Hydration question

Tom Kunich' cyclintom@yahoo. com said:

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Quoted message said:

I don't think that level of fitness is that big a factor. I think
often people with lower fitness get caught out on long rides like that
because the have fuel/hydration issues due to their lack of experience
and planning, which is a result of their not hvaing had the chance to
get to know their own responses to the types of stress from these
rides. If you get nauseous, something is wrong.

Nausea is a pretty clear indication that your body is putting more out than
it's taking in. And if you're eating and drinking and still getting nauseous
it can only mean that you're riding over your ability.

Or that you are eating or drinking too much for how much left over
capacity your body has to deal with digestion, etc. So it is sort of
the same thing. If you are going at it full tilt, you won't be able to
process much food, though you will need it that much more.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Riding through it is perhaps the best option, but I still think
getting nauseous is an indication of something wrong.

You cannot "ride through it" if it's caused by over-extending yourself.

But you can if it is from having excess water swill around in your
gut. Since time is really the only thing that will help, stopping
doesn't really accomplish anything. You feel lousy anyway. But I agree
you would probably need to ease off.

Joseph

Lou Holtman said:

Tom Kunich said:

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Quoted message said:

I agree, but I don't think size play as big a role as individual
variation. I too aim for about 20floz per hour in similar temps, yet
I'm 50-60lbs more (than you, not OP). I like having one bottle of
water and one of some sort of sports/electrolyte type drink. The water
to wash food down and rinse the palette, the sports drink for calories
and salts.

Quoted message said:

A guy told me that you can train yourself to ride with minimal fluids
and food intake. I tried it and it's true. I can do 50 miles on one
bottle of water and stopping for a coffee and donut. You do have to
remember that you require SOMETHING and you can't do it with nothing at
all.

When you glycogen supply in your muscles and liver are up to their max,
you can ride for up to 2-2.5 hours (medium effort) without eating at
all. I do it all the time after work for my 75-80 km rides. I only drink
  one bottle of something. When you are home you fuel up because the
your supply is empty.

Lou

Same here. I only bring more than water if the ride is going to be
more than 3 hours medium effort, and then it's something light like an
apple, or 1.5 hours if it is high intensity like a race, in which case
I opt for liquid calories. And on the medium effort rides, I sometimes
dispense with the water if it is not hot out.

Joseph

Tom Kunich' cyclintom@yahoo. com said:

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Quoted message said:

I agree, but I don't think size play as big a role as individual
variation. I too aim for about 20floz per hour in similar temps, yet
I'm 50-60lbs more (than you, not OP). I like having one bottle of
water and one of some sort of sports/electrolyte type drink. The water
to wash food down and rinse the palette, the sports drink for calories
and salts.

A guy told me that you can train yourself to ride with minimal fluids and
food intake. I tried it and it's true. I can do 50 miles on one bottle of
water and stopping for a coffee and donut. You do have to remember that you
require SOMETHING and you can't do it with nothing at all.

No doubt in my mind about being able to train for minimal intake. It
may however be 99% half mental.

Joseph

D'ohBoy said:

Quoted post said:

On Jun 16, 6:35 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 05:32:26 -0700 (PDT), "D'ohBoy"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote:
>So I was doing about 12 oz per hour.
(snips)
>, 200 lbs).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That's not a lot of liquid in warm weather considering your size. For
me, at moderate intensity in moderately warm weather I try for a
minimum of 20oz per hour and I'm 40 lbs less.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think you could drink more liquid and keep the liquid down if it had
salt in it.

Quoted message said:

It doesn't sound like a liquid problem to me. It sounds more like he
was exhausted, as Tom suggested. After several hours of riding, even
with proper hydration and nutrition, the body starts getting very
tired. If you are not very fit and used to this sort of rides getting
sick after several hours on the saddle is not uncommon. Pushing the
body to the limit of an effort can make you sick and nauseated.

Quoted message said:

For some reason, it seems that when I get a little nauseated, the best
thing to do is to ride through it. Stopping and letting my heart rate
drop too much will make me feel worse. When I am ridding uphills with
groups, I always get dropped, since I am a little chunky. In the
effort to keep up, I always ride to the point where i sart to get
sick. If I slow down too much, I will start dry heaving. I need to
force myself not too lower my effort too much.

I do ~150 miles per week in similarly hilly terrain to the ride in
question and not JRA. I have ridden a number of rides (3-4)
approaching this difficulty already this year and believe that I was
sufficiently prepared. I have 1400 road miles prior to the ride and
4x/week 1 - 2 hour trainer sessions complete with intervals and heart
rate monitoring to insure the training value in the Jan - March time
period.

Interesting with the 'push thru it' strategem. I don't think that
would have been possible in this case.

D'ohBoy

It sounds like you are probably in pretty good shape. However, in my
experience nausea is a common problem of very hard efforts, either
sustained efforts or sprints. It is likely that you were pushing your
body to a pretty intense level of effort and that is what made you
sick. That sounds more likely than too much water.

I agree that there is a point of no return when you will start heaving
even if you try to push through. There was a time in my life when I
would do sprint training. I would feel like puking after every sprint.
After a few weeks of doing this sort of training, I wouldn't get the
nausea effect any more. However, its been ages since I tried to do
sprint training. I can sustain pretty intense aerobic efforts,
however, if I have to chase a group out of a corner or on a hill for a
long time, I will get nauseated. I know when to back off now. It is
better to back off before the point of no return. Even if I get
dropped, it is never as bad as if I cross the barrier. Every year, I
promise myself to do some sprint training so that I won't have to go
through the nausea experience. I have, so far broken that promise 15
times in a row. I usually build my aerobic capacity so that I can
tolerate most efforts at aerobic threshold w/o getting dropped and I
accept getting dropped on sprints or hills.

Tom Kunich' cyclintom@yahoo. com said:

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Quoted message said:

I agree, but I don't think size play as big a role as individual
variation. I too aim for about 20floz per hour in similar temps, yet
I'm 50-60lbs more (than you, not OP). I like having one bottle of
water and one of some sort of sports/electrolyte type drink. The water
to wash food down and rinse the palette, the sports drink for calories
and salts.

A guy told me that you can train yourself to ride with minimal fluids and
food intake. I tried it and it's true. I can do 50 miles on one bottle of
water and stopping for a coffee and donut. You do have to remember that you
require SOMETHING and you can't do it with nothing at all.

Its not that hard to do this on cool weather. However, once it gets
too warm, it can get very tough. On a cool day, your fat and glycogen
stores and a little fluid can get you through the first half of the
ride. The coffee, doughnut and the rest of the fluid will get you
through the second half. If you are doing this with a fast group and
don't take any pulls, it is even easier.

D'ohBoy said:

Hi!

On a 200k challenge ride (12,000 vert) yesterday and started to feel
weak and bad. Bonky, perhaps? No. Eating fairly well...prolly about
a couple hundred calories every hour and a half or so... hydrating
well, or so I thought.

I used to have similar problems to what you describe on much shorter
rides (~80 miles) than that, and the way I solved it was by making
sure to eat about 200-250 calories (e.g. various bars, dates,
sandwiches, whatever) for every 10 miles of riding, not counting
lunch. I don't usually do rides with much less than 60 vertical feet
per mile, but I'd probably bring less food on a flatter ride. I weigh
about 190 with my bike, so this works out to about .13 calories per
pound-mile. You are probably 230 with your bike, and you mentioned
you were eating a couple hundred calories (I'll say 300) every hour
and a half, or 20 miles at your pace. This is more like .065 calories
per pound mile, for similar terrain.

My point being that I eat twice as much as you do while riding
(adjusted for weight), and when I get home from riding, I am still
hungry enough to eat about 2x as much as I would eat on a day that I
don't ride.

I think you aren't eating enough.

-Mark

D'ohBoy said:

On a 200k challenge ride (12,000 vert) yesterday and started to feel
weak and bad. Bonky, perhaps? No. Eating fairly well...prolly about
a couple hundred calories every hour and a half or so... hydrating
well, or so I thought.

....

Quoted message said:

I don't think I was over-hydrating. I was drinking approximately a 28
oz bottle (one of those big ones) every 25 miles. As far as I know,
and as my riding buddy says, I am *ALWAYS* under-hydrated. It was
sunny and warm, around 80F, but not humid. Just can't figure out
what happened.

I think this is one of those things where you need to treat yourself
as an experiment of one. Try eating salt, and see if that helps; if
not, try drinking water; then eat more PBJ, fig newtons, bananas,
oranges... Something might help.

Over on this experiment of one, I weighed myself before and after a
two hour ride. Drank right about 48 oz, lost 3 pounds, implying that
I need to drink a quart an hour (about as much as my stomach can
process). Thank goodness it was a relatively cool day, only about 80
F. I've weighed myself losing twice as much when it's hot.

Pat

Email address works as is.

Quoted message said:

D'ohBoy said:

Hi!

Quoted message said:

On a 200k challenge ride (12,000 vert) yesterday and started to feel
weak and bad.  Bonky, perhaps?  No.  Eating fairly well...prolly about
a couple hundred calories every hour and a half or so... hydrating
well, or so I thought.

I used to have similar problems to what you describe on much shorter
rides (~80 miles) than that, and the way I solved it was by making
sure to eat about 200-250 calories (e.g. various bars, dates,
sandwiches, whatever) for every 10 miles of riding, not counting
lunch.  I don't usually do rides with much less than 60 vertical feet
per mile, but I'd probably bring less food on a flatter ride.  I weigh
about 190 with my bike, so this works out to about .13 calories per
pound-mile.  You are probably 230 with your bike, and you mentioned
you were eating a couple hundred calories (I'll say 300) every hour
and a half, or 20 miles at your pace.  This is more like .065 calories
per pound mile, for similar terrain.

My point being that I eat twice as much as you do while riding
(adjusted for weight), and when I get home from riding, I am still
hungry enough to eat about 2x as much as I would eat on a day that I
don't ride.

I think you aren't eating enough.

-Mark

I think you were eating more than you could process, but the ride was
not long enough for this to come back to haunt you.

Here is some interesting info:

http://tinyurl.com/3zjke2

This one is good too:

http://tinyurl.com/3qb38p

One of the reasons people have problems on long rides is they use
their experiences on shorter rides to help them decide what to do in
terms of fuel/hydration, and it is not always applicable.

The short version is that somebody cannot absorb more than 200-300
calories per hour through their gut while exercising at any reasonable
intensity level. The number will depend on a number of factors,
including rider size, but very often people consume way more than
that. On a short ride that won't make a difference, as there isn't
time for the system to get backed up, but on a long ride there is, and
then you are in for some unpleasantness.

The first link above touches on salt in the diet which relates to a
pet theory of mine. Sometimes on rides I see folks whose clothes are
crusted white with salt. These are often the same people who suffer
cramps, and talk about the importance of salt intake. The body doesn't
get rid of necessary things, so all this extra salt on the clothes
makes me think they have too much salt, as opposed to not enough. I
think their daily diet has way too much salt and this is in their
bodies from the start, screwing up their osmality. So the first step
in reducing cramps and fluid absorption problems is to have (perhaps
lots) less salt on a daily basis, not to up the salt during the event.

Fuel during a ride comes from glycogen stores in the muscles and
liver, fat, and from calories consumed while riding. Each one has
limiting factors, and finding the balance between them is the key.

Joseph

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

D'ohBoy said:

So I was doing about 12 oz per hour.

(snips)

Quoted message said:

, 200 lbs).

That's not a lot of liquid in warm weather considering your size. For
me, at moderate intensity in moderately warm weather I try for a
minimum of 20oz per hour and I'm 40 lbs less.

I think you could drink more liquid and keep the liquid down if it had
salt in it.

I agree that this might well have been a salt thing. Other than an
occasional (very) V-8, I don't find salt in drinks very appealing. I
used to seek out salty foods, but found it was hard to get salt w/o
grease, and there's just so many pretzels a man can eat. My solution was
to empty out some nasty herbal capsules and refill with a 2/3 salt, 1/3
bicarb mix and pop those on long (brevet) hot rides when I felt my
thirst going away or fluids started making me nauseas.

Tom Kunich said:

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Quoted message said:

I agree, but I don't think size play as big a role as individual
variation. I too aim for about 20floz per hour in similar temps, yet
I'm 50-60lbs more (than you, not OP). I like having one bottle of
water and one of some sort of sports/electrolyte type drink. The water
to wash food down and rinse the palette, the sports drink for calories
and salts.

A guy told me that you can train yourself to ride with minimal fluids
and food intake. I tried it and it's true. I can do 50 miles on one
bottle of water and stopping for a coffee and donut. You do have to
remember that you require SOMETHING and you can't do it with nothing at
all.

I rode a 200k brevet (~200 mi) without eating -- not intentionally, my
stomach just went south. I never carry fluids for typical 2 hr/30-40 mi
club "fitness" rides, nor MTB rides of the same duration. I get a lot of
reactions to the effect of assuming I must have lost/forgot my
bottle(s), and many well intentioned offers to share. I guess I just
like the feeling of being slightly dehydrated. People these days seem to
think it's life threatening.

On long rides (brevets), particularly in the heat, I do try to keep up
with fluids. Despite that effort, I usually lose around 10 lb over the
event. I prefer to drink at stops, every hour or two than continuously
on the bike. I haven't consumed "sports drinks" in a decade or so, they
just make me gag. I only carry water on the bike, bad enough being
covered in dried salt & snot without adding a sticky sugar glaze.

Peter Cole said:

Tom Kunich said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I agree, but I don't think size play as big a role as individual
variation. I too aim for about 20floz per hour in similar temps, yet
I'm 50-60lbs more (than you, not OP). I like having one bottle of
water and one of some sort of sports/electrolyte type drink. The water
to wash food down and rinse the palette, the sports drink for calories
and salts.

Quoted message said:

A guy told me that you can train yourself to ride with minimal fluids
and food intake. I tried it and it's true. I can do 50 miles on one
bottle of water and stopping for a coffee and donut. You do have to
remember that you require SOMETHING and you can't do it with nothing at
all.

I rode a 200k brevet (~200 mi) without eating -- not intentionally, my
stomach just went south. I never carry fluids for typical 2 hr/30-40 mi
club "fitness" rides, nor MTB rides of the same duration. I get a lot of
reactions to the effect of assuming I must have lost/forgot my
bottle(s), and many well intentioned offers to share. I guess I just
like the feeling of being slightly dehydrated. People these days seem to
think it's life threatening.

On long rides (brevets), particularly in the heat, I do try to keep up
with fluids. Despite that effort, I usually lose around 10 lb over the
event. I prefer to drink at stops, every hour or two than continuously
on the bike. I haven't consumed "sports drinks" in a decade or so, they
just make me gag. I only carry water on the bike, bad enough being
covered in dried salt & snot without adding a sticky sugar glaze.

As I say before, it is not difficult to ride two hours without water
on a cool day. I often run with no water for 1 1/2 hour in the
mountains and do fine in cooler days. However, the problem is riding
in hot days or humid days when you are sweating a lot. Last Sunday we
did a a four hour ride. It was around 80 when we started and over 100
when we finished. We finished on a four mile hill climb under the
dessert sun. I was carrying three full 24 ounce bottles and some were
carrying five. We stopped to refuel twice. I drank two whole bottles
during the climb alone and was still peeing yellow when I got home.

The same goes for refueling. You can ride on glycogen and fat stores
for a couple of hours fine if you stay aerobic with only a few
anaerobic or AT efforts. However, if you are riding for a lot more
more than two hours and the ride includes several AT efforts and
anaerobic efforts, you will bonk without refueling.

Granted that some may be in better shape and will stay aerobic while
others are going anaerobic. So, people in better shape will need less
fuel and water for the same ride than people in not so good shape.

Ultimately, the personal stories provide for good anecdotes, but don't
necessarily contribute to the knowledge base if we don't know the
efforts put out by the participants.

Ideally, if a person will ride for several hours hard (perceived
exertion) They should be drinking a bottle of water per hour and
consuming a minimum of 25-30 carbs per hour. The stories of those that
ride 5 hours on one water bottle with no fuel are fine. However, they
don't contribute anything if we dont' know what effort your body did
to accomplish the task. If it is hot and you are raising your heart
rate above 70% you won't survive for more than two.

email hidden said:

As I say before, it is not difficult to ride two hours without water
on a cool day. I often run with no water for 1 1/2 hour in the
mountains and do fine in cooler days. However, the problem is riding
in hot days or humid days when you are sweating a lot.

Yeah. The other thing is, even if you generally ride cool temp rides
that are not too long, if you are thinking of doing longer, hotter
rides its important to get yourself used to drinking more. If you
care about improving performance (which might not be the case for
everyone) or even comfort on long hot rides, you've got to be able to
drink a lot. Practice can help.

Ditto for getting calories into the body. Practice on your typical
rides and you'll be better prepared for longer/hotter rides.

D'ohBoy said:

My bottles have been cleaned with bleach recently.

Bleach? You are a brave man. I simply use hot water and
scrub them. Altho I recently bought a 3 liter CamelBak
after I got badly dehydrated in 100F weather in Austin.
Do not want to repeat that experience and 3 liters should
cover 3 hours even in mid-day heat and I rarely ride more
than that (unless on organized rides). I was using Hammer
Heed mix but now I switched to Nuun - all that sugar in
Heed was giving me bloated stomach and Nuun tastes way
better than Heed.
Anyways - any possibility that you poisoned yourself
with bleach?

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Woland99 said:

D'ohBoy said:

My bottles have been cleaned with bleach recently.

Bleach? You are a brave man. I simply use hot water and
scrub them. Altho I recently bought a 3 liter CamelBak
after I got badly dehydrated in 100F weather in Austin.
Do not want to repeat that experience and 3 liters should
cover 3 hours even in mid-day heat and I rarely ride more
than that (unless on organized rides). I was using Hammer
Heed mix but now I switched to Nuun - all that sugar in
Heed was giving me bloated stomach and Nuun tastes way
better than Heed.
Anyways - any possibility that you poisoned yourself
with bleach?

No, unless he chugged it straight out of the bottle.
The stuff salts out, leaving no toxic substances behind.
It is ClO buffered in brine. Starts degrading as soon
as it is diluted and turns into brine.

--
Michael Press

Quoted message said:

As I say before, it is not difficult to ride two hours without water
on a cool day. I often run with no water for 1 1/2 hour in the
mountains and do fine in cooler days. However, the problem is riding
in hot days or humid days when you are sweating a lot.

I don't know, I think there's a lot of individual variation. I also
think (as Tom said) that you can acclimate somewhat.

Quoted message said:

The same goes for refueling. You can ride on glycogen and fat stores
for a couple of hours fine if you stay aerobic with only a few
anaerobic or AT efforts. However, if you are riding for a lot more
more than two hours and the ride includes several AT efforts and
anaerobic efforts, you will bonk without refueling.

Quoted message said:

Ideally, if a person will ride for several hours hard (perceived
exertion) They should be drinking a bottle of water per hour and
consuming a minimum of 25-30 carbs per hour. The stories of those that
ride 5 hours on one water bottle with no fuel are fine. However, they
don't contribute anything if we dont' know what effort your body did
to accomplish the task. If it is hot and you are raising your heart
rate above 70% you won't survive for more than two.

I have no idea about AT & all that -- I've never been measured. I do
know that I was able to ride a 42 mi rolling course (pace line) in under
2 hr on a sultry summer evening without fluids. I also know that I was
able to finish a 300k (200 mi) hilly brevet at a modest pace (~15) hr
without eating. Whether that "contributes anything", I don't know.

"Michael Press" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]>,

Woland99 said:

Anyways - any possibility that you poisoned yourself
with bleach?

No, unless he chugged it straight out of the bottle.
The stuff salts out, leaving no toxic substances behind.
It is ClO buffered in brine. Starts degrading as soon
as it is diluted and turns into brine.

NOTE: BE SURE THAT THE BLEACH IS JUST BLEACH. NO SOAP OR SCENTS.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Kunich' cyclintom@yahoo. com said:

"Michael Press" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]>,

Woland99 said:

Anyways - any possibility that you poisoned yourself
with bleach?

No, unless he chugged it straight out of the bottle.
The stuff salts out, leaving no toxic substances behind.
It is ClO buffered in brine. Starts degrading as soon
as it is diluted and turns into brine.

NOTE: BE SURE THAT THE BLEACH IS JUST BLEACH. NO SOAP OR SCENTS.

Yes, thanks. I should know better.

--
Michael Press

Peter Cole said:

Quoted message said:

As I say before, it is not difficult to ride two hours without water
on a cool day. I often run with no water for 1 1/2 hour in the
mountains and do fine in cooler days. However, the problem is riding
in hot days or humid days when you are sweating a lot.

I don't know, I think there's a lot of individual variation. I also
think (as Tom said) that you can acclimate somewhat.

Quoted message said:

The same goes for refueling. You can ride on glycogen and fat stores
for a couple of hours fine if you stay aerobic with only a few
anaerobic or AT efforts. However, if you are riding for a lot more
more than two hours and the ride includes several AT efforts and
anaerobic efforts, you will bonk without refueling.

Quoted message said:

Ideally, if a person will ride for several hours hard (perceived
exertion) They should be drinking a bottle of water per hour and
consuming a minimum of 25-30 carbs per hour. The stories of those that
ride 5 hours on one water bottle with no fuel are fine. However, they
don't contribute anything if we dont' know what effort your body did
to accomplish the task. If it is hot and you are raising your heart
rate above 70% you won't survive for more than two.

I have no idea about AT & all that -- I've never been measured. I do
know that I was able to ride a 42 mi rolling course (pace line) in under
2 hr on a sultry summer evening without fluids. I also know that I was
able to finish a 300k (200 mi) hilly brevet at a modest pace (~15) hr
without eating. Whether that "contributes anything", I don't know.

you are clearly in good condition. Regarding the AT stuff, that means
how often, during the rides that you mention, did you heart beat so
fast that it felt that it was going to explode, how many times did you
feel nauseated, how many times did you feel that your legs felt like
rubber?

Whenever you get close to any of these points, your body is not able
to get energy from fat. So, it must metabolize it from glycogen. If
you get to these points too many times, if you are not getting in some
carbs you will bonk. Also, if you are ridding at intensities that make
you feel like barfing or close to barfing, you are also raising your
body temperature considerably. If so, you need to get fluids and salt
so that you won't dehydrate.

Regarding the two rides that you describe, the two hour paceline at
over 20 miles per hour could be an aerobic cruise for some or an
anaerobic nightmare for others. So, the question is did you feel like
your heart was coming of your chest every time you crested a hill and
started to sweat a lot? If you did, then you could start bonking and
cramping after an hour. If you were able to chat throughout the ride
except when you took a turn up the front, then it is not hard to do it
without putting anything in your mouth.

Regarding your long distance excursion, You probably kept an aerobic
pace that allowed you to burn fat throughout the ride. So again, the
two examples indicate that it is possible to do these things without
eating or drinking the often recommended amounts. However, the
important trick is not to know the distance, but the effort to
accomplish the task. Many of us can ride fast for two hours without
eating or drinking anything. It is not because we have taught our
bodies to ride hard without fuel. It is because we have trained out
bodies to a level where we are not working that hard so we need less
fuel.

Andres

Michael Press said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Kunich' cyclintom@yahoo. com said:

"Michael Press" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]>,
Woland99 <[email hidden]> wrote:
> Anyways - any possibility that you poisoned yourself
> with bleach?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No, unless he chugged it straight out of the bottle.
The stuff salts out, leaving no toxic substances behind.
It is ClO buffered in brine. Starts degrading as soon
as it is diluted and turns into brine.

Quoted message said:

NOTE: BE SURE THAT THE BLEACH IS JUST BLEACH. NO SOAP OR SCENTS.

Yes, thanks. I should know better.

--
Michael Press

Good suggestion. Luckily I am too cheap to get the good smelling
stuff.

Started doing this (and changed over to straight water) after a
suspicious gunky ring appeared near the top of my bottle. Get fuel/
nutrients from gu's, food and tabs now. No more sticky gunk on my
bike, less issues with gunky bots.

D'ohBoy

"D'ohBoy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Started doing this (and changed over to straight water) after a

Quoted message said:

suspicious gunky ring appeared near the top of my bottle. Get fuel/

Quoted message said:

nutrients from gu's, food and tabs now. No more sticky gunk on my

Quoted message said:

bike, less issues with gunky bots.

I do the same thing - Gu or some other jel for food while riding and
straight water. When you do this you rarely get nauseous.