes landfill sites to become extra smelly. Local residents don't
    like it.

    --
    Amazon: "If you are interested in 'Asimov's I-Robot',
    you may also be interested in 'Garfield - The Movie'.
    ... erm, how do they figure that one out?

  10. Zog The Undeniable said:

    I'm trying to decide whether to send a reply pointing out that (a) it is
    currently Not Required By Law to wear one; (b) in countries where they
    have been made compulsory, cycling rates have fallen and deaths/serious
    injuries per cyclist have risen [1] and (c) they aren't designed to
    provide more than minimal protection, certainly not in accidents
    involving motor vehicles.

    Do it. I know it's a bore, and you end up being seen as just as much
    of a monomaniac as the Liddites, but unless we get the message out the
    conspiracy of ignorance masquerading as common sense will continue, to
    all our detriment.

    Put in something positive like "if the management really want to do
    something for cyclist safety, they should fund cycle training for
    staff"

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

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