Hunter Info

Only Rick Hunter can build a Hunter frame. You mean to say that you
want to build a Hunter copy or look-alike. 😄

I believe that, yes, they are hollow. Otherwise the frame
would weigh a ton. However, how can you make a copy without
having one to copy?

--
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For unicycles with handles, the future design of frames will
probably be based on a triangle (instead of a line). This
concept started with the Hunter and Telford frames, but does
not address the stress problems and extra weight we keep
adding up in the seat/seatpost area.

The three points of the triangle frame design would be the
wheel axle, the seat tube, and the area where the seat
handle would be. This was an idea that popped into my head
yesterday (January 12, 2004), and I think may be the
direction for high-end frames in the future. I think this
will especially be true for high-end road unis, like
custom Cokers.

Of course you can copy a Hunter frame without having one in
front of you. It will just be a less accurate copy. But if
the person asking doesn't even know if frame tubes are
hollow or solid, they have a lot else to learn before making
their final frame.

--
johnfoss - IUF Director

John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
"jfoss" at "unicycling.com"
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"I went to the Liberace Museum and the Elvis-A-Rama Museum on the same
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Wow!

I can't wait for my JF24! Will they be powdercoated?

--
Sofa - You Tu Tu Tuni?

'Unicycle Product Reviews'
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version 3.0

'when I'm at the limit of my endurance, 5% extra resistance could be
enough to stop me in my track. ' - MikeFule

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Sofa said:

*Wow!

I can't wait for my JF24! Will they be powdercoated? *

I'll get to work on those as soon as I finish updating my
web site... 🙄

--
johnfoss - IUF Director

John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
"jfoss" at "unicycling.com"
www.unicycling.com

"I went to the Liberace Museum and the Elvis-A-Rama Museum on the same
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unicycle_x said:

*To anyone who can help me:

Are all the bars on a hunter unicycle frame hollow? I'm
trying to build a hunter frame and I need to know tube
diameters and thicknesses.

Budd White *

And is there any specific reason you haven't called Rick? Go
to the link below and be done. He's really nice, and when I
asked he even offered to send me some bearing bearing
housings. I don't reccomend trying, though, you better be a
damn good welder, I know he brazes his stuff. But seriously,
just drop him a line. 'Look no more'
(huntercycles.compricelist.htmlOpen ↗)

--
gerblefranklin

I don't break equipment, I make it cheaper.
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Hunter uses regular bicycle tubing for the unicycle frame.
The tubing for the legs on the unicycle are the same as used
for the seat stay on the Hunter bikes. The tubes are hollow.

You might be able to get the tubing from a local bicycle
frame builder.

--
john_childs - Guinness Mojo

john_childs (at) hotmail (dot) com
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gerblefranklin said:

*

And is there any specific reason you haven't called Rick?
Go to the link below and be done. He's really nice, and
when I asked he even offered to send me some bearing
bearing housings. I don't reccomend trying, though, you
better be a damn good welder, I know he brazes his stuff.
But seriously, just drop him a line. 'Look no more'
(huntercycles.compricelist.htmlOpen ↗) *

So Rick mailed you bearing housings for your unicycle?

It's not that i dont know alot about the hunter unicyle. I
have only saw pictures of it but I have made scale drawings
of it. I don't have a hunter frame to look off of because
they are so dam expensive.

I'm going to use Cr-Mo tubing to build this uni. The welding
is no problem because my father is an awsome welder. I just
need to worry about bending the fork tubes perfectly.

It's not that i'm copying the Hunter frame, I'm goint to try
to improve it also.

If you have any suggestions, please reply

Budd White

--
unicycle_x - -MUni Militia-

-One Life, One Wheel, One Dream-
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unicycle_x said:

*It's not that i'm copying the Hunter frame, I'm goint to
try to improve it also.*

There's nothing wrong with copying like that, Budd. It's
the way people learn a new skill. Writers, painters,
actors, and frame builders do it. The first unicycle I
built was essentially a copy of one I bought from
unicycle.com. I've improved a lot since then, but it was a
really good way to start.

When you talk of "improving" the Hunter, you should consider
carefully what you are trying to improve and how you will
demonstrate clearly that you have improved it. To do this,
you have to be able to demonstrate the inadequacy of the
original frame for certain tasks (what you are trying to
fix). Simply adding tubing or changing an angle changes the
frame, but doesn't necessarily improve it.

Making a copy of a frame, then demonstrating side-by-side
that they are identical, would be a huge, fantastic first
step for an apprentice frame builder.

These comments are valid for any aspect of unicycle
construction, or even engineering in general.

--
U-Turn - There has got to be a better way...

Weep in the dojo... laugh on the battlefield.

'Strongest Coker Wheel in the World'
(unicyclist.comalbup39Open ↗)

'Unatics Website' (newyorkunicycle.comnewyorkunicycle.comOpen ↗)

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To improve the frame I plan on welding a cross bar between
the two forks, at the point where the brake attachments are
located. I hope that this will prevent the frame from bowing
when the brakes are applied hard. If I don't end up putting
brakes on my first replica, it will just be a straight
replica with no cross bars.

Budd White

--
unicycle_x - -MUni Militia-

-One Life, One Wheel, One Dream-
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unicycle_x said:

*To improve the frame I plan on welding a cross bar
between the two forks, at the point where the brake
attachments are located. I hope that this will prevent the
frame from bowing when the brakes are applied hard. If I
don't end up putting brakes on my first replica, it will
just be a straight replica with no cross bars.

Budd White *

How do you know that the frame bows? To what extent does it
bow with what kind of brake pressure? What range of brake
pressures are relevant to the riding you are thinking of?
What amount of bowing is acceptable? How much do you expect
a crossbar to improve the amount of bowing? How much does
the crossbar actually improve the amount of bowing?

These are the kinds of questions, the answers to which will
put strong oooomph behind any claims that your new design
is better.

Otherwise, you have only increased the complexity of the
frame, making it harder to manufacture, and heavier as well.

--
U-Turn - There has got to be a better way...

Weep in the dojo... laugh on the battlefield.

'Strongest Coker Wheel in the World'
(unicyclist.comalbup39Open ↗)

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That's true, but how will I know if I don't try?

A 5' doble bar arc's 0.22 inches after 50 pounds is applied.
Over time the frame can bow.

Budd White

--
unicycle_x - -MUni Militia-

-Rider of the One Wheel-
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I'm not trying to discourage you, Budd. Go for it. I'm
really interested to hear about your progress!

--
U-Turn - There has got to be a better way...

Weep in the dojo... laugh on the battlefield.

'Strongest Coker Wheel in the World'
(unicyclist.comalbup39Open ↗)

'Unatics Website' (newyorkunicycle.comnewyorkunicycle.comOpen ↗)

-- Dave Stockton
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Instead of copying an existing design, why not use it as a
base for something different? The Telford, for example, is
an elegant and great-looking frame, doing the same job.

To try something new, address the handle area in front of
the seat. Instead of supporting the handle from the front of
the seat (putting stress on the seat base), or from the seat
post (stressing that area), it might be possible to end up
with an overall lighter unicycle if the handle is considered
as a part of the frame.

The main questions is, I guess, how to make the handle
adjustable like a seat. How's that for a starting point?

--
johnfoss - IUF Director

John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
"jfoss" at "unicycling.com"
www.unicycling.com

"I went to the Liberace Museum and the Elvis-A-Rama Museum on the same
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unicycle_x said:

*That's true, but how will I know if I don't try?

A 5' doble bar arc's 0.22 inches after 50 pounds is
applied. Over time the frame can bow.

Budd White *

--
Frank A. - off-road

"Man's maturity: to have regained the seriousness that he had as a child
at play." - FRIEDRICH NIETZSCHE, Beyond Good and Evil

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(Sorry, hit the enter by mistake :eek: )

unicycle_x said:

*That's true, but how will I know if I don't try?

A 5' doble bar arc's 0.22 inches after 50 pounds is
applied. Over time the frame can bow.

Budd White *

On that same line of thought, If you've never actually
seen a Hunter frame, let alone ridden one, why do you
assume it needs improvement? I've got two Hunters and a
third on the way. They are great frames and as far as
bowing at the brake bosses, my MUni's set up with Maguras
are capable of stopping the wheel with way more power than
I will ever use or need.

(I believe the Vortex frame has a connection at the brake
boss location from the front leg to the back leg.)

Some have posted here in the past about the Hunter frames
and how they don't make sense from an engineering
standpoint. But in actual use, riding, which is really what
matters, it is a great handling and extremely durable frame.
It seems that "improvements" may not be the right word,
maybe just something "different". I also happen to love the
looks of it.

Have fun with the project and please don't misinterpet my
post. It is not an attack, just a take from one who has
logged many miles on Hunters.

- Frank:eek:

--
Frank A. - off-road

"Man's maturity: to have regained the seriousness that he had as a child
at play." - FRIEDRICH NIETZSCHE, Beyond Good and Evil

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Frank A. said:

* I've got two Hunters and a third on the way. They are
great frames and as far as bowing at the brake bosses,
my MUni's set up with Maguras are capable of stopping
the wheel with way more power than I will ever use or
need. *

I suppose I should weigh in here as I'm having Rick build
me a frame with a link between the fork blades at the
brake boss.

Why did I request this? Braking power was never a
consideration, nor was strength of the frame a concern. When
the brakes are applied they push in on the rim which bows
out the frame, however the frame bow is very small compared
to the travel of the brake so it really has no effect on
braking force. All it does is cause the lever to feel a bit
spongey, which isn't all that bad in my experience because
it can make it easier to judge how much force you are
applying at the rim. And since the bowing is almost
certainly below the elastic limit the frame won't take a
permanent set. (At least, not from just braking. Hitting a
truck while braking might cause some permanent
deformations...)

The rim applies a traction force to the brake (and vice
versa) that also causes the fork to bow slightly, however
this is also negligable unless the brake sticks and unsticks
which could, theoretically, cause a vibration at low speeds.
I wasn't too worried about this either because the effect
can't really happen at any speed where I would want to use
the brake.

However, since the traction and inward forces are applied
off-axis with respect to the fork they also apply a twisting
force (a torque) to the fork. This is the effect that I was
worried about. "Worry" is really too strong a word here;
clearly people have brakes on Hunters that work, so perhaps
"curious" is a better word.

This twisting force causes a slight misalignment of the
shoe against the rim. A twist of even one or two degrees
dramatically changes the pattern of pressure between the
brake pad and the rim. If the brake shoes are perfectly
aligned with zero brake pressure, then when forces are
applied the shoes twist out of alignment, which
dramatically reduces the force, so the shoes spring back
into alignment, the forces build up again and the cycle
repeats. This is what causes the infamous "brake squeal" on
poorly aligned bicycles.

Savey bike mechanics "toe in" the brake shoes so that
applying the brake brings the shoes into perfect alignment
to maximize the braking effect and eliminate the squeal. On
some bikes I had to toe the brakes in as much as 5 to 7
degrees to get the bike to stop squealing.

Now, on my Hunter Coker will I ever apply the brakes hard
enough to make them squeal? Doubtful. However, I'm a belts
AND suspenders kind of guy. The fork stays are so long, and
the tubing so narrow that I figured there was a possibility
of squeal, and also figured that the brakes would be more
predictable if I did something to control the alignment of
the pads. (Note that a "brake booster" does exactly the
same thing - control twist - but from the other end of the
brake bosses.)

Was I REALLY worried about predictability and brake squeal?
No, not very much. This extra tube radically stiffens the
fork tube against torsion, and it's not that big a deal to
add, so I figured it would be cheap insurance.

Did I think it would be cool to have a unique Hunter?
Yeah, a bit.

Did I think it would help other Unicyclists to recognize my
oddball Coker if it ever got stolen? Definately!

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I have noticed that the Airfoil rim abrades in a ripply way,
which is consistent with the catch-release concept. I
noticed it with the Magura brake on my standard Coker frame
with one normal brake post.

Unlike normal road brakes, Magura brakes are specifically
designed to be used with zero toe-in and work fine that way.
However, to improve modulation for a unicycle, where a light
touch can bring much good, it's good to toe them in a little
and angle them some as well.

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Cyberbellum, what you say makes sense and I have no doubt
that Rick will make you a great frame that you will love. On
my Hunter36, I do toe the brakes in a little bit and don't
have a problem with squealing. In normal use, you never
crank hard on the brake, but every once and a while, like a
panic stop on a steep downhill, I sometimes use it hard. I
have noticed the ripply pattern that U-Turn mentioned on my
rim as it has seen LOTS of braking in its short life.
Doesn't seem to be a problem yet though.

Have fun with your new machine when he finishes it!

---Nathan

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U-Turn said:

*I have noticed that the Airfoil rim abrades in a ripply
way, which is consistent with the catch-release concept. *

Interesting.

Are the ripples aligned with the spokes or independent?
Spoke tension bows out the sides of the rim (either at the
spoke holes or between them, I can't recall) so the brakes
wear down the high spots giving a ripply pattern on most
wheels. Given the extreme tension of the spokes in your
ultimate wheel the rim may be deforming in an unusual way.

If it really was catching and releasing you would notice a
squeal or chatter as you braked. Does this occur?

The Maguras use magnets to hold the brake pads in place.
This isn't a solid mount, so perhaps the shoes are squirming
around a bit as the brakes are applied.

--
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