Hybrid and MTB frames - possibly dumb question

Eugenio Mastroviti said:

Is there any size difference, in general, between hybrid and
MTB frames? I mean, would it be possible to mount 700
wheels on an MTB frame, or would I need to use one with
a different form factor?

In general a frame designed for 700c wheels will differ in its geometry
from one designed for 26" wheels, but the overall diameter of a 26" rim
with a 2" off-road tyre is quite close to that of a 700c rim with a narrow
racing tyre, and the substitution has been done. One of Cannondale's
black-on-black 'Bad Boy' models came with a pair of 26" wheels for off-road
use, and a pair of 700c for the road.

The major hurdle is providing braking. The Cannondale used disk brakes. Few
rim brakes have the necessary reach adjustment to cope with both wheel
diameters. Older forks tended to be about the right length to allow a
caliper brake to be used, but modern suspension-corrected forks would
require an impracticably long reach. I've seen adapters used to move the
effective position of the brake boss the necessary 3cm.

What is it that you're trying to achieve?

James Thomson

James Thomson said:

What is it that you're trying to achieve?

Basically, an ultra-light commuter's bike based on a carbon MTB frame. It
doesn't necessarily make sense, and it's something I won't have the budget
for until at least December, but I was wondering if it's feasible at all.

Eugenio

--
Christian, n.:
One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely inspired
book admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbor.

in message <[email hidden]>, Eugenio

Mastroviti (') said:

Is there any size difference, in general, between hybrid and MTB
frames? I mean, would it be possible to mount 700 wheels on an MTB
frame, or would I need to use one with a different form factor?

It's not generally possible to mount 700c wheels on a frame designed for
26inch unless you are using hub or disk brakes because the rims are
slightly different diameter and thus the brake mountings will be in the
wrong place.

However you can get narrow slick tyres for 26inch wheels.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; If God does not write LISP, God writes some code so similar to
;; LISP as to make no difference.

Eugenio Mastroviti said:

Basically, an ultra-light commuter's bike based on a carbon
MTB frame.

A Pace RC31 carbon fork might be an idea for the front end. They come with
a disk-mount, and optional clamp-on V-brake bosses that can be clamped
anywhere on the fork blade. Either way, that would take care of braking at
the front. A fixed gear at the back (with a White ENO hub if your frame has
vertical dropouts) would be ultra-light, and would deal with the rear brake
issue.

I'm inclined to think that 26" wheels would make more sense though. A side
effect of running narrow 26" slicks on a mountain bike is that the bottom
bracket height and steering trail are reduced, which tends to make sense
for road use. 700c wheels would have the opposite efect.

James Thomson

Eugenio Mastroviti said:

Basically, an ultra-light commuter's bike based on a carbon MTB frame. It
doesn't necessarily make sense, and it's something I won't have the budget
for until at least December, but I was wondering if it's feasible at all.

I'd stick with 26": you can get performance wheels built up in 26" and
pop something like Schwalbe Stelvios on and you'll have plenty of speed
potential. It's an old myth that you need 20mm 700c wheels to go fast.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

I'd stick with 26": you can get performance wheels built up in 26" and
pop something like Schwalbe Stelvios on and you'll have plenty of speed
potential. It's an old myth that you need 20mm 700c wheels to go fast.

Thanks everybody for the advice - this makes things a lot easier.

Since you guys are in such a helpful mood, do you know of any ways to
explain to my better half that this kind of purchase could be construed,
in some ways, as more important for my life and well-being than changing
the curtains in the living room, the kitchen table and the garden lights
for the THIRD time this year?

Well, short of getting down on my knees and begging for mercy, I mean.

Eugenio

Eugenio Mastroviti said:

Since you guys are in such a helpful mood, do you know of any ways to
explain to my better half that this kind of purchase could be construed,
in some ways, as more important for my life and well-being than changing
the curtains in the living room, the kitchen table and the garden lights
for the THIRD time this year?

I'd personally go for "it is a bicycle, QED"

But there again my better half has just spent a small fortune on a very
nice bike herself, so Understands These Things... YMMV! ;-)

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

in message <[email hidden]>, Eugenio

Mastroviti (') said:

Peter Clinch said:

I'd stick with 26": you can get performance wheels built up in 26"
and pop something like Schwalbe Stelvios on and you'll have plenty of
speed
potential. It's an old myth that you need 20mm 700c wheels to go
fast.

Thanks everybody for the advice - this makes things a lot easier.

Since you guys are in such a helpful mood, do you know of any ways to
explain to my better half that this kind of purchase could be
construed, in some ways, as more important for my life and well-being
than changing the curtains in the living room, the kitchen table and
the garden lights for the THIRD time this year?

What do you currently spend in a year - total - on commuting?

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; When your hammer is C++, everything begins to look like a thumb.

Simon Brooke said:

Quoted message said:

Since you guys are in such a helpful mood, do you know of any ways to
explain to my better half that this kind of purchase could be
construed, in some ways, as more important for my life and well-being
than changing the curtains in the living room, the kitchen table and
the garden lights for the THIRD time this year?

What do you currently spend in a year - total - on commuting?

Ay, there's the rub. Next to nothing - I already have a mountain bike,
which I'd like to use only for MTB stuff at weekends. So the issue is, I'd
like a SECOND bike, optimised for urban commuting... ehm...

Sigh, I can see where this is going. Off to Ikea...

Eugenio Mastroviti said:

Ay, there's the rub. Next to nothing - I already have a mountain bike,
which I'd like to use only for MTB stuff at weekends. So the issue is, I'd
like a SECOND bike, optimised for urban commuting... ehm...

Ah, then you want one of /these/...
http://kinetics.org.uk/html/853_commuter.shtml

Quoted message said:

Sigh, I can see where this is going. Off to Ikea...

No, off to the bank, to rob it (above is in the "if you need to ask how
much it is you can't afford it" bracket: the gearing alone would set you
back around a grand).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

No, off to the bank, to rob it (above is in the "if you need to ask how
much it is you can't afford it" bracket: the gearing alone would set you
back around a grand).

Sigh.

I think I'm in love.

Eugenio

Quoted message said:

Since you guys are in such a helpful mood, do you know of any ways to
explain to my better half that this kind of purchase could be construed,
in some ways, as more important for my life and well-being than changing
the curtains in the living room, the kitchen table and the garden lights
for the THIRD time this year?

Tell her that you are thinking of taking up a sport like sailing or
golf, both of which would cost more of her curtain money and also take
you away for longer periods of time.
Iain

iarocu [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Tell her that you are thinking of taking up a sport like sailing or
golf, both of which would cost more of her curtain money and also take
you away for longer periods of time.

I believe the concept of GSUs (Golf Subscription Units) has been
discussed as an appropriate way to justify expenditure. Seems as good a
route as any.

Jon

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch

Quoted message said:

But there again my better half has just spent a small fortune on a
very nice bike herself, so Understands These Things... YMMV! ;-)

Did SWAMBO spend her money, your money or our money? These things
rarely equate to reality :-(

--
A T (Sandy) Morton
on the Bicycle Island
In the Global Village
http://www.millport.net

In article <[email hidden]>,

Simon Brooke said:

What do you currently spend in a year - total - on commuting?

I must hang my head in shame and admit that I spend nothing on
commuting - it take me 20 seconds to walk from the house to the shop.

--
A T (Sandy) Morton
on the Bicycle Island
In the Global Village
http://www.millport.net

Sandy Morton said:

Did SWAMBO spend her money, your money or our money? These things
rarely equate to reality :-(

All her own money, so it's even better than reality! ;-)

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Sandy Morton said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch

Quoted message said:

But there again my better half has just spent a small fortune on a
very nice bike herself, so Understands These Things... YMMV! ;-)

Quoted message said:

Did SWAMBO spend her money, your money or our money? These things
rarely equate to reality :-(

What does the A stand for...?
And it was *my* money 🙂

Those sort of things are easy when you have only lived together for a
couple of months, you both earn more than you spend, and you move in with
someone who already has a house which means that I don't need my savings
anymore for a downpayment as planned.

Things get a lot more complicated if one of you is earning less or when
spending money on toys actually means not spending it on something else
and you get into discussions on shared plans and values.

Though in our case shared plans and values might very well involve
spending money on bikes rather than curtains 🙂

Roos

In article <[email hidden]>,

Roos Eisma said:

What does the A stand for...?

Always

--
A T (Sandy) Morton
on the Bicycle Island
In the Global Village
http://www.millport.net

Sandy Morton said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Simon Brooke said:

What do you currently spend in a year - total - on commuting?

I must hang my head in shame and admit that I spend nothing on
commuting - it take me 20 seconds to walk from the house to the shop.

When I worked for IBM Warwick, I lived just over the road from its front
entrance. It was a longer walk across the car park than it was down the
side street from the house to the entrance. The next flat was a quick
ride down the canal to IBM's back entrance.

Monetary terms - back when I was fitter and commuted regularly Harrogate
to Leeds on bike, it was quite affordable. The bike in question just
went through brake shoes on those long descents, and had a few tyre
changes in its time. It also ate cotter pins (it was old) and bar tape.
I finally thought it worthwhile spending £400 on a nice hybrid, and fell
ill before having too much chance to make use of it.

Back then the cycle ride was 45 minutes (I was a lot fitter - its about
60 or 70 if I do it now). I could go by train, and spend £4.70 on the
return ticket. A season ticket would give a 20% reduction. The journey
would still include a 5 mile cycle ride, and take just as long. Its a
lot more reliable now than it was back then. They tend to provide more
carriages, so its not such a squash, and the conductors are more
friendly towards cyclists.

Driving took half an hour, and used about £4.50 worth of fuel at a
really pessimistic estimation rounding my cost per mile up to 15p (a
handy multiple of 5p. Fuel can go up a bit before I start rounding to
20p). I service every 12 months, not completing 12000 miles in that
time, so those costs are static.

That unfortunately means that with my new job, I'm not going to see any
reduction in car servicing costs, apart from perhaps a lower chance of
things wearing out. Its nice and close though, 4 to 5 miles depending on
route (longer if I go a "scenic route"😉. As they provide lunch too,
that means huge reduction in living cost :-)

Modern bike parts last so well, that even at higher cost, it averages
out over the distance quite well. I've only had to replace a rear
cassette and chain once, and that was on a second hand bike so who knows
what wear it had had before. Brake shoes for V brake are about a fiver.
They seem to wear out reasonably quickly, maybe 1000 miles on the hills
round here.

I'm told that disk brake pads last longer. Mine are wearing down at
about 900 miles, but still seem to have plenty of life (and adjustment)
left. The tandem's drum brake has barely needed attention.
I've had to replace a tyre that came with my hybrid at about 2500 miles
(give or take a few computer failures) but am finding that the better
branded tyres are lasting very well.

One of the bigger expenses has to be cycle clothing. Whatever you wear,
seems to wear out fairly quickly. Not good for a business suit, but even
lycra rubs away over time.

- Richard