Hydration - Tour tip

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:04:48 -0400, Badger_South <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

When did any of you get into your training (phase, level, physical
level) where it naturally started you carrying and drinking a lot of
water/fluids?

Any ride longer than an hour in summertime. Virginia summers are not
the sort that you want to ride around without any water....

-Luigi

Quoted message said:

I suspect in another 6 months I'll be up to the 2-3 hour
level of riding, and will start using my camelback.

-Badger

Badger_South wrote:
:: As anyone knows who has worked a day job in their youth as a laborer,
:: either on a landscaping crew, or doing farm work where there's just
:: continuous activity, with a few planned breaks, you can lose a -lot-
:: of fluid.
::
:: On the landscaping crew, we were allowed to go shirtless, but had to
:: wear heavy long pants,( typically denim, and boots - somewhat of a
:: safety issue), and we were literally soaked the entire day. Most guys
:: brought a 2 gallon jug with a push-button spigot and emptied that and
:: more over a 9.5 hour day. You get thirsty right away and drink all
:: day.
::
:: But on a bike you presumably don't want to wait.
::
:: According to the babbling on OLN, team postal is drinking 16 bottles
:: of replacement fluid. The guy said they learned that you needed to
:: start out hydrated and then on the ride needed to replace up to 150%
:: of your starting fluid level. IOW, your body systems are using the
:: fluid constantly, so to avoid a post-post lowering, they go up to
:: 150.
::
:: I don't yet get to the point of feeling thirsty at my level of riding
:: (1-2 hours), so right now, I go out hydrated, but don't drink on the
:: ride, and have a few glasses of water when I get back then a few
:: large coffees. That's probably unwise.

Why can't you take a water bottle with you? What is the point of not
drinking on a 2 hour ride in summer? I mean, what does it gain you? On a
two-hour ride I drink at least one bottle of water, whether I feel I need it
or not.

::
:: When did any of you get into your training (phase, level, physical
:: level) where it naturally started you carrying and drinking a lot of
:: water/fluids? I suspect in another 6 months I'll be up to the 2-3
:: hour level of riding, and will start using my camelback.

In 6 months? I did 5 hours of riding last Sunday. I started out hydrated,
then drank the too bottles of gatorade/Fruit 20 I had with me. Then refilled
them with ice water at a local firestation. I had a little left once I got
home.

Roger Zoul said:

:: When did any of you get into your training (phase, level, physical
:: level) where it naturally started you carrying and drinking a lot of
:: water/fluids? I suspect in another 6 months I'll be up to the 2-3
:: hour level of riding, and will start using my camelback.

In 6 months? I did 5 hours of riding last Sunday. I started out hydrated,
then drank the too bottles of gatorade/Fruit 20 I had with me. Then refilled
them with ice water at a local firestation. I had a little left once I got
home.

I'm talking average daily mileage, you young whippersnapper!

Actually you may be one of the luckyones who has good riding places
near where you live. Me, I have nothing. Short steep twisty hills, and
a left hip injury keeps my climbing down somewhat.

-B
What are you, like 40? When you're 55 I'll be kicking your ass. ;-p

"Badger_South" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

When did any of you get into your training (phase, level, physical
level) where it naturally started you carrying and drinking a lot of
water/fluids?

Dehydration isn't much of an issue until you go over the 2-3 hr mark. I don't
bother even carrying water for rides under 2 hr. Centuries (& beyond) are long
enough, particularly in hot weather, to get you into trouble if you're not
careful.

Quoted message said:

I suspect in another 6 months I'll be up to the 2-3 hour
level of riding, and will start using my camelback.

I find Camelbaks really uncomfortable on long rides, especially if they're
full of water.

Badger_South wrote:
:: On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:09:08 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:: <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::::: When did any of you get into your training (phase, level, physical
::::: level) where it naturally started you carrying and drinking a
::::: lot of water/fluids? I suspect in another 6 months I'll be up to
::::: the 2-3 hour level of riding, and will start using my camelback.
:::
::: In 6 months? I did 5 hours of riding last Sunday. I started out
::: hydrated, then drank the too bottles of gatorade/Fruit 20 I had
::: with me. Then refilled them with ice water at a local firestation.
::: I had a little left once I got home.
::
:: I'm talking average daily mileage, you young whippersnapper!

No, I'm old and stoopid!

::
:: Actually you may be one of the luckyones who has good riding places
:: near where you live. Me, I have nothing. Short steep twisty hills,
:: and a left hip injury keeps my climbing down somewhat.

That may be true....I think I have some good places to ride, though the dogs
think they have some good meat to chase down.

::
:: -B
:: What are you, like 40? When you're 55 I'll be kicking your ass. ;-p

46. You'd probably kick my ass now. I'm not very fast and and the hills
kick my ass.

But seriously, why not carry a water bottle? I don't know about you, but I
find i might end up many miles from home....might have a breakdown or
something. I guess if you're close to many food places, you can just stop
somewhere and get something. Last saturday, I was doing a 28-mile ride
before work. I got 25 minutes away from home before I realized I had left
both water bottles. Dang! I didn't want to turn around. However, the
latter part of my trip goes along a wide-laned busy road. So I just stopped
at an exxon station and got some gatoraide. However, on some of my other
rides that would not have been possible.

Quoted message said:

When did any of you get into your training (phase, level, physical
level) where it naturally started you carrying and drinking a lot of
water/fluids? I suspect in another 6 months I'll be up to the 2-3 hour
level of riding, and will start using my camelback.

I've always carried water, but the first time I tried to do 50+ miles
carrying only water, I suffered - sore, headachy and miserable for the
rest of the day. It took me awhile before I learned that you have to
eat on long rides, too.

I generally plan to drink 1 bottle per hour; more if it's hot. For
long rides, my bottles now contain home-made sports drink and I eat
~1/2 banana every 20-30 minutes. I've learned that I can ride pretty
hard for several hours if I do this, and still have energy to do other
things when I get home.

Not drinking water on a ride seems like self-flagellation to me.
Unless someone shows that dehydration can improve overall fitness,
it's just pointless suffering.

(Note, too, that one reason the pros drink so much is because it
doesn't take much dehydration to make your body less efficient. And
for racers, efficiency is everything.)

Peter Cole said:

"Badger_South" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

When did any of you get into your training (phase, level, physical
level) where it naturally started you carrying and drinking a lot of
water/fluids?

Dehydration isn't much of an issue until you go over the 2-3 hr mark. I don't
bother even carrying water for rides under 2 hr. Centuries (& beyond) are long
enough, particularly in hot weather, to get you into trouble if you're not
careful.

Quoted message said:

I suspect in another 6 months I'll be up to the 2-3 hour
level of riding, and will start using my camelback.

I find Camelbaks really uncomfortable on long rides, especially if they're
full of water.

Yeah, I got the lightest one they had. My use of 'em wouldn't be to
lug all the water for the ride in one place, but just be a way to cut
back on the whole 'getting a drink' movement. I had it down to a
pretty good art using it on short rides and practicing the
positioning, but only put just a little less than one std bike bottle
of water in it at the time. (I was dubious, also, thinking it might
make the back sweat in the summer.)

What would be nice - a camel back, but with the water positioned
elsewhere, like kidney area? And then have a quick 'slurp' tube that
you could dip in a bike bottle and slurp the contents up into your
small camelback type pack and refill it to a little under a pint. Such
a small amt might be doable, with the water 'stored' on the bike
frame.

Thx for the tips!

-B

"Badger_South" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Yeah, I got the lightest one they had. My use of 'em wouldn't be to
lug all the water for the ride in one place, but just be a way to cut
back on the whole 'getting a drink' movement. I had it down to a
pretty good art using it on short rides and practicing the
positioning, but only put just a little less than one std bike bottle
of water in it at the time. (I was dubious, also, thinking it might
make the back sweat in the summer.)

Yeah, they do, but worse is all the weight. I have 3 bottle mounts, and use
insulated Polar bottles (~24 oz.). Multiple bottles allows you to have more
than one fluid. I often stop at convenience stores during the ride, pick up a
large bottle of something (depending on mood: OJ, choc. milk, water) chug a
quart or so & fill a bottle with the leftovers to drink over the next hour on
the road (Polar will keep things cold that long). Every so often, I'll stop &
rearrange the bottles to put the empties in the far away holders. If I need
more than 3, it's usually on very long rides w/o conveniences (pretty rare),
in that case, I usually have a rack I can bungee another bottle or 2 on to,
empty bottles are no extra weight.

Badger_South <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

What would be nice - a camel back, but with the water positioned
elsewhere, like kidney area?

Like this?

http://www.camelbak.com/rec/cb_prod.cfm?catid=6&product_id=211

Badger_South said:

When did any of you get into your training (phase, level, physical
level) where it naturally started you carrying and drinking a lot of
water/fluids? I suspect in another 6 months I'll be up to the 2-3 hour
level of riding, and will start using my camelback.

I've been using a camelback for about the last 15 years. But I needed
them for commuting. You don't want to be fiddling with bottles in rush
hour traffic. On short rides of about an hour (1.5) I use 2 bottles
(actually 1.5 bottles). After that I like to carry my 100 oz camel
back. So far we've stopped at stores and picked up various stuff,
extra food, umbrella's, drinks you name it I've tied it on the camel
back. My long rides tend to be out of the way. Either farm land or
pine barren. No stores near by either way it would ruin the ride to
ride over to the busy sections just to stop at a store. I do carry an
extra bottle of water for the other riders (just in case).

--
Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry [email hidden]
http://home.comcast.net/~ncherry/ (Text only)
http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge)
http://hcs.sourceforge.net/ (HCS II)

"Peter Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:7NwJc.83157$a24.44504@attbi_s03

[...]

Quoted message said:

I find Camelbaks really uncomfortable on long rides, especially if
they're full of water.

Do they sit flush against your back or do they have some sort of frame so
there's an air gap between you and the pack per se?

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

Badger_South said:

I don't yet get to the point of feeling thirsty at my level of riding
(1-2 hours), so right now, I go out hydrated, but don't drink on the
ride, and have a few glasses of water when I get back then a few large
coffees. That's probably unwise.

When did any of you get into your training (phase, level, physical
level) where it naturally started you carrying and drinking a lot of
water/fluids? I suspect in another 6 months I'll be up to the 2-3 hour
level of riding, and will start using my camelback.

I started bringing water bottles along from the very beginning. Usually I'll
drink about one 32 oz bottle per hour on a ride. (varies with temperature and
terrain, of course)

As another poster mentioned, eating is good when you get on longer rides, which
for me is 2+ hours. I'll either bring an apple, licorice, or peanut M&Ms. The
latter I've found to keep me going, while satisfying my sweet tooth.

--
Craig Holl
Mechanical Engineer; New Berlin, WI
http://www.midwestroads.com/craigholl/bike
*remove all numbers and caps to reply*

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:04:48 -0400, Badger_South <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

When did any of you get into your training (phase, level, physical
level) where it naturally started you carrying and drinking a lot of
water/fluids? I suspect in another 6 months I'll be up to the 2-3 hour
level of riding, and will start using my camelback.

When I first started, I drank moderately; once I got a camelbak, I
drank profusely. Then, when I switched to bottles on my road bike, I
rarely drank at all. Now I've shoved the end of a camelbak tube into
a bottle and hooked the other end on my aerobars, and I drink
occasionally.

I definitely drink opportunistically -- with the nipple constantly
near my mouth (ooh, talk dirty!) I drink like a fish. Any more
effort required and my drinking drops off strongly. When
camelbakked, I never get thirsty.

Now I do carry a lot on the road bike. Hot days and tough rides do
make me drink large doses each time I stop. Easier rides on mild
days generally result in me forgetting to make the effort. Pity.
--
Rick Onanian

Peter Cole said:

"Badger_South" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

When did any of you get into your training (phase, level, physical
level) where it naturally started you carrying and drinking a lot of
water/fluids?

I start carrying water at about 30 minutes riding. YMMV, depending on
where you ride, and the weather.

Quoted message said:

Dehydration isn't much of an issue until you go over the 2-3 hr mark.

Mildly interesting, but probably not relevant. I remember reading
somewhere physical performance starts to degrade when the body loses
1% of its weight in water. IIRC, clinical dehydration hits at 5% or
more. Do you want to have fun without suffering (much)? Drink up!

Quoted message said:

I don't
bother even carrying water for rides under 2 hr. Centuries (& beyond) are long
enough, particularly in hot weather, to get you into trouble if you're not
careful.

I can sweat half a gallon in an hour. It's hard to replace that much
quickly -- easier to start early, and continue. It only takes a
couple of minutes to put ice and water in a bottle.

Pat

Email address works as is.

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 15:23:58 -0400, Badger_South <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Yeah, I got the lightest one they had. My use of 'em wouldn't be to
lug all the water for the ride in one place, but just be a way to cut
back on the whole 'getting a drink' movement. I had it down to a

Hmm...I hadn't thought of it from this direction. Maybe I'll try a
small one and refill it from my bottles.

Quoted message said:

pretty good art using it on short rides and practicing the
positioning, but only put just a little less than one std bike bottle
of water in it at the time. (I was dubious, also, thinking it might
make the back sweat in the summer.)

My big packs make the back sweat, and they also add weight to my
already overloaded hands/arms.

Quoted message said:

What would be nice - a camel back, but with the water positioned
elsewhere, like kidney area? And then have a quick 'slurp' tube that

There are hydration [censored] packs. Nashbar was selling cheap Bell ones
for $6 last time I ordered, and I bought two. They're not that
great; as a [censored] pack, it was in the way and the tube was short. I
moved it up so the band was chest level, but I needed to tighten it
so much it restricted my breathing; other than that, it was not bad,
like the above idea of a _small_ camelbak.

Quoted message said:

you could dip in a bike bottle and slurp the contents up into your
small camelback type pack and refill it to a little under a pint. Such
a small amt might be doable, with the water 'stored' on the bike
frame.

What, while riding? Chill out. Relax. You don't have to keep riding
every second you're near your bike. Stop to look at the scenery,
open your camelbak, and dump a bottle into it. Walk around and enjoy
some pretty place you've found.

I stop at the Rhode Island Veterans Cemetery every time I go by it.
It's got loads of quiet, smooth, traffic-free pavement; beautiful
monuments; and people that I thank for my freedom and prosperity. I
usually park the bike and walk around a bit; there's a big center
monument in the form of a hill with a flag on top up which I walk
and from which I view the whole place. There's a flat one next to
it, maybe 60'x60' made of marble, with names of fallen soldiers
engraved in it. Elsewhere, there's a stone tower on top of a natural
hill; I climb the steps up the hill, admire the tower, and explore
the unfettered natural field and forest behind it.

While there, I could certainly dump a bottle into my backpack.
--
Rick Onanian

DRS said:

Quoted message said:

I find Camelbaks really uncomfortable on long rides, especially if

Do they sit flush against your back or do they have some sort of frame so
there's an air gap between you and the pack per se?

My Camelbak MULE has air channels on it's human-pack interface area,
but I've stuffed it so full that they're bulging and useless.
http://www.camelbak.com/rec/features.cfm?Product_ID=201&CATID=6&FeatureID=18
--
Rick Onanian

"Patrick Lamb" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I remember reading
somewhere physical performance starts to degrade when the body loses
1% of its weight in water.

Probably at the Gatorade site.

Quoted message said:

IIRC, clinical dehydration hits at 5% or
more.

Medical defs: moderate = 10%

Quoted message said:

I can sweat half a gallon in an hour. It's hard to replace that much
quickly -- easier to start early, and continue. It only takes a
couple of minutes to put ice and water in a bottle.

That's way more than average maximum (~1 L/hr), but even at that rate it'd
take over a couple of hours to get moderately dehydrated.

I can understand why a real racer would need to drink enroute.

But I am constantly amused by the racer wanna-bes who are woggling
along at 12 mph and think they have to drink without stopping to
drink. Wobbling in the way of other riders, or of motor traffic,
violating the requirement that cyclists be vehicular and predictable.

Probably the same people who get on Usenet and [censored] about the soccer
mom in her minivan with the cell phone, yet it's OK that they are
equally if not more distracted trying to drink like the pros without
stopping or slowing down.

Pull over, get off the bike and have a drink, then get back on and
pedal away. You ain't in the damn Tour de France, you're just an
uncoordinated [censored] with a Walter Mitty complex and a pile of
overpriced toys. Don't become a hood ornament while trying to suck
warm plastic-flavored water out of your bottle.

Peter Cole said:

"Patrick Lamb" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I remember reading
somewhere physical performance starts to degrade when the body loses
1% of its weight in water.

Probably at the Gatorade site.

Quoted message said:

IIRC, clinical dehydration hits at 5% or
more.

Medical defs: moderate = 10%

Quoted message said:

I can sweat half a gallon in an hour. It's hard to replace that much
quickly -- easier to start early, and continue. It only takes a
couple of minutes to put ice and water in a bottle.

That's way more than average maximum (~1 L/hr), but even at that rate it'd
take over a couple of hours to get moderately dehydrated.

But less than one hour to hit the 1% performance hit level.