Hypocrites: the UCI

MagillaGorilla said:

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/7201.0.html

What a joke: Cofidis gets chosen, but Phonak doesn't. Yet both Hamilton
and Perez weren't even found guilty yet.

The UCI is destroying the sport with its prejudicial actions.

Magilla

I was under the impression that the Spanish federation had quickly made a guilty determination on Perez. Is that decision still pending?

Hamilton's hearing is January.

Seems best if they stayed a continued the team decisions till Hamilton (and Perez's hearing if still pending).

I agree with you 100%, Mr. Magilla. I'm still [censored] about Virenque not
getting suspended for 2 yrs. He was a much more flagrant violator than
Millar.

"meb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

MagillaGorilla said:

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/7201.0.html

What a joke: Cofidis gets chosen, but Phonak doesn't. Yet both
Hamilton
and Perez weren't even found guilty yet.

The UCI is destroying the sport with its prejudicial actions.

Magilla

I was under the impression that the Spanish federation had quickly made
a guilty determination on Perez. Is that decision still pending?

Hamilton's hearing is January.

Seems best if they stayed a continued the team decisions till Hamilton
(and Perez's hearing if still pending).

--
meb

meb said:

MagillaGorilla said:

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/7201.0.html

What a joke: Cofidis gets chosen, but Phonak doesn't. Yet both
Hamilton
and Perez weren't even found guilty yet.

The UCI is destroying the sport with its prejudicial actions.

Magilla

I was under the impression that the Spanish federation had quickly made
a guilty determination on Perez. Is that decision still pending?

Hamilton's hearing is January.

Seems best if they stayed a continued the team decisions till Hamilton
(and Perez's hearing if still pending).

The federations do not make the guilty determination on the riders -
that is done by WADA or the UCI. Once WADA or the UCI determines guilt
or innocence, it is up to the national federations to enforce it.

If a rider wants to appeal a decision from WADA/USADA or the UCI, they
can appeal to CAS.

Magilla

quote='MagillaGorilla'meb said:

MagillaGorilla said:

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/7201.0.html

What a joke: Cofidis gets chosen, but Phonak doesn't. Yet both
Hamilton
and Perez weren't even found guilty yet.

The UCI is destroying the sport with its prejudicial actions.

Magilla

I was under the impression that the Spanish federation had quickly made
a guilty determination on Perez. Is that decision still pending?

Hamilton's hearing is January.

Seems best if they stayed a continued the team decisions till Hamilton
(and Perez's hearing if still pending).

The federations do not make the guilty determination on the riders -
that is done by WADA or the UCI. Once WADA or the UCI determines guilt
or innocence, it is up to the national federations to enforce it.

If a rider wants to appeal a decision from WADA/USADA or the UCI, they
can appeal to CAS.

Magilla[/QUOTE]

UCI turned the Perez and Hamilton cases over to the national entities-in Hamilton's case USADA. Not sure if jurisdiction was turned over in their entirety or if USADA is merely acting as a special master on behalf of UCI for a guilt determination phase only or if USADA has been delegated sanctioning jurisdiction. USADA would certainly have better molecular biology expertise than UCI on evaluating the test data, accuracy, validity of the Vuelta test and evidence Tyler's team might present.

meb said:

MagillaGorilla said:

meb said:

MagillaGorilla Wrote:

>http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/7201.0.html
>
>What a joke: Cofidis gets chosen, but Phonak doesn't. Yet both
>Hamilton
>and Perez weren't even found guilty yet.
>
>The UCI is destroying the sport with its prejudicial actions.
>
>Magilla

I was under the impression that the Spanish federation had quickly

made

Quoted message said:

a guilty determination on Perez. Is that decision still pending?

Hamilton's hearing is January.

Seems best if they stayed a continued the team decisions till

Hamilton

Quoted message said:

(and Perez's hearing if still pending).

The federations do not make the guilty determination on the riders -
that is done by WADA or the UCI. Once WADA or the UCI determines
guilt
or innocence, it is up to the national federations to enforce it.

If a rider wants to appeal a decision from WADA/USADA or the UCI, they
can appeal to CAS.

Magilla

UCI turned the Perez and Hamilton cases over to the national
entities-in Hamilton's case USADA. Not sure if jurisdiction was turned
over in their entirety or if USADA is merely acting as a special master
on behalf of UCI for a guilt determination phase only or if USADA has
been delegated sanctioning jurisdiction. USADA would certainly have
better molecular biology expertise than UCI on evaluating the test
data, accuracy, validity of the Vuelta test and evidence Tyler's team
might present.

Don't kid yourself, USADA isn't going to tell WADA or the UCI the blood
transfusion test doesn't work. That's going to fall squarely upon
Tyler's experts.

Magilla

quote='MagillaGorilla'meb said:

MagillaGorilla said:

meb said:

MagillaGorilla Wrote:

>http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/7201.0.html
>
>What a joke: Cofidis gets chosen, but Phonak doesn't. Yet both
>Hamilton
>and Perez weren't even found guilty yet.
>
>The UCI is destroying the sport with its prejudicial actions.
>
>Magilla

I was under the impression that the Spanish federation had quickly

made

Quoted message said:

a guilty determination on Perez. Is that decision still pending?

Hamilton's hearing is January.

Seems best if they stayed a continued the team decisions till

Hamilton

Quoted message said:

(and Perez's hearing if still pending).

The federations do not make the guilty determination on the riders -
that is done by WADA or the UCI. Once WADA or the UCI determines
guilt
or innocence, it is up to the national federations to enforce it.

If a rider wants to appeal a decision from WADA/USADA or the UCI, they
can appeal to CAS.

Magilla

UCI turned the Perez and Hamilton cases over to the national
entities-in Hamilton's case USADA. Not sure if jurisdiction was turned
over in their entirety or if USADA is merely acting as a special master
on behalf of UCI for a guilt determination phase only or if USADA has
been delegated sanctioning jurisdiction. USADA would certainly have
better molecular biology expertise than UCI on evaluating the test
data, accuracy, validity of the Vuelta test and evidence Tyler's team
might present.

Don't kid yourself, USADA isn't going to tell WADA or the UCI the blood
transfusion test doesn't work. That's going to fall squarely upon
Tyler's experts.

Magilla[/QUOTE]
Tyler's experts will certainly do the ground work.
USADA isn't going to bow to pressure from an obscure international sporting federation with light following in the US like UCI.

That is an interesting inference that WADA might have the political might to preemptively quash any unflattering decision by USADA.

meb said:

MagillaGorilla Wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Don't kid yourself, USADA isn't going to tell WADA or the UCI the
blood
transfusion test doesn't work. That's going to fall squarely upon
Tyler's experts.

Magilla

Tyler's experts will certainly do the ground work.
USADA isn't going to bow to pressure from an obscure international
sporting federation with light following in the US like UCI.

That is an interesting inference that WADA might have the political
might to preemptively quash any unflattering decision by USADA.

The blood transfusion is a WADA-approved test - the UCI has little to do
with it at this point. USADA helped fund the blood tranfusion study, so
why would they challenge it now?

USADA WILL find Tyler guilty in the next week or so, if they haven't
already. It will be up to the hearing before the Court of Arbitration
for Sport to determine which camp is right.

Magilla

quote='MagillaGorilla'meb said:

MagillaGorilla Wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Don't kid yourself, USADA isn't going to tell WADA or the UCI the
blood
transfusion test doesn't work. That's going to fall squarely upon
Tyler's experts.

Magilla

Tyler's experts will certainly do the ground work.
USADA isn't going to bow to pressure from an obscure international
sporting federation with light following in the US like UCI.

That is an interesting inference that WADA might have the political
might to preemptively quash any unflattering decision by USADA.

The blood transfusion is a WADA-approved test - the UCI has little to do
with it at this point. USADA helped fund the blood tranfusion study, so
why would they challenge it now?

USADA WILL find Tyler guilty in the next week or so, if they haven't
already. It will be up to the hearing before the Court of Arbitration
for Sport to determine which camp is right.

Magilla[/QUOTE]

Tyler's hearing is scheduled for January.

meb said:

MagillaGorilla said:

meb said:

MagillaGorilla Wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

>Don't kid yourself, USADA isn't going to tell WADA or the UCI the
>blood
>transfusion test doesn't work. That's going to fall squarely upon
>Tyler's experts.
>
>Magilla

Tyler's experts will certainly do the ground work.
USADA isn't going to bow to pressure from an obscure international
sporting federation with light following in the US like UCI.

That is an interesting inference that WADA might have the political
might to preemptively quash any unflattering decision by USADA.

The blood transfusion is a WADA-approved test - the UCI has little to
do
with it at this point. USADA helped fund the blood tranfusion study,
so
why would they challenge it now?

USADA WILL find Tyler guilty in the next week or so, if they haven't
already. It will be up to the hearing before the Court of Arbitration
for Sport to determine which camp is right.

Magilla

Tyler's hearing is scheduled for January.

No, it's not scheduled for Januaury. You can't schedule a CAS hearing
before USADA states their decision in the matter. USADA should issue
that determination any day now.

Magilla

Quoted message said:

meb said:

UCI turned the Perez and Hamilton cases over to the national entities-in Hamilton's case USADA. Not sure if jurisdiction was turned over in their entirety or if USADA is merely acting as a special master on behalf of UCI for a guilt determination phase only or if USADA has been delegated sanctioning jurisdiction. USADA would certainly have better molecular biology expertise than UCI on evaluating the test data, accuracy, validity of the Vuelta test and evidence Tyler's team might present.

Jurisdiction turned over to USADA, hearings scheduled:
velonews.com7085.0.htmlOpen ↗

quote='MagillaGorilla'meb said:

MagillaGorilla said:

meb said:

MagillaGorilla Wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

>Don't kid yourself, USADA isn't going to tell WADA or the UCI the
>blood
>transfusion test doesn't work. That's going to fall squarely upon
>Tyler's experts.
>
>Magilla

Tyler's experts will certainly do the ground work.
USADA isn't going to bow to pressure from an obscure international
sporting federation with light following in the US like UCI.

That is an interesting inference that WADA might have the political
might to preemptively quash any unflattering decision by USADA.

The blood transfusion is a WADA-approved test - the UCI has little to
do
with it at this point. USADA helped fund the blood tranfusion study,
so
why would they challenge it now?

USADA WILL find Tyler guilty in the next week or so, if they haven't
already. It will be up to the hearing before the Court of Arbitration
for Sport to determine which camp is right.

Magilla

Tyler's hearing is scheduled for January.

No, it's not scheduled for Januaury. You can't schedule a CAS hearing
before USADA states their decision in the matter. USADA should issue
that determination any day now.

Magilla

Quoted message said:

[/quote]
Hamilton is under the impression it is scheduled for January:

Hamilton seems to think the USADA hearing is taking place in January:

sports.yahoo.comnewsOpen ↗

meb said:

MagillaGorilla said:

meb said:

MagillaGorilla Wrote:

>meb wrote:
>
>
>
>>MagillaGorilla Wrote:
>>
>
><snip>
>
>>>Don't kid yourself, USADA isn't going to tell WADA or the UCI the
>>>blood
>>>transfusion test doesn't work. That's going to fall squarely upon
>>>Tyler's experts.
>>>
>>>Magilla
>>
>>Tyler's experts will certainly do the ground work.
>>USADA isn't going to bow to pressure from an obscure international
>>sporting federation with light following in the US like UCI.
>>
>>That is an interesting inference that WADA might have the political
>>might to preemptively quash any unflattering decision by USADA.
>>
>>
>
>The blood transfusion is a WADA-approved test - the UCI has little

to

Quoted message said:

>do
>with it at this point. USADA helped fund the blood tranfusion

study,

Quoted message said:

>so
>why would they challenge it now?
>
>USADA WILL find Tyler guilty in the next week or so, if they haven't
>already. It will be up to the hearing before the Court of

Arbitration

Quoted message said:

>for Sport to determine which camp is right.
>
>
>Magilla

Tyler's hearing is scheduled for January.

No, it's not scheduled for Januaury. You can't schedule a CAS hearing
before USADA states their decision in the matter. USADA should issue
that determination any day now.

Magilla

Hamilton is under the impression it is scheduled for January:

Hamilton seems to think the USADA hearing is taking place in January:

http://sports.yahoo.com/oly/news?slug=ap-hamilton-doping&prov=ap&type=lgns

Tyler seems to have only been guessing at the month when it WOULD take
place.

The first thing that has to happen is USADA will post a press release on
their website about Hamilton, and Hamilton will have to accept or
decline their sanction.

Since that didn't happen yet, they couldn't have scheduled a CAS hearing.

Magilla

On 11/15/2004 12:43 AM, in article [email hidden],

MagillaGorilla said:

meb said:

MagillaGorilla said:

meb wrote:

> MagillaGorilla Wrote:
>
>
>> meb wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> MagillaGorilla Wrote:
>>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>> Don't kid yourself, USADA isn't going to tell WADA or the UCI the
>>>> blood
>>>> transfusion test doesn't work. That's going to fall squarely upon
>>>> Tyler's experts.
>>>>
>>>> Magilla
>>>
>>> Tyler's experts will certainly do the ground work.
>>> USADA isn't going to bow to pressure from an obscure international
>>> sporting federation with light following in the US like UCI.
>>>
>>> That is an interesting inference that WADA might have the political
>>> might to preemptively quash any unflattering decision by USADA.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The blood transfusion is a WADA-approved test - the UCI has little

to

>> do
>> with it at this point. USADA helped fund the blood tranfusion

study,

>> so
>> why would they challenge it now?
>>
>> USADA WILL find Tyler guilty in the next week or so, if they haven't
>> already. It will be up to the hearing before the Court of

Arbitration

>> for Sport to determine which camp is right.
>>
>>
>> Magilla
>
>
> Tyler's hearing is scheduled for January.
>

No, it's not scheduled for Januaury. You can't schedule a CAS hearing
before USADA states their decision in the matter. USADA should issue
that determination any day now.

Magilla

Hamilton is under the impression it is scheduled for January:

Hamilton seems to think the USADA hearing is taking place in January:

http://sports.yahoo.com/oly/news?slug=ap-hamilton-doping&prov=ap&type=lgns

Tyler seems to have only been guessing at the month when it WOULD take
place.

The first thing that has to happen is USADA will post a press release on
their website about Hamilton, and Hamilton will have to accept or
decline their sanction.

Since that didn't happen yet, they couldn't have scheduled a CAS hearing.

He gets a USADA hearing first, which is currently scheduled for January, in
Colorado.

The USADA doesn't just hand out sanctions ... they give hearings, too,
before issuing their decisions.

--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [foreword] slash

On 11/15/2004 12:43 AM, in article [email hidden],

MagillaGorilla said:

meb said:

MagillaGorilla said:

meb wrote:

> MagillaGorilla Wrote:
>
>
>> meb wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> MagillaGorilla Wrote:
>>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>> Don't kid yourself, USADA isn't going to tell WADA or the UCI the
>>>> blood
>>>> transfusion test doesn't work. That's going to fall squarely upon
>>>> Tyler's experts.
>>>>
>>>> Magilla
>>>
>>> Tyler's experts will certainly do the ground work.
>>> USADA isn't going to bow to pressure from an obscure international
>>> sporting federation with light following in the US like UCI.
>>>
>>> That is an interesting inference that WADA might have the political
>>> might to preemptively quash any unflattering decision by USADA.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The blood transfusion is a WADA-approved test - the UCI has little

to

>> do
>> with it at this point. USADA helped fund the blood tranfusion

study,

>> so
>> why would they challenge it now?
>>
>> USADA WILL find Tyler guilty in the next week or so, if they haven't
>> already. It will be up to the hearing before the Court of

Arbitration

>> for Sport to determine which camp is right.
>>
>>
>> Magilla
>
>
> Tyler's hearing is scheduled for January.
>

No, it's not scheduled for Januaury. You can't schedule a CAS hearing
before USADA states their decision in the matter. USADA should issue
that determination any day now.

Magilla

Hamilton is under the impression it is scheduled for January:

Hamilton seems to think the USADA hearing is taking place in January:

http://sports.yahoo.com/oly/news?slug=ap-hamilton-doping&prov=ap&type=lgns

Tyler seems to have only been guessing at the month when it WOULD take
place.

The first thing that has to happen is USADA will post a press release on
their website about Hamilton, and Hamilton will have to accept or
decline their sanction.

Since that didn't happen yet, they couldn't have scheduled a CAS hearing.

I think you need to review the protocols ...

<http://www.usantidoping.org/what/management/resultsmanagementdiagram081304.
pdf>

Note, about 2/3 of the way down where he has a USADA hearing with the
American Arbitration Association in charge ... Then he can appeal the
results of his hearing to the CAS.

--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [foreword] slash

MagillaGorilla <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/7201.0.html

What a joke: Cofidis gets chosen, but Phonak doesn't. Yet both Hamilton
and Perez weren't even found guilty yet.

The UCI is destroying the sport with its prejudicial actions.

Magilla

The only hypocrites here are the riders who are doping. They are
destroying the sport and they should be the last to yell when
injustice has been done to them 'cause they weren't fair themselves
against their collegues, fans and their employer.

Kenny

Steven L. Sheffield said:

On 11/15/2004 12:43 AM, in article [email hidden],

MagillaGorilla said:

meb said:

MagillaGorilla Wrote:

>meb wrote:
>
>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>><snip>
>>>
>>>>>Don't kid yourself, USADA isn't going to tell WADA or the UCI the
>>>>>blood
>>>>>transfusion test doesn't work. That's going to fall squarely upon
>>>>>Tyler's experts.
>>>>>
>>>>>Magilla
>>>>
>>>>Tyler's experts will certainly do the ground work.
>>>>USADA isn't going to bow to pressure from an obscure international
>>>>sporting federation with light following in the US like UCI.
>>>>
>>>>That is an interesting inference that WADA might have the political
>>>>might to preemptively quash any unflattering decision by USADA.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>The blood transfusion is a WADA-approved test - the UCI has little
>
>to
>
>
>>>do
>>>with it at this point. USADA helped fund the blood tranfusion
>
>study,
>
>
>>>so
>>>why would they challenge it now?
>>>
>>>USADA WILL find Tyler guilty in the next week or so, if they haven't
>>>already. It will be up to the hearing before the Court of
>
>Arbitration
>
>
>>>for Sport to determine which camp is right.
>>>
>>>
>>>Magilla
>>

He gets a USADA hearing first, which is currently scheduled for January, in
Colorado.

The USADA doesn't just hand out sanctions ... they give hearings, too,
before issuing their decisions.

Hey Dumbass,

USADA DOES just hand out sanctions based on the test results (called
strict liability). There is absolutely NO HEARING involved with a USADA
suspension - you either accept it or decline it. If you decline it, the
case goes to an arbitration hearing, which will likely take place in
Denver, Colorado sometime in early 2005.

Magilla

Steven L. Sheffield said:

On 11/15/2004 12:43 AM, in article [email hidden],

MagillaGorilla said:

meb said:

MagillaGorilla Wrote:

>meb wrote:
>
>
>
>>MagillaGorilla Wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>meb wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>MagillaGorilla Wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>>>Don't kid yourself, USADA isn't going to tell WADA or the UCI the
>>>>>blood
>>>>>transfusion test doesn't work. That's going to fall squarely upon
>>>>>Tyler's experts.
>>>>>
>>>>>Magilla
>>>>
>>>>Tyler's experts will certainly do the ground work.
>>>>USADA isn't going to bow to pressure from an obscure international
>>>>sporting federation with light following in the US like UCI.
>>>>
>>>>That is an interesting inference that WADA might have the political
>>>>might to preemptively quash any unflattering decision by USADA.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>The blood transfusion is a WADA-approved test - the UCI has little
>
>to
>
>
>>>do
>>>with it at this point. USADA helped fund the blood tranfusion
>
>study,
>
>
>>>so
>>>why would they challenge it now?
>>>
>>>USADA WILL find Tyler guilty in the next week or so, if they haven't
>>>already. It will be up to the hearing before the Court of
>
>Arbitration
>
>
>>>for Sport to determine which camp is right.
>>>
>>>
>>>Magilla
>>
>>
>>Tyler's hearing is scheduled for January.
>>
>
>No, it's not scheduled for Januaury. You can't schedule a CAS hearing
>before USADA states their decision in the matter. USADA should issue
>that determination any day now.
>
>Magilla
>

Hamilton is under the impression it is scheduled for January:

Hamilton seems to think the USADA hearing is taking place in January:

http://sports.yahoo.com/oly/news?slug=ap-hamilton-doping&prov=ap&type=lgns

Tyler seems to have only been guessing at the month when it WOULD take
place.

The first thing that has to happen is USADA will post a press release on
their website about Hamilton, and Hamilton will have to accept or
decline their sanction.

Since that didn't happen yet, they couldn't have scheduled a CAS hearing.

I think you need to review the protocols ...

<http://www.usantidoping.org/what/management/resultsmanagementdiagram081304.
pdf>

Note, about 2/3 of the way down where he has a USADA hearing with the
American Arbitration Association in charge ... Then he can appeal the
results of his hearing to the CAS.

Hey Dumbass,

The USADA hearing you are referring to with the AAA is also known as the
Court of Arbitration for Sport (they are the same thing).

USADA has no hearing. Once you test positive they suspend you
immediately with no hearing whatsoever. All an athlete can do is accpet
or decline the suspension.

Magilla

Kenny said:

MagillaGorilla <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/7201.0.html

What a joke: Cofidis gets chosen, but Phonak doesn't. Yet both Hamilton
and Perez weren't even found guilty yet.

The UCI is destroying the sport with its prejudicial actions.

Magilla

The only hypocrites here are the riders who are doping. They are
destroying the sport and they should be the last to yell when
injustice has been done to them 'cause they weren't fair themselves
against their collegues, fans and their employer.

Kenny

Wrong. Innocent riders do have a right to complain.

Thanks,

Magilla

MagillaGorilla <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Kenny said:

MagillaGorilla <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/7201.0.html

What a joke: Cofidis gets chosen, but Phonak doesn't. Yet both Hamilton
and Perez weren't even found guilty yet.

The UCI is destroying the sport with its prejudicial actions.

Magilla

The only hypocrites here are the riders who are doping. They are
destroying the sport and they should be the last to yell when
injustice has been done to them 'cause they weren't fair themselves
against their collegues, fans and their employer.

Kenny

Wrong. Innocent riders do have a right to complain.

Thanks,

Magilla

Can you be more naive?

Kenny